Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune

matt milton 12 Aug 11 - 10:05 AM
GUEST,leeneia 12 Aug 11 - 10:18 AM
matt milton 12 Aug 11 - 10:29 AM
treewind 12 Aug 11 - 10:54 AM
GUEST,leeneia 12 Aug 11 - 11:28 AM
matt milton 12 Aug 11 - 11:35 AM
Richard Bridge 12 Aug 11 - 12:00 PM
Richard Bridge 12 Aug 11 - 01:14 PM
treewind 12 Aug 11 - 01:48 PM
GUEST,leeneia 12 Aug 11 - 01:59 PM
treewind 12 Aug 11 - 02:46 PM
Richard from Liverpool 12 Aug 11 - 03:35 PM
Richard Bridge 12 Aug 11 - 04:12 PM
GUEST 12 Aug 11 - 04:57 PM
treewind 12 Aug 11 - 07:23 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:





Subject: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: matt milton
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 10:05 AM

There's an interesting, though probably only to geeky-sound-engineer types, article in this month's issue of Sound On Sound magazine, in their 'Mix Rescue' feature.

The Wolf's Head & Vixen Morris Band get their home recording given a professional going-over. I'm not sure what the particular morris tune is - I don't recognise it. It's just called 'Lament'

The article goes through what the mag's resident "Mix Doctor" did. He uses an exhaustive panoply of Autotune, radical re-placements of drum hits, timing corrections, altering where instruments come in and depart etc etc to turn a home-recorded mix into the sort of professional mix you might hear on Radio 2 or wherever...

Quite instructive to see what an interventionist mixer given carte blanche can do to a piece of music in 2011.

The article's only available to read in the magazine, but you can listen to the "before" and "after" file, if you're interested, here (scroll down about halfway to Mix Rescue reader remixes):

http://www.cambridge-mt.com/MikeSenior.htm


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 10:18 AM

Thanks, Matt. That's interesting. I can really hear the difference in the tuning.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: matt milton
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 10:29 AM

yes, well, autotune's something I really detest, and I can normally spot it on vocalists. The 'Glee' TV programme being the most glaringly obvious offender. It adds a horrible digital glissando to vocals, which makes you feel like someone's pouring a milkshake down your neck.

But I must admit, I can't hear it at all on the remix of that morris tune. It just seems to correct the pitch without any audible side-effects.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: treewind
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 10:54 AM

The original is *so* out of tune that autotune could only improve it. I agree that autotune is often noticeable on pop vocals, but that's because it's routinely overdone as an effect.

They could have cleaned up the bagpipe drones at the start a bit more.

Apart from the obvious re-arrangement, they also re-timed the drum hits, which sharpened things up a lot, but again only because it was so sloppy to begin with.

Autotuning like that needs each track to be recorded separately, either one at a time or with very good separation in the studio - otherwise an autotuned instrument will clash with its differently tuned bleed though another instrument's mic, making a very messy mix.

I don't recognise "Lament" as a morris tune - does anyone know where it comes from?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 11:28 AM

I suppose the auto-tune worked well because they aren't singing any lyrics. The music of whistles has got to be far simpler than the sound of someone singing, where we are sensitive to vowel sounds, etc.

I'm a recorder player, and I've gone to some really good workshops. If Wolf's Head wanted to have a more professional sound (and they may choose not to), it would be a good idea to have only one D whistle playing at a time. It is almost impossible to play 2 high whistles in unison and in tune. That's because on the higher notes the vibrating air column is so short that the slightest change in air pressure changes the pitch. They might try playing a D whistle and an alto whistle together.

I went to YouTube and found some videos of Wolf's Head and Vixen playing and dancing. They do a good job. I like their interesting, sexy tunes.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: matt milton
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 11:35 AM

Yes, to be fair to Wolf's Head, the magazine article makes it very clear that they ran into problems specifically because they recorded the instruments one at a time, wearing headphones, to a click track. i.e. doing something that didn't play to their strengths.

If you're used to playing live as an ensemble, this can be a very difficult thing to do. I personally find recording while wearing headphones to be very unnatural. You're just not hearing yourself the way you normally do. Pitching's difficult.

With acoustic instruments, and bands whose strength is playing live, there's a lot to be said for just micing the whole ensemble with two good omnidirectional microphones. And maybe hedge your bets with 1 or 2 extra up-close mics for the lead melody instruments.

I still find it rather staggering to hear what a good mixing engineer can do though. There's another "before and after" on that same page of a rock band called Free Radicals. The difference between their original and the remix is almost absurd.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 12:00 PM

I know some of WHV. I'll ask about "Lament".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 01:14 PM

From a mamber of WHV:


"The Lament tune was written by a former member of the side Richard Reader .Im sure he could shed some light on it for you! :)"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: treewind
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 01:48 PM

"I personally find recording while wearing headphones to be very unnatural."

Fair enough. I agree - I have horrendous problems playing with cans on, especially on cello. Apart from the fact that it just feels weird and they physically get in the way (the latter is less of a problem with other instruments), it's well documented that our hearing of pitch is bent by varying sound levels, and inexperienced players don't know to be fussy about sound levels in headphones - time getting that right is well spent.

Playing to a click track is another nightmare, one that I've got slightly more used to but it's still an unpleasant experience.

The advantage of recording that way is that repairs can be done afterwards, but it takes a lot of time.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 01:59 PM

Thanks for the info about the tune, Richard.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: treewind
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 02:46 PM

Thanks from me too about the tune info, especially as I was the one who asked....
I've also found WHV on You Tube and enjoyed their music, and I'd better apologise in case I came across as rather over-critical in my first post. Their musicians have my full sympathy for having to work under difficult conditions.

I recorded the Pig Dyke Molly band and we had everybody playing together in one room. Much easier to do, but your options are much more limited at mixdown time. Fortunately we don't have instruments that go out of tune and there's not too many of us.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: Richard from Liverpool
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 03:35 PM

These things are bound to be a matter of personal taste, but I found the second (pimped up) version more boring than the first version.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 04:12 PM

A propos, if you do need a very able and hitech piano accordian player for recording I recommend Blossom (Peter Currie) from Bishop Gundulf and Skinner's Rats - was in the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band for a year or thereabouts, played the ALbert Hall when he was with "the Nervous System" and almost all of his instruments have electric out and quite a few Midi out - disconcerting to look at a squeezebox and hear a banjo!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 04:57 PM

"they recorded the instruments one at a time, wearing headphones, to a click track."

No wonder they couldn't play in tune, if they didn't have the chance to hear one another.

I still maintain that it's dangerous to play 2 high whistles at once.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Tech: Mixing (& autotuning!) a Morris tune
From: treewind
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 07:23 PM

Apart from the first to record, they should all have been able to hear heard the instruments already recorded.

It's still hard - if you are out of tune with the pre-recorded instruments it's not as easy to tell whether you are sharp or flat when you are hearing both through the same headphones.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 21 May 6:32 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.