BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 11:46 AM

Jim, that Feb post of mine was very short.
To make your case, you have to extract one sentence from only 3, and even leave out half of that and add your own bits.
You are a devious and dishonest person.
You resort to these ludicrous accusations whenever you are shown up as unable to support your position in a discussion.
Now you are misrepresenting even my pms to you.

And, you have just misrepresented my position in this thread, on the Palestine thread!

What is wrong with you?
Stop it Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 12:46 PM

Short or lonfg - it says what it says - and you still haven't produced one single quote thast involves "all Pakistanis or "cultural implants."What is wrong with you?"
I detest racists
Why are you attempting to divert our attention away from the racist nature of these killings and why have you never responded to the fact that at least 2 people on this thread used it as an excuse to attack multiculturalism?
You have said what you said on the Palestine thread - that Israeli atrocities against civilians didn't happen or are acceptable - what's to distort?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:23 PM

Why are you attempting to divert our attention away from the racist nature of these killings
I am not.
You have dreamt up a new crime to accuse me of!

and why have you never responded to the fact that at least 2 people on this thread used it as an excuse to attack multiculturalism?
How should I respond?
Ake has always disagreed with multiculturalism.
Lots of people do.
Why would anyone need "an excuse"??

You have said what you said on the Palestine thread - that Israeli atrocities against civilians didn't happen or are acceptable
No I have NOT!
It was YOU who said they DID happen.
I just asked how you knew, because Israel denies it.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 04:07 PM

The killings weren't racist - norwegian on norwegian is hardly racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 06:15 PM

And his killings had nothing whatsoever to do with his religion, or his religious beliefs. His anger was targeted at the political establishment in Norway, it's current ruling Party and specifically one of their former leaders, who he missed at Utøya.

Insane means that they can hold him indefinitely, which is what I think will happen. Insane means he will probably never get the forum he hoped his actions would guarantee him.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 08:12 PM

Hmmm - early reports were that he was upset with the multiculturalism of the ruling party - and that was why he targeted them. Is that no longer thought to be the case?

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 09:35 PM

Did Teribus ever think that? I've seen no evidence that he did.

It is a time honored "conservative" tactic to try to reframe the narrative of a story after most people have moved on to other interests.

If anything is keeping this thread alive besides denial among ant-muslim bigots, I'd like to know what it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 11:23 PM

Time honoured conservative tactic eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 09:05 AM

No death penalty in Norway and the maximum possible prison sentence to impose is 20 years. He can however be classified as a danger to society and held under review and that could possibly mean that he will never be released.

The attacks occurred the day before I wrote that.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 04:15 AM

There were 3 threads on this issue.
Terribus mostly posted here.
thread.cfm?threadid=139289

He was the best informed of all of us, and remarkably prescient.
Jim, on the other hand .....
Oh dear.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 06:29 AM

Keith - nobody gives a **** any more
You want to continue to try to make this a tow man argument - feel free - I'm quite happy that you've said what you've said - that these killings have no political implications whatever - sums up you and terminus (and his guns) perfectly.
People are quite caable of making up thir own minds whether this is the case - and of your motives for making such a statement
"denial among ant-muslim bigots," has it about right ("right" being the operative word)

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 11:12 AM

tow = straw?

Sorry. There is another thread for you two.

The rest of us are still discussing the thread.

And I wasn't saying Teribus said something, I was asking a question to the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 12:19 PM

Whoops - sorry
two- of course
"And I wasn't saying Teribus said something"
And my remarks weren't aimed at you - Teribus never says anything - of worth anyway.
".....Is that no longer thought to be the case?"
Not as far as I can see - he has been pronounced insane, but it certainly does not preclude him from being a racist; nor does it in any way lessen the danger of his cause being acted on by others of similar opinions.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 12:29 PM

Ad Hominem!

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 12:34 PM

"The only postings that can be vaguely described as support for your racism has come from someone who appears to believe that the only racism worth taking seriously is anti-Semitism," Jim wrote above addressing Keith.

I suspect he means me. If not, I beg his pardon. But if I am right, then it is by no means an accurate statement of my position. I should like to ask Jim to quote anything I have said anywhere which might even suggest that it is.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 12:38 PM

Being insane does not preclude him from being a racist.
He clearly is a racist.
Being insane does not preclude him from being a racist, or a sexist, or an Anglophobe, or a folk singer.
It is irrelevant to all those things.

Being insane does not in any way lessen the danger of his cause being acted on by others of similar opinions, nor does it increase the danger.

His insanity makes everything else irrelevant.
He only did it because he is insane.
(According to the court psychiatrists who have spent months assessing and diagnosing him.)

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 12:50 PM

Why would being insane make everything else irrelevant? Are you saying the court shrinks are claiming that? How odd, Bensonmum...

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 01:26 PM

If he did it for a racist motive, he is a criminal.
If he did it for a political motive, he is a criminal.
If he did it because of insane delusions, he is not a criminal, he is criminally insane, and any motive he believed he had is not even considered by the court, because it is irrelevant.

Jim, Michael did not support racism, he challenged your assessment of it.
I remind you that McGrath of Harlow also denied racism in us a few weeks ago, and Joe Offer described us both as " nice people" a few months back.
You have become obsessed with establishing racism where there is none.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 03:00 PM

"Jim,"
I said it ends here - if you have any evidence that
A) His madness excludes him from being a racist
or
B) That there is no risk of others (like Ake or Torpitude) rallying to his attemt at gaining support for his cause - please produce it - but not to me.
I am though fucking up threads by trading opinions with a proven racist who chooses to ignore evidence which doesn't fit his particular twisted brand of bigotry.
I think you might have found a soulmate in our gun-totin' friend - go talk to him - he's more your style.
Over and out
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 04:26 PM

- if you have any evidence that
A) His madness excludes him from being a racist

As I said, he is clearly racist, and we now know he is also barking mad.

Does that mean you end here or not Jim? (woof woof)

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 11:25 PM

If you're crazy then the courts do not consider your motives, but we still can, right?

I love the expression Barking Mad, for some reason.

Do we know whether they have decided that he's mad just because he thought it reasonable to commit terrorism? That would be pretty insane for a Norwegian... or are they really claiming either schizophrenia or manic depression, which are the only two ways for humans to BE barking mad, and in which case, how was he able to keep it together long enough to plan and carry out this attack?

I have a definite impression that it is the latter rather than the former... but that does not make me sure. If so, though, then his motives come right back into the equation.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 02:59 AM

They say he was delusional when he killed and is schizophrenic.

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 03:02 AM

paranoid schizophrenia

Subject: RE: BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 01:42 PM

Awfully high-functioning, in that case. I wonder, if they took the massacre off his list of symptoms, if he'd still qualify.