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Obit: Jerry Leiber RIP August 2011

GUEST,Mary Katherine, sans cookie 22 Aug 11 - 04:29 PM
open mike 22 Aug 11 - 04:54 PM
Wesley S 22 Aug 11 - 04:59 PM
Arthur_itus 22 Aug 11 - 05:31 PM
Genie 22 Aug 11 - 06:05 PM
SINSULL 22 Aug 11 - 06:13 PM
Genie 22 Aug 11 - 06:18 PM
Larry The Radio Guy 22 Aug 11 - 09:15 PM
catspaw49 22 Aug 11 - 09:50 PM
Genie 22 Aug 11 - 10:35 PM
katlaughing 22 Aug 11 - 11:28 PM
Ron Davies 23 Aug 11 - 12:00 AM
Larry The Radio Guy 23 Aug 11 - 12:13 AM
GUEST 23 Aug 11 - 02:14 AM
alanabit 23 Aug 11 - 06:02 AM
fat B****rd 23 Aug 11 - 09:46 AM
Roger the Skiffler 23 Aug 11 - 09:50 AM
GUEST,Josepp 23 Aug 11 - 12:07 PM
Stringsinger 23 Aug 11 - 12:10 PM
goatfell 23 Aug 11 - 12:30 PM
Genie 23 Aug 11 - 05:02 PM
GUEST,josepp 23 Aug 11 - 06:25 PM
Genie 23 Aug 11 - 09:21 PM
GUEST,sixtieschick 24 Aug 11 - 12:32 AM
Genie 24 Aug 11 - 03:41 AM
Roger the Skiffler 24 Aug 11 - 04:33 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 24 Aug 11 - 08:25 AM
s&r 24 Aug 11 - 11:39 AM
BTNG 24 Aug 11 - 12:48 PM
GUEST 24 Aug 11 - 03:48 PM
Stringsinger 24 Aug 11 - 05:58 PM
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Subject: Obit: Jerry Leiber RIP August 2011
From: GUEST,Mary Katherine, sans cookie
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 04:29 PM

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/source-songwriter-jerry-leiber-dies-at-78-20110822

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/source-songwriter-jerry-leiber-dies-at-78-20110822


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: open mike
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 04:54 PM

Jerry Leiber, one of the most important songwriters in the history of rock & roll – whose 60-year partnership with Mike Stoller produced "Stand By Me," "Hound Dog," "Jailhouse Rock," "Young Blood," "On Broadway," "Yakety-Yak," "Stuck in the Middle with You," and countless other classics – has died of cardiopulmonary failure. He was 78.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 04:59 PM

What an unbeliveably important songwriter he was for rock and roll. He wrote dozens of classics.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 05:31 PM

Brilliant songwriter Thank you for all the songs you wrote. Most of them real favourites of mine.

May you rest in peace.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: Genie
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 06:05 PM

I just heard this on the news, and I'm much saddened. Lieber and Stoller made huge contributions to American music in the rock, pop, and rhythm & blues genres.

My condolences to his family and to us fans.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 06:13 PM

He was on board the Andrea Doria the night it collided with another ship. I remeber reading an account of that night. He had no idea how bad it was. Just got off and went about his business.
More useless information.
RIP and thank you for all your wonderful music but especially for the Black Leather Jacket - a classic.
SINS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: Genie
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 06:18 PM

I mention the other genres because a number of their songs really were not "rock" as they were originally written and arranged.   "Hound Dog" was a blues or r&b song written for Big Mama Thornton, and "Kansas City" was written specifically for West Coast blues/R&B artist Little Willie Littlefield (and also recorded as a blues by Peggy Lee). And a number of their songs, e.g., "Loving You," could hardly be called anything but pop.   I think that their versatility was a big part of their genius.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 09:15 PM

If you want to experience some of their ultimate wit and genius, listen to an LP from 1979 (I believe) called Mirrors.

Joan MOrris also did an lp of some of the more artful Leiber and Stoller songs.

Professor Hauptman's Performing Dogs----a great expose of the rise of Nazism in the U.S.

Learning to Begin Again --   an almost frightening (yet humorous) description of our obsession with "surfaces".

Is That All There Is?    # 1 on the Existentialist's hit parade.

If they hadn't written all that great novelty stuff in the 50's, Leiber and Stoller probably would have gained a reputation for their "art songs".


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 09:50 PM

One cannot say enough about this man and his partner's contribution to the fabric of American Pop. Thanks for all of it......


Spaw


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: Genie
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 10:35 PM

Larry, I think you're right. I'm betting most people don't have any idea how many, and which, well-known songs Lieber and Stoller wrote or co-wrote. Songwriters seldom get the recognition that the performers do.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 11:28 PM

You can say that, again, Gene. I am woefully ignorant of most songwriters of well known songs. Thankful to hear of Lieber and Stoller's obviously huge contributions. Sorry to hear of his passing.

Thanks for the continued education, Mudcat.

kat


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 12:00 AM

That's a great Rolling Stone article    Never knew that Elvis put the rabbit in "Hound Dog"---to LIeber's eternal disgust.    Though he also says the fact it sold 7 million copies took a bit of the sting out.

So many all-time classics they wrote.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 12:13 AM

Correction from my last message: The Mirrors LP was in the early 1970's, and it was Lieber and Stoller songs sung by Peggy Lee. Incredible!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 02:14 AM

Stiller wrote the tunes, and they were the important bit.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 06:02 AM

They were important, but without the ear for language of "Yakkety Yak" and "Charlie Brown", for instance, they would have both been lesser songs. I mourn the passing of a great writer, who was part of a landmark in popular music.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: fat B****rd
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 09:46 AM

The best ever rocknroll/rnb writng team. I go with all the above and will play my Coasters collection tonight by way of homage. RIP Mr. Lieber.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 09:50 AM

I bet Big Mama Thornton is waiting to let him know what she thought of him giving Hound Dog to Elvis!
Great writer, the soundtrack of my teens.

RtS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: GUEST,Josepp
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 12:07 PM

Is that all there is? If that's all there is, my friend, then let's keep dancing. Let's break out the booze and have a ball--if that's all there is.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 12:10 PM

I knew these guys. Jerry went to my Junior High School and High School. He was originally a drummer.

Mike was a piano player....be bop jazz mostly.

They played at UÇLA frat parties in L.A. They were nice guys.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: goatfell
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 12:30 PM

RIP so sad


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: Genie
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 05:02 PM

GUEST, I disagree that it was the music that was "the important part" of Lieber & Stoller's music.   I think that may be true of some of their songs (e.g., Stand By Me) - melodies, rhythm, arrangement more important than the lyrics - but not of others. "Kansas City," for example is a pretty standard blues or r&b tune (whether done as a blues or as pop/rock) but the lyrics are what makes the song distinctive. I'd say the same thing for songs like "Love Potion No. 9" and "I'm A Woman" and "Is That All There Is" and some others. And songs like "I Who Have Nothing" are probably equally memorable for music and lyrics.

Lieber and Stiller both made great contributions to American music.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 06:25 PM

"Stand By Me" was written by Ben E. King who wrote it for the Drifters to perform after the manager booted him from the band because he was still friends with the guys. The manager rejected the song and so King recorded it for a solo project in which Lieber & Stoller were the producers. They arranged it but did not write it.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: Genie
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 09:21 PM

That seems to be somewhat in debate. Here's what Wikipedia currently says about the songs origins (with references cited):

[[ According to the documentary History of Rock 'n' Roll, Ben E. King had no intention of recording the song himself when he wrote it.[2] King had written the song for The Drifters, who passed on the chance to record it. It was not until after the "Spanish Harlem" recording session that he had some studio time left over. The session's producers, Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller, asked if he had any more songs and King played "Stand by Me" on the piano for them. They liked it and called the studio musicians back in to record it.

Mike Stoller recalls it differently: "I remember arriving at our office as Jerry and Ben were working on lyrics for a new song. King had the beginnings of a melody that he was singing a capella. I went to the piano and worked up the harmonies, developing a bass pattern that became the signature of the song. Ben and Jerry quickly finished the lyrics…"[3] The fact that arranger Stan Applebaum couldn't possibly have dashed off an entire string chart at the end of a session, much less copied and distributed all the parts, supports this less dramatic version of the events.]]

It sounds to me like Ben E. King did write the original song "Stand By Me" - probably without the distinctive "signature" bass riff of the song and (which to me is an important part of the "music" of this song).   Lieber and King may well have rewritten some of the original lyrics too.    When people collaborate on songs it's not always easy to to say exactly who "wrote" what part.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Lieber RIP August 2011
From: GUEST,sixtieschick
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 12:32 AM

Roger the Skiffler "I bet Big Mama Thornton is waiting to let him know whatshe thought of him giving Hound Dog to Elvis!"

Roger, they didn't "give" the song to Elvis. In fact, they were outraged that a white man got all the credit and money from the song that they specifically wrote for Big Mama Thornton. Her rendition is priceless. Read "Hound Dog: The Autobiography of Lieber and Stoller." They were a team who broke long-standing racial barriers in music.

R.I.P.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Leiber RIP August 22, 2011
From: Genie
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 03:41 AM

There's a lot more on Lieber & Stoller's writing "Hound Dog" for Big Mama Thornton and her being furious when Elvis got all the fame for his version (with people thinking of it as "an Elvis Presley song") in this thread: Origins: Hound Dog.

Here are the lyrics usually sung by Willie May Thornton (as a rather slow blues:
   Jim Dixon's post of Mama Thornton's Hound Dog lyrics

"Though the song was written by the New York songwriting team of Lieber and Stoller ..., it is said that Big Mama changed a lot of the lyrics, making the song distinctly her own and bringing the sexual implications to the foreground.

And here are the lyrics as Elvis recorded them (a faster song with more repetitive lyric lines)


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Leiber RIP August 2011
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 04:33 AM

sixstieschick is right, of course, but Mama always resented Elvis' success with the song, continuing to sing "The Original Hound Dog" till the end of her career. It would have been more accurate to say Elvis would have had to cross the street if he saw her coming! For those who don't know her, Mama was a large lady who favoured men's pinstriped suits and fedora hats, carried a straight razor in her top pocket and in the immortal words of George Melly "looked like Sonny Liston only not so effeminate". She played a mean blues harp as well.

RtS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Leiber RIP August 2011
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 08:25 AM

I was recently watching a programme/interview with Lieber and Stoller on UK tv, and Jerry Lieber looked rather fragile.
Somebody mentioned Kansas City, and it appears that Jerry envisaged a pretty staightforward blues melody but Mike insisted that the lyrics needed a distinctive melody for it to stand out from all the other blues tunes. He was right!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Leiber RIP August 2011
From: s&r
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 11:39 AM

The original

Stu


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Leiber RIP August 2011
From: BTNG
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 12:48 PM

My favourite Leiber and Stoller

a not bad version of the song


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Leiber RIP August 2011
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 03:48 PM

I believe Leiber grew up in Baltimore City. Just thought you ought to know.

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: Obit: Jerry Leiber RIP August 2011
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 05:58 PM

When I was in L.A., I knew these guys from the frat parties Mike played at U.C.L.A. and Jerry from Bancroft Jr. High and Fairfax High.

I used to sing a song in those days written by a university professor from Oklahoma,
"Hound Dog, Bay at the Moon". (Cisco Houston recorded it)   They heard me sing it and I often wondered............
Early 1950's.


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