BS: What do you say when they're dying?

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: gnu
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 08:51 PM

Something JUST struck me. Several conversations ago, Reggie said he had lost a lot of weight but that he did it for his own well being in order to get through chemo. I have another friend who is on his way out and he is doing the same thing but he said it was because he wanted his last days when he gets "really sick" to be less. He figures if he loses weight, he will die faster when things get really bad, thus lessening his pain and the pain his family and friends will have to go through.

Anybody ever experience this? His family and friends keep asking him if he is sick because he has lost a lot of weight and doesn't "look good" but he doesn't tell any of them shit... just me and one other buddy. Again, it's hard to know what to say.

I suppose it's all been said on this thread before. Just pisses me off that I can't do better.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: gnu
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 04:28 PM

No worries, VTam... never.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: alison
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 09:24 AM

so sorry for your loss Gnu.

and thank you for all of the wise advice in this thread, and the stories.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 04:40 PM

Gnu

I didn't mean to take anything away from how this death is hurting you. I have always been rubbish at offering words of wisdom or comfort. I think you know that I understand first hand that memories are no substitute for the real live person. Sorry if I offended. It was not my intention.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 11:50 PM

I know, Gary.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 10:12 PM

Hugs Ebbie.

Ebbie... "Your presence alone says much." Yes, even tho he didn't want me to visit, I am sure the phone calls meant a lot to him. I know that even more now after talking to his widow at the funeral.

BTW... I have always celebrated my times with Reg, even after his death. I do not focus on the loss. But it still sucks. Allow me that.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 03:44 PM

A thought that keeps recurring to me: it may be difficult to know what to say - and some people stay away because of that difficulty - when someone you love has received the curtain call but the fact is that you yourself can get away from the subject, can go skiing or on a family outing or attend a party or a myriad other activities, but the person involved cannot ever get away. S/he has thought about little else ever since the diagnosis and even before, so get thee hence. Your presence alone says much.

The last thing I said to my brother was on the phone when we knew that death was imminent and I had returned home so he could be alone with his family was: Happy Trails to you.

And he laughed and said, The same to you.

The next morning he went into a coma, and he died two days later.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 10:13 AM

I have few words for you. We all know that you are a good bloke you are, Gnu, and Reggie knew it too. The friendship you had was a gift. Sometime, hopefully soon, you will be able to focus on the gift and not the loss.

Hugs

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 08:27 AM

I gotta tell ya, Reggie woulda been proud of me. I have lost 100 pounds over the last two and a half years and I was able to wear my 30 year old three piece blue pin-stripe suit replete with red silk tri-corner pocket square and a poppy on the lapel. I didn't go in the service room but waited alongside while the line was going in in order to greet old friends. Doesn't sound like much but here is the kicker... I looked so damn good that people who didn't know me thought I was on staff! One lady in the line to get in the service room tried to take my programme!!! Hahahahaa. Reggie woulda laughed THAT laugh at that one... I hope he did.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 07:46 AM

My condolences, burl.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 05:20 AM

I had a similar experience. Last year a long-time friend of mine was very sick. I got a phone call from him in which I could barely recognise his voice. He described his symptoms and I realised he felt he was near to death. He said he just wanted a chat about old times, and we did that, but before I hung up I told him, 'I love you Jim'. He said, 'I love you too, it's been great' He made some recovery, and didn't die until last week. I couldn't make it to his funeral, but I'll never forget that conversation. I'm really glad that it took place. If you ever find yourself in a position like this, don't be shy of saying what you feel. Genuine friends are a blessing in life. Let them know.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: gnu
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 11:52 PM

Well there ya go eh? I am glad I did not ask that this thread be closed just because of the latest posts.

BTW... (BTW is a convenient intro in many situations)... when you get to the funeral parlour and there is a BIG lineup to sign the visitor's book, walk right past it and go to the stateroom rather than follow the crowd to the sign-in and then into the service room. I did and I spent ten wonderful minutes talking with Reg's wife... alone. We almost broke up together a few times but managed not to start crying with humour... I am sure Reg was proud of us both.

They had to bring in chairs and then keep the doors open for peeps standing in the hallway.

I know Reg isn't the only special person in the world. But he was to me and to many.

Thanks again for all the kind comments. To me, they mean that you trust me when I say Reg is a loss to all that knew him and moreso to those whot did not... that you also know/knew someone like Reg. Celebrate them and tell them that you do. Just as has been said on this thread many times by many people... by wise people.

Thanks for listening. Means a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 11:48 PM

What a moving thread.
Gnu -- and you others who have posted -- you done good. You are good people and even better friends,
and I hope I can be as good a friend as you all have been when someone I love becomes a "short-timer".

Respect.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 10:55 PM

I'm sorry, too, gnu. I'm glad you let him know you cared. Also, I am glad you started this thread and that I looked at it.

My friend with cancer died about 3 weeks ago, just a little more than two months after she was diagnosed. This thread affirmed that I was not alone in wondering what to say and do.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Janie
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 08:10 PM

gnu.....{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 07:12 PM

gnu: I only know what I didn't say when my friend was dying. Never seemed the right time, and now there's no time. You had the courage to say what you meant, he had the courage to listen, you both leave each other with no regrets. Wish i'd been you.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: gnu
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 06:48 PM

Thanks everyone.

Got my say prepared in my head. If I can stand up... or even stay at the funeral. I get emotional, but that's not news to anyone who knows me.

Our last words in the last telecon before we said goodbye were, "I love you, Reggie."... "I love you too, Gary."

Glad I did.

Been talkin on the net. Gonna be a bash after the reception. Peeps from NB, NS, PEI, NFLD, ONT, AB and BC... at least.

I was gonna ask that this thread be closed but it may help someone else in future so I'll just say...

RIP Reggie and thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: bfdk
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 11:28 AM

So sorry to hear about your loss, Gary.

Big hug,

Bente

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: KT
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 04:00 AM

What a treasure your friendship has been for both of you. I'm so sorry for your loss, Gnu.
KT

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 08:21 PM

Like I said a few months ago when this thread was started: make time to see your buddies...

My buddy, Joe, also a smoker (pipes and cigars) died of lung cancer... Other than family I was the only "old friend" to visit him toward the end... His widow has told me over and over how much that meant to him...

Make the time, Gn-ze...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 08:11 PM

My deepest condolences, gnu. I echo what Sinsull and others have said. You are/were a good friend who did right by Reggie and I wish we could have known him, too. Lots of {{{hugs}}} for you, too.

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 07:33 PM

I am glad that you had an amazing friend who enjoyed Screech (I buy it when I can find it) and with the good sense not to be pissed on by dogs.
Rest easy, Reggie.
I am genuinely sorry that our paths haven't crossed.
So sorry, Gary.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Neil D
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 07:09 PM

So very sorry for your loss Gnu, I am sure that he knew you cared. You did get to say the things you wanted to say, and be there for him up to the end. We just lost a friend that took the privilege of saying goodbye or anything else to him away from us. Guess it was just too painful for him to stay. We will keep you in our thoughts.

                              Christina D.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 06:44 PM

Sorry for your loss Gnu. It's been just about a year since I lost a good friend too. But it still feels fresh. Take care.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: gnu
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 05:52 PM

I tried to make him laugh during the last phone call. Reggie was always the first to laugh and his laugh was the most infectious laugh I have ever heard. I couldn't make him laugh. So I knew. He was a gem. A true gentleman.

A few years ago, he gave me mounted sets of moose and caribou antlers for my camp. I told him I was gonna sell my camp. He said that I might get another camp some day and he wanted me to have them as a reminder of him when he bit the dust... and he laughed big time. So, he knew then.

He will have one last BBQ and he requested that his ashes be placed in the top row of the vault rather than out in the grounds... so the dogs cannot piss on him.

I love you Reggie. When I come to visit you in heaven I'll bring a bottle of Screech. WHAT am I sayin? Surely they have Screech in heaven... if only just for Reggie. And I'll bet God is LHAO right now. And the girls are after Reggie... tall, handsome, curly dirty red hair... the girls were always after Reggie. Now I am babbling.

Goodbye Reg. RIP buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 03:43 AM

Make a point of spending time with them, go over the old times, get him laughing. If he wants to talk about the illness, let him, if he does, reassure him that you will be there for his family. Knowing someone will be there for them means a lot.

Treatment for cancer is painful, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Sometimes you ask yourself if it is worth it. Treatment, you live two to three years with virtually no quality of life for two of them, four sessions of Chemo, one run of Radio, possibly a second blast of Chemo a year later if the tumour shows increase in size. Opposed to no treatment, 12 to 14 months, nine of them good. Okay everyone differs, sorry for drifting.

Anyway, try to lift your friends spirits by talking about old times and as I said, let him know you will be there for his family.

Remember, understanding helps, sympathy only reinforces.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: GUEST,ChanteyLass
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 11:42 PM

Go ahead. Scream. I'm listening, and i'm sure others are, too.

I have two friends who are constant smokers. Finish one cigarette, light another. One at about 68 was just diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer. Went from being "normal" one minute to having a seizure. Diagnoses: brain tumor, lung cancer, breast cancer, rib tumors. Another at 83 has never had any signs of cancer. People who have never smoked have died of lung cancer.

When someone you care about is suffering or dying, it is time to scream.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: gnu
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 09:17 PM

He picked up the phone today. We chatted but I could tell he didn't wanna talk. He's got another week with the second round of chemo but he doesn't have much hope. When the conversation became strained I asked if he had any news about another buddy of ours. No.

I called our other buddy. The radiation has his throat in knots and pain. He tried to soothe it with rye tonight... you can inagine how that worked out... PAIN! (He was making a joke but he was in pain.) He asked me to come down to his place and take him out hunting. I said I would if I could find a day when I could but it wouldn't be likely (I decline to say herein why that ain't gonna happen).

Fuckin tobacco.

And if any sumbitch says too bad, it's yer own fault...

I am so pissed off right now I wanna scream.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 02:33 AM

Gnu, if he doesn't answer the phone, think about stopping in. Maybe he won't answer the door, either - but maybe he needs a visit. It takes a lot of courage to visit a friend in his last days, but it's worth it.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Janie
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 11:10 PM

Well said, Christina.

My sister had a neighbor who had turned into a very close friend over the years. After it was clear Sis was going to die, but before she got so sick she was house-bound, we were chatting one weekend when I drove up for a visit, and she talked about how much the neighbor meant to her. "We can go out and shop or do other things when I feel like it, or she can just come over and sit in the easy chair while I lie on the couch, and we don't have to say anything, for an hour or more at a time. I can just be when we are together."

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Neil D
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 09:11 PM

One time I was sitting with my best friend Susie after a crisis not quite knowing what to say, so not saying anything for quite a long while. After an hour or so, I apologized for being so quiet but told her I really was at a loss for words. I will always remember what she said to me, " Chrissy, sometimes it's nicer to have someone to just be quiet with than have someone trying to find the right things to say, you are a very good friend, and I have enjoyed just being with you." Sometimes I think it is just about "being" with another person.

                                  Christina

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: maeve
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 08:59 PM

Well done, gnu.

T & P,

Maeve

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: gnu
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 08:39 PM

I left a message... again... this time it was a great joke that I wrote years ago and that's all it was - just the joke. Thanks m.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: maeve
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 08:26 PM

Worth a try.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: gnu
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 08:13 PM

m.... I hadn't thought of that. I have some excellent jokes to leave on his answering machine. Few that I could tell here as they are obscene.... hehehehee... my friends here know what I mean by that. THAT was a good one, eh? Politically beyond correct but there is the crux of the biscuit.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: maeve
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 07:33 PM

So sorry, gnu. My cousin says sometimes she doesn't have the energy to answer the phone. She still likes to listen to messages from friends and family.

Maeve

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 07:12 PM

Nope. It ain't right. And neither is war. Or poverty. Or lack of medical help when you need it. Or lack of community when you need it. Or cruelty of a thousand common kinds.

Good friends, however, are a blessing that cannot be overestimated.

If I knew I was going to die soon...and I will, of course, at some point...I think I'd actually be kind of relieved at finally making the great crossing out of "here" and leaving all the usual troubles of this 3-D existence behind me...troubles like money, aging, illness, conflict, etc. I expect to become the metaphorical butterfly that used to be a caterpillar (alluding to Kat's post above), and I think that might turn out to be the best thing that ever happened when it comes.

And if not...then it might just be a quiet and eternal rest instead. Like falling asleep. And that would be just fine too. Either way, I would call it a good resolution.

My friend Helen had a close relative die awhile back, and she soon started seeing him in dreams. What he said to her was, "The thing that's really different here is that there are no problems. Absolutely no problems at all." She said that he seemed happy and very relieved, and that made her feel much better about his having passed on. She feels that those dreams were a real contact. I have no reason to doubt her.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: gnu
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 06:37 PM

He ain't answerin his phone or answering machine. Last time we talked, he was havin a hard time walkin to the end of his driveway and back once a day.

Sorry if that sounds maudlin or wimpy or whatever. Dunno why I even posted. Just pisses me of that tobacco is still sold here... marketed to kids... it ain't right. It just ain't right.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 04:58 PM

Amergin, thank you so much for your appreciation of my book. I'm so pleased that it helped someone over a rough spot.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Smokey.
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 03:43 PM

Be there, and be yourself. Your strength and your company will be both needed and appreciated.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 03:16 PM

Good words as usual on Mudcat, Gnu. I'm sorry to hear about your friend.
Some years ago my best friend over thirty years died form stomach cabcer. We drove down to Lincolnshire to say 'goodbye' and I ended up being bollocked for being a crap parent, among other things, and waving cheerio as we pulled away. There always will be 'different strokes' but having a good friend like yourself is always a good thing.
Take care and all the best from Charlie.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Amergin
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 03:13 PM

I was with my opa (lung cancer) when he died, and more recently with my other grandfather, when we got the call that his last sister, my aunt (renal failure) when she moved on...

Both when the time came were barely coherent, as they're organs slowly failed. With my opa, I made sure that he knew I loved him, and I gave him humourous books for him to enjoy, one of which was Kendall's Stories Told In the Kitchen, which he dearly loved. Thank you, Kendall, for writing such a great book. It meant alot to an old man in his final months. When the call came, I was taking a bath and reading a book. I immediately got dressed and rushed over, to say goodbye, and we showered him with love as his spirit slowly gasped from the world. Then we embraced each other and cried.

The end for my aunt was similar, except that right up to the end she kept her humour up, and so did we, everyone in and out, to check on her, to be with her, and to joke with her, and more importantly fences were mended with certain people. When the final stage came, it came with a vengeance, one day she was up and about, smoking, and laughing with friends and family, and the next she was bedridden. The last few days, we knew the end was coming, and she slipped in and out of consciousness, seeing ghosts, the spirits of the dead that still haunted her heart, sometimes crying out for them. Then, her last night, she went to sleep, and never woke up again, dying the next afternoon....we were just 20 minutes away, so we couldn't say goodbye to her, just to the husk she vacated.

However, in the end, both knew they were loved, and both knew we would feel the pain of their loss. In my way of thinking, there can be no better way to go, than surrounded by the people who matter the most to you, than surrounded by love.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 03:06 PM

On death, I think it was a Mudcatter who reminded me of this...does a butterfly remember when it was a caterpillar...is death the butterfly of our lives? Just something to think about.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Dave Swan
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:37 PM

In the plague years of the 80's when AIDS (when it finally had that name) was taking so many people, a friend of ours received the death sentence that it then carried. He moved back to the San Francsico area from Los Angeles, still bright and handsome. He didn't look sick yet but we all knew what was coming. There was an uncomfortable period when none of us knew what to say now that he was back in the neighborhood. Finally our friend Michael called Phil and said "I hear you're dying, that sucks......wanna have a beer?" It was the right line at the right time, breaking the ice and putting many of us back in touch with a guy who did his best to live until he died.

There are no rules, as far as I can tell, except this : Show up.

D

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:15 PM

We had a friend and neighbor die of cancer last year. Your first post made me kindly remember him.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:11 PM

I just read em all. Thank you.

This morning "after", I kinda rued starting this thread. But, now I am glad I did. It's wonderful to learn from such kind and wise people and perhaps it will help others. I have seen death up close more than once but they were relatives or buddies that were killed by other than disease. This is the first time I have dealt with the impending death of a long time buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:53 PM

I think one of the most useful phrases is "I was thinking of you." You don't have to mention that he's ill, that he's dying, or anything. Just call and say "Hi. I was thinking about you. How are you doing?"

The worst thing some people do is not make any contact because they feel tongue-tied and embarrassed. Then the ill friend feels shunned and abandoned, and for no good reason.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:27 PM

Joe... I just read your post... I'll have to read the others a bit later... I can barely see to type this... thanks for sharing that.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:11 PM

My very good friend, Gary, died at the age of 52 last October. Big C of the aesophagus. It was very difficult when we all found out - It was only in around June or July - but the best advice I can give is spend as much time with him as HE wants. Ring him or text him. Ask if he is up to it. If he is get your butt round there! If he isn't up to it leave it a while. If he doesn't want to see anyone at all repect his wishes.

If you do get to see him talk as if all is OK. Mention the Cancer by all means but don't be glum about it. Just be honest. We were there one day when the nurse came to catheterise Gary.

'Can we watch?' said John. The nurse wasn't sure if we were joking or not but when Gary said 'No, they are not joking. Piss off you perverts.', it made my day. Laugh a lot. Cry a bit. But most of all, remember all the good times.

Good luck

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: What do you say when they're dying?
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 12:18 PM

When cancer was gaining on my youngest brother he had a lot of visitors. He was a musician, a car mechanic and a roofer (when he got tired of one, he switched to the other for awhile)so his friends were a varied lot.

One day he told me in bemusement that he had finally figured out what was different. He said, Some of those people treat me as though I'm facing something that they never will. But we all die. I have the diagnosis but any one of them could beat me to the line.

Gnu, you are a good buddy.