BS: Travellers?

Subject: BS: Travellers?
From: Big Ballad Singer
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 08:57 PM

I've read, in the "Rape" thread and elsewhere, the term "travellers". It seems that some people here use the term to refer to a specific group of people. Am I reading that right? Are we talking about Gypsies or something?

Forgive my ignorance... I am from the Colonies and not always the fastest on the up-take, especially when it comes to politics and sociological issues. I learn a lot here, by the way; thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 09:11 PM

Gypsies is vaguely like Eskimos... other terms are preferred due to the way the people view and refer to themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 09:41 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Traveller

You can read about them at that link, BBS.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 09:43 PM

Gypsies is vaguely like Eskimos

Except for the lack of seal skins?

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 09:45 PM

*grin*... the 'terms' are categorically similar..(as if I needed to clarify)

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 09:45 PM

I think it's mostly being used as a general grouping which includes Gypsies and Irish Travellers.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 10:14 PM

I dunno about the Eskimo thing but I do know one of them Travellers was Robert E. Lee's horse.......................


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 10:34 PM

Eskimo is considered to be a pejorative term in Canada. Inuit is used instead. FWIW

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 10:41 PM

Many will argue that "Romany" and "Gypsy" require a specific genetic inheritance. The various spellings of "Diddikai" generally refer back to the Romany term for those without that inheritance who lived as the Gypsies did. In Ireland "Tinker" came to refer not specifically to those who mended pots and pans but to similar itinerants. "Pikey" came in the UK and Ireland as a catch-all for "Dids" and "Tinkers". "Traveller" (or in the US "Traveler") is now used to englobe all such and also to include "New Age Travellers" who came out of the 60s and 70s with a travelling habit of life.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 03:14 AM

An RTE (Ireland) television series a few months ago, Blood of the Travellers, looked into where the Travellers came from. Research of the DNA of a diverse group of Travellers showed a separate line that has been extant in Ireland for over a thousand years. It certainly laid to rest the notion that travellers were various groups of people who took to the roads during the famine.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 04:30 AM

A short clip from 'Blood of the Travellers'

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 04:42 AM

This is the story Big Ballad Singer refers to in his opening post. A very shocking story.

There is nothing so sickening as the crime of rape. The story shocked me. I refer to the story Jim Carroll brought to my attention some time back regarding the rape of an 85 year woman and a young child of 13 in Ireland by the same man. It appeared in the Irish Independant on Friday July 17 2009.

"There was one striking feature about the shocking story of Simon McGinley, who on Wednesday was convicted of raping an 85-year old woman.

It is what wasn't reported -- which is that he is a Traveller. Had he been the victim of an attack, his identity as a Traveller would have been all over the media. But he was not the victim. He was the culprit: and thus the almost overwhelming silence about his background.

But no one conversant with the wilder extremes of Traveller behaviour and who heard about what happened in court the other day would be in any doubt about Simon McGinley's origins. It is almost inconceivable that young children from any other background would have been present, as his were (including one in nappies) to hear how he had brutally raped an 85-year-old woman.

Other details confirm this sense of an entirely different moral order. After the trial, his mother abused the victim's adult children, shouting that they should have put their mother in a home. Then there were protests at the refusal of prison officers to let his children speak to him before he was led away. They even shouted: "You didn't murder anyone. You shouldn't have got 21 years."

He himself declared to the victim's offspring: "Just remember. I never done it." (His semen was found on her bed and her injured genitals.)

Later, his mother, Mary McGinley, burst into song outside the courthouse, with a rendition of 'If Tomorrow Never Comes'. Perhaps the strangest aspect to this case was the presence, as a spectator in court, of the woman who McGinley had raped 12 years ago, when she was 13. She, too, is a Traveller. She had been babysitting for the McGinleys in 1997. While driving her home, McGinley violently attacked and raped her. Discovered by his wife in the course of this rape, he drove off naked and assaulted the girl again. She was thrown naked out the van, in front of her mother and his wife. She and her family were threatened with being "cut" -- he always carried a knife -- and told not to report the rape.

She later became famous as the 'Miss C', who went to England for an abortion. And although he was only 25 at the time, the court heard at his first trial that he had a daughter nearly her age.

It is almost impossible to imagine the details of this case occurring within the non-Travelling community, from the wife finding her naked husband raping the 13-year old babysitter, to a 25-year-old man having a child of nearly 13, to his mother singing 'If Tomorrow Never Comes' outside the courtroom in which he had been imprisoned for raping a woman of 85."

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Will Fly
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 05:09 AM

It is almost impossible to imagine the details of this case occurring within the non-Travelling community

It is, of course, possible to imagine the murders committed by Fred and Rose West (for example) in the "non-Travelling" community, or the murders of two little girls in Soham by Ian Huntley - also in the "non-Travelling" community. Or any other of a whole series of abuses and crimes committed by the "non-Travelling" community as detailed in the world's press.

What is stupid is to draw out conclusions from the specific to the general - which is yet another clumsy attempt to demonise a set of people. We don't make the inference that the small community of Soham is composed of murderers, do we? You've had your say about travellers in the Dale Farm thread - why not allow this thread to have a civilised, non-pejorative discussion about the origins of travellers in general - as requested by a 'Catter from the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 05:16 AM

Will,

Hear bloody hear. Show me any crime committed by travelling folk and I'll show you a thousand others ten time worse which have been committed by non-travellers.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 05:18 AM

The comments on this Yahoo link just put up today are the best I have read so far concerning this case, people posting comments with thought and reason behind them, I do hope some can learn from them here.
Well worth taking a moment to read them.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/traveller-families-farm-eviction-showdown-024328044.html

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 05:55 AM

I sincerely wish Mudcat would remove the 'Guest' button, thus ridding it forever of this type of person who uses their site purely to spread hate speech and incite racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 06:34 AM

Well Lizzie, it may be something you could start a thread aboutthe guest button. You could also include a section on members who throw their rattle out of their pram, send endless messages to moderators, crying and stamping their feet and then state publicly they are leaving the forum only to return a few months later, humbled with their tail between their legs, publicly humiliated . No doubt you know the type.

Doesn't really say much about their stamina in the art of debate !

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 06:35 AM

As I said in the other thread, I'll leave you to play with yourself, mate. Have a good day spewing out hatred..

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 06:40 AM

Have a great day Lizzie.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 06:43 AM

You too, Mark....but unlike you, mine won't be filled with trying to incite others to hate.

Oh, and thanks for your 18 'friend' requests on FB, of all your fake pages, but no thanks, I won't be accepting.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Silas
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 06:44 AM

Well Bluesman, your pathetic attempts to divert attention from your rabid postings by picking on a couple of posts by Fred are simply not working, so leave it out eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 06:54 AM

Yes, and I would like to know where my posting of yesterday, exposing Bluesman as a Nazi has disappeared to? It happenes to be true.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 07:45 AM

Most likely it was deleted Fred as no one was sure which Fred it was by, the old Fred who said he would never return to Mudcat, or the Fred that popped up here recently, hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 07:54 AM

Just saw this on Sky News.

Pikeys living illegally on a site in Essex have told Sky News they would rather burn their homes than move if an eviction order goes ahead.

Basildon Council recently issued the 50 families with notice to leave in a planning dispute that has dragged on for 10 years. The notice expires on September 1.They do not have planning permission to live there.The site is classified as green belt.

Travellers told Sky News the community would not go peacefully if the planned eviction goes ahead.

Nora Sheridan said: "They will burn what they have up there... they will use their homes and cars as shields and set fire to them because they're not going to let people come in.

So there you have it, they are no doubt sitting drinking stolen booze and are prepared to stab police officers as we speak.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 07:56 AM

I'd like to know why white man thinks that McCormick and McCormack are the same. Others may remember who else used to make the same mistake.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:00 AM

Richrad. There is no-one posting to Mudcat under the name McCormack. I have always been and will always remain Fred McCormick.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Silas
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:22 AM

This is a piece of engineered thread drift.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Silas
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:23 AM

Do we know what other aliases this troll posts under?

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Silas
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:28 AM

Thanks for that annon Guest. Well thought out and thought provoking post.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:51 AM

Silas. "Do we know what other aliases this troll posts under?"

"Bluesman" uses every alias under the sun, including that of my own name. It's called identity theft.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:34 AM

Don't feed his malnourished ego. The COQ does that for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Travellers?
From: Big Ballad Singer
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:34 AM

Hey, "Bluesman", whoever you are... fuck off to someone else's thread.

You'll find no appreciation for your bigoted crap here.

By the way, no matter how you might disagree with a lady, I'd appreciate it if you'd keep your responses to Lizzie and the other ladies charitable, if not polite. You're not winning any points by writing like an ass.

Thank you, all the rest, for your insights into the terminology I was asking about.

I think it's really sad that I asked for some general information, and someone had to go and try to steer this thread in their own shit-stirring direction.

Oh, and Bluesman, for all the anger you seem to have for Lizzie, EIGHTEEN friend requests on Facebook?

Desperate much?

---

You know what? This nonsense has very little to do with the original thread topic, so while this mudelf has read and edited, I've decided to stop it all here. If you want this thread reopened, ask Max or Joe.