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Tech: The messages value on Mudcat

DrugCrazed 08 Aug 11 - 09:36 PM
GUEST,Jon 08 Aug 11 - 09:44 PM
GUEST,Jon 08 Aug 11 - 09:46 PM
Crowhugger 08 Aug 11 - 09:55 PM
DrugCrazed 08 Aug 11 - 09:59 PM
GUEST,Jon 08 Aug 11 - 10:01 PM
GUEST,Jon 08 Aug 11 - 10:08 PM
GUEST,Jon 08 Aug 11 - 10:11 PM
DrugCrazed 08 Aug 11 - 10:12 PM
Jeri 08 Aug 11 - 10:18 PM
GUEST,999 08 Aug 11 - 11:06 PM
Crowhugger 08 Aug 11 - 11:27 PM
DrugCrazed 09 Aug 11 - 12:46 PM
Jeri 09 Aug 11 - 12:53 PM
GUEST,Jon 09 Aug 11 - 01:47 PM
DMcG 09 Aug 11 - 02:45 PM
catspaw49 09 Aug 11 - 03:14 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Aug 11 - 06:41 PM
DrugCrazed 09 Aug 11 - 07:11 PM
JohnInKansas 09 Aug 11 - 11:13 PM
DrugCrazed 10 Aug 11 - 09:18 AM
GUEST,Jon 10 Aug 11 - 09:27 AM
GUEST,Jon 10 Aug 11 - 09:33 AM
DrugCrazed 10 Aug 11 - 09:45 AM
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Subject: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 09:36 PM

I've noticed this for a while, and it's finally bugged me enough for me to ask. A typical mudcat thread URL is:
mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=[ID]&messages=[number]

I'm just curious, what's that for? If I opened a thread with 40 posts in it but had messages=10 (or indeed leave it out) the thread loads fine with everything. Does mudcat have some secret use for this number, does it count the number of gerbils that need to run in wheels to make the server run faster, or is it just a throwback to the days when it was used?

I find these things fascinating, so could anyone shed any insight? Inaccurate answers (such as confirmation of gerbil myth) are also welcome - hence why I didn't just email Max, plus I didn't want to bother him with such a niggling question.


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 09:44 PM

It enables you to see which threads have had messages since you last opened them.

mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=[ID] would always be the same link

but

mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=[ID]&messages=1
mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=[ID]&messages=2

are different links

Other sites use more complicated methods but this one is simple and effective.


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 09:46 PM

(provided you are using the same computer/browser)


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: Crowhugger
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 09:55 PM

That doesn't explain why, when there are 40 messages and you enter 'messages=10', you don't get the thread with only the first 10 messages.


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 09:59 PM

Indeed. A tautological thought I was thinking is that it might be to jump to the [number] meta data post (as in the thing at the top of the thread before the main thread text begins), but evidently not.


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 10:01 PM

It isn't used for that. I'd doubt the page (thread.cfm) even looks as the messages bit. I might be wrong but I suspect it would get confusing if it did act on it.

I'd guess most people would copy the whole link when passing it on to someone else, eg.

www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=139648&messages=4

but supposing it had more messages added to it?


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 10:08 PM

Btw, I think this will go to a message. Aiming for crowhuggers:

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=139648#3204317


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 10:11 PM

And that message on its own:

http://mudcat.org/Detail.CFM?messages__Message_ID=3204317


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 10:12 PM

Yeah, I've used that before (all hail HTML anchors).

That's my point though, it doesn't appear to be used, so I was wondering whether it had been depreciated. I'm writing some random PHP involving Mudcat and was wondering what it was for, in case I screwed up the script.


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 10:18 PM

I think the ONLY reason is so the link changes back to an "unvisited" color when there are new posts.


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: GUEST,999
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 11:06 PM

WTf



Righttttttttttttttttttttt!

Got it.





What's the matter, two dogs . . .


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: Crowhugger
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 11:27 PM

Makes sense, Jeri. New question for you: Does your "I think" mean you're guessing or fairly sure, or that you're politely saying you know, period? (Sometimes I find English confusing when missing body language and tone of voice)


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 12:46 PM

Does seem to make sense, but it means you'd need to revisit a thread you'd just posted to.


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 12:53 PM

Means "fairly sure".


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 01:47 PM

Probably about the same level of "certainty" as mine...


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 02:45 PM

Also a 'possibly' and in a sense a restatement of the 'visited' argument. Without the messages bit a smart browser might cache a copy of the page and as a result you wouldn't see any new posts. Of course, there are other ways manage that, with expiry dates and so on, but this is a simple and browser independent way to do that that can take advantage of local caching.


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 03:14 PM

I'd be happy to give you a rat's ass but I don't have one........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 06:41 PM

Thanks Spaw.
I haven't got one at the moment either.
But I might have been rat-arsed last night!

Cheers
Nigel


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 07:11 PM

Spaw: I'd be willing to be in a similar situation, but these things niggle.


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 11:13 PM

For some, perhaps, things might be clearer with a reminder that mudcat is database based. The "links" you click on for internal navigation on the site are actually structured as "database QUERIES" and the results they display when you "arrive" are what the query assembles to show you.

Just as for any other "html link" the "instruction" doesn't have to have much of anything to do with the "display text" you see.

Each Username has a uniquely assigned number.

Each individual Post has a uniquely assigned number.

Each Thread has a uniquely assigned number.

The "object" that's returned when you ask (query) for it can have a number of "Attributes" that are associated with it, including things like a TimeStamp for when it was created, a number indicating where it is within a thread, and such.

The "query" can return the "sequence number in the thread" for the "most recent post in the thread" to show how many posts there are, and this probably is what you see for number of posts. (It often seems to be "off by one" so maybe the sequence number for the first post is zero?, but I don't really care.)

Because the individual posts are (apparently) numbered in the order they're created, without regard to what thread they're in, in theory one might search for "post #1" to find the "First post ever at mudcat." I'd suggest, however, that people not waste their time, as it's already been confirmed that there is no post #1 in the data base since Max did some "test posts" - subsequently deleted - before officially releasing the 'cat to roam free, attack, and destroy the feeble-minded victims who might wander in here.

The use of a database structure is convenient, compact, and efficient for a site like mudcat, but since I HATE WORKING IN DATABASES (they give me a headache) I'm content to know a few tricks for getting to the "link types" that automatically construct the QUERIES appropriate to what it's useful to do here, and only "cheat a little" when it's really useful for some innocuous purpose. The "automated queries" are sufficient, once you learn how to find and use them.

If an "object identifier" or an "object attribute" appears that you don't know how to use, it almost never really matters (to you) although it "probably does something" that's an "invisible help." Max has done an excellent job of keeping it simple and efficient for we lesser mortals (assuming he's a mortal and not some other "entity" with "attributes" we don't fully comprehend, in which case maybe a clone will want to delete "lesser" and substitute "mere").

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 09:18 AM

Aye John, I was willing to bet that Mudcat was database based*. But since I am using the database on this boredom project, if that value is important, I'd like to know.

*That's a horrible sentence.


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 09:27 AM

DrugCrazed, Mudcat was based on a Cold Fusion tutorial. I couldn't find it on a quick search on Google now but you might be able to find it. I did once write a php translation of that for the fun of it.

Off the top of my head, I'd imagine the SQL for the forum listing John talks about was probably something along these lines.

SELECT thread.threadid, thread.subject, count(message.messageid) as messages, max(message.posted) as lastpost
FROM thread, message
WHERE thread.threadid = message.threadid
GROUP BY thread.threadid
HAVING max(message.posted) >= "days to view"
ORDER BY max(message.posted) DESC

I'm sure the message count was not used for any query in the original tutorial.


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 09:33 AM

(that is &messages= not used in the original)


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Subject: RE: Tech: The messages value on Mudcat
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 09:45 AM

If I were a lesser man, I would have already looked up the cfm extension. Since I am...

Thanks for this everyone.


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