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BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?

Related threads:
BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp (317)
BS: security concerns about Norway shooting (142)


Mrrzy 04 Dec 11 - 01:42 PM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Dec 11 - 03:02 AM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Dec 11 - 02:59 AM
Mrrzy 03 Dec 11 - 11:25 PM
Keith A of Hertford 03 Dec 11 - 04:26 PM
Jim Carroll 03 Dec 11 - 03:00 PM
Keith A of Hertford 03 Dec 11 - 01:26 PM
Mrrzy 03 Dec 11 - 12:50 PM
Keith A of Hertford 03 Dec 11 - 12:38 PM
MGM·Lion 03 Dec 11 - 12:34 PM
Mrrzy 03 Dec 11 - 12:29 PM
Jim Carroll 03 Dec 11 - 12:19 PM
Mrrzy 03 Dec 11 - 11:12 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Dec 11 - 06:29 AM
Keith A of Hertford 03 Dec 11 - 04:15 AM
GUEST,Teribus 02 Dec 11 - 11:23 PM
Jack the Sailor 02 Dec 11 - 09:35 PM
Mrrzy 02 Dec 11 - 08:12 PM
GUEST,Teribus 02 Dec 11 - 06:15 PM
Mrrzy 02 Dec 11 - 04:07 PM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Dec 11 - 02:23 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Dec 11 - 12:46 PM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Dec 11 - 11:46 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Dec 11 - 10:46 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Dec 11 - 10:29 AM
Mrrzy 02 Dec 11 - 10:24 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Dec 11 - 10:08 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Dec 11 - 10:00 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Dec 11 - 08:46 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Dec 11 - 08:36 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Dec 11 - 06:20 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Dec 11 - 06:05 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Dec 11 - 06:04 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Dec 11 - 05:42 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Dec 11 - 05:28 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Dec 11 - 04:17 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Dec 11 - 03:39 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Dec 11 - 02:40 AM
GUEST,Paul Burke 02 Dec 11 - 02:00 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Dec 11 - 01:21 AM
akenaton 01 Dec 11 - 04:41 PM
Paul Burke 01 Dec 11 - 03:54 PM
akenaton 01 Dec 11 - 03:33 PM
Jack the Sailor 01 Dec 11 - 02:56 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Dec 11 - 02:50 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Dec 11 - 01:19 PM
akenaton 01 Dec 11 - 12:14 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Dec 11 - 11:38 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Dec 11 - 10:17 AM
GUEST,keith A 01 Dec 11 - 09:24 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 01:42 PM

Awfully high-functioning, in that case. I wonder, if they took the massacre off his list of symptoms, if he'd still qualify.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 03:02 AM

paranoid schizophrenia


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 02:59 AM

They say he was delusional when he killed and is schizophrenic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 11:25 PM

If you're crazy then the courts do not consider your motives, but we still can, right?

I love the expression Barking Mad, for some reason.

Do we know whether they have decided that he's mad just because he thought it reasonable to commit terrorism? That would be pretty insane for a Norwegian... or are they really claiming either schizophrenia or manic depression, which are the only two ways for humans to BE barking mad, and in which case, how was he able to keep it together long enough to plan and carry out this attack?

I have a definite impression that it is the latter rather than the former... but that does not make me sure. If so, though, then his motives come right back into the equation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 04:26 PM

- if you have any evidence that
A) His madness excludes him from being a racist


As I said, he is clearly racist, and we now know he is also barking mad.

Does that mean you end here or not Jim? (woof woof)


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 03:00 PM

"Jim,"
I said it ends here - if you have any evidence that
A) His madness excludes him from being a racist
or
B) That there is no risk of others (like Ake or Torpitude) rallying to his attemt at gaining support for his cause - please produce it - but not to me.
I am though fucking up threads by trading opinions with a proven racist who chooses to ignore evidence which doesn't fit his particular twisted brand of bigotry.
I think you might have found a soulmate in our gun-totin' friend - go talk to him - he's more your style.
Over and out
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 01:26 PM

If he did it for a racist motive, he is a criminal.
If he did it for a political motive, he is a criminal.
If he did it because of insane delusions, he is not a criminal, he is criminally insane, and any motive he believed he had is not even considered by the court, because it is irrelevant.

Jim, Michael did not support racism, he challenged your assessment of it.
I remind you that McGrath of Harlow also denied racism in us a few weeks ago, and Joe Offer described us both as " nice people" a few months back.
You have become obsessed with establishing racism where there is none.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 12:50 PM

Why would being insane make everything else irrelevant? Are you saying the court shrinks are claiming that? How odd, Bensonmum...


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 12:38 PM

Being insane does not preclude him from being a racist.
He clearly is a racist.
Being insane does not preclude him from being a racist, or a sexist, or an Anglophobe, or a folk singer.
It is irrelevant to all those things.

Being insane does not in any way lessen the danger of his cause being acted on by others of similar opinions, nor does it increase the danger.

His insanity makes everything else irrelevant.
He only did it because he is insane.
(According to the court psychiatrists who have spent months assessing and diagnosing him.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 12:34 PM

"The only postings that can be vaguely described as support for your racism has come from someone who appears to believe that the only racism worth taking seriously is anti-Semitism," Jim wrote above addressing Keith.

I suspect he means me. If not, I beg his pardon. But if I am right, then it is by no means an accurate statement of my position. I should like to ask Jim to quote anything I have said anywhere which might even suggest that it is.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 12:29 PM

Ad Hominem!


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 12:19 PM

Whoops - sorry
two- of course
"And I wasn't saying Teribus said something"
And my remarks weren't aimed at you - Teribus never says anything - of worth anyway.
".....Is that no longer thought to be the case?"
Not as far as I can see - he has been pronounced insane, but it certainly does not preclude him from being a racist; nor does it in any way lessen the danger of his cause being acted on by others of similar opinions.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 11:12 AM

tow = straw?

Sorry. There is another thread for you two.

The rest of us are still discussing the thread.

And I wasn't saying Teribus said something, I was asking a question to the thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 06:29 AM

Keith - nobody gives a **** any more
You want to continue to try to make this a tow man argument - feel free - I'm quite happy that you've said what you've said - that these killings have no political implications whatever - sums up you and terminus (and his guns) perfectly.
People are quite caable of making up thir own minds whether this is the case - and of your motives for making such a statement
"denial among ant-muslim bigots," has it about right ("right" being the operative word)

Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 04:15 AM

There were 3 threads on this issue.
Terribus mostly posted here.
thread.cfm?threadid=139289

He was the best informed of all of us, and remarkably prescient.
Jim, on the other hand .....
Oh dear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 11:23 PM

Time honoured conservative tactic eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 09:05 AM

No death penalty in Norway and the maximum possible prison sentence to impose is 20 years. He can however be classified as a danger to society and held under review and that could possibly mean that he will never be released.

The attacks occurred the day before I wrote that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 09:35 PM

Did Teribus ever think that? I've seen no evidence that he did.

It is a time honored "conservative" tactic to try to reframe the narrative of a story after most people have moved on to other interests.

If anything is keeping this thread alive besides denial among ant-muslim bigots, I'd like to know what it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 08:12 PM

Hmmm - early reports were that he was upset with the multiculturalism of the ruling party - and that was why he targeted them. Is that no longer thought to be the case?


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 06:15 PM

And his killings had nothing whatsoever to do with his religion, or his religious beliefs. His anger was targeted at the political establishment in Norway, it's current ruling Party and specifically one of their former leaders, who he missed at Utøya.

Insane means that they can hold him indefinitely, which is what I think will happen. Insane means he will probably never get the forum he hoped his actions would guarantee him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 04:07 PM

The killings weren't racist - norwegian on norwegian is hardly racist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:23 PM

Why are you attempting to divert our attention away from the racist nature of these killings
I am not.
You have dreamt up a new crime to accuse me of!

and why have you never responded to the fact that at least 2 people on this thread used it as an excuse to attack multiculturalism?
How should I respond?
Ake has always disagreed with multiculturalism.
Lots of people do.
Why would anyone need "an excuse"??

You have said what you said on the Palestine thread - that Israeli atrocities against civilians didn't happen or are acceptable
No I have NOT!
It was YOU who said they DID happen.
I just asked how you knew, because Israel denies it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 12:46 PM

Short or lonfg - it says what it says - and you still haven't produced one single quote thast involves "all Pakistanis or "cultural implants."What is wrong with you?"
I detest racists
Why are you attempting to divert our attention away from the racist nature of these killings and why have you never responded to the fact that at least 2 people on this thread used it as an excuse to attack multiculturalism?
You have said what you said on the Palestine thread - that Israeli atrocities against civilians didn't happen or are acceptable - what's to distort?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 11:46 AM

Jim, that Feb post of mine was very short.
To make your case, you have to extract one sentence from only 3, and even leave out half of that and add your own bits.
You are a devious and dishonest person.
You resort to these ludicrous accusations whenever you are shown up as unable to support your position in a discussion.
Now you are misrepresenting even my pms to you.

And, you have just misrepresented my position in this thread, on the Palestine thread!

What is wrong with you?
Stop it Jim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 10:46 AM

"The five names have all been given many times."
The quote has not - no "All Pakistanis" no "cultural implant"
For the record - you have just all but admitted on a PM that nowhere has anybody referred to either.
"All further discussion of this by pm only. "
I will post the PMs if I believe them to be relevant to your continued racism here.
If there s any dispute - I will simply post them all
Why do you insist on diverting this racist attack away from racism?
Jim Carrol


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 10:29 AM

So no person of faith can ever be not guilty because of insanity, but atheists can?
If he had been an atheist racist he would be alright, but because one of his delusions was that he was a Christian, he must go down?


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 10:24 AM

If he had been a crazy atheist he wouldn't have had all the reasons behind him that he had as a crazy fundie. It is completely relevent that this was a monotheistic act of terrorism, no different from 9-11.

Same god, same reasons, same methods.

The only reason he's even being *considered* insane is that Norway isn't fundementalist. If it were, he'd have been normal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 10:08 AM

The five names have all been given many times.
The quotes were all linked to, or pasted, or both, on the original thread.
All further discussion of this by pm only.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 10:00 AM

Your response - in relation to discussion on Pakistani representation in acuiring young women for sex
"Don I do now " believe that all male Pakistani Muslims have a culturally implanted tendency" towards having sex with under-age girls
Outside the quotation marks refers to what was being discussed at the time, which has been put to you many times and which you have not disputed but attributed to "experts" which you still decine to name.
How about some names and quotes?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 08:46 AM

"All male Pakistanis are culturally degenerate"

Who made this ludicrous statement Jim.
You put it up as a quote.
Is it a quote?
I hope you are not ascribing it to me.

I am replying by PM to your groundless slanders and smears.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 08:36 AM

Can we be quite clear about this.
When you re-opened this thread I believed it to be an exercise in one-upmanship on your part to prove I was wrong.
I now believe that this was not the case - it is yet another branch of your anti-Muslim campaign along with the 'Muslim Prejudice' thread, where you set out to prove BRITISH Muslim Pakistanis to be degenerates and your postings to the Palestine thread where you are attempting to justify the slaughter ofArbs by the Israelis.
Once again you fail to produce one single quote from one single expert claiming that "All male Pakistanis are culturally degenerate" because there are none - it would have been illegal to have made such an outlandishly racist statement without proof - no public figure has ever made such a claim exept fascists from groups like the BNP and the English Defence League and even they have been forced to clean up their act in order to appear "respectable" to the British electorate.
The only postings that can be vaguely described as support for your racism has come from someone who appears to believe that the only racism worth taking seriously is anti-Semitism, and even he has expressed reservations at your stance.
Here you appear to be defending what is obviously a blatently racist attack in order to rally support for attacks on multiculturalism.
You have totally ignored the attacks on multiculturalism on this thread, and you ignore the fact that it is and always has been possible to be a racist and insane - Germany was full of madmen who belived in racial superiority and inferiority; did the fact that they were insane enough to attempt to anihilate an entire ethnic culture make them any less racist or dangerous? Are you honestly trying to claim that the fanatical anti-Semites who sent six million Jews to the gas chambers were not both insane and racist - as Breivik was?
THIS WAS A RACIST ATTACK FROM A RACIST IN ORDER TO ATTRACT SUPPORT FOR A RACIST CAUSE - PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
Racism has become a fixed part of all our lives, and glossing it over is an act of racism in itself.
Maybe Sailor Jack is right:
"You are not likely to argue away such explicitly express bigotry. Leave it to the mental health professionals."
I still believe it worth the effort to point our racism when it is espoused with the determination you have shown you have shown to your crusade.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 06:20 AM

"Breivik's links" was just his futile, failed attempts to find anyone who shared his insane delusions.

He achieved no links.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 06:05 AM

Keith's message
"The 5 all ascribed the offending to specified aspects of their culture.
It was not my claim.
I only expressed my belief because Don put the question directly to me.
I had every reason to believe them.
What reason not to?
"It is racist" will not do. "
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 06:04 AM

"I will knock down your nonsense in a pm."
And I will put it up for public scrutiny
Know my nonsense down in public and we can put it to bed once and for all.
It s relevant to this thread as it concerns your continuous defence of extreme racism here as there.
You have had my sole statement about Breivik's links with English fascist groups - are you claiming they did not take place?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 05:42 AM

"You have been presented with evidence that links this massacre with two racist groups in Britain - you have the public response to one of those groups, which you haven't even bothered to acknowledge, so here it is once again for you to ignore:
".....but he does not want to decry the beliefs that led to Breivik's actions.... "the slaughter might wake Europeans up".
There are other such groups scattered all over Europe and the stated aim of this guy was to stir such groups into action.
There have already been violent racist incidents in some of the former communist states, attacks on Roms and on immigrant workers.
And in the light of these attacks the governments concerned should sit on their hands - yeah, right, fits in perfectly with everything you have argued on racism so far!
"....accusing him of NOT acting alone"
Not accusing him of any such thing SJ, I am suggesting that until we know whether he was or not, and if his wake-up call has had any effect,"

It did not Jim.He was ignored as a madman.

And you want to discuss Pakistanis, on the forum, AGAIN!
I will knock down your nonsense in a pm.
Mudcat has suffered enough from your sad, deranged obsessions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 05:28 AM

"poor old Keith,"
W've been overthis a hundred times Keith - you said that you believed that all Male Pakistanis had a cultural implant that makes them potential abusers of under-age girls
You claimed you only said so because "experts" have said the same - yet you have totally failed to prooduce one single quote that mentions "all male Pakistanis" or a "cultural implant" and if I ask you to do soo now, you will not because it is your statement and yours alone.
You wrote you beliecved it and you used it in your attack on Muslims - say you didn't and produce your quotes - waitingggggg
"Any evidence that any extremist group colluded with the madman, as you claimed,"
Where did I make any such claim? (once again a rhetorical question for which I don't expect to receive an answer.
I said it was a possibility that groups would respond to his call and the authorities should not relax their investigation until they were certain that was not the case. In fact The English Defence League leader, with whom Breivik had made contact when he was a member of the British National Party did, like Ake (and Breivik) say that Multiculturalism should be addressed as the problem.
Are you prepared to tell us why you are attempting to divert the focus of this appalling massacre away from its racist motivation - or can we guess for ourselves?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 04:17 AM

You describe them as potential sexual perverts because of their culture - that's hate enough for me.
Lie.
You've had the accounts of how the insanity verdict has been reached
In the event, the two court-appointed psychiatrists, Torgeir Husby and Synne Soerheim, concluded that Breivik had "developed the mental disorder of paranoid schizophrenia".

Any evidence that any extremist group colluded with the madman, as you claimed, or did he act out his mad, deluded fantasies alone?


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 03:39 AM

"Jim....You misunderstand my views, I have no wish to denigrate either homosexuals or people of other races,"
"the idiocy of "multi culturalism".
"or the promotion of homosexuality as a safe and healthy lifestyle,"
If you can't see that describing the living together of people of different cultures and races as "idiocy", and suggesting that homosexuality, which is as natural to some people as our hetrosexuality is to us, as "unhealthy",(assuming, of course, that you are not a latent homosexual yourself, taking your hang-ups out on those who have had the courage to 'come out' and risk the bigotry that you display here) - then you need both a brain and a humanity transplant.
Your attitude has fuelled Paki and queer-bashing for a good half of my lifetime, even though I'm quite sure you have never indulged in the practices yourself - you are a racist and a bigot, in that order .
"Politically I am much more "to the left" than you appear to be."
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but if you describe yourself as a socialist, you need to prefix "National" to it - the essential of the socialism I adhere to is internationalist and embraces all nationalities, colours and cultures.
"whatever that means"
"Homophobia is a term used to refer to a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards lesbian, gay and in some cases bisexual, transgender people and behavior, although these are usually covered under other terms such as biphobia and transphobia. Definitions refer to irrational fear, with the implication of antipathy, contempt, prejudice, and aversion. The term "homophobia" is observable in critical and hostile behavior such as discrimination and violence on the basis of a perceived homosexual or in some cases any non-heterosexual orientation. In a 1998 address, author, activist, and civil rights leader Coretta Scott King stated that "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood."
"The victims were not Muslims."
The victims on the day of the massacre were not Muslims; the stated aim of the killer was "multiculturalism" - Muslims, and all other races and cultures would spend their lives being victims if his ideas and objectives if his (and your) ideas ever take a hold.
"I do not hate Muslims,"
You describe them as potential sexual perverts because of their culture - that's hate enough for me.
You've had the accounts of how the insanity verdict has been reached and how it has been greeted in Norway by experts and laymen alike - and once again you have chosen to ignore it - no surprise there.
I suppose you realise that by claiming that this cannot be considered a racist attack, you are now defending fascism and racism at its most extreme, violent and dangerous - again, no surprise to me, I wonder if it is to you - somehow I doubt it.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:40 AM

I do not hate Muslims, and pointing out that the madman was so mad that he killed non-Muslims because of his phobia against Muslims, is not evidence of any hate on my part Paul.

You referred to "violent action against Muslims" when there was none.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:00 AM

You're being deliberately thick, again just so you can go on hating Muslims. He said was trying to provoke a holy war against Muslims in Norway. This is quoted from your rag of choice:

The man who reportedly shot dead at least 85 people at a youth camp and killed another seven with a car bomb in the Norwegian capital of Oslo, released a YouTube video calling for conservatives to 'embrace martyrdom' six hours before the attacks, it has emerged.

Anders Behring Breivik posted the video promoting a fight against Islam, which shows pictures of him wearing a wetsuit and pointing an automatic weapon, hours before he set out on the devastating killing spree.

In a text with the video he detailed his plans for the attacks, writing that he would 'dress up as a police officer', adding that it would 'be awesome as people will be astonished'.
Manifesto of terror: Anders Behring Breivik poses in a wetsuit holding an automatic weapon in a YouTube video posted six hours before the deadly attacks

Manifesto of terror: Anders Behring Breivik poses in a wetsuit holding an automatic weapon in a YouTube video posted six hours before the deadly attacks
Attacks: Breivik set out how to make bombs from fertilisers and how to receive them in large quantities by setting up an agricultural company

Attacks: Breivik set out how to make bombs from fertilisers and how to receive them in large quantities by setting up an agricultural company

In the disturbing 1,500-page dossier, he wrote that 'there are situations where cruelty is necessary' and that it is better to kill too many than not enough'.

Police sources told Norwegian media that Breivik had confessed to posting the video setting out his extremist views before the attacks.

Breivik was a member of the Masonic lodge in Oslo and had links to the English Defence League.

In one post online, he wrote: 'I have on some occasions discussed with... the EDL and recommended them to use conscious strategies.

'The tactics of the EDL is to ''entice'' an overreaction from jihad youth/extreme Marxists, something they have succeeded [in] several times already.'

Police chief Roger Andersen said: 'What we know is that he is right wing and a Christian fundamentalist.'


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 01:21 AM

Breivik absorbed and amplified the hate around him, and saw himself as leading that wave of hate to violent action against Muslims,

The victims were not Muslims.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 04:41 PM

Jim....Why should I join either of the political parties you mention?
Politically I am much more "to the left" than you appear to be.
Your last post is full of assumptions and inaccuracies....it is better passed over.

I have little interest in what either you or Jack think of me, butI have a good deal of respect for Joe as administrator.
I have been here for a number of years without changing my stance on these issues and despite your repeated attempts to have me silenced or banned, admin have stated that they will not do so.

Had I been in the eyes of the folks who run this forum....a "homophobe"(whatever that means), or a racist, I am sure your wishes would have been complied with....FINIS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 03:54 PM

People go mad in ways conditioned by the society that they are in. The mad Lord George Gordon was a fanatical antiCatholic who incited lethal riots in the London of the 1780s. The mad "Sir William Courtenay" led a small gang of impoverished farm labourers to violent disaster in Bossenden Wood in Kent in the 1830s. Madness engulfs whole societies. It is not less damaging for that you'll agree.

There are competing madnesses, feeding off each other, which threaten between them to engulf the world. It's no more surprising that Breivik absorbed and amplified the hate around him, and saw himself as leading that wave of hate to violent action against Muslims, than it is that some young Muslims who self- dramatise in similar ways: they are mad too.

As are all who subscribe to that hate. And as you don't have the power to do much about the hate in others, try to at least eschew it yourself. You won't even start to do that until you recognise that it's there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 03:33 PM

Jim....You misunderstand my views, I have no wish to denigrate either homosexuals or people of other races, as I have explained on numerous occasions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 02:56 PM

Jim,
You are not likely to argue away such explicitly express bigotry. Leave it to the mental health professionals.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 02:50 PM

More time now.
Sorry, should have added - I don't believe for one minute that you would ever carry out the horrific crimes perpetrated by this young man, but his motivation for doing what he did was not greatly different from your own stated attitude.
Society has deemed fit to make unacceptable the rejection of people because of their race colour or religion and it has been found necessary to pass laws making it illegal to publicly advocate views that persecute, belittle, or disadvantage people who are different from the indigeanous popululation.
Breivik is an example of what can happen if views like yours go unchecked - even the most right-wing of Powell's colleagues rejected him in the end.
Multiculturalism can work and has worked - my own family went to Britain at the time of the famine, intergrated perfectly and are now indistinguishable from the indigenous population - they were, of course the "right" colour.
If you are serious about your views, join the BNP or the English National Party - they'll help you try to get what you want.
BTW - it has never been my intention to target you - but I find your statements so outrageously unaceptable that have found it difficult not to use them as an example of racist or homophobic intollerance - tehe crunch came here when Keith cited you as proof that Breivik was not really a racist and his racist views had nothing to do with his crimes
Jim Carroll   
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 01:19 PM

I think those who hold the views you have just put forward are racists and homophobes - both of which, when aimed at human beings in order to denigrate and persecute them, are illegal .
Ever considered trying humanity?


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 12:14 PM

Jim, I am a white atheist and am against what I see as the idiocy of "multi culturalism".
I am neither a Fascist nor a thug and would never carry out the horrific crimes perpetrated by this young man.
To do so, one would require to be very seriously deranged.
Perhaps you think that those who does not share your point of view on immigration, or the promotion of homosexuality as a safe and healthy lifestyle, are seriously deranged......that attitude is in itself a serious problem.

Ever considered counselling.....or aromatherapy?


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 11:38 AM

"It was just a random madman."
As you can see - he was far from a random madman - he was - as I said "a white, Christian, Fascist thug protesting against multiculturalism"
The only doubt was whether his being "a white, Christian, Fascist thug protesting against the multiculturalism" meant he was also mad - that particular panel judged that he was; a different one could just have easily judged otherwise.
Whatever side of the line you fall on; what a perfect argument against the finality of capital punishment, don't you think?
McVeigh, in exactly the same situation, was executed for his crime - in the state of Oklahoma, second only to Texas for having the largest number of excecutions in the US (Jones and Hitler committed suicide b.t.w).   
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 10:17 AM

BBC 29 November 2011
Last updated at 22:26 GMT Share this pageEmail Print Share this page
340ShareFacebookTwitter.Norwegian disbelief at Breivik 'insanity' By Liss Goril Anda
Norwegian journalist
Many Norwegians fear that the decision may mean Breivik evades punishment Continue reading the main story
Norway AttacksAssessing a killer's sanity
The victims
How attacks happened
Breivik profile
The Norwegian public, politicians and experts alike are expressing surprise at the verdict of insanity delivered by the forensic psychiatrists assessing Anders Behring Breivik.
Many psychiatrists were quoted by the news media ahead of Tuesday's announcement as saying that he was likely to be deemed sane.
In the event, the two court-appointed psychiatrists, Torgeir Husby and Synne Soerheim, concluded that Breivik had "developed the mental disorder of paranoid schizophrenia".
Breivik himself has said he found the verdict insulting and that although he had feared it, he had not expected this outcome.
The Norwegian media's general use of the term schizophrenic also fails to match their portrayal of Breivik. This makes it hard for people to understand how the verdict was reached, triggering concerns that he is "getting away lightly".
The media have given minute descriptions of how Breivik spent years planning his attacks. His ability to do so makes it difficult for many people to accept that he cannot be held to account for them.
Experts divided
In Norway, only about one in five of similar forensic assessments tend to conclude that the perpetrator was insane. This has led even some experts to question the committee's findings.
Media coverage reflects the public's uncertainty at the verdict.
The website of the broadsheet newspaper Aftenposten carried a headline on Tuesday evening with a quote from a Swedish psychiatrist expressing surprise. He points out that Breivik does not appear to have been hallucinating at any point during the attack.
Svenn Torgersen, professor of psychology at the University of Oslo, pointed out to the newspaper Dagbladet that Hitler and Stalin would have been unlikely to receive the same diagnosis as Breivik.
Meanwhile, journalist and commentator Anders Giever remarked in the newspaper VG that although Breivik's statements might seem delusional to outsiders, he has most likely been supported in his view of reality by other users of the extreme right-wing forums he frequented.
The attacks have led to much soul-searching among Norwegians The name of Quisling, leader of Norway's collaborationist government during the Nazi occupation, is frequently brought up in debates on web forums as a comparison.
Do somebody's extreme opinions preclude them from being held responsible for their actions?
There is also concern as to how this verdict will affect those directly affected by the attacks.
Lawyer Brynjar Meling, representing several of the victims of the attacks, has already requested a second opinion on the verdict.
Progress Party member Per Sandberg expressed surprise and outrage at the verdict in an interview with Norwegian public broadcaster NRK.
"The verdict cannot be accepted," he said. "Victims must be certain that he will not be released any time soon."
Sandberg added that his party, of which Breivik was previously a member, would call for a review of how one determines whether a person is fit to stand trial.
But Dagfinn Hoybraten, the previous Christian Democratic Party leader, told the broadcaster that he disagrees.
"We are fortunate to have an independent justice system in Norway, and therefore politicians like us need to keep from telling them what they should be doing," he said.
Liberal party leader Trine Skei Grande agreed, saying that the current regulations must be abided by.
Soul searching
The report will now be examined by the Forensic Commission, who are free to give further comments or ask for more work to be done.
Lawyers have however pointed out that they are unlikely to attempt to overturn the verdict of such a thorough report.
The trial will proceed in much the same manner as if Breivik had been found sound of mind. Evidence will still be examined, and the court has the final say as to whether or not they believe Breivik is guilty of having carried out the attacks.
The killings provoked an outpouring of grief in Norway However, they usually heed the forensic assessment, which in all likelihood means he will not be sentenced to prison, but sectioned instead.
Some are less surprised by the verdict, pointing to Breivik's manifesto as evidence of his delusions.
Web forums also emphasise that this outcome is not entirely negative. If sent to prison, Breivik would have ample opportunity to stoke right-wing extremist opinions among fellow inmates as a sort of martyr.
Being under treatment in a high-security mental health unit will, if nothing else, would severely limit his ability to do so.
Lawyer Carl Bore, also representing some of the victims, told NRK that although he is surprised, he sees no reason to doubt the committee's verdict.
He points out that Norway has done a lot of soul-searching since this summer.
"People ask themselves how this could happen, and look for scapegoats," he said. "Maybe we can more easily move on as a society when we see that it was simply caused by a sick person."
Surprise or not, Norway's struggle to cope with this manifestation of right-wing extremism is sure to be affected by the verdict.


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Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: GUEST,keith A
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 09:24 AM

Were they all innocent because of insanity?

This guy killed because he was insane.
He just happened to be white and Christian, as were all his victims.

His colour and faith were immaterial.
His insanity was the whole story.

You just wanted his race and colour to be his reason for killing because it suited your warped agenda.


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