Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 01:35 PM

I'm sorry; as a Yank outsider, I'm picturing a sequence of increasing bans on large groups of men performing traditional arts, until in 2050 or so a man is drive to write the sad tribute, "And the Ladies Go Clogging at Whitsun."

--Nonie

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,A Dunelm Antiquarian Writes...
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 05:27 AM

Random indeed, Mr Fly! One hears that some of these Morris Dancer fellows hold down quite respectable careers when not persuing their particularly irksome hobby. It's worth noting that Rapper Sides receive quite a welcome at Durham Pubs on account of their superior choreography and dress-sense.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 05:19 AM

A random Folkie - now there's a thought...

One morning, when Gregor Samsa woke from troubled dreams, he found himself transformed in his bed into a random folkie.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,A Dunelm Antiquarian Writes...
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 05:11 AM

Despite its pretty aspect, The Swan and Three Cygnets is very much a local pub for local people, and Durham locals remain (at best) generally indifferent to the antics of Students and Bearded Hippy Weirdos - in which latter category Morris Dancers are reckoned to be quite near the top. So this is a case of a responsible barmaid protecting the interests of her Saturday regulars from any unnecessary flamboyance and potential fol de rol - and good for her. I was in Durham pub once peacably watching the racing when a Morris Side invaded the bar and proceeded to ruin the ambience by insisting on singing Folk Songs - a Time and a Place Gentlemen surely, as they were reminded when the land lord proceeded with the eviction. In any case these self-styled Morris Dancers found welcome at the Half Moon - not a five yard caper around former Greetings Corner, and one of any number of city centre pubs where no one would have batted an eyelid at their increasingly rediculous attire, bells or no. In truth, there is any amount of city centre pubs they could have gone to rapturous welcome - and maybe two or three where they would have been refused on sight - or worse, man-handled into the street, which really would have been newsworthy!

I think it's time these random Folkies and self-styled Morris Men (& Women) started to respect the local people, folklore and Traditions of the towns and pubs they descend upon, researching well in advance those hostelries where they are likely to receive a welcome and - more importantly - those in which they are not.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,giovanni
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 04:25 AM

Any pubs that offer a Morris-Free Zone are OK in my book........

g

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: stallion
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 04:09 AM

Thats nowt, the Welly cricket team were barred from the Welly pub (The Wellington, Alma Terrace, york) because 22 people or more came in together on a Sunday evening after the game, large groups of men were not allowed, the argument was so vehement that they got barred individually. New landlord lets them in but alas the songs that came after the matches have long faded into memory with the Sam Smiths dictum

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 12:17 AM

This team got in. They left their bells outside!

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: mayomick
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 12:28 PM

I have heard that part of the conditions for a public bar license is that the establishment is obliged to serve a glass of water to anybody of legal age who hadn't been specifically barred . I doubt if water would have suited the morris team on the occasion , but they should have all asked for a glass of tap water as a protest.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Wheatman
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 05:31 AM

Don't forget, the licensee has the power to refuse serving any one and does not have to give a reason. Go to a more sympathetic hostelry. Gan Canny Brian

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 05:09 AM

If a whole large bunch of Morris Dancers appeared in our pub on a Saturday afternoon, I'd be jumping up and down with pure delight.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,Cath
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 04:58 AM

The fact is that licensees can allow in who they like and the prospect of a whole (large) bunch of Morris Dancers could be a bit overpowering on a Saturday afternoon.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 04:03 AM

I doubt that even PRS would claim the sound of bells to be under copyright and demand a fee from the pub.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,999
Date: 04 Aug 11 - 08:24 PM

Lord help the person whose cell phone breaks into "Eye of the Tiger" in the pubs.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: melodeonboy
Date: 04 Aug 11 - 07:25 PM

Why is the temporary "jingling" of a Morris side in a pub considered a noise problem whereas incessant piped music (in many cases so loud that you have to shout at the person next to you) considered acceptable?

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 11 - 03:03 PM

Are you up to date with your "how dare you" club subscription???

No need. I am an honourary member of the curmudgeons club. So ther, with bells on.

:D tG

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 04 Aug 11 - 06:43 AM

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Swanse​a-s-Monkey-Cafe-banned-playing-recorded/​story-13060968-detail/story.html

PPL spokesperson Jonathan Morrish said: "It is a legal requirement in the UK for any business that plays recorded music in public to have a PPL licence.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 04 Aug 11 - 04:02 AM

The irony of this - that a performance of Morris dancing in this pub could have taken place without additional entertainment licensing (as it is exempt) and with a carefully chosen selection of music, there would be no required PRS/PPL fee for Sam Smiths to pay.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 04 Aug 11 - 03:02 AM

My understanding was that Smith's issue was with paying for PRS licences rather than with premises licensing.

That is (or was) true but these pubs still have to to pay for the premises licence whether they apply for additional entertainment licensing or not. The not inconsiderable PPL/PRS fee is of course additional payment.

In a strange way, Sam Smiths, with their resulting no music policy, are to be admired in at least doing what they can and making a stand against what they see as the extortionate cost of providing music in this country. A cost that they are not prepared to pay.

That is their choice. We have our choice as to whether to give them our custom.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,migginz
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 04:42 PM

To correct an inaccuracy. The incident "escaped" from the environs of Durham because a member of the side posted a comment on their Facebook page which was read by a friend who knew a local reporter. It has now been published widely in many national papers. This is the power of the internet folks.

Subject: Sam Smith's ban Morris bells
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 06:52 AM

Morris dancers' bells breached Samuel Smith's ban on music.

http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/news.ma/article/91296

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Soldier boy
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 09:33 PM

To my knowledge this incident has now been reported in The Daily Telegraph, the Daily Express, the Huddersfield Examiner, the Daily Mirror, The Sun and the local Durham paper. There may be many more.

If you google "slubbing billy's pub" you will find that this incident has caused quite a stir.

I am a member of the Slubbing Billy's morris side and can assure you that the Slubbing Billy's never meant to seek all this publicity. That was never their intention; they just got caught up in this as innocent players in a stupid event.

It was the local Durham press who were out with photographers and reporters covering The Durham Folk Weekend event that first picked up on this story and then obviously flashed it around the main media market in the UK.

It was then down to the media in general if they would take it up and report it and some deemed it interesting enough or barmy enough to print it.

And as for the Slubbing Billys getting more "business" out of this as a result Morris-ey you are completely misguided.
Morris sides attending this weekend provide their services free of charge and even (unusually) pay for camping which goes a long way towards paying for the organiser's costs of this weekend.

Most weekends we attend and are invited to throughout the country are like this (apart from paying for camping!)and we pay our own costs of travel and drink and eat in the local community and therefore bring in extra revenue to the community.

So we do not seek extra "business" because we just can't afford it thank you very much! There is no question of business or commerce here. we "entertain" for free and are glad to do so without gain or favour.

Chris

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Morris-ey
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 06:49 PM

I wonder who will get more business as a result? Slubbing Billys or Sam Smiths for not having them...

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Nick
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 05:47 PM

So I wonder how on earth it got into the papers - with pictures? It was in the Daily Express too

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Soldier boy
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 01:10 PM

It was also on ITV's Calendar news early this afternoon and may possibly be repeated on Calender news tonight round about now (6-6.30pm.)

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 11:19 AM

At least the ban got a photo of the Morris 'side' Slubbing Billys onto page 5 of today's Daily Telegraph:

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 11:17 AM

"s to noisy drinkers - how dare you discriminate against us poor souls who cannot drink without making a noise. It is usualy the result of a medical disorder. I bet you would ban people in wheelchairs as well you unfeeling, ignorant bastard."

Are you up to date with your "how dare you" club subscription???

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Morris-ey
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 11:04 AM

What any brewery decides is right for their pubs and regular clientele is a matter for them only.

There are many other pubs which welcome all sorts.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 10:24 AM

Sam Smith makes good beer... I would wear earplugs.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,Nick E
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:51 PM

"surely this is taking it to an absurd and absolutely ridiculous level."

Morris Dancing creeps out more people than it entertains.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Nick
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:13 PM

I met Humphrey for the first time a few weeks ago and had a chance to talk to him for the first time since the music ban. Some of you may remember that he wrote me two letters (the text of which used to be on this site and on various others) at the time and returned the phone call that I made to him at his home.

While you may disagree with what he has done - and in this instance there is no suggestion that it's a 'don't allow Morris dancers' directive from Head Office - you sure aren't going to change anything if you close any hope of dialogue by pointless protest. All you'll do is to embarrass and annoy managers of the pubs who have precious little power apart from towing the line as they are mostly concerned with keeping their jobs.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:11 PM

why does one have to put up with the often hideous noise of loud drinkers and their children

You don't! Children are only allowed in pubs by the landlords discression.(sp?) :-)

As to noisy drinkers - how dare you discriminate against us poor souls who cannot drink without making a noise. It is usualy the result of a medical disorder. I bet you would ban people in wheelchairs as well you unfeeling, ignorant bastard.

:D tG

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,AEOLA
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 04:49 PM

Not that I go in any Sam Smith's pubs, but, if I do I'll try not to jingle the loose change in my pocket!!

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Fortunato
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 03:02 PM

Interesting thread, but isn't this a BS/non-music thread?

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: MikeL2
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 02:53 PM

hi

I agree with eliza......why couldn't the Morris just remove the bells??? Doesn't take much does it.

I have been in pubs around here ( Cheshire) when we have had morris dancers coming in for a "lemonade". Didn't cause any problems here. But I can see other people's viewpoint if they have come for a quiet night with friends.

If possible there should always be a compromise sought and that should come from both sides.

There are a few Sam Smith's houses around here but I haven't heard of any problems with the banning of entertainment from them.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 02:13 PM

Still, we should remember that, whether or not the owner of Sam Smiths is a tight-fisted curmudgeon, if the Government didn't have an unnecessary, overbearing attitude towards live music, we wouldn't have to have entertainment licenses anyway.
My understanding was that Smith's issue was with paying for PRS licences rather than with premises licensing.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 01:44 PM

I used to have Lumps of Plum Pudding for my ringtone, I now have 30 seconds of Home Service playing a very powerful Calvary Cross during The Passion at the National in 2000!

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 10:59 AM

"if the Government didn't have an unnecessary, overbearing attitude towards live music, we wouldn't have to have entertainment licenses anyway."

It isn't just that. At some Sam Smiths pubs, like The Jolly Sailor in Whitby, they don't allow children in, either. I've spoken to a number of previous managers and he treats them like dirt - for example, like having the locks changed at Nellie's in Beverley when the managers had gone out. Apparantly they had a hell of a battle just to get their personal belongings out. He doesn't care if they take him to industrial tribunals - if he loses it's no skin off his nose as he's reputed to be one of the richest men in Yorkshire. Basically he's just a completely miserable bastard.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 09:53 AM

Still, we should remember that, whether or not the owner of Sam Smiths is a tight-fisted curmudgeon, if the Government didn't have an unnecessary, overbearing attitude towards live music, we wouldn't have to have entertainment licenses anyway.

We could all protest with some "sing-ins".

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 09:52 AM

I didn't know that about Sam Smiths pubs. that's a real shame, because I quite like their beers and their pubs and their reasonable prices (for London).

I drink in the Princess Louise in Holborn from time to time, and I occasionally toy with the idea of asking the manager if he/she would be prepared to host some folk upstairs - particularly as that particular pub has a good bit of folk history to it (its where Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger used to host folk nights).

Now I know it's not worth bothering...

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 09:48 AM

A variant on Will Fly's suggestion. Sit around in the pub and phone each other so as to achieve a massed band effect. With properly selected ring tones and careful timing the effect could be quite impressive.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 09:38 AM

As a compromise, couldn't the Morris side just have unbuckled their bell-leathers while they were in there? They only attach below the knee with a strap, as far as I rememeber. Here in Norfolk, a nice Morris occasion brings lots of customers to a pub, for ale and food. Many pubs here welcome a side as an attraction. The world is going, or has gone mad!

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Soldier boy
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 09:28 AM

No 'entertainment' is a definate pub rule in all Sam Smiths' pubs migginz.
If it was just a case of a member of bar staff, with no authority, who didn't like the noise of bells because she was nursing a hangover then that is even worse surely because then it becomes an unauthorised and purely selfish act of spiteful discrimination.

It is probably more the case that the person in question was very well aware of Humphrey Smith's draconian rules and in her delicate condition decided to over play such stupid rules to get a bit power crazy and wield the axe of 'authority' in his name for her own purely selfish purpose.

Whatever the reason; Humphrey Smith has a lot to answer for!

It's all so daft you have to laugh rather than cry.

Chris

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 07:30 AM

Just had a thought - the ringtone on my mobile is "The Trumpet Hornpipe" (alias "Captain Pugwash"). I could go into a Sam Smith's pub and get several friends to phone me for short conversation...

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 07:28 AM

And the incessant ringing of mobile phones?

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 07:25 AM

Apart from Morris dancers I would point out that there are an increasing number of members of the general public who have bells of this kind attatched to purses/wallets to act as a warning noise in case of attempted theft.
Are these people banned as well?

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 06:21 AM

"Organise "flashmob folkies" to gather, totally unannounced, outside selected Sam Smith pubs and have an impromptu 10-minute chorus of uproarious songs before disappearing?"

Better still, do it outside Humphrey Smith's house in Towton, near Tadcaster. He lives in a bizarre world of his own and doesn't give a shit about his customers or his managers/staff. Personally I wouldn't be seen dead in a Sam Smiths' pub.

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 06:02 AM

...on today's news a feature that 26 pubs are closing every day (?week?- I was only half listening!)in the UK.
I draw no conclusions!

RtS

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:37 AM

By the same token, why does one have to put up with the often hideous noise of loud drinkers and their children!!!

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:32 AM

Just think what it was like in a Western saloon ~~

I got spurs that jingle jangle jingle...

~M~

Subject: RE: Morris teams barred from Sam Smiths pub
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:26 AM

Oh come on now! We can't have uncontrolled jingling on licensed premises. Whatever next!