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Tune Req: Out the Gap (Sharon Shannon)

Will Fly 07 Sep 11 - 04:24 AM
Dave MacKenzie 07 Sep 11 - 06:26 AM
Will Fly 07 Sep 11 - 07:19 AM
fat B****rd 07 Sep 11 - 07:30 AM
SteveMansfield 07 Sep 11 - 09:04 AM
GUEST,leeneia 07 Sep 11 - 10:40 AM
SteveMansfield 07 Sep 11 - 12:33 PM
SteveMansfield 07 Sep 11 - 12:39 PM
GUEST,Richard Robinson 08 Sep 11 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,leeneia 08 Sep 11 - 10:11 AM
SteveMansfield 08 Sep 11 - 02:38 PM
Will Fly 08 Sep 11 - 02:40 PM
Stewart 08 Sep 11 - 04:03 PM
Artful Codger 08 Sep 11 - 04:22 PM
Will Fly 08 Sep 11 - 04:52 PM
GUEST,Richard Robinson 08 Sep 11 - 04:57 PM
GUEST,leeneia 09 Sep 11 - 09:38 AM
Will Fly 10 Sep 11 - 05:58 PM
SteveMansfield 11 Sep 11 - 09:01 AM
Stewart 11 Sep 11 - 12:19 PM
Will Fly 11 Sep 11 - 12:38 PM
Stewart 11 Sep 11 - 03:21 PM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Sep 11 - 06:25 PM
Will Fly 14 Sep 11 - 08:28 AM
Jack Campin 14 Sep 11 - 11:53 AM
Stewart 19 Oct 11 - 03:25 PM
GUEST,leeneia 20 Oct 11 - 12:49 PM
Will Fly 20 Oct 11 - 01:43 PM
Stewart 20 Oct 11 - 02:28 PM
GUEST,leeneia 20 Oct 11 - 03:56 PM
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Subject: Anyone know the title of this waltz?
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 04:24 AM

I've been playing violin and guitar duets with my friend PJ. We do a set with two waltzes in it - "The Pernod Waltz" and one which he thought was called "The Peeking Pup Waltz". However, we're in doubt about the title of the second one.

If anyone knows the title to this I'd be grateful. Here's a link to the tune on SoundCloud:

Unknown waltz

Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 06:26 AM

Doesn't ring any bells, though reminiscent in places of 'Peeler Creek'.


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 07:19 AM

In case anyone hasn't noticed, the "B" part is unusual in that it's only 14 bars (2x7), rather than the more conventional 16.


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 07:30 AM

Helo, Will
Sounds a bit Louisiana to me. Sorry not to be more help. Maybe a Cajun afficionado will know it.
Charlie.
PS I like your videos.


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 09:04 AM

I don't think it is the Peeking Pup waltz, but I do think it's off of the same Sharon Shannon CD (her first self-titled one with the green cover) as the Peeking Pup.

A quick Goggle on the Peeking Pup Waltz finds abc on TheSession.org and a rendition on YouTube here, neither of which are your tune. If I get the chance this evening I shall skip through the oeuvre of the divine Ms Shannon and report back ...


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 10:40 AM

I don't recognize it. But this may be the chance to try something.

If you go to JC's Tune Finder, it says, "Type title or perl pattern, then Return and click Find."

I've been wondering what a perl pattern is. It may be a snippet of abc. Can you post a little abc of the tune and see if JC's finds it for you?


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 12:33 PM

I've been wondering what a perl pattern is. It may be a snippet of abc.

Perl is a scripting language, great (amongst other things) for searching through chunks of text. Being completely useless at perl I've never tried that option out.

Can you post a little abc of the tune and see if JC's finds it for you?

Yes! The more distinctive the chunk of abc the better, but I have had some success with that method in the past.


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 12:39 PM

Having now indeed skipped through the works I have of Ms Shannon, I can't find the tune you play. Sorry - I'm sure I've heard her, or someone with an instrumental line-up like hers, playing it though ...

It's going to bug me now!


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 09:58 AM

> Perl is a scripting language, great (amongst other things) for
> searching through chunks of text. Being completely useless at perl
> I've never tried that option out.

".*" (dot star) is a useful and easy one to know - match any sequence of characters, including nothing. So "so.*oy" would find "sooy", "Soldier's Joy", "Soldiers Joy", "Souldier Joy", "so muttermutter oy!", and anything else that has an "so" and then an "oy". Handy for dodging the possibility of variant spellings, see ?

I've just tried it on John's Tunefinder, and it seems to find a lot of other stuff too, including things I wouldn't have expected. Oh well.


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 10:11 AM

It's handy, but it searches titles, not lines of abc.

So much for that.


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 02:38 PM

Yay, got it!

'Out The Gap' played by (indeed) Sharon Shannon - or, at least, the first tune of the Out The Gap set on the CD of the same name. A short burst available here. Haven't got the CD cover handy so can't give any more details that that, but there ya go.

Phew.


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 02:40 PM

Brilliant work Steve - very many thanks for taking the trouble to seek this one out!

Now I can play it with peace of mind. :-)


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: Stewart
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 04:03 PM

Sharon Shannon- Out The Gap

Cheers, S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 04:22 PM

Perl patterns are a special case of (with some extensions to) standard UNIX "regular expressions". Doing a web search on Perl regular expressions should turn up more than you ever wanted to know about them.

One difficulty, however, is that Perl itself uses greater or lesser features of regular expressions in different contexts, so it's best to stick to the most basic and common RE features and avoid punctuation (particularly literal parentheses, question marks and quotes), which may have unintended meaning in the search string.

Given that ABC tune notation is heavy with punctuation, conflicting in meaning with Perl RE's, and ABC snippets would only match tunes notated in the same key, with the same specified meter and default note length, and with interior spaces and line breaks ignored, it's no surprise the search engine doesn't attempt to match tunes.


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 04:52 PM

Excellent, Stewart!

Thanks to all who helped. Good old Mudcat, eh? :-)


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 04:57 PM

> it's no surprise the search engine doesn't attempt to match tunes.

Mine does, but only within its own database, it doesn't do the crawler thing that John Chambers' does.

Convert it to midi and loop through the events subtracting the previous note number, and you've got semitones up or down, regardless of key :-) It's not perfect, but it sometimes works.


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 09:38 AM

Hello, Richard. Are you the RR of tune book fame?

If so, I'd like to say that I appreciate your wonderful contribution to traditional music.

About the waltz - at first I thought they were different, but then I heard that Sharon Shannon's group just started in a different place. Good work, Steve.


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Subject: Thanks for finding the 'unknown' waltz
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 05:58 PM

Just a little something to say 'thanks' to Mudcat folk for finding out the title of the waltz which had stumped me recently...

Out The Gap


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?-Thanks!!
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 09:01 AM

Nice version :)


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?-Thanks!!
From: Stewart
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 12:19 PM

Very nice Will!

What's the story behind this tune?
Who wrote it?

And is there an abc of the tune available?

Cheers, S. in Seattle


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Subject: Tune Add: OUT THE GAP (Sharon Shannon)
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 12:38 PM

As far as I'm aware it seems to have been written by Sharon Shannon. The transcription I made from PJ's fiddle playing produces this abc:

X:1
T:Out The Gap
C:Sharon Shannon
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:D ^C =D =E ^F =G =A =B
z2 z A d3/2e/ |"D"f2 (f2 f3/2)e/ |"D"e3/2d/ (d2 d3/2)d/ |"D"c3/2d/ B3/2A/ F3/2D/ |
"A"E6 |"A"e4 e3/2d/ |"A"d3/2c/ (c2 c3/2)B/ |"A7"A3/2B/ A3/2G/ F3/2E/ |
"D"F3 A d3/2e/ |"D"f2 (f2 f3/2)e/ |"D"e3/2d/ (d2 d3/2)d/ |"D"c3/2d/ B3/2A/ F3/2D/ |
"A"E6 |"A"e4 e3/2f/ |"A"g3/2f/ e3/2d/ c3/2B/ |"A7"A3/2B/ A3/2G/ F3/2E/ |
("D"D2 D3/2)A/ d3/2c/ |("G"B2 B3/2)c/ d3/2c/ |("G"B2 B3/2)c/ d3/2e/ |("Bm"f2 f3/2)e/ d3/2c/ |
("G"B2 B3/2)c/ d3/2c/ |"G"B3/2c/ B3/2A/ F3/2G/ |"A7"A3/2B/ A3/2G/ F3/2E/ |("D"D2 D3/2)A/ d3/2c/ |
("G"B2 B3/2)c/ d3/2c/ |("G"B2 B3/2)c/ d3/2e/ |("Bm"f2 f3/2)e/ d3/2c/ |("G"B2 B3/2)c/ d3/2c/ |
"G"B3/2c/ B3/2A/ F3/2G/ |"A7"A3/2B/ A3/2G/ F3/2E/ |("D"D2 D)A d3/2e/ |


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?-Thanks!!
From: Stewart
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 03:21 PM

Thanks Will,

S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?-Thanks!!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 06:25 PM

Thanks for the video, Will. I love the way the waltz surges down to the low notes. And thanks for the abc, too.


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?-Thanks!!
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 08:28 AM

Sorry to be rather boring on this topic, but I was so intrigued by this tune I found myself itching to play it as a straight guitar solo. I've capo'ed on the 2nd fret and voiced it in C to keep it in its original key of D. It's a tricky little piece on guitar - not because the chords are complex - quite the opposite - but most of the tune and the chords are on the inner 4 strings, so some nifty picking work is needed to keep the rhythm going while picking out the tune. I use the back of my nails to keep the 2nd and 3rd beats of the waltz pulsing while the tune is being played.

Out The Gap (Guitar)

Music, chords and tab for this at:

my tabs page


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?-Thanks!!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 11:53 AM

Simplifying Will's ABC to make it more legible and editable:

X:1
T:Out The Gap
C:Sharon Shannon
M:3/4
L:1/8
Q:3/4=58
K:D
A d>e|"D"f2 f3 e |"D"e>d d3 d |"D" c>d B>A
F>D|"A"E6 |
[1 "A"e4 e>d|"A"d>c c3 B |"A7"A>B A>G F>E|"D"F3:|
[2 "A"e4 e>f|"A"g>f e>d c>B|"A7"A>B A>G F>E|"D"D3||
A d>c|"G"B2 Bc d>c|"G"B2 Bc d>e|"Bm"f3\
e d>c|
"G"B2 Bc d>c|"G"B>c B>A F>G|"A7"A>B A>G F>E|"D"D3:|

I've reduced the swing on a few notes - I figured any player will have their own ideas about that. Otherwise it's exactly the same, just written differently.


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?-Thanks!!
From: Stewart
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 03:25 PM

fat B****rd (07 Sep 11 - 07:30 AM) had the right clue:
"Sounds a bit Louisiana to me. Sorry not to be more help. Maybe a Cajun afficionado will know it".

I was just playing "Out the Gap" and my wife said, "that's Chez Seychelles."

As a matter of fact, the B part of "Out the Gap"
is almost identical to the A part of "Chez Seychelles," a Cajun tune.
And the A part of "Out the Gap," while not identical,
sounds similar to the B part of "Chez Seychelles"

Compare the two tunes on Youtube
Chez Seychelles by Beausoleil
Out the Gap by Sharon Shannon

From the liner notes of "Best of Beausoleil" - "Chez Seychelles is a sweet waltz which came from a traditional tune from the Seychelles Islands. The tune was originally a mazurka, which Michael adapted into a waltz".

Who stole from whom?

Cheers, S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?-Thanks!!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 12:49 PM

Thanks for this tune. I can play it on the piano now.

It sounds so naturally and authentically Cajun that I wonder if there really was a tune from the Seychelles Islands. I've tried to see (without success) if the islands were named after a French person named Seychelle. In that case, a tune named 'Chez Seychelles' for a local Cajun family would seem perfectly natural.

We may never know, so I'm going to spend my energy playing it instead.


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?-Thanks!!
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 01:43 PM

I've just listened to Chez Seychelles" by the 'Cajun All-Stars' on Spotify - and it's very close indeed to "Out The Gap"! The give-away is in that section of the tune which has the unusual 7-bar repeat.

In fact, "Chez Seychelles" is a very sweet tune indeed - I shall have to rename what I play yet again!


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?-Thanks!!
From: Stewart
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 02:28 PM

I've no doubt that "Out the Gap" is just an adaptation of "Chez Seychelles"
And I'm sure that "Chez Seychelles" was adapted from a traditional tune from the Seychelles Islands by Michael Doucet of Beausoleil as he has said.

leeneia - "The islands were named after Jean Moreau de Seychelles, Louis XV's Minister of Finance." from Wikipedia

Here's a musical score and a midi for "Chez Seychelles"

Cheers, S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: Anyone the title of this waltz?-Thanks!!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:56 PM

Thanks, Stewart. Another plus - now I know where the Seychelles are.


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