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Suggestions for music camps

mg 09 Aug 11 - 11:17 PM
GUEST,leeneia 10 Aug 11 - 11:16 AM
GUEST,mg 10 Aug 11 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,999 10 Aug 11 - 12:52 PM
GUEST,mg 10 Aug 11 - 01:47 PM
GUEST,999 10 Aug 11 - 02:00 PM
Jack Campin 11 Aug 11 - 07:37 AM
Richard Bridge 11 Aug 11 - 09:12 AM
Jack Campin 11 Aug 11 - 09:21 AM
Will Fly 11 Aug 11 - 09:37 AM
GUEST,mg 11 Aug 11 - 01:03 PM
GUEST,999 11 Aug 11 - 01:21 PM
Jack Campin 11 Aug 11 - 02:22 PM
GUEST,mg 11 Aug 11 - 03:01 PM
open mike 11 Aug 11 - 04:32 PM
John P 11 Aug 11 - 04:57 PM
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Subject: BS: suggestions for music camps
From: mg
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 11:17 PM

I have some... Most concern food. People are on so many diets and you can not please everyone. Try to please vegetarians but if you are going all vegetarian let people know. I ended up in the woods of Oregon without enough protein for several days and I was ready to pass out. Have refrigeration, and refrigeration that people can get to..often stuff gets locked. If it will not be available, let people know and most could bring coolers and ice. Have a george foreman grill and hot plate so people can cook out of the way of the main cooks. Don't put meat in main dish..have it separate so vegetarians can eat it or have two styles of dish.

Have some food out at all times..people are on all sorts of schedules that might not coincide with mealtime...fruit, cereal, bread and peanut butter, a crockpot of soup..nothing fancy. Do not skimp on milk. Have real maple syrup unless you have maple syrup hogs.

It takes forever for spaghetti to boil.

Have a couple of electric skillets outside the main kitchen and let people cook their own ommelettes etc.

Package up the leftovers and take to a food program for the needy if possible. Some will take it, some will not be able to .

Have good coffee. Have someone who will make sure it is turned off at night. You don't want burning coffee pots...

What has worked very well in Sunnycamp, because it is such a small camp, and people tend to know each other, is to just get a bunch of good standard ingredients and let cooks get creative. There is always a fall back menu, but we have exceeded it always with some grand salmon dinners with apple pie and cranberry chutney etc. etc.


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 11:16 AM

How about dividing into small, similar groups and letting the groups take care of their own meals?

For example:

the vegetarian group
the gluten-free group
the lactose-intolerant group
the cave-man group

(How I long for simpler times when you invited people to eat, they came, and they ate.)


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 11:23 AM

Cave man would do very well at this upcoming camp..could hunt for deer and bear, oysters right out the back door, fish, berries...mg


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 12:52 PM

If indeed people are harvesting oysters, remember the old adage about NOT eating shell fish in months that do not contain an R: May, June, July and August. It ain't an old wives tale (or husband's for that matter. If there have been algae blooms, the oysters could be lethal to eat. Check with local fish and game, fishermen or fish mongers. They should know whether they are safe to eat.


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 01:47 PM

There are all sorts of warnings here and professional oyster growers plus I work for a biologist who works with them so we are going to be OK on that front..however, strawberries from not too far from here have had salmonella...mg


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 02:00 PM

I figured you'd have that covered, mg.


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 07:37 AM

Peanut allergy is so serious and common enough that I can't imagine any event like that in the UK providing peanut butter among the general catering - too easy to have it contaminate something else. Okay for people to bring their own so long as it's in small enough packs that it won't spread everywhere.

(The commonest anaphylactic food allergens: dairy, peanuts, shellfish, eggs. People with anaphylactic reactions to dairy - the commonest one - generally live like hermits waiting to die, and eggs aren't all that commonly fatal except for children. Which leaves peanuts and shellfish as the ones you want to allow participants to avoid).


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 09:12 AM

There seem to be increasing numbers of people being or claiming to be allergic to all fish and all plants members of the tomato family. It is very awkward trying to prepare smoked salmon rolls when a participant will die (barring an epi-pen incident and instant trip to hospital) if he eats anything that has been put on any table that has had any fish on it. A roll or two of catering paper tablecloth can help - totally cover the prep table, put the amuse-geules on your own plates that you will take away afterwards, then put them on clean paper on a table 6 feet from all other tables and burn the paper from the prep table. Afterwards remove and wash plates in very hot water that is taken elsewhere for disposal (or bag and conceal the plates until you take them home) and then burn the paper from the serving table too.

I once used to lecture a student (a very pretty girl indeed) who was fatally allergic to latex (she said). Inconvenient for her!


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 09:21 AM

Fish/shellfish, latex and peanut allergies are potentially sudden death. Tomato-family intolerance isn't, though a crippling attack of arthritic pain or gastrointestinal spasm isn't what you go to a folk camp for.

Those suggestions are pretty good. You do need to be extra careful about waste disposal.

Burning on the spot isn't necessary, though. Just make sure everything is well bagged up with no contamination outside the bags.


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 09:37 AM

Camp? Do you really mean camping? Outdoors? OMG!

Brrr!

I last slept in a tent in 1973 - when I was young and foolish.

I like those music camps where you stay in a nice hotel with lots of good food and comfy beds and hot baths and showers and a decent bar and possibly a swimming pool and a snooker table and... and...

... it's just great to be a WUSS!


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 01:03 PM

I insist that people with special food needs bring their own food and take the risk of there being peanut residue on almost anything. We can not run an allergy-free kitchen, and if there are laws then that will shut us down, so be it. I have to bring some of my own food to camps because i just need more protein than they provide...and if I had a serious allergy I would either not attend if it was life-threatening, or I would bring my own food and be sure of no contamination (and you can never be sure there is not a bit on pots and pans, ocunters, etc..if you are that allergic, we can not ensure your safety period). I always have beans and rice and raw food on hand that they can use, but with no guarantees. I know one woman has a garlic allergy and wants us to make sure there is no garlic in anything. If you want to make sure there is no garlic in anything, bring and prepare your own food. You can bring a small appliance as well, such as a hot plate,if the kitchen will be locked.


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 01:21 PM

"If you want to make sure there is no garlic [and by extension other foods to which you might have reactions] in anything, bring and prepare your own food."

Bingo. Hit it in one. Excellent advice.


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 02:22 PM

Peanut is different. Allium family allergies are less common, and less likely to be severe. Peanut is also very persistent in a catering environment so it's easy to contaminate things invisibly. Everybody can do without peanut, or bring their own, for a few days. It doesn't have to be compulsory.

Bags of roasted peanuts are a menace on a plane because it's a closed environment and because of the way they're distributed, you might get 200 packets opened at once with their fine particles being spread through the air. You don't want to replicate a situation like that. With fish/shellfish allergies, the most serious threats are also respiratory, with food particles being released in cooking. This is manageable if any such cooking operations happen in a small predictable area.

I get violent sneezing fits from lemon-scented cleaning agents (when I was in hospital after my heart attack I got the ward to stop using them, as one of those fits could have killed me). Allergy to pine-scented household cleaning materials is more common than my sort (usual reaction is allergic asthma). Unscented cleaning products are available; use them.


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 03:01 PM

Now, on to the music. I think the people putting it on, doing the work, get to choose how it is done. They do not have to cater to interests other than their own; the other interests can hustle and put on their own events. However, it is nice to throw it open as much as you can. My problem with increasing numbers of camps is that they just do not spell things out for people, either way, whatever the philosophy is, and let the buyer beware. If the event is to be as inclusive as possible, give people as many turns as possible, allow use of blue books in each and every event, then just say so up front. Because more and more people expect that this is so. And there is nothing wrong with it..just say so and if you can accomodate people who prefer no blue books, no turn taking, survival of the most aggressive singers or whatever..then say so. They can be in an alternate room, but it should be made clear that others are not to then try to impose the blue book, turn rules etc. on a group that has assembled for another purpose, and that is exactly what happens..no matter how you try to arrange something away from what is now the default situation, no matter how far away you go, they now follow you and impose the books on the group and that has to be stopped up front. They can sing out of the blue books in the larger camps to their hearts' content, but they have to realize that some people really prefer another style and have rights in that regard if they are willing to go another space etc. That assumes enough separate rooms or buildings to accomodate several styles. The camp I am putting on does not have that type of facility, so I have to be very very clear that this camp is going to have nonbooks as default and books as a separate and not so great building..if there were more buildings I would arrange it so everyone was comfortable but I can't so I have to be very very clear, as I wish others would be so I can decide if I want to drive 4 hours or 8 hours or 10 hours as to Princeton..I am asking for knowledge in advance of what the terrain is and I will provide it to others as well. mg


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: open mike
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 04:32 PM

here are some camps...some long-running ones....and some newer...to check for info....

Lark In The Morning http://www.larkcamp.com/
Scandia Camp Mendocino www.scandiacampmendocino.org
American River Music Camp http://rivermusiccamp.com/
The Valley of the Moon Scottish Fiddling School www.valleyofthemoon.org
Calif. Bluegrass Summer Camp, Grass Valley, Ca.www.cbamusiccamp.org
Swannanoa Gathering http://www.swangathering.com/
Port Townsend, WA Fiddle http://www.centrum.org/fiddle/
San Francisco folk Music Club http://www.sffmc.org/harmony_body.html


some camps offer non-snoring accomodations..
some have all-night jam areas
and clog dancing areas...
and some have quiet zones...

some have camping, some allow r.v., some have cabins, dorms or bunk houses..
some have workshps led by pro musicians (song writing, specialized instruments, and even "how to jam" workshops) i hope that your camp is successful and sunny!


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Subject: RE: Suggestions for music camps
From: John P
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 04:57 PM

I was director of a music camp for a few years. We supplied vegetarian meals but didn't try to take care of anyone else. We were very clear about what was what with the food when people were signing up. We had a decent if dilapidated kitchen and a cook who worked cheap because she liked to come to the camp.

My own feeling is that taking care of vegetarians is very simple, but accommodating all food allergies and likes and dislikes is not practical in most music camp situations. People with health concerns or extreme diets should learn to take care of themselves. My ex-wife is a vegan, and she always assumed that she should bring her own food to supplement whatever was being served. Prior communication from the camp about what they are offering is essential.

The only problem we ever had was a meat eater who threw a screaming hissy fit when we told him he couldn't eat the vegetarian food unless he had signed up for it in advance.


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