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Review: New Shantypage

GUEST,Linda 11 Aug 11 - 08:20 AM
Charley Noble 11 Aug 11 - 09:41 AM
GUEST,Linda 11 Aug 11 - 12:04 PM
ClaireBear 11 Aug 11 - 12:33 PM
GUEST,Lighter 11 Aug 11 - 12:54 PM
AlexB 11 Aug 11 - 01:05 PM
Gibb Sahib 11 Aug 11 - 02:23 PM
GUEST,Linda 12 Aug 11 - 03:17 AM
Gibb Sahib 12 Aug 11 - 03:56 AM
GUEST,Linda 12 Aug 11 - 07:01 AM
GUEST,Lighter 12 Aug 11 - 07:39 AM
Dave Hanson 12 Aug 11 - 07:50 AM
ChanteyLass 12 Aug 11 - 02:53 PM
Gibb Sahib 12 Aug 11 - 03:16 PM
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Subject: Review: New Shantypage
From: GUEST,Linda
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 08:20 AM

I am a tall ship sailor from Sweden who love sea shanties and other folksongs.
I have actually used shanties when I have sailed and to not let these experiences go to waste I have started a blog/webpage about shanties.
It is a page where I give my own thought and sometimes my own versions of songs, both sea shanties and folksongs.

Hope you will find it intresting :)

http://seaofshanty.wordpress.com


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Subject: RE: Review: New Shantypage
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 09:41 AM

Linda-

Welcome to the Mudcat forum. There are a dozen or so of us here who enjoy discussing sea music. It's good to have someone commenting who has actually used these song for work at sea.

Here's one comment (not a correction) on the first line of what you've posted to your webpage for "John Kanaka":

"I heard, I heard, the Old Man say,"

which more often is sung today as:

"I thought I heard the Old Man say,""

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Review: New Shantypage
From: GUEST,Linda
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 12:04 PM

@charlie:
Thanks for your in put :)

This is my own personal reflection on your comment on how people usually sing kanaka these days. The thing is that it is easier to put wieght on a word like "heard" than "thought" when you singing. At least if you are going to sing it loud.
In the song you pull on the both "heard" (or thought and heard) that is the words that you will sing strong (I dont know the english word) and thought easy gets just "thou" if your going to sing it as a "strong" word and if it is sung loud and strong the word probably would not been heard.

Just my reflection on the matter :D


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Subject: RE: Review: New Shantypage
From: ClaireBear
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 12:33 PM

Linda, that's an excellent point. So glad you are here to join the conversation!

Claire (another sea-song-ophile)


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Subject: RE: Review: New Shantypage
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 12:54 PM

Yes, we can't have enough actual shantymen here, including shantywomen.

Is the word you're looking for "loudest"?

Welcome aboard!


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Subject: RE: Review: New Shantypage
From: AlexB
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 01:05 PM

I think it is more stressed than necessarily being louder.

I have to say, I do prefer the repetition of heard, and tend to sing it that way myself. Hadn't really noticed most people sing it the other way.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Review: New Shantypage
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 02:23 PM

Perhaps you'd like to sing some Swedish shanties?

Invitation to Contribute

I have just started learning "Ruben Ranzo" and "Min Mand han var en sjömand." I could use help!


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Subject: RE: Review: New Shantypage
From: GUEST,Linda
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 03:17 AM

@Ligher: No not louder, it is when ju like pin point that word, you put wieght on the word... Hmm there is a swedish word, but I forgot it...
But its like imagien you are going to pull something and you say "And PULL, and PULL". The pull will be stronger but dosnet have to be particulary louder, you just pronaunce it harder.

@Gibb: Oh thats a great project!
I hadnt really come over any swedish shanties before (like the ones still on your list I reconize like Albertina (Skonnert Albertina), En sjöman älskar havet våg och O du glade sjöman) I dont really think is shanties but more song about sailors. But I can happily sing the ones I know on your list that I know if you dont have the tune :D
I do know a norwiegen that I will put up on the webpage soon... Maybe you got it, it starts with:

Solo: I Amsterdam i Holland låg ein god og gammal brigg
Ref.: HEAVE AWAY,SANTY ANA
Solo: Forsliten var dens skrog og forsliten var den rigg
Ref.: HEAVE AWAY, MY BOYS, FOR MEXICO


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Subject: RE: Review: New Shantypage
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 03:56 AM

Hey Linda,

Stan Hugill's shanty collection -- the complete one -- has many Swedish and Norsk shanties. Many of them are simply taken from older shanty collections like one called "Opsang fra Seilskibstiden" (by Brochmann, 1916) and another, "Sång under Segel". Hugill gives all the tunes, too. Most likely, you have the "abridged" (shorter) version of Hugill's book -- from which someone removed all of the Scandinavian and German songs!

I can understand the German ones, ~OK~, but the Swedish and Norwegian are really difficult for me because I don't know those languages. However, as I have been learning those, I *think* I am getting a *little* bit better, and I am also learning some Swedish/Norwegian in the process. I welcome your feedback, too! I know that my pronunciation is bad, and I am not trying to be "perfect," but if anything is REALLY bad and incorrect, please feel free to tell me! As I say, at this point I am only trying to *learn*; I don't expect to be taken seriously as a singer of those languages.

AND, you may also feel free to contribute to my series -- but you would need to see the version given by Hugill (or in Sång under Segel).

On your project, one feedback I would give is just encouragement for you to sing your own choice of lyrics. What Hugill has given is only a suggestion of lyrics. They were *not* a firm set of lyrics that he sang nor heard sung. He combined them from various sources, and he is just offering them to give ideas.

Please keep us updated on your blog, and good luck on a fun project!

Gibb

P.S. The song you have quoted is of course the shanty "Santy Ana." However, the solo verses have been borrowed from the ballad of "Svineper" or "Den Gamla Briggen," both of which Hugill gives in independent forms. I think what happened is that the editor Brochmann, and *maybe* sailors, set the Norwegian lyrics to the English shanty.


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Subject: RE: Review: New Shantypage
From: GUEST,Linda
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 07:01 AM

Gibb: Which one is the complete hugill? I have shanties from the seven sea, but I have only seen (so far) one scandinavian song, so if that is the complete one can you point me to the right direction?

About "den gamla briggen" I think that lyric is taken from the norwegian version. For someone who doesnt speak the both laugage I guess it looks very much like swedish, but much of seems too me to be norwegian thats just sing in an swedish tone. I don't have time to point it out right know, but I will :)

I think I have have sång unde segel in any case, many of those you list there is old traditional swedish songs that most people know the tune, so I could give you the tune if you dont have it :)


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Subject: RE: Review: New Shantypage
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 07:39 AM

Ah! You mean you *emphasize* the word "heard"!


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Subject: RE: Review: New Shantypage
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 07:50 AM

Charley, Stan Hugill collected it as 'I heard I heard the old man say '
from his friend Harding, if it's good enough for Stan, it's good enough for anyone.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Review: New Shantypage
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 02:53 PM

GUEST,Linda, I like your webpage. I am glad you told Mudcatters about it. I hope you will update this thread as you add to the webpage. That will remind us to look at your new additions.


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Subject: RE: Review: New Shantypage
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 03:16 PM

Linda,

You have the abridged version, published 1994 by Mystic Seaport. It is still available for sale (new).

It contains about 274 shanties. Not counting variant versions, that is about 222.

The complete version of Shanties from the Seven Seas was published first in 1961. It is out of print, however, one can often find it in libraries, to borrow.

It contains about 416 shanties (and some more non-shanties). Not counting variant versions, that is about 323. About 30 of them are Scandinavian, 13 German, 11 French, 5 Welsh.

The one you have is VERY good to start with. Most shanties were in English, so it is perfect. However, *if* you are also interested in non-English shanties, the complete version is useful.

All of the tunes are already written down in Hugill's book. For *my* project, the goal has been to study what *Hugill* wrote, therefore I want to use the tunes he gives, not tunes from elsewhere. However, I do also compare tunes, etc. from elsewhere.

There may be some truth in what you say that the Scandinavian songs are "sailor songs" rather than "shanties," by certain definitions. However, these songs, according to the authors of these books, were used for work (no matter where they came from originally), so by our modern definition they are shanties, too.

Yes, "Den Gamla Briggen" is Norwegian. What I was saying was that the solo Norske verses of "Den Gamla Briggen" were taken and added to the English shanty-form "Santy Anna."


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