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Tune Req: Hot Codlings

GUEST,NickN 24 Aug 11 - 01:04 PM
Manitas_at_home 25 Aug 11 - 07:26 AM
GUEST 25 Aug 11 - 10:18 AM
Manitas_at_home 25 Aug 11 - 10:50 AM
Manitas_at_home 25 Aug 11 - 10:53 AM
GUEST 25 Aug 11 - 01:02 PM
Artful Codger 26 Aug 11 - 05:20 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 26 Aug 11 - 02:56 PM
Artful Codger 26 Aug 11 - 03:23 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 26 Aug 11 - 03:43 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 26 Aug 11 - 06:49 PM
GUEST,NickN 27 Aug 11 - 12:53 PM
GUEST,Joe Scallan 30 Aug 14 - 04:26 PM
GUEST,Rahere 31 Aug 14 - 01:00 PM
GUEST 03 Jun 16 - 06:28 PM
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Subject: Tune Req: Hot Codlings
From: GUEST,NickN
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 01:04 PM

I see there was a request a while ago for a tune called 'Codlings', but I am trying to find the tune to John Whitaker's 'Hot Codlings'. First line begins, 'A little old woman her living she got'.

The song was apparently a huge favourite with Joe Grimaldi, the 19C clown. The words have survived - songsters and broadsides - but no-one has the tune; has anyone here got a clue? As a fall-back question, has anyone transcribed 'Tippity Witchet' into ABC? This song was Grimaldi's encore to 'Hot Codlings' I believe.

Many thanks for everyone's indulgence.
Nick


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Hot Codlings
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 07:26 AM

The song was sung on a documentary about him so the tune must be known.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Hot Codlings
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 10:18 AM

Manitas, Thanks - is the documentary you refer to the illustrated lecture at York last year (on Youtube)? If it is, then the performer used spoken verse with only a chord on the piano at the punchline. If you know of another programme, do you have other details?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Hot Codlings
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 10:50 AM

It was a TV programme quite a few years ago now and I can't remember who it was made by. Scenes included recreations of his act and modern day fans laying sausages on his grave! Have you asked on any Music Hall or Clown forum?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Hot Codlings
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 10:53 AM

The wikipedia page has a link to an mp3 of the tune but I can't play it.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Hot Codlings
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 01:02 PM

The Wikipedia link is dead but I've picked up the MP3 from the cache at archive.org. Sadly, the singer can't sing! It's awful, but it is a start. Thanks again for the input.


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Subject: RE: Hot Codlings
From: Artful Codger
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 05:20 AM

The lyrics for both "Hot Codlin[g]s" and "Typitywichet"/"Tippety-witchet" were written for Grimaldi by Charles [Isaac Mungo] Dibdin, jr, a son of the famed songwriter Charles Dibdin.

In A Book of Scattered Leaves, James G Hepburn writes:
He [Charles Dibdin, Jr.] became proprietor and acting manager of the Sadler's Wells Theatre. "Hot Codlings" apparently dates from the first years of the [19th] century. It was popular for many years as broadside, stage, and parlor ballad. At least a dozen of Dibdin's lyrics came onto the street. They include "Betty Brill," "Giles Scroggin's Ghost," "Kitty of the Clyde," and "Tippetywitchet."
Hepburn goes on to refute John Ashton's supposition that Charles' brother Thomas was the real author and adds: "I am obliged to Alexandra Franklin for identifying Charles Dibdin Jr. as the author of "Hot Codlings." The Bodleian Ballads catalog is in agreement, listing him explicitly as the author in several broadside entries of the song.

Accounts differ on when the song first appeared. Some assert that Grimaldi first sang it "at Christmas" in 1806, in the pantomime Mother Goose, written by Thomas Dibdin (one of Charles jr's twenty-odd siblings), where Grimaldi played Squire Bugle. Others say Grimaldi first sang it in the pantomime of The Talking Bird in 1819, on the night that a boy was crushed. But this later date seems to mark only when the song caught on like wildfire. "Hot Codlins" seems to have enjoyed a revival of popularity in the 1860s, probably by way of Tony Pastor.

I haven't been able to find a score online--or the cached copy of the MP3.

Codlin[g]s are (1) toffee apples, or (2) boiling apples, i.e. apples not ripe enough to eat raw and are fit only to be boiled.

Here are the transcribed lyrics, from a broadside (Bodleian ballad collection, Harding B 11(2415)).


Hot Codlins.

A little old woman a living she got,
By selling hot codlins, hot! hot! hot!
And this little old woman who codlins sold,
Though her codlins were hot, thought she felt herself cold,
So to keep herself warm, she thought it no sin,
To fetch for herself a quartern of ---- Ri, tol, lol, &c.

This little old woman set off in a trot,
To fetch her a quartern of hot! hot! hot!
She swallowed one glass, and it was so nice,
She tipp'd off another in a trice;
The glass she fill'd till the bottle shrunk,
And this little woman they say got ---- Ri, tol, lol, &c.

This little old woman, while muzzy she got,
Some boys stole her codlins, hot! hot! hot!
Powder under her pan put, and in it some stones,        [usually: round stones]
Says the little old woman, "these apples have bones!"
The powder the pan in her face did send,
Which sent the old woman on her latter ---- Ri, tol, lol, &c.

The little old woman then up she got,
All in a fury, hot! hot! hot!
Says she, "Such boys, sure, never were known,
They never will let an old woman alone."
Now here is my moral, around let it buz--
If you wish to sell codlins, never get ---- Ri, tol, lol, &c.


Based on the first line of the third verse, I'm guessing that the last unmentioned word must be "muzz[ed]".

A record at the EFDSS website says that "Hot Codlings" appears with music in the English Song Book (1926), pp. 58-9, edited by Scott; "Sung by Grimaldi, music arranged by William Reeve". [Reeve also wrote the music for "Typitywichet" ca. 1810.]

I have more information on "Typitywichet", but that will have to wait for a later posting.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Hot Codlings
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 02:56 PM

I have the English Song Book and when I've got time I'll post the abc for both tunes.

The text for Hot Codlins is (barring a few orthographic changes) almost identical to that posted above (this woman they say was; and in it round stones).

Mick


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Subject: Typitywichet / Tippety-witchet (C. Dibdin jr)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 03:23 PM

Maurice Willson Disher in Victorian Song: from dive to drawing room (1955):
Wit is one thing, we are always being told, and humour another.
Both can be distinguished in old songs that could not be properly
called comic. What calls for this label is neither the thoughtful
laughter of the one nor the broader animal spirits of the other
but an insistence on jokes. In this sense it began in clown's ditties
like those of Grimaldi. What he made of "Tipitywitchet" with
its hiccup, sneeze, yawn, cry, and laugh, may be guessed. The
word mag, derived from magpie, means chatter:

This very morning handy,
   My malady was such,
I in my tea took brandy,
   And took a drop too much.
(Hiccups) Tol de rol.

But stop! I mustn't mag hard,
   My head aches, if you please,
One pinch of Irish blackguard,
   I'll take to give me ease.
(Sneezes) Tol de rol.

Now I'm quite drowsy growing,
   For this very morn,
I rose while cock was crowing,
   Excuse me if I yawn.
(Yawns) Tol de rol.

I'm not in cue for frolic,
   Can't up my spirits keep,
Love's a windy cholic,
   'Tis that makes me weep.
(Cries) Tol de rol.

I'm not in mood for crying,
   Care's a silly calf;
If to get fat you're trying,
   The only way's to laugh.
(Laughs) Tol de rol.


The song lyrics appear in Vocal Magazine (1815) under the title "A Typitywichet; or, Pantomimical Paroxysms." "Sung with reiterated applause and approbation by Mr. Grimaldi, at various Theatres." Google Books has an entry for a "Typitywichet budget", 1810, listing Joseph Grimaldi and Charles Dibdin as the authors. The lyrics also appear in the Melodist, Vol. 3, under the title "Typitywichet"; Charles Dibdin was one of the main editors of this collection, so this spelling may be taken as the original.

Richard Findlater, in Joe Grimaldi, His Life and Theatre (p. 146) quotes Charles Dibdin thus:
The Songs which I wrote for Grimaldi were of a singular nature, and, generally speaking, unless sung by the Clown of a Pantomime, in Character, lost half their effect: when writing them I had in view much more his peculiarities of what I may call expression, than any literary fame. Many Songs sing well (technically speaking) that would read ill. Even Nonsense, in its place, can have a meaning.
Findlater continues in his own words:
One of the most celebrated of these 'singular' songs was 'A Typitywitchet: or Pantomimical Paroxysms'. It was sung for the first time on 30th July 1811 at Sadler's Wells, in Bang Up: or Harlequin Prime (a satire on the contemporary mania for racing). [Lyrics of the song follow.]
Per OLIS, the Oxford Library has two scores of "Tippity witchet", "composed by W[illiam]. Reeve" ca. 1810.


BTW, "Hot Codlins" has been assigned the Roud number 13942.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Hot Codlings
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 03:43 PM

Here's the abc for Hot Codlins (given as Codlings in the book and reproduced as such below).

Mick



X: 1
T:Hot Codlings
M:2/4
L:1/8
B:English Song Book compiled and edited Harold Scott, London 1925
K:G
N: In the original the word gin was just a dash (as all such terminals are)
N: and the corresponding note was also omitted. I have inserted the G
N: In the refrain line there was only iddy, iddy, iddy in the first half
N: but the music seems to call for an extra one, which I have inserted
N: (The lyrics were not printed under the tune in the book)
D|G/G/B B/B/G|F/F/A A
w:A lit-tle old wom-an her liv-ing she got
c|B/B/G GB|AF D
w:By sell-ing hot cod-lings, hot, hot, hot.
d/d/|d/d/D D/D/d|dG G
w:And this lit-tle old wom-an who cod-lings sold
d/d/|d/d/A Ac|B/B/G HA
w:Though her cod-lings were hot she felt her-self cold
D/D/|E/E/G cB|A/A/G F
w:So to heep her-self warm she thought it no sin
z/E/|FA/A/ dc|B/B/A "<("">)"HG2|
w:To fetch for her-self a quart-ern of (gin)
z2 GB|c/B/A/G/ c/B/A/G/|Gd d/c/B/c/|BA G|]
w:Ri-tol id-dy id-dy id-dy id-dy, Ri tol id-dy id-dy ri tol lay.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Hot Codlings
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 06:49 PM

Here's the tune for Tippitiwitchet from the same source. Again the lyrics are not printed under the music so I've made my own assumptions. In particular in the refrain the Tol lol lol (hiccup) has been repeated which the music seems to imply and in the repetition of the refrain lines there was no note for the final Tol, which I've inserted.

Mick



X: 1
T:Tippitiwitchet
M:2/4
L:1/8
B:English Song Book compiled and edited Harold Scott, London 1925
K:C
N: The lyrics were not printed under the tune in the book, so I've made
N: my own assumptions. In particular the refrain was printed only as:
N: "Tol lol lol (hiccup). Tol lol lol de ro de lay."
N: The music seems to need the repetitions I've included (The note
N: for the word Tol of 2nd and 4th refrain lines was not included - I've assumed it.
N: The rests with "hiccup" under them are where I assume the
N: appropriate noise for each verse is made (hiccup/sneeze/yawn/weep/laugh).
c2 Bd|(cA) G
w:This morn-ing ear_ly
E|cc Bc|d3
w:My mal-a-dy was such
d|ed cB|A d2
w:I in my tea took bran-dy
c/-c/|BG A^F|G3
w:And_ took a drop too much.
c|(Ac) G "_hiccup"Hz/c/|(Ac) G "_hiccup"Hz/
w:Tol lol_ lol Tol lol_ lol
c/|BB/c/ de|d2 |
w:Tol lol lol de rol de lay
c|(Ac) G "_hiccup"Hz/c/|(Ac) G "_hiccup"Hz/
w:Tol lol_ lol Tol lol_ lol
c/|BB/c/ de|c2 |]
w:Tol lol lol de rol de lay


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Hot Codlings
From: GUEST,NickN
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 12:53 PM

Many, many thanks for the replies to this query, especially to Mick Pearce for transcribing the words and melodies. Next time I get stuck with a song, I know where to come.
Thanks again,
Nick


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Hot Codlings
From: GUEST,Joe Scallan
Date: 30 Aug 14 - 04:26 PM

The song (or at least some of it) is sung in the 1948 David Lean film, Oliver Twist. I cannot vouch for the authenticity of the tune used, but I suppose the producers did their research.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Hot Codlings
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 31 Aug 14 - 01:00 PM

And nobody mentions the other sense of "codlin"? Associated with "codpiece", it's male fruit...so when "these apples have bones", you know what the gesture was. It would have been a Max Miller skit long before he did them, pure innocence and utter fun - is there another cant rhyme as well as the obvious one to fill in the gap? I can see one within reach of "shrunk", particularly if performed with a foreign accent.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Hot Codlings
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jun 16 - 06:28 PM

Coddled apples, more formally. So really it should be hot coddlins


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