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BS: The Republican Default Crises
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Subject: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 25 Jul 11 - 11:17 PM There are about 300 Congressmen who are so impressed that they have actually flustered the usually implacable Obama, that they think they smell blood in the water. Boehner could have cracked some skulls but he is afraid he will be replaced if he doesn't play Cantors game of having an adult conversation and wathen walk out. There are no polls that favor the Republican position in this battle. It seems many the Tea Party is OK with blowing up the economy to harm Obama. What they don;t know is that the repurcussion will last 12 to 20 years. The Republicans are defending the oil loopholes and tax loopholes for the wealthiest 400 men in the country to the point that even the rich are bemoaning the monster thier think tanks invented to advance a Republican Party that was in tattters after the economic crash. The Republican plans go beyond defending loopholes for billionaires, it would cap spending so the USA could not respond to disasters. There would not even be money for low interest loans to victims. We could not extend Unemployment insurance and most important... The cuts would cost jobs without revenue offsets. Econ 101 - More money in the system = more spending and a better economy. Less money in the system = less spending and a worse economy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 25 Jul 11 - 11:36 PM The problem is no knows how much the US credit rating will drop if a default occurs. No one knows how far a world economy would sink as the world standard dollar sinks. No one knows how high credit card fees and rates will go. Republicans say there will be no default, Tea Party says a default doesn't matter and there will be no compromise, even after Obama agreed to cut SS MEdicare and mediaid. Republicans say Obama had no plan, but he had 3. Republicans say he is liar. Republicans say he is formenting class warfare and scaring old people. It really seems that this is the Limbaugh strategy of creating an American failure that will make Obama a failure. There is one thing I know for sure. If a default happens, even by a small delay, it will be a monumental first. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Stringsinger Date: 26 Jul 11 - 11:50 AM Remember that the Tea-o-crats are "hell-bent" on destroying the country and replacing it with their godliness. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 26 Jul 11 - 12:01 PM Taking the American President Barak Obama hostage requires that the entire country and the life of the world economy that use the dollar as a standard are threatened with death, unless we pay the ransom of eliminating Federal Goverment regulatory agencies and its social programs. Political scientists will look at this moment in time when 87 tea party congressmen and women were able to not merely threaten but destroy such a large country with a heroic history. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 26 Jul 11 - 12:49 PM The point is though, that everybody in the Western World (especially US voters) will remember just who it was suggesting solutions, and who it was sitting tight with their heads up their arses. Those dumb bastards may just ensure Obama's second term, and I'm certain that isn't their intention. God help America if it loses its economic clout to China and India. Payback for the destruction of the Nipponese Co-prosperity Sphere, and won't emerging Asia love that? What price brain transplants for Republican Congressmen and Senators Mr Obama? Then they might qualify as imbeciles. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: dick greenhaus Date: 26 Jul 11 - 08:06 PM Default is unconstitutional. (14th Amendment) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Greg F. Date: 26 Jul 11 - 10:08 PM (especially US voters) will remember just who it was suggesting solutions, and who it was sitting tight with their heads up their arses. The average A.D.D.-afflicted U.S. voter will have forgotten long before the 2012 election. Just wait & see. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 26 Jul 11 - 10:32 PM It's very rare that I disagree with you, Greg, but I think the Repubs, inspite of their unlimited $$$ at election time, won't be able to erase what they have done to our country... People aren't quite that stupid... Or should I say, "I hope that people aren't that stupid"... What I do know is that if the Dems could match the Repubs in $$$ then the Repubs would be swept out of Congress in 2012 but, sadly, the Repubs now, thanks to a Repub packed Supreme Court, will throw everything and the kitchen sink in the 2012 el3ection and will try to Willie Horton the Dems.... If the Repubs win in 2012 then the US will be right about where Germany was in 1936... Yes, history does repeat itself... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: dick greenhaus Date: 26 Jul 11 - 10:34 PM Refusing to raise the debs ceiling is like saving money by not paying your bills....not the swiftest approach |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Jack the Sailor Date: 26 Jul 11 - 11:55 PM I guess it it more like threatening your domestic partner that if they don't cut down on nail polish, you will stop paying the mortgage. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST Date: 27 Jul 11 - 01:38 AM So, Donuel, you support Obama's plan for solving the U.S.'s financial problems? If so, what are his plans? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Richard Bridge Date: 27 Jul 11 - 03:54 AM What is the current timescale? Am I right that even if a deal can be done it is still too late for it to pass the legislative process in time? If so what is plan B? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Rumncoke Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:22 AM My little corner of the globe has been watching the US commit financial suicide since the sub prime mortgage disaster came to light. I can't imagine what it would be like for Americans living with a broken economy and a global financial system which blames the US for the present economic downturn but it seems that there are people who want to find out for themselves no matter what the sensible people advise. To many people the US appears to be acting like someone ordering a mink coat to keep themselves warm rather than mending the broken windows in their house. It would't be so bad but the heating is still full on. We see a system where the power is with those with money and they want to keep it that way, and to Hell with the rest of society and the rest of the world. No wonder the President is going grey at such a rate. He looks like a man who got his dream job on the board only to discover that the safe door is open and the other directors are not answering their phones. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: MarkS Date: 27 Jul 11 - 09:32 AM I would be more confident if the Dems finally presented a budget which could be discussed. Obama presented a budget in Jaunuary which was rejected by the Senate 97-0, and Harry Reid has not presented a budget in some 2 1/2 years. All we are discussing today are "frameworks," and arbitrary numbers which appear to still kick the can down the road. There is just a limit how far down the road we can go with debt ceiling increases and continuing resolutions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 27 Jul 11 - 11:43 AM ""So, Donuel, you support Obama's plan for solving the U.S.'s financial problems? If so, what are his plans? DougR"" Well there it is! Bang on time and proving Greg F right. Dougie actually believes that sitting with your head up your arse is a plan. Seems to me that anything anybody actually does will work better than that Doug. The Repubs should maybe consider the ostrich. Sticking their heads in the sand would be marginally less stupid, and a whole lot less stinky. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 27 Jul 11 - 11:50 AM Obama has had three plans, first Cantor walked out on, 2 trillion cuts and close loopholes for billionaires. Second 4 trillion cuts and 800 billion revenue that Boehber walked out on. and three the Reed plan that is revenue neutral. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: MarkS Date: 27 Jul 11 - 01:10 PM According to a press release just documented on "The Hill", Earl Blumenauer (D) Ore, has stated that nobody on the hill has seen the Reid plan. Must be another of those "vote for it in order to see what is in it" packages. Am I the only one who has started to dispare about the state of our legislative process? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: gnu Date: 27 Jul 11 - 02:51 PM Is this a ploy to boost exports and get a little cash going? AND raise interest rates to gouge more coin out of the populace who are in debt or who live on a fixed income? Not that any of that would have any effect on the rich except to put more coin in their pockets. Or are we looking at another Great Delusion like we had before WW2? And where is that money that Bernie made off with? They STILL can't find it? And why is SOMEONE throwing cruise missiles around like Nerf balls if they can't pay for them? Is this all just smoke and assholes? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: DougR Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:04 PM The Republicans in the House of Representatives have passed two bills, and both of them raised the debt limit. The Democrats in the Senate voted on one and shot it down, the other one Harry Reid would not allow to come to a vote. So how in the world could anyone believe the Republicans are to blame for the current mess? Why won't the Democrats compromise? If they would, there would be no crisis. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: pdq Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:14 PM The claim that "wars" caused the budget problem is not supported by fact. After the Sept. 11 atrocities, we engaged the enemy in Afghanistan and later in Iraq. We also beefed up security at foreign military bases and embassys. Total cost of those three items, sometimes called the War on Terrorism, has been slightly under 1.2 trillion, but that is for a period of ten years. Total Federal spending for that 10 year period was about $32 trillion. The War on Terrorism therefore represents about 3.8% of Federal spending from late July 2001 to late July 2011. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Jack the Sailor Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:20 PM PDQ's claim that "wars" alone caused the budget problem is not supported by fact. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: olddude Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:25 PM It will be a world wide shit storm if they default ... Not just for this country. All oil exports to all countries is US dollar based. It is the world standard of currency much like the Spanish piece of eight was. I suspect we will lose a heck of a lot more than just political fights and parties. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:28 PM What is Obama's Plan??? Unless you a FOXhead then you know that he has proposed $4T deficit reductions over 10 years with $3T in spending cuts and $1T in increased taxes... I mean, this has been reported in no less that 4000 newspapers accroos the country and one every credible television news station... If anyone out there says they don't know the plan then they are either... ...a pathological LIAR or... ...got their heads so far up FOX unNews butt that you could light a quarter stick 4 feet away and not hear it... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: dick greenhaus Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:33 PM THe Hose Republicans are threatening to renege on paying for the things----the Bush Tax Cuts, Two Wars and the Big Pharm Swindle---that they voted for in the first place. THe debt ceiling has NOTHING to do with future spending or reduction of same. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Greg F. Date: 27 Jul 11 - 06:26 PM The Republicans in the House of Representatives have passed two bills, and both of them raised the debt limit. Yes, Douggie-Boy, but what ELSE did the bills do in addition? Guess you don't want to keep receiving your Social Security or Medicare. So how in the world could anyone believe the Republicans are to blame for the current mess? Because the majority of Republicans don't have the guts to tell the minority TeaBagger ignorant lunatics driving the bills ptresented to take a freakin' hike and present a reasonable bill? Why won't the Democrats compromise? 1. They have. On several issues. Yopur question is better directed at Boner and the TeaBaggers. 2. Because they are aware that the Reagan-Bush-Bush tax cuts CAUSED the situation we are now in & that revenues need to be restored as part of the package to the levels they were before Voodoo Economics screwed tthings up. Glad to see, Douggie, that you still swallow & regurgitate FOX bullshit as a matter of course. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 27 Jul 11 - 07:16 PM The Republicans have no choice but kiss Tea Party ass and that means, "Kill the fucking government"... Period... End of discussion... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Sawzaw Date: 27 Jul 11 - 07:20 PM Who or what destroyed Greece's credit? We can learn from examples. "he has proposed $4T deficit reductions" Like closing Guantanamo. Like putting debates on Cspan. Like putting all bills on the internet for 5 days for public scrutiny. Like lowering health care costs. Like keeping unemployment below 9%. He has proposed a lot of things that did not happen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Janie Date: 27 Jul 11 - 07:44 PM I am absolutely disgusted with the whole lot, though somewhat less disgusted with Obama than the rest. Wasn't really disgusted with him at all until he spent the 1st half of his address Monday night being a political hack, only switching over to statesmanship in the 2nd half of the address. Not skillful. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 27 Jul 11 - 11:40 PM gnu suggested that their could be a less than obvious conspiracy to make someone some big money. The Gold market could make 25 cents on the dollar , if you sold in time once it settled down. I noticed that the Senate Hearings on the BOnd and Security Rating Agenices weren't asked much about Credit raters collusion to give junk bundled mortgages and derivitives and credit default swaps AAA ratings. Instead talk turned to thier actually threatening to lower America's rating even if we do pass a debt ceiling. WHo the fuck are they? You can bet with threats like that they hope to have more people currying thier favor with bribes, slush funds, junkets...Whadda bunch of lieing greedy mother fuckers. If Obama saves the world with an emergency action I can already see FOX types hyperventilating as they cry for impeachment and treason and dictator ad infinitum. Go ahead Impeach him. The Senate will throw it out. The right wing court is gonna reverse the decision to throw the world economy in the toilet??? I don't think so. Meanwhile every contractor, every administrator and beaureaucrat does not have the slightest idea who or how anyone is going to be paid. I bet the heart attack rates go up in DC this weekend. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 27 Jul 11 - 11:42 PM HEy I GOT IT Maybe some repubs bought some credit default swaps from AIG, BETTING AGAINST AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They will make trillions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Jul 11 - 11:47 PM It might have helped, if president Obama ever ran as much as a lemonade stand. That being said, Bush's unfunded war hasn't helped much either. In any event, the guys who will set the policy(of which Obama has NONE),will be the bankers, multi-national, and globalist..not either party...so, come on, try to get your heads out of the partisan party boxes. These last administrations, are nothing but shills for the decisions that are made, circumnavigating anything remotely resembling the will of the people, for the people, or by the people! How much more obvious does this have to get, before some of you get the idea to 'hop aboard the clue train'?!?! Sorry, if that insults your pet party..but it IS the Truth! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 28 Jul 11 - 12:01 AM See More About: national debt debt ceiling Obama government waste federal budget process Congress has tinkered with the debt ceiling, the statutory limit on amount of money the United States government is authorized to borrow to meet its legal obligations, a grand total of 78 times since 1960 - 49 times under Republican presidents and 29 times under Democratic presidents. In modern history, Ronald Reagan oversaw the largest number of debt ceiling increases, and George W. Bush approved a near doubling of the borrowing cap during his two terms in office. Here's a look at the debt ceiling under modern U.S. presidents. 1. Debt Ceiling Under Obama The debt ceiling has been raised on three occasions under President Barack Obama. The debt ceiling was $11.315 trillion when the Democrat was sworn into office in January 2009 and increased by nearly $3 trillion or 26 percent by summer 2011, to $14.294 trillion. See also: Did Obama Double the National Debt? Under Obama the debt ceiling increased: by $789 billion to $12.104 trillion in February 2009, Obama's first year in office, under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act; by $290 billion to $12.394 trillion ten months later, in December 2009; and by $1.9 trillion to $14.294 trillion two months later, in February 2010. 2. Debt Ceiling Under Bush The White House The debt ceiling was raised on seven occasions during President George W. Bush's two terms in office, from $5.95 trillion in 2001 to nearly double that, $11.315 trillion, in 2009 - an increase of $5.365 trillion or 90 percent. Under Bush the debt ceiling increased: by $450 billion to $6.4 trillion in June 2002; by $984 billion to $7.384 trillion 11 months later, in May 2003; by $800 billion to $8.184 trillion 18 months later, in November 2004; by $781 billion to $8.965 trillion 16 months later, in March 2006; by $850 billion to $9.815 trillion 18 months later, in September 2007; by $800 billion to $10.615 trillion 10 months later, in July 2008; and by $700 billion to $11.315 trillion three months later, in October 2008. 3. Debt Ceiling Under Clinton The debt ceiling was raised on four occasions during President Bill Clinton's two terms, from $4.145 trillion when he took office in 1993 to $5.95 trillion when he left the White House in 2001 - an increase of $1.805 trillion or 44 percent. See also: National Debt Versus Federal Deficit Under Clinton the debt ceiling increased: by $225 billion to $4.37 trillion in April 1993; by $530 billion to $4.9 trillion four months later, in August 1993; by $600 billion to $5.5 trillion two years and seven months later, in March 1996; and by $450 billion to $5.95 trillion 17 months later, in August 1997. 4. Debt Ceiling Under Bush The debt ceiling was raised on four occasions during President George H.W. Bush's one term, from $2.8 trillion when he took office in 1989 to $4.145 trillion when he left the White House in 1993 - an increase of $1.345 trillion or 48 percent. Under Bush the debt ceiling increased: by $70 billion to $2.87 trillion in August 1989; by $252.7 billion to $3.1227 trillion three months later, in November 1989; by $107.3 billion to $3.23 trillion 11 months later, in October 1990; and by $915 billion to $4.145 trillion one month later, in November 1990. 5. Debt Ceiling Under Reagan Hulton Archive The debt ceiling was raised on 17 occasions under President Ronald Reagan, nearly tripling from $935.1 billion to $2.8 trillion. Under Reagan the debt ceiling was raised to: $985 billion in February 1981; $999.8 billion in September 1981; $1.0798 trillion September 1981; $1.1431 trillion in June 1982; $1.2902 trillion in September 1982; $1.389 trillion in May 1993; $1.49 trillion in November 1983; $1.52 trillion in May 1984; $1.573 trillion in July 1984; $1.8238 trillion in October 1984; $1.9038 trillion in November 1985; $2.0787 trillion in December 1985; $2.111 trillion in August 1986; $2.3 trillion in October 1986; $2.32 trillion in July 1987; $2.352 trillion in August 1987; and $2.8 trillion in September 1987 Just in case 'Facts' interest anyone out there! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 28 Jul 11 - 07:29 AM Just one problem with the numbers, GfinS... The December, '09 deficit wa still Bush's last budget... Not Obama's... That's the part that the right refuses to admit... Bush left yet another exploding deficit with his last budget which was in place before Obama was sworn in... Reality is that Obama actually cut the annual deficit by $100B from Bush's last one of $1.4T to $1.3T... But I reckon we don't need to stenkin' facts cluttering up the discussion... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 28 Jul 11 - 07:44 AM Under Reagan it was raised 18 times. Today; THE YEN SURGES and the dollar falls. Who is seriously hurt by this already? Japan. Today more dollars will be chasing the Yen. In DC the symbolic kabuki performances continue. The real deadline was in May yet tea types question the Aug 2 validity as a dealine. Senator McCain came back to life yesterday and said on the floor of the Senate that the 6th month old Republican House members are BIZZARO ! He went futher to say that, "these new members are so misinformed that they believe that when Sen Reid TABLED the house bill which included changing the COnstitution of the United States of America, that tea partiers believe that means they can now ammend the bill and get it passed. That is unfair, that is not true, that is not reality" One really dumb house repub said "I will never vote to raise the debt ceiling, I, uh, want to lower it" I was thinking that House leader Boehner should invite the tea party members to a dinner at the Four Seasons, sneak out the back door and have a waiting quorum of the house to pass the usual one page debt ceiling increase bill and give it to the Senate and signed by Obama in 15 minutes, enough time to get back to the dinner and have dessert with the Tea Party Congressmen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jul 11 - 07:45 AM As it happened, from the ages of 7 to 13 young Barry Obama was a lemon stand organizer. He scouted locations, gave speeches about sugar ratio and talked to customers and supplies alike generally rising the quality and profitability of the Oahu lemonade experience. Then Barry went on to middle school and started organizing the paper carriers. Then the big bottlers came in with their "tea" and had a party. Police were bought off. Cut rate Arnold Palmer was everywhere and The Hard stuff (Mike's Hard Lemonade) was showing up in unsavory places. A corporate sponsored crackdown was instituted when the GOP rigged the health board elections. They all drank the Koolaid because of the high fructose corn syrup subsidies. Artificially enhanced lemon like citric acid flavoring became king. The consequences are only now becoming apparent in the high incidence of mouth cooties. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Greg F. Date: 28 Jul 11 - 08:56 AM Hey Douiggie! Check it out- Editorial - New York Times A Denial of Reality Published: July 26, 2011 How can so many Republican lawmakers justify pushing their country toward catastrophic default just to score ideological points? The answer can be found in their statements and writings: They are constructing an alternative reality far different from that of most Americans. The Treasury Department, which keeps the government bankbook, set the Aug. 2 deadline, but they say it cannot be trusted because it is an arm of the Obama administration. Representative Joe Walsh, a freshman from Illinois, recorded an instantly notorious video in which he accused President Obama of "lying" about the dangers of default. "There's plenty of money to pay off our debt and cover all of our Social Security obligations," he said, without saying where all these billions might be hidden. Representative Michele Bachmann, the Tea Partier running for president, went even further, saying there would be no default at all because the government would always find a way to pay the interest on its debt. Her level of disbelief in any statement made by the White House is so complete that she disregarded the possibility that the global financial system could impose its own devastating downgrade on the government's obligations. Mrs. Bachmann's denial of economic reality puts her at the far-right end of the House, alongside eight other Republicans who voted against the "Cut, Cap and Balance Act" last week because it was too liberal..... Complete article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/opinion/27wed2.html?src=rechp |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: pdq Date: 28 Jul 11 - 11:24 AM "...alongside eight other Republicans who voted against the "Cut, Cap and Balance Act" last week because it was too liberal..." ~ New York Slimes So why doesn't the Senate just pass the Cap, Cut and Balance Act and be done with it? The bill needs just four more votes from Democrats to pass. Answer: Democrats like Obama, Shumer and Reid have said that anything proposed by a Republican is "dead on arrival". |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 28 Jul 11 - 11:45 AM The goal behind all the right wing members of Congress is to "Starve the Beast". That is the old anarchist strategy of killing the Federal Government by monetary starvation. No money = no agencies like EPA, Education, Energy, FDA, SEC, FEMA, SS and all the rest. No agencies - no enforcemnt of laws, regulations and safeguards. Everyone with a bilion dollars could do as they please with impunity, as they essentially have been doing for 12 years, but on meth and steroids. The cut cap and balance for example when compared to the Ryan plan, goes 10 times farther. The Federal Government would not be able to respond to a catastrophe unless it was put into the budget prior to the diasaster. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HISTORIC BREAKING NEWS. It seems that Harry S Truman was the first President to unilaterally push through a debt Ceiling Bill! So it seems there is a precedence for a President to intervene. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 28 Jul 11 - 11:49 AM The "Cap, Cut and Balance Act" would put 50% of retired folks into poverty... Right now, we have 50% of our seniors living with less than $22,000 a year... What the Repubs bill would do is ***force*** draconian cuts in Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security... If, however, the Repubs would agree to allow the tax rates that were in place 30 years ago when the middle class's wages stagnated and close the tax loopholes that the corporations have put in place during that time frame then maybe we would have a basis for a discussion but to expect the working class, the poor and the elderly to absorb 100% of the3 sacrifice and the wealthy and corporations to continue munching down their free lunch is not only immoral but a formula for armed revolution... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 28 Jul 11 - 12:20 PM The 'greater good', 'social justice' and the 'social contract' are now spoken of in terms of a disease, an evil and sinister plot. Much of this attitude is shaped directly from 20 years of right wing radio and FOX. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST,Songbob Date: 28 Jul 11 - 01:46 PM All Congressmen and Senators take an oath of office, to "preserve, protect, and defend" the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution, in its 14th Amendment, says that the public debt of the United States cannot be denied. So voting to default -- failing to raise the debt ceiling -- is by definition UnConstitutional. It follows then that each and every Congressman that votes to send the country into default is in violation of his/her oath of office and should be removed forthwith. Bob |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 28 Jul 11 - 01:47 PM Good one Bob. But who would be left to preside over the mass impeachment? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST,Songbob Date: 28 Jul 11 - 01:58 PM And this whole fooferaw is a smokescreen anyway. If the Republican'ts want to cut spending, let 'em pass a budget that does so. Oh, yeah... they did pass the Ryan budget, which voucherized Medicare and slashed a lot of other expenditures, then sent it off to the Senate to die. As they knew it would. It was a safe vote -- vote your ideology, then let it wander off into limbo, while you get back to the important things, like defunding Planned Parenthood, accompanied by statements "not intended to be factual". Republican'ts are really good at running for office, but shitty at running an office. Politics, yes; governing, not so much. And the old saw about polics being "the art of the possible" goes out the window in the highly-charged atmosphere these cretins seem to like. The Republican't approach is closer to a fringe party in Italy, or some other parliamentary system, where narrow special interests get served by a narrow, special-interest party. I don't want the US to turn into Italy, thank you very much. Big-tent parties where you can have wide variance of opinion suits me much better than what they seem to be promoting -- ideological purity, "get your ass in line" discipline, talking point recitation in place of serious discussion (you get a lot of that here, from a few posters), and narrow, narrow views on what the country needs. We're going into a period of austerity when the economy needs a shot in the arm. God help us. Bob |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jul 11 - 02:30 PM The Republicans have no mandate or public support for the Ryan Budget, or for the cut and cap thing. The Democrats have tried to compromise. The Republicans have refused all compromise. The Democrats cannot be blackmailed into denying the will of the people. The economy will lose big time. The argument that the Tea Party is putting forth, that we have to destroy the economy to save it will not prevail. The Republicans will lose this battle, now and in 2012. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: pdq Date: 28 Jul 11 - 02:43 PM CNN polls shows Cap, Cut and Balance has the support of 67% of the American people. Obama and the DNC see predictions that the Dems will lose another 60+ House seats and probably lose the Senate in 2012. Obama is also toast unless he can shut down the US government and blame the Republicans. It is not working as well as it did when Clinton did it and successfully blamed Gingrich. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jul 11 - 02:52 PM CNN polls shows Cap, Cut and Balance has the support of 67% of the American people. No. That is a lie, capping cutting and balancing has the support of the American people. Not the specific Cap, Cut and Balance bill. I support capping cutting and balancing. But it is economic suicide to put it into law. Do you want the whole country to be run like California? The Federal government and the markets need the flexibility to deal with a cyclical economy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Greg F. Date: 28 Jul 11 - 03:42 PM So why doesn't the Senate just pass the Cap, Cut and Balance Act and be done with it? Perhaps because its a piece of shit, PeeDee? The "Cap, Cut and Balance Act" would put 50% of retired folks into poverty... C'mon, Bobert - PeeDee doesn't give two shits about that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: gnu Date: 28 Jul 11 - 03:53 PM "THe Hose Republicans..." Hahahahahaaa! Bunch a hosers eh? Good typo/F-slip! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Sawzaw Date: 29 Jul 11 - 12:53 AM House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi saw her wealth rise considerably last year, from just more than $20 million to $35.2 million establishing Pelosi's place as one of the wealthiest lawmakers in the country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Jack the Sailor Date: 29 Jul 11 - 07:55 AM Then we ought to be taxing her eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 29 Jul 11 - 02:50 PM Tax the filthy rich, no matter how squeaky clean they look. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 29 Jul 11 - 03:12 PM The big lies FOX hopes everyone will believe are [THE BIG LIE} The PResident did not take control of the debt ceiling crises! AKA (His leading from behind is cowardly) and He never proposed a plan or budget) Well kids, it is illegal according to the Constitution for the President to pass legislation, be laws or budget. ONLY the House of Representatives and Senate may do that. However once a disaster happens, a President may take emergency actions to deal with the crises. To respond to a world wide default of the dollar, it would be a day late and a trillion dollars short. BIG LIE The President made this whole mess! Boehner announced on the floor of the Senate in January that they were going to use the Debt Ceiling issue to hold the President powerless to accept new sweeping changes. McConnel in the Senate announced on the Senate floor that the first duty of Republicans was to make the President fail at re election, no matter what they had to do. BIGGEST LIE OF ALL Cutting spending in the USA will create jobs. sorry children but the less money there is, the less spending there is and hiring anyone at that point, would be the last thing (the job creater) would do. however... The (job creator) is willing to hire Chinese and expand foriegn markets. No need to invest in a depressed American market, since no one is spending, no one is buying. PS Yesterday I said that Bachmann would at some point call Obama a dictator. She did today. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 29 Jul 11 - 10:28 PM I'm loving all this... Repubs are going to get swept back out in 2012... What a stupid and suicidal strategy they have followed... Bye... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 29 Jul 11 - 10:49 PM The whole thing is a goat fuck .... democrats and republicans. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 29 Jul 11 - 10:55 PM Bye, Repubs... This was a terrible strategy on your part and like '96 is going to cost ya'll in 2012... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 30 Jul 11 - 01:29 AM This is an excerpt from another post..from me... ".....In regards to the Tea Party,..it won't matter anyway..as I said in another post dealing with the debt ceiling, what is going to come out of this, is the U.S., with all its 'two party compromises', will end up with the government handing over receivership of the debt to an 'international, globalist banking concern'....and everybody will go away 'happy'....and go away, with absolute rule, and control of our country, and under their rules. This IS and will be the result of the corruption of our 'representative' government. We have, for sometime now, had our 'representatives' not representing the 'will of the people'...but rather, acting as brokers, in regards to the 'laws' they back, and for what reason.....the highest bidder. The Tea Party rank and file is mostly comprised of regular folks who thought they had nowhere else to turn. The Kosh's merely cashed in, with their efforts to gain control of them. As it stands now, there is NO group truly representing the people.....and by the way, as a country, we have already collapsed....and have not been informed fully, as of yet! Just stay tuned, and watch...you'll see! Meanwhile, I'm sure many of those lagging behind, will still be pointing fingers, at one party or the other...as designed...to keep reality from being addressed! As it stands now, we are in a world of hurt, and the ONLY thing keeping it afloat, is whatever 'remnants' of 'hope' you can muster up!.....until it's used up!! You'll see!!!" GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Greg F. Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:18 AM Repubs are going to get swept back out in 2012... You're getting way ahead of yourself, Bobert. Remember: Always bet on stupidity & you'll never lose yer money. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: artbrooks Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:54 AM The Repubs. never expected the Cap, Cut and Balance Bill to go anywhere - maybe if they had they would have taken the time to construct a better piece of legislation. Its only purpose is to influence the 2012 election. The requirement that Congress sends a balanced budget constitutional amendment to the states for ratification allows them to point at anyone who votes against it as being opposed to a balanced budget, and the fact that it only raises the debt ceiling enough to get us to this time next year, guaranteeing a similar fight then, assures that anyone in their right mind will vote against it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: saulgoldie Date: 30 Jul 11 - 12:16 PM And from The Borowitz Report (we need all the laughs we can get to get through this!) Fox News Reports: Obama Starting to Wonder Why He Moved to U.S. President Nostalgic for Land of Birth, Fox Says WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report) – According to the Fox News Channel, President Barack Obama is so weary of the debt ceiling stalemate in Congress that he is beginning to wonder why he moved to the United States in the first place. Fox News anchor Shepard Smith broke the story today, reporting that "sources close to the President say he's increasingly nostalgic for the land of his birth." "To someone like President Obama, this wrangling in Congress must seem very foreign," said Mr. Smith. "In Kenya, debt ceilings are raised automatically by the village elders, who then celebrate with a ceremonial feast of cabbage, mangoes and goat." While Mr. Smith stopped short of saying that Mr. Obama planed to leave Washington and return to his native Kenya, "his birth certificate does allow him to return at any time he sees fit." "As he sees Congress push the United States ever closer to default, who can blame Mr. Obama for longing for simpler times, roaming free on the savanna?" Mr. Smith reported. In other debt ceiling news, by unanimous vote the House of Representatives passed a bill raising Speaker of the House John Boehner's medication. As for the debt ceiling negotiations, they are "right on schedule," according to the ancient Mayans. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 11 - 04:07 PM I am almost at the point where a "default" might be the best option... It then allows Obama to choose what gets paid and not Congress which will have shot it wad and in doing so marginalized itself... Either that or Section 4 of the 14th amendment... This filibuster is the most immature legislative trick I think I can remember going back, oh, forever... And most of us have witnessed a lot of trickery in Congress over the last 4 decades... The minority does not deserve to be rewarded for trying to destroy the American economy... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Charley Noble Date: 30 Jul 11 - 07:53 PM GfS- Thanks for your review of increases in the debt ceiling and who was president at the time. Of course, the Republicans have little interest in such history if it doesn't fit into their theme and message. If their draconian plan is actually passed and signed into law, I hope they'll accept responsibility for the cuts they will be imposing, but I doubt it. They'll just claim that it was Obama and the spendthrift Democrats that spun us back into the ditch of recession. Leaping lizards!!! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 11 - 07:59 PM You are right... 94 cents of every dollar that the Repubs now want to renig on were handed to Obama the day he took office... Almost half from George W Bush... How do you spell "dead beats"??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: pdq Date: 30 Jul 11 - 07:59 PM We have been in a Recession continously for the past three years! Obama has personally taken charge of spending $2 trillion dollars all of which went on the National Debt. The only thing he proved conclusively is the Keynesian Economics does not work! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:04 PM Charley Noble: "GfS-Thanks for your review of increases in the debt ceiling and who was president at the time....." You are VERY welcome! If you noted, after my post, one certain numbskull, didn't think 'numbers were important'????????? I wonder what he does when the guy at the music store tells him his favorite strings are now $19.95 a set....tell him, "Oh, you must have it wrong, give it to me free, I'm entitled to them..besides, numbers aren't important!" Anyway, I try to be on the side of the truth, no matter which way it falls!..Again, you're welcome! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Jack the Sailor Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:14 PM It doesn't work when half the "stimulus" id "tax cuts." Stimulus doesn't work when the money goes straight into the bank or investment in China. No where did Keynes say that you are supposed to stimulate the economy by building houses people can't afford and lying to investors. That is the cause of the recession. There is no fix for it any time soon. But an end to tax breaks would help. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Greg F. Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:47 PM The only thing he proved conclusively is the Keynesian Economics does not work! Gotchs, PeeDee- and Reaganomics, a.k.a. voodoo economics, a.k.a. supply side economics does work, right? Jesus wept, man. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:01 PM How can you be so misinformed, pdq??? First, the only ****annual**** budget deficit that is on Obama is 2010 which came in at $100B less than Bush's last on (2009)... 2009 annual budget deficit (Bush) = $1.4T 2010 annual budget deficit (Obama) + $1.3T Secondly, every leading economist said that the stimulus needed to be on the plus side of $1T... Some were recommending as much as $1.3T... All Obama could get from an obstructionists Repubs was $700B with $400B of them going into tax cuts... That's not exactly pure Keynesian... Heck it's not even KeynesianLite... It ended up being another failed "tax cut"... The other $300B went into shovel ready projects... Of course the right wing bloggers say that that $300B produced no jobs... That is what Hitler referred to as the BIG LIE... Drive down just about any US highway in America and you'll see bridges being rebuilt with that money.... Tell ya what, pdq... Take you a ride down US 29 thru Virginia and North Carolina and stop at any of those construction projects which are still being funded with the stimulus and stop on the side of the road and go run your theories to the construction workers who are got a pay check this week rather than an unemployment check... Yeah, do that and then come back and report what a failure Heynesian economics are... No, don't do that... Please do that!!! Economists said $1T plus... Repubs held it down to less than 1/3rd that... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:16 PM And, pdq, here's a few other realities: 1. Bush handed over an ***unfunded*** and active war in Iraq 2. Bush handed over an ***unfunded*** and active war in Afghanistan 3. Bush handed over over $1T in ***unfunded*** tax cuts 4. Bush handed over an economy on the brink of total collapse and worst since the Great Depression 5. Bush handed over a Congress with it's Republican members saying openly that their #1 goal was to get Obama defeated in 2012... Not the health of the country or jobs These are realities that ya'll on the right want to wall-paper over as if the rest of *US* listening to your ***BIG LIES*** have "moron" tattooed on out foreheads... Hey, we on the other side might have been born at night but it wasn't last night... Try some arguments based on reality and less on ***BIG LIES***, distortions, quotes from paid right winged bloggers, hate of Obama and then maybe we can have a discussion of policies based on reality and not right wing mythology... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: pdq Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:24 PM It seems that every fact I put out calls for half a dozen rebuttals. Why rebut a fact? OK, here is another fact to yell about: Fact: After the Great Stock Market Crash of of 1929, many advisors recomended that Hoover follow the ideas of a new hot shot economist from England. Hoover did. His name was Maynard Keynes. I don't feel like doing all the work for you, so just look up "pump priming" or "priming the pump". It started under Hoover and led to a full Depression, not just a recession. Then look up what FDR's Treasury Secretary had to say about the results. His name was Morgantgau. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:27 PM Maybe because they are not facts??? What got *US* out of the Great Recession, pdq??? One sentence, por favor, will do and just about every non-flat-earth economist on the planet will give the same answer... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: artbrooks Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:33 PM Was that the Great Depression? Not one sentence, Bobert - one word: war. BTW, once upon a time, I was an economist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: gnu Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:41 PM War? Noooo???!!! No way we are going to war. That would mean we would have had to have spent years battle training troops and field testing weapons in countries that were... oh, yeah, right... been there, done that... cover yer heads and duck yer tails... this one ain't gonna be fun... first one that's gonna see deaths on the NA continent. Surprise, surprise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:42 PM There isn't a one word answer for that question, artbrooks, but there is a universally held understanding what it was that broke the Great Depression and it was World War II which was the ultimate exercise on Keynesian economics (by default)... BTW, your question was unfair... Mine wasn't... As an economist, you should understand that... That's what we learned... The spending that FDR did and the programs he created gave people "hope" and few buck in their pockets but the spending forced on *US* from the war is waht really broke the back of the Great Depression... You disagree??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Little Hawk Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:43 PM Yes, the Second World War got the USA out of the depression. Massive employment, massive mobilization, massive job creation...no bombing or invasion of mainland America to mess things up, relatively small losses in American lives (compared to most combatant nations), massive war production. All you need to get out of a depression is a really large and definitely winnable war fought entirely on other people's land and paid for by other people's gold and other people's devastation! (meaning that of the UK and Europe) That window of opportunity doesn't exist now. Such a profitable BIG war is no longer feasible for America...or anyone else, mostly due to the nature of today's strategic weaponry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: pdq Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:47 PM Absolutely correct. End of the Great Depression: December 7th, 1942. Pearl Harbor attack by the Japanese. WWII. End of story. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:55 PM Yes, it does, LH... We just don't have the political courage to do it... Think about it this way... WW II produced very little consumer goods for Americans... It produced a lot of stuff that blew the heck up??? Now, if you take the same courage and desire and put that effort and those resources to things like sustainable energy, planet friendly housing, high speed rail, planned work-live-play communities then we could stay busy for decades created a world where humans live in harmony with the planet... It's about will, not wars... We have been in endless wars since WW II and that modle just saps resources and lives... In the words of the late, great Waylon Jennings, "We need a change"... I mean, a real one and that is going to involved a complete change in the way we think, the way we solve problems, the way we live and it's going to take people of courage to insist on it... But it isn't impossible... It is very possible and I would argue that all we are doing now is putting off the inevitable and that one day, if mankind is to continue on, we'll have to make those choices... Right now, we have folks who rather than move forward want to marginalize government at a time when we need it the most... The corporation have shown they have no intere3st or courage in anything buy making money... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:02 PM So, pdq, WW II was the ultimate case of Keynesian economics!!! So, why is it some misguided idea now... No, don't answer that... It isn't!!! We haven't hardly given it a chance to work... Economists told *US* to put $1TPlus into the economy... The way we did it in WW II... We put $300B in and another $400B in tax cuts, half of which didn't get spent but went in the black hole of the rich... No, Keynesian economics didn't get an honest chance... It was a set up to fail so the right wing could say, "It doesn't work"... That is reality... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: pdq Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:02 PM Fact: The Great Depression ended on December 7th, 1941 with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. The sleeping giant awoke and everybody got focused on the same goal. It could happen again, but very unlikely. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:05 PM Why did the war end the Great Depression, pdq??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:14 PM This just in... Apple has $77B on hand... The U.S. Treasury??? $74B... Ouch... The 20 tax cuts we have given the rich since 1955 are taking a toll... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:26 PM Ummmm, not to seem impatient, pdq, but the ball is in your court... How did WW II end the Depression??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: pdq Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:33 PM "The sleeping giant awoke and everybody got focused on the same goal." ~ me Note that I amswered the question before it was asked. I ain't pdq for nuttin'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:48 PM So, not to to be assuming anything here, pdq, but if I interpret what you are saying is that in terms of economic theories, you reject the possibility that Keynesian economics had nothin' to do with ending the Great depression with the massive infusion of borrowed money for the war effort??? Hmmmmm??? Very strange logic... So you take a bunch of your human and natural resources and blow them up and kill a bunch of other folks is what ended the Great Depression but had nothin' to do with the fact that people had jobs and were getting paid??? Uh huh... There is something seriously wrong with your logic and your understanding of economics... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: pdq Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:56 PM Look up what FDR's Secretary of Treasury Morganthau said about "pump priming". He said it was a failure. That was about 1938. If you want to inform yourself, look it up. Not much elase I can do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:58 PM BTW, if you'd like to continue this ***very important*** discussion then I'll be back when I can get back... This idea that Keynesian economics is a flawed model is a bogus right winged PR story... It hasn't been given a real chance since 1941 when it was last employed and worked exactly how Keyes drew it up... The right hates it because it means investing our energy in a government that brought us the interstate highway system & a man on the moon rather than the failed models of the Enrons, BPs and Wall Streets... Uh huh... Guess again... I gotta go to bed... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Little Hawk Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:59 PM I'm not saying things can't be turned around now, Bobert. They can. Just not with another big war as in the case of WWII, that's all. That method won't work this time. To turn things around this time you need a lot of sustainable new jobs for ordinary Americans...invest money in Main Street, not Wall Street. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Jack the Sailor Date: 31 Jul 11 - 02:41 AM People have to live differently, sustainably. My 28 year old step son is doing it. A lot of young people are. Get the dollar down a bit more. We'll make more things here. Buy less foreign energy. Make more of our own. Tax the rich, pay down the debt. Make companies in the US pay taxes in the US on the profits made here. Even better make it state by state. Make GM and Toyota pay income taxes in California on income made selling their goods in California. Things will turn around. We will prosper. Our average life styles will take a hit. But per capita income could drop quite a bit and we would still be pretty comfortable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 31 Jul 11 - 04:37 AM Bobert: " This just in... Apple has $77B on hand... The U.S. Treasury??? $74B... Ouch... The 20 tax cuts we have given the rich since 1955 are taking a toll..." ...and add a few more into the mix, who have a global agenda, and use 'their' banks....and who can afford to buy the laws???.. ..as I said a few posts ago, we don't have 'representatives' of the people, we have brokers in the Houses, who deal in legislation!...Oh, and do you think they just might have passed laws and loopholes, to help get their 'clients' in position???..as they are now???...Well how the fuck do you think they got that big????...???... ....and all this time you thought they only cared about a Democratic Party, or Republican ideology that they stood for????.......THAT'S THE SHIT THEY WERE FEEDING YOU!!!!.....not their clients!...You got the 'cover story'!.....and you've been spouting it ever since!! Wake up! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 11 - 09:54 AM That is my point, LH... No, we don't need another big war or even a new and shiny smallish war, for that matter... What we do need is to get our heads wrapped around what it will take to get out country humming again... The corporations have no interst or motivation in helping here so count them out unless your model is to "privatize" everything down to charging Little Suzie for riding her trike on the sidewalk in front of her house and charging her parents for the air that Little Suzie breathes... Heck, why not privatize gravity, too... Yup, don't want yer shit floating around the house (you included) then pay up your Acme Gravity, Inc bill and we'll be out in a couple days to restore your service... I mean, privatization is a mean spirited "wet dream" of the rich... But never mind wet dream and gravity... No, I take it back, we do need a war... We need to declare war on stupid policies that are put in place by those who will profit rather than sound policies that are beneficial for the entire nation... The interstate highway system is the poster child of what government can do when we have a culture and mentality that we need to do things that benefit everyone... This war could include some things that have worked in the past such as the WPA or the CCC where unemployed people will be paid to work on our crumbling infrastructure... But we don't have to follow that model... We could just use existing companies and new start-up companies which the Repubs might find more palatable... But this idea that we need to cut spending during a recovery is flawed in every respect... This is garbage in = garbage out thinking... Last month the private sector added 58,000 jobs... Not great but beat a poke in the eye... But state and local governments had to lay off 40,000 workers... Hey, one don't have to be Menza material to see that, at that rate, the US will be right back in another recession with those kinda of policies... Time for some real Keyensian-ism... Let's go to war to win... Not go to make the rich richer while the working class and American infrastructure continue to crumble... I don't buy pdq's thinking that we have give given the Keyensian model a fair shake... Economists told *US* that the minimum amount it would take to get *US* out of the recession and humming was $1T+... Because the Repubs stamped their feet and had yet another hissy fit all Obama was able to get was $700B and of that only $300B in stimulus and the other $400B in what??? Yup, more fucking tax cuts??? We heed sanity here... If these same hissy fit Repubs got cancer they would seek out the brightest and best doctors yet when it comes to the Nation's over economy they follow the advice of hacks and people who are only interested in gaming the system??? That is insanity.... Nothing more and nothing less... Pure insanity!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: gnu Date: 31 Jul 11 - 01:47 PM So they have delayed the test vote. It'll all be over close to midnight but they gotta have one last big party on the taxpayer's dime. As for war(s), there can be no default if they are gonna chuck cruise missiles at Syria for storming Hama.... 80 dead. As I said on the other thread... wish I had a whack of extra cash late last week. I'd'a bought greenbacks at $1.063 and made good money come October. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 31 Jul 11 - 01:58 PM He STILL thinks it's a matter of party politics! Is someone paying you? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST,biff Date: 31 Jul 11 - 02:11 PM truthfully I do not understand any of the economics. just get along and help others. tax the rich. nuff said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 31 Jul 11 - 02:12 PM Time out! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Don Firth Date: 31 Jul 11 - 04:32 PM The Great Depression did NOT end with World War II. It was over well before then. This fiction that Roosevelt ended the Depression by starting the war is pure revisionist history, started by William Henry Chamberlin and a cadre of Right Wing Roosevelt haters, and picked up gleefully, years later, by the conspiracy theorists. Japan had been ravaging China (anybody hear of "The Rape of Nanking?") for many years, determined to rule Asia and "turn the Pacific into a Japanese lake," and Germany was out to take over Europe and beyond. The United States, determined to stay out of it, participated to the extent of such things as the Lend-Lease program to Great Britain, and putting an embargo on selling arms to aggressor countries such as Germany, Italy, and Japan, but that was it. Some people (such as Chamberlin) like to cite THAT as FDR's authorizing "a blatant breach of neutrality," thus precipitating us into the war, but the vast majority of Americans, although not wanting to get involved in the hostilities, were appalled at what was going on overseas, and applauded the Lend-Lease program and the embargoes. Then, Japan sucker-punched the United States. Japan sent a diplomatic mission to Washington to talk "peace" and to negotiate for easing our ban on selling them strategic materials. And while the talks were going on, Pearl Harbor was bombed and most of the American Pacific fleet was destroyed. We had been "sneak-attacked." In fact, the Japanese didn't know how much damage they had actually done. It was revealed later that we had been rendered so defenseless in the Pacific that if the Japanese had then invaded the West Coast of the United States, they would have met little military or naval resistance. I don't seriousy believe that FDR would have really been the evil mastermind of something like THAT! Other than the embargo on strategic materials, we had done nothing to provoke it—except that we weren't cooperating sufficiently with the Axis Powers' plan for world conquest. In fact, WE were on the menu ALSO. I was pretty young at the time, but I was very much aware of what was going on, and since it was such a part of my childhood, I have since had a special interest in those events. And rather than hearing about it by sleeping through a high school history class, I REMEMBER what was going on back then and who was doing what to whom. Among other things, I remember my father and a lot of people we knew being out of work, and the happiness and relief when my dad got a job on a WPA road crew. Along with many other people we knew. Within a short time, there were jobs! Jobs other than WPA and CCC. Because those jobs had paid people. They had money to spend again, and they spent it because they HAD to, on things like food and rent. And with money beginning to circulate again, the economy improved almost miraculously. My dad was able to get back into is real profession and things were well on the way to good again. For us and for the whole country. FDR also started the Social Security program, which gave those over 65 a measure of security in their older years. It allowed them to retire rather than having to work 'til they dropped—and it ended "poor houses" and "poor farms" for the elderly. I remember that they called it "Old Age Pension." The elderly hated what it was called (so they changed it to "Social Security") but they were greatly relieved that they would no longer have to work themselves to death, live off their kids, or go to the poor house. And this was in the late Thirties, NOT after December 7th, 1941! Those who blithely pontificate that "FDR ended the Depression by starting World War II" have bought the long-standing Right Wing propaganda and simply ignored what REALLY brought it to an end. It was FDR's instituting the so-called "alphabet agencies" such as the WPA and CCC, which put people back to work and gave them paychecks that, as I said, they had to spend right away on things like food and rent that got the economy going again. And his putting regulatory agencies, like the Securities and Exchange Commission, into place to regulate Wall Street and the banks and stop the endless run of Ponzi schemes that precipitated the Depression in the first place. The Right Wing hated that! And they worked like beavers to either eliminate or render impotent those regulatory agencies. And they finally made it with Ronald Reagan. He either ended them or appointed executives from the businesses themselves to the agencies. [In my best Mr. Rogers voice: "Can you say 'Fox in charge of the chicken coop?'"] THAT is why we're in this mess today. And NOW, they want to kill Social Security and Medicare! What we need now is someone with a grasp of the situation, and the intelligence, charisma, and GUTS to do what FDR did. And no, not start a war. Haven't those of you who insist on mindlessly intoning the slanderous canard about FDR ending the Depression by starting a World War noticed? We're already IN a couple of wars!! How is THAT working for you? Don Firth P. S. I fully realize that I'm wasting my time here. People are very fond of glib, "I'm really, really clever because I know what's not in the history books!" Did it ever occur to you that the reason it's not in the history books is because it's simply not true? But, oh, we love our conspiracy theories far too much to ever let them go. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 11 - 04:38 PM Sorry, GfinS, but I have no clue as to what debate you are watching... The Repubs found themselves with a "free shot" at taking out some of the New Deal and they took it... The fact that the Dems realized that, yes, there are some seriously crazy people in the House who lied their way into office with promises of jobs and then stripped off their sheep clothing, pulled out their assault rifles and started firing at the New Deal is ***not*** evidence that both parties are the same... Lose that song from your repertoire... It's old, thread worn and sucks... And is an out right lie... And while you are at it take the blinders off and earplugs out and join 2011... This ain't 2000 anymore... Hasn't been for a long, long time... How long??? $7T worth of Bush's spending spree, that's how long... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 11 - 05:21 PM Actually, Don, like today's recovery the 30s did have growth... Just not robust as from '41 on... The WPA and CCC were 100% the correct things to do because a.) it gave people hope, b.) we got a lot of infrastructure built c.) it put people to work and d.) it got money into the economy... It was slowly gaining speed when the US entered (not started) WW II which required massive spending... That is my point... People are arguing that Keyes model is and was wrong but most real economists disagree... It is exactly what we need right now... If the private sector does its part and the public sector does its part that's like two engines pulling rather than one... Keynesian economics can get *US* out of this rut but you can't go on a cutting spree while using it ot it will fail every time... The Repubs know this and that is why they want as much $$$ out of government ***right now*** as they can get because they want as much unemployement as they can get going into next years elections... They really don't care if if hurts the country... This isn't just an opinion on my part... It's also the view of leading economists, Nobel Prize winning Paul Krugman, as well... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Richard Bridge Date: 31 Jul 11 - 05:43 PM I do see a parallel here. One group of neanderthals has shut down criticism of themselves here, and another bunch of neanderthals has ensured there will be no new taxes. America is broken. Time for a tabula rasa. Do what the Syrian people are doing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bill D Date: 31 Jul 11 - 09:08 PM So...they have 'almost' agreed on something.... which the extremists at both ends won't like at all... we shall see. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 11 - 09:26 PM I see it as a victory for Obama.... Now the Congressional committee will have to cut DoD spending... That's a start... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: dick greenhaus Date: 31 Jul 11 - 10:15 PM It seems that the GOP has succeeded in something they've been working on since the 1930s----cuts in Social Security. Details (I shudder to think) to follow. Probably a rejiggering of Cost OF Living indices, which can cost people depending on Social Security thousands a year. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: MarkS Date: 31 Jul 11 - 10:31 PM Unlikely to cost thousands, Dick, more likely to be in the hundreds range. Not exactly a cost, but more accurately described as a less than anticipated or forgone increase. Unpleasant though, no matter how you define it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 11 - 10:45 PM Per several news outlets: Obama underscored that point. He said that, if enacted, the agreement would mean "the lowest level of domestic spending since Dwight Eisenhower was president" more than a half century ago. And this is something to be PROUD of? We been sold down the fucking river, people. YTou ain't seen nothin yet! But everything's OK since the rich bastards and the multinational corporation still get their tax breaks, even if retirees and poor people can't eat or get the services they need. I'm ashamed to be a citizen of this sad excuse for a country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: catspaw49 Date: 31 Jul 11 - 11:26 PM Once again I find myself thinking of what Jim Kunen said in the 60's........"America......I love what it could be; I hate what it is." During the elections I kept saying that I didn't really trust Obama while many declared him the latest savior. He is the living proof that it matters little who holds an office, the methodology, the process, will control it all. Even the teabagger dicks failed to achieve all of their wants but the weakness of Barack Obama cannot but sadden many as we watched the sellout take place. Remember the 60's when we claimed someone had been "co-opted?" Look that up in the dictionary now and there will be a 9x12 glossy of Barry the Odious captioned "CO-OPTED MOTHERFUCKER." Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: dick greenhaus Date: 01 Aug 11 - 12:45 AM MArkS- When someone decides to pay me less than I've been guaranteed on a social insurance policy I've paid for over some 40 years, it's costing me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Aug 11 - 01:26 AM This July 11th article from Rolling Stone might shed some light on the issue: Obama Doesn't Want a Progressive Deficit Deal POSTED: July 11, 11:31 AM ET (written by Matt Taibbi for Rolling Stone) One expects the debt-ceiling mess to involve a lot of ostentatious chest-pounding on both sides, for despite the fact that this is a deadly serious issue – the fact that we're even considering incurring an intentional catastrophe via a default is incredible, a testament to the bottomless stupidity inherent in our political climate – this whole debate is primarily an exercise in political posturing. That Republicans are holding up what should be a routine, if unpleasant, decision to raise the debt ceiling in order to portray themselves as the uncompromising defenders of the budget-balancing faith (a howling idiocy in itself, given what went on during the Bush years) is obvious to most rational observers. It's the obvious play for the lame-duck party entering an election year, and they're playing it, with the requisite hysteria. But what is becoming equally obvious, to both sides, is that the Obama White House is using this same artificial calamity to pitch its own increasingly rightward tilt to voters in advance of the 2012 elections. It has been extremely interesting in the last weeks to see observers on both sides of the aisle make this point. Just yesterday, the inimitable New York Times conservative Ross Douthat listed Obama's not-so-secret rightward push as a the first in a list of reasons why the Republicans should dig in even more, instead of making a sensible deal: Barack Obama wants a right-leaning deficit deal. For months, liberals have expressed frustration with the president's deficit strategy. The White House made no effort to tie a debt ceiling vote to the extension of the Bush tax cuts last December. It pre-emptively conceded that any increase in the ceiling should be accompanied by spending cuts. And every time Republicans dug in their heels, the administration gave ground. The not-so-secret secret is that the White House has given ground on purpose. Just as Republicans want to use the debt ceiling to make the president live with bigger spending cuts than he would otherwise support, Obama's political team wants to use the leverage provided by those cra-a-a-zy Tea Partiers to make Democrats live with bigger spending cuts than they normally would support. Douthat makes this observation, then argues that the Republicans should recognize Obama's hidden motive and hold out for an even better deal. It will then be a race to see which party can abandon employment in favor of deficit reduction faster. He writes: Why? Because the more conservative-seeming the final deal, the better for the president's re-election effort. In that environment, Republicans have every incentive to push and keep pushing. Since any deal they cut will be used as an election-year prop in 2012, they need to make sure the president actually earns his budget-cutting bona fides. This is interesting because just last week, the liberal opposite of Douthat at the Times, Paul Krugman, came to the same conclusion: It's getting harder and harder to trust Mr. Obama's motives in the budget fight, given the way his economic rhetoric has veered to the right. In fact, if all you did was listen to his speeches, you might conclude that he basically shares the G.O.P.'s diagnosis of what ails our economy and what should be done to fix it. And maybe that's not a false impression; maybe it's the simple truth. One striking example of this rightward shift came in last weekend's presidential address, in which Mr. Obama had this to say about the economics of the budget: "Government has to start living within its means, just like families do. We have to cut the spending we can't afford so we can put the economy on sounder footing, and give our businesses the confidence they need to grow and create jobs." Krugman seems to believe that Obama has basically purged all of his real economic advisors and is doing what Bush did on foreign policy -- engaging in complex and portentous policy initiatives at the behest not of experts, but political advisors. Just as Bush had Karl Rove telling him when and how to launch military invasions and drop bombs on unsuspecting foreign human beings in order to establish electoral credentials, Obama might be playing chicken with the budget for the benefit of undecideds in Florida and Ohio: Some of what we're hearing is presumably coming from the political team, whose members seem to believe that a move toward Republican positions, reminiscent of former President Bill Clinton's "triangulation" in the 1990s, is the key to Mr. Obama's re-election. And Mr. Clinton did, indeed, rebound from a big defeat in the 1994 midterms to win big two years later. But some of us think that the rebound had less to do with his rhetorical move to the center than with the five million jobs the economy added over those two years — an achievement not likely to be repeated this time, especially not in the face of harsh spending cuts. The blindness of the DLC-era "Third Way" Democratic Party continues to be an astounding thing. For more than a decade now they have been clinging to the idea that the path to electoral success is social liberalism plus laissez-faire economics – in other words, get Wall Street and corporate America to fund your campaigns, and get minorities, pro-choice and gay marriage activists (who will always frightened into loyalty by the Tea Party/Christian loonies on the other side) to march at your rallies and vote every November. They've abandoned the unions-and-jobs platform that was the party's anchor since Roosevelt, and the latest innovations all involve peeling back their own policy legacies from the 20th century. Obama's new plan, for instance, might involve slashing Medicare and Social Security under "pressure" from the Republicans. I simply don't believe the Democrats would really be worse off with voters if they committed themselves to putting people back to work, policing Wall Street, throwing their weight behind a real public option in health care, making hedge fund managers pay the same tax rates as ordinary people, ending the pointless wars abroad, etc. That they won't do these things because they're afraid of public criticism, and "responding to pressure," is an increasingly transparent lie. This "Please, Br'er Fox, don't throw me into dat dere briar patch" deal isn't going to work for much longer. Just about everybody knows now that they want to go into that briar patch. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: artbrooks Date: 01 Aug 11 - 01:34 AM Tea Party hates it. Progressives hate it. Must be some good in there somewhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 01 Aug 11 - 01:57 AM Catspaw 49: "During the elections I kept saying that I didn't really trust Obama while many declared him the latest savior. He is the living proof that it matters little who holds an office, the methodology, the process, will control it all..." During the elections you and I exchanged posts...I agree, and you are right!!! Don Firth: "P. S. I fully realize that I'm wasting my time here. People are very fond of glib, "I'm really, really clever because I know what's not in the history books!" Did it ever occur to you that the reason it's not in the history books is because it's simply not true?" .....or the posts you allude to!....but don't let it stop you! Ever thought of apologizing?? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Don Firth Date: 01 Aug 11 - 02:14 AM Nothing for me to apologize for. But you? Lots! But I'm not going to hold my breath. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Aug 11 - 02:59 AM Spaw - "During the elections I kept saying that I didn't really trust Obama while many declared him the latest savior. He is the living proof that it matters little who holds an office, the methodology, the process, will control it all." Exactly. That is what I have been saying here for years, much to the outrage of Don Firth, who keeps quoting Dante, as if that meant anything. Thank you, Spaw. Let's see if Mr Firth now hurls Dante at you and accuses you of "colorless neutrality". He probably won't, though, because it usually matters a lot less here to the most argumentative political bellyachers on this forum what is said than who said it. They have their favorites, those who are magically above reproach, just like Israel...and they have those whom they enjoy slagging and slamming on a regular basis. GfS heads up the list when it comes to being subjected to slagging by those righteous folks, despite the fact that GfS often makes a great deal more sense than most of the so-called "progressives" here manage to. As a radical progressive myself who had some faint hopes in 2008 that Mr Obama just might make a difference, but has seen those hopes vanish utterly, may I say that I agree totally with what Spaw said in his last post. Yes, HE said it, folks. The patron saint of Mudcat has spoken and he has not approved of Mr Obama! Watcha gonna do now? Who ya gonna call? Ghostbusters? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 01 Aug 11 - 09:47 AM Chill, ya'll... The Te3a Party came to this gun fight with only one bullet in their gun and they have fired it... Watch the conversation change once Obama signs this bill... The Tea Party has shot it's wad... They have spent whatever political capital they had here... Only the rabid radicals are behind them... The adults will take over from here... And, as I understand this 50% of the initial $1T (over 10 years, folks) will come outta Defense... That leaves $50B a year from "everything else"... Here's another point that I believe is part of this bill... The 2nd round of "cuts" to be negotiated by a bi-partisan commission/committee will be tasked with reducing the "deficit" by $1.5T which can and very well may include revenues... That's the way I understand it at this point... It will be much clearer in the coming days but if that is the case then the conversation is going to change drastically in the coming days, weeks and months... No matter, the Dems are well positioned to run on revenues for 2012... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Jack the Sailor Date: 01 Aug 11 - 09:55 AM Not not trusting Obama is one thing. Trusting Hillary Clinton is another. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 01 Aug 11 - 11:51 AM Please p;ease do not tell the Tea Party, but in the fine print the tea party will not be invited to the party next time. You see there is a provision for a commitee *the posse of 6* to take the issue out of the hands of Freshmaen House members and decide behind closed doors in 2012. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: gnu Date: 01 Aug 11 - 01:44 PM Canuck buck is US$1.0436 right now. Two pennies "overnight". Little Hawk... feeling a bit better? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Greg F. Date: 01 Aug 11 - 03:23 PM Once again I find myself thinking of what Jim Kunen said in the 60's........"America......I love what it could be; I hate what it is." Don't forget old Phil, Spaw. Nobody ever does his 4th verse (its not in the DigiTrad either- Mud Elves take note) kinda like Woody's verse about the posted sign etc. in "This Land..." Gives me a real warm feeling in my bowels to realize how we're right back where we were in 1963- or worse. ==== THE POWER AND THE GLORY (Phil Ochs) Come on and take a walk with me thru this green and growing land Walk thru the meadows and the mountains and the sand Walk thru the valleys and the rivers and the plains Walk thru the sun and walk thru the rain CH: Here is a land full of power and glory Beauty that words cannot recall Oh her power shall rest on the strength of her freedom Her glory shall rest on us all From Colorado, Kansas, and the Carolinas too Virginia and Alaska, from the old to the new Texas and Ohio and the California shore Tell me, who could ask for more Yet she's only as rich as the poorest of her poor Only as free as the padlocked prison door Only as strong as our love for this land Only as tall as we stand But our land is still troubled by men who have to hate They twist away our freedom and they twist away our fate Fear is their weapon and treason is their cry We can stop them if we try |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Aug 11 - 04:49 PM Thank God for that, gnu! My customers all pay me in US dollars, and I've been holding as much of it as I can in the US dollar account while the Loonie was up so damned high. I'm very glad the Canadian dollar is dropping now. Jack? I don't trust either Obama or Hillary Clinton! I trust Hillary about as far as I can throw a refrigerator, Obama only slightly more than that. ;-) I do trust Dennis Kucinich, but he'll never be president. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Stringsinger Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:11 PM The Tea Party has said that anything Obama puts forward is dead on arrival. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:23 PM They've obviously got Mr Obama confused with Satan... ;-) What would they do if they didn't have him? Oh well...they could always have Hillary instead, I guess. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Jack the Sailor Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:40 PM "They've obviously got Mr Obama confused with Satan... ;-) What would they do if they didn't have him?" They have Satan. He used to be Vice President. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:44 PM LOL! Yeah...but he's not their Satan...if you know what I mean. He's their political opponents' Satan. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Jack the Sailor Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:49 PM No. I'm pretty sure he is the real deal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 03 Aug 11 - 09:16 AM Rush LImbaugh, Eric Cantor, Boehner and McConnel have all raised thier arms and yelled "SUCCESS !" The day after Obama was elected we heard the central strategy of the Republican party. "I HOPE HE FAILS." of course to create a failure for Obama one would have to create failure for the nation at large. McConnel confirmed the failure strategy when he said "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.... Our single biggest political goal is to give our nominee for president the maximum opportunity to be successful." This wasn't just some throwaway line -- McConnell is explaining, on the record, how he intends to approach the policymaking process in 2011 and 2012. And as far as the Republicans' Senate leader is concerned, all of his efforts will be built around destruction. It's tempting to think responsible lawmakers, when asked about their top goals, would talk about job creation, national security, immigration policy, energy, etc. But not Mitch McConnell. He sees destroying the president of the United States in the midst of multiple crises as his "single most important" goal. This is what the administration is supposed to negotiate with next year. Congress will spend 1.2 billion dollars on thier summer break since they did not fund the FAA. The safety inspectors are working for free and the taxes (22 million dollars a day) are being lost. The transportation secretary made a deal that he would not mention that safety inspectors are not being paid in return for Airlines giving back the money they took by hiking fairs to equal what the taxes were and keeping it for themselves. Expensive vacations for Congress but it is actually money wasted because the republicans want to abolish all union jobs in the FAA and Democrat Senator Rockeller will not cave. So the FAA is virtually shut down, taxes go uncollected and 4000 jobs to build safety systems and infrastructure are lost until the House members in COngress take action maybe when they get back from VAY KAY. YEAH WE WON LETS PARTY LIKE ITS 2012 cuz we made OBAMA America FAIL just look at the markets YAAHOOO |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Aug 11 - 11:29 AM The whole point of party politics is to cause the other party to fail! And that's why it has produced this travesty of a political system that we presently have. It was a stupid idea. It should never have been done. There are other and far better ways to democratically govern a society. People now can't seem to think of them because they apparently don't have the imagination to even try. They just take the existing party system for granted, and they never look beyond it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Jack the Sailor Date: 03 Aug 11 - 11:45 AM No it isn't. The point is to choose who gets to govern until the next election. The problem is that the GOP does not want the country to be governed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 03 Aug 11 - 01:43 PM GfS plunges face into hands, while resting elbows on the desk...Shakes head slowly, draws long breath....."SIGHHHHhhh" Mutters, "Snap now, and avoid the rush, Ol' Pal". "Huh?......Who me??..................What??" GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 03 Aug 11 - 02:00 PM The last time the Stock Market declined 9 days in a row was 1978 when the songs at the top of the hit list were Staying Alive by the Bee Gees, Kiss you all over, and You LIght Uo My Life by Debbie Boone. For those who think they believe that politics is at its foundation is a system to cause failure, I feel sad that you drank the Kool Aid. The function of politics is to exercise power to make good things possible for the nation it serves. The ideological divide is the question of which people it designed to serve, the masses or the priviledged few. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Bobert Date: 03 Aug 11 - 02:09 PM Jack is 100% correct... Wall Street has finally figured it out... Too bad they have been so busy trying to make Obama look bad (sound familiar) that they didn't realize that had lit their own house on fire in doing so??? I mean, this ain't rocket surgery here... Last month the private sector created 58,000 jobs while state and local governments cut 40,000 jobs... We need 200,000 jobs a month created to cut into the 8,000,000 lost under Bush and cutting government spending (jobs) at this point in time is suicide for the US economy... The leading economists, including Paul Krugman, told *US* that we needed a $1.2T stimulus... All Obama could get out of the Repubs was $300B to go along with $400B in yet more tax cuts??? No stimulus, no recovery... All this was predicted... Ain't all that tough... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 03 Aug 11 - 02:20 PM Thank goodness the super wealthy will supply stimulus to the US economy any time now. Just wait. It'll trickle down any moment now... wait for it. I think I see it...here it comes...is that it? ...no Well don't worry, they promised back in the Reagan Administration. during Bush 1 and Bush 2 They must just be bideing thier time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 03 Aug 11 - 02:35 PM Remember all those posts I made about gold in July? Well its checkable. People who own millions or billions in gold are doing very well now as I predicted. If you have an ounce you only made $17 . But like I said it will soon be oversold and the price will drop like a gold bubble. I know this, not because I worked for criminals at Bear Sterns, but because I can add and subtract. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 03 Aug 11 - 02:55 PM Donuel: "People who own millions or billions in gold are doing very well now as I predicted. If you have an ounce you only made $17 . But like I said it will soon be oversold and the price will drop like a gold bubble. I know this, not because I worked for criminals at Bear Sterns, but because I can add and subtract." I wholeheartedly agree!! The day will come when gold won't be worth more than it's weight of bubble gum of the same size! By then the damage done by the 'Fanatic Frantics' will be enormous! Don't believe them!...ANY of them!! Bring them what you get when you compose a beautiful piece, and through it, lead them to where you got it! Regards, Sanity |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Republican Default Crises From: Donuel Date: 03 Aug 11 - 03:01 PM Way to go. I feel Like Boehner when Obama says he agrees with John. |
