BS: Idiots in the USA

Subject: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: michaelr
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 01:13 AM

Results from the Iowa "straw poll" are in, and Michele Bachmann got top honors. The craziest of all the nutjobs running is the favorite of the electorate.

God save us all.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 01:31 AM

Let her beat Romney. Her getting the nomination would be the best possible thing for the Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 03:46 AM

Does anyone really think that if Bachmann does get the nomination that voters in the general election would vote for her? Some states in the US have binding votes in primaries, but primaries are just that. They are primaries--and party specific. Does anyone really think Bachmann is a threat to Obama? The woman is an idiot with some cash behind her. Good that this happens now because it will be necessary for the Dems to have a good loom at the state of the nation and the relative anger that is out there with some Republicans. There is an equal amount of anger out there with democrats. Paul received almost an equal number of votes as Bachmann. Please don't say the sky is falling, because it ain't. IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 05:21 AM

From outside the USA the idea that she has any credibility is amazing and alarming.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 05:29 AM

Well, people here in Canada voted for Stockwell Day and Stephen Harper, so folks who like tea party politicos do not surprise me in the least, Richard.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 06:40 AM

But even by the standards of the UK's public school loonies she is a loony's loony! I do, however, take your point that no-one over lost a fortune by understimating people. Hence, for example, the thing that thinks it's a political party of which we do not speak. But aren't the people participating in the current US events supposed to be those better informed about politics?

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 06:56 AM

Just so you'll know - When Gov Rick Perry tossed his hat in the ring yesterday he quoted one of his heros. Margaret Thatcher.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: jacqui.c
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 07:19 AM

They elected the shrub - twice........

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 07:21 AM

"Full Civic Literacy Exam (from our 2008 survey)

Are you more knowledgeable than the average citizen? The average score for all 2,508 Americans taking the following test was 49%; college educators scored 55%. Can you do better? Questions were drawn from past ISI surveys, as well as other nationally recognized exams."

I just took the 33 question quiz and scored 27/33 or 81.82%. I'm a Canuck. BTW, I doubt that given a similar test about Canada we would fare any better than our neighbours to the south (and northwest). That's for Ebbie :-).

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 09:08 AM

The people who vote in primaries here are traditionally the 'politically active'. In recent years, this has morphed into the 'politically extreme', and the earlier the primary the more extreme the participants. Regrettably, the overall result is that the center, where most people really are, is often not particularly represented by the candidate of either party.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 09:20 AM

Lets see???

Bachmann: Tea-liban Party

Paul: Wacko Party

Perry: Secessionist Party

Bottom line: right, righter and rightest and all wrong, wrong, wrong...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 09:27 AM

Remember that the Republican/Tea Party gang are so fractured now that no matter who is nominated on the Republican side they won't be conservative enough for some. The Tea Party will run a third candidate and split the vote enough to re-elect the incumbent.



D

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: olddude
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 10:01 AM

David Gregory on meet the press this morning just ate her alive with his questioning and past quotes of hers

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: saulgoldie
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 10:15 AM

I keep thinking of how skewed and unrepresentative of the USA is the group that "voted" in the straw poll. I also keep thinking of how so many among the media mention this, and yet *keep giving it such an undeserved amount of attention.* I mean, what if they gave a straw poll and nobody came?

I think the parties should conspire together--and they have co-conspired before; there IS precedent--to release Iowa from the primary process.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: olddude
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 10:30 AM

Until we get back to the parties like our fathers and grandfathers had, we will continue this down spiral. Today it is not about the people, it is about money, power, and party greed ... very very sad

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: josepp
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 10:53 AM

Primary and straw voters are not an intelligent lot. Back in the '08 election, a lot of the republicans in oline forums were bragging about how they voted for Obama--the reason being that there was no way a black man could get elected and so they were taking away votes from Hillary Clinton thereby increasing McCain's chances. Others told them that Obama in all likelihood would win the nomination and the election but were laughed at and mocked.   I think part of their utter hatred of Obama is that they helped elect him and they can't live it down.

So don't mind the preliminaries. Besides, Bachmann getting the nod is the worst thing that could happen to them. But you can't tell them that either. Hell, some are even telling me that they'll be having the last laugh when everybody has to say "President Palin" after 2012. Yes, really!

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Alice
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 10:53 AM

In George Washington's farewell address, he warned about the dangers of political parties forming in the US.

CLICK

"...20 I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the state, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party, generally.

21 This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.

22 The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism.

...24 It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another..."

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 11:43 AM

It should be a warning that George W. Bush was propelled into the presidency by a crooked Supreme Court and misguided supporters, not to mention election fraud.

This could happen by a Perry, Bachmann or (?) presidency.

If you follow the religious logic, god must hate democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: GUEST,David E.
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 12:12 PM

I'm not sure what bothers me more, the pompous conservatives, the smug liberals or the media bait that each so eagerly rise to. We haven't had anyone in the White House who was actually qualified to be President for two decades now and it doesn't look like that's going to change any time soon. Hate to say it, but I think we get what we deserve.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 12:12 PM

Bachmann is Palin lite.   And Perry trumps Bachmann on almost all issues.   Let's see what happens when she runs against him.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 12:19 PM

Two Decades? You are saying that Ronald Reagan was the last qualified President.

Uh... OK.


Bachmann is Palin times three.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: saulgoldie
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 12:21 PM

Once again, from Andy Borowitz:


S & P Downgrades Iowa's IQ
Straw Poll 'Alarms' Ratings Agency

AMES, IOWA (The Borowitz Report) – Calling the results of today's Iowa straw poll "alarming," Standard and Poor's took the unprecedented action of downgrading Iowa's IQ.

While the effects of such an extraordinary measure are hard to predict, experts say the IQ downgrade could result in Iowans having difficulty completing sentences or operating a television remote.

"This downgrade would be very upsetting to Republicans in Iowa," said an S & P spokesman. "Fortunately, there's no way they'll understand it."

The winner in the straw poll, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn), gave a rousing victory speech that was simulcast in English across the state.

But there may be tough sledding ahead for Rep. Bachmann, as a new poll shows her losing support to Texas Governor Rick Perry among voters who describe themselves as morons.

Gov. Perry kicked off his presidential campaign today in South Carolina, unveiling a new stump speech in which he promised to repeal the twentieth century.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 12:24 PM

After the last "cowboy" are we ready for another rerun of "Death Valley"... I mean, the John Wayne model hasn't been all that successful over the last 30 years...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 12:26 PM

Perry would be good for Obama too. I can see the Democratic Party ads now.

ANOTHER Texas Governor without international credentials?????????

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 12:29 PM

"The craziest of all the nutjobs running is the favorite of the electorate."

THE electorate?

"With nearly 17,000 votes cast, the Minnesota congresswoman received 4,823 votes in Ames--narrowly beating Paul by just 152 votes."

There are maybe 200 million of us who 'could' vote next year..... this poll is looking at a few thousand of the most rabid Republicans...in Iowa! Do beware of conclusions................

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 12:36 PM

Iowa, a state that voted for Obama in 2008. I think it is fairly safe to assume that most of those 4,823, were not among those who voted for Hope & Change.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 12:45 PM

One of the things Republicans have learned in recent years is that a candidate doesn't have to be particularly intelligent as long as he can stick to the talking points that are prepared for him by his staff. They were perfectly happy with Ronald Reagan the "great communicator"—a bit less so with George W. Bush, not because of his lack of intellect, but because he didn't stick to the conservative agenda quite firmly enough. Both were happy to leave the actual decision-making to the likes of Oliver North and Dick Cheney, and that's just fine with the conservative powers-that-be.

Michelle Bachman said some pretty idiotic things when she was merely a member of Congress, but now that she is seriously running for president, she has raised enough money to hire a good PR staff, speech writers, debate coaches, etc., and she follows their advice, and no longer seems quite the idiot she once was. Her success as a candidate will depend on whether reporters and opponents will be able to get her "off script."

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 12:48 PM

I don't think Bachmann will be able to outrun her misstatements of the past.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 12:51 PM

if Bachmann does get the nomination that voters in the general election would vote for her?

You betcha, Bruce. In a New York nanosecond.

As Mark twain said (paraphrase- I can't easilly find the exact quote):

The United States has consistently refused to elect a Chief Executive of gold when it could get one of tin.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 01:04 PM

Bachmann isn't tin though. She is depleted uranium.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 01:30 PM

I shudder when I look at the list of declared Republicans this year.

They are running a bunch of people with attitudes and opinions, but few with competence and understanding of the Constitution, the World, and History.
   It scares me to imagine any of them coping with what Obama has to do every day..(and half the nights!)

   They have 'ideas', but such shallow 'understanding' that I have this image of bowling while blindfolded. "Aim me toward the pins, boys....I'll hit something!"

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 02:03 PM

GUEST 999, thank you for alerting me to the "Full Civic Literacy Exam." MOST interesting and enlightening, and it also lets you know your areas of weakness so you take the necessary steps to correct them. I just took the exam (takes about ten to fifteen minutes) and scored 28/33 or 84.85%. Compared to the average, I'm rather proud of that, but now I know what I need to read up on.

If anyone wants to check up on themselves (a VERY good thing, especially for every American voter, to do), here it is:

Full Civic Literacy Exam.

VERY interesting!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 02:21 PM

I got the same score.

Guessed right on Lincoln Douglas.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: bobad
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 02:28 PM

I scored 27 out of 33 or 81.82%.

As a Canadian with, what I consider to be, marginal knowledge of American civics and government I find it appalling that Americans, on the average, scored 49% and especially that college educators scored only 55%. What does that say about the quality of education in the US?

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 02:33 PM

"Palin times three".   Right. So far Bachmann has won in one area of Minnesota and a contest in Iowa where Palin did not compete.

Palin proved her appeal in most areas of the country in 2008.

We should be glad she did not run in the 2012 campaign.

But we should not be at all glad that Perry is running. And his candidacy is why Palin will not run.   Bachmann's candidacy would have melted away had it just been her vs Palin.   But Palin knows she cannot compete with Perry as a governor.   And Bachmann has no chance--since she has no record of governing.

Now we can watch Bachmann's campaign disintegrate as her ostensible followers desert her for Perry--who has more than one string to his bow.   Especially the economy.    Which Bachmann does not.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: pdq
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 02:44 PM

Well I got 31 out of 33.

Only missed...

"Free markets typically secure more economic prosperity than government's centralized planning because..."
   
"The phrase that in America there should be a "wall of separation" between church and state appears in..."

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 02:45 PM

Got 96.97% correct on 2008 civics exam.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 02:51 PM

The "wall of separation" question--which I did get right (only got one wrong--
is one Mudcatters should pay close attention to.

And awful lot of them think it's in the Constitution.   Which is a big reason so many are off base on one of their favorite obsessions.

Not that a "civics test" is likely to cause much enlightenment around here on that topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: saulgoldie
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 03:11 PM

I did sufficiently well. "How big is it?" Big enough. "No brag; just fact." As the late Walter Brennan usta say.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: josepp
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 03:50 PM

The Guns of Will Sonnett

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 03:53 PM

29 of 33. I would quarrel with a couple of the economic answers; there seems to be a bit of ideological input into the questionaire.

But on my part a reading of some of the basic foundations is called for. There are a couple that I should have known.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: saulgoldie
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 03:59 PM

"there seems to be a bit of ideological input into the questionaire."

Yes, I read into the website a bit, and it seems to be a right wing portal. Nary a progressive among the bunch.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 04:18 PM

"I would quarrel with a couple of the economic answers;"

I wouldn't but I got them all right. The only parts I missed were the ones asking to specify which "right" is in which amendment or speech. I know my rights. But I don't agonize over who said exactly what exactly when.

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: michaelr
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 04:23 PM

It is absolutely ODIOUS to me to see a "Bachmann for President" banner at the top of my thread. Max, would you please remove it?

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 04:37 PM

I think Bachmann will be submerged at the convention. I look for a Romney-Perry (gods help us!) matchup in the final voting.

Interesting- saulg. thought the bias was right wing and I thought it was too much to the left.

Subject: RE: BS: Idiots in the USA
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 05:13 PM

There is every liklihood that Perry and Bachman can beat Obama.

We know that assasination works, we know that Diebold worked and we know that new election laws work. We also are reminded by Stringsinger that the SUpreme COurt can also elect a president.

So I repeat, it is time to see what their kind of America will do to you and your kids.