BS: Rugby World Cup 2011

Subject: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 08:50 AM

The competition proper kicks off tomorrow (9/9/11) at 9.30 am (UK Time) With New Zealand V Tonga.

Welsh involvement starts at the same time on Sunday against S.Africa.

For a full fixture list see Here a site which also has a little gizmo to let you change times to display the local equivalent.

Come on Wales!

Cheers
Nigel (eternal optimist)

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 09:48 AM

Bit of an injury-hit England, but at least Wilko's in there to give the Argies some of their own medecine in the kicking stakes.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 11:20 AM

Hopefully lots of close matches. I'm looking forward to New Zealand v France, Russia v USA, all Scotland's games and of course all Wales's.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 02:52 PM

I'll feel very proud (and have more than a few nervous butterflies) as I watch Mike lead the team out on Saturday and become England's most capped centre too(73 caps). They'll have a tough match against Argentina! Come on England!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: paula t
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 03:08 PM

Sorry! The last posting was from me!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 05:37 PM

Will be up to watch the Haka face off with Tonga and NZ - perfect start too the world cup should set the tone for an exciting and culturally diverse tournament.

If Argentina play the way the played in the last world cup, when they were unlucky to lose to the eventual winners SA, England could have one hell of a fight on their hands.

I'm not feeling optimistic about Ireland - but I'll still end up shouting at the telly with red veins bursting from my bulging eyes and my heart a whisker away from arrest ... my survival is linked to Irelands ...

Weird that NZ have to face their bogey team France in the group stages ... I guess it will be a good indicator of their intent ... if they beat France their momentum will be very hard to stop!!

How very inconsiderate though of the new zealanders not to stage the matches at 3 in the morning their time so that we can watch it in the afternoon here in the UK ... its just selfish is what it is ...

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 07:44 PM

Picture of the Christchurch pitch in this morning's Independent - I've seen shinty played on worse. Fixtures are probably as good as could be hoped, finishing the group with England, especially if they play in white (the Saxons only seem to play well if they're pretending to be Welsh or Kiwis). Less than 9 hours to go.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Little Robyn
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 05:11 PM

OK, the first game is over - we beat the Tongans 41/10.
Hey, that's not too good compared with earlier games when the ABs beat them by about 100.
The weather was good tho' and thousands of people watched the opening and fireworks before it started.
The only problem was, the public transport in Auckland couldn't handle the crowds and some people spent too long stuck in trains - they didn't get to the venue at all. And the buses and ferrys were stopped when the party venue was full, leaving long queues waiting on the wrong side of the harbour. Lots of disgruntled fans!
The next game is likely to be in pouring rain down south.
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Fossil
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 10:00 PM

Your very own Fossil will be out on the pitch tomorrow singing the Welsh and South African National Anthems!

The NZ Choral Federation has organised a number of choirs to do this in the various venues around the country.

I'm in the Wellington area and will sing at four matches in total over the next few weeks, including the USA vs Australia, France vs Tonga and the first quarter-final.

For a chorister, it is a new venture, as you have to memorise both the words and your part. Parts aren't that much of a problem, but the words certainly are! Welsh is kinda hard anyway and the South African anthem has about four (or is it five?) different languages in rapid succession. Fortunately the last two are Afrikaans (basically Dutch, which I understand anyway) and English. When we get to the English, it's basically all over.

Look out for me in the bass line-up if you're watching the matches!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 04:32 AM

hi

I have watched some of the first couple of games. Both a bit one-sided.

Hoipe that England's will be for us but we never do things the easy way do we??

We don't have flair or open running backs but we are well equipped for the close contact fierce tackling game that does well for us in the World Championship.

So I guess it will be more nail-biting and white knuckles for the next two weeks.

Come on England.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: paula t
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 05:30 AM

Nails being well and truly bitten at the moment!Come on England!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 06:53 AM

hi

Well we did it........just.

It was the sort of game that I expected. Grim,dour,and very hard up front.

Still a win is a win and in cup rugby that is what counts in the end.

When did we last see Jonny Wilkinson miss 5 kicks in one game?????

The referee was a little harsh on England , especially in the first half and that stopped any fluency to be brought into the game.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 10:20 AM

I know I said I wanted to see some close games, but that was a bit too tight against Roumania. Even Patterson couldn't control the ball (especially when it fell off the tee just as he was kicking - nearly a Gaelic three-pointer).

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 02:32 PM

hi Dave

Like you I was hiding behind the sofa !!

Blowed if I didn't have to dive back for the England game.

But no need for the Man United v Bolton game...5-0 to M.U.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: paula t
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 06:54 AM

That was the type of game I expected. I don't understand why the commentators always expect us to beat Argentina easily. They are no longer amateurs. They are tough, determined players who will fight for everything. Their front row are experienced and hard (like ours at the 2003 world cup!). I can't remember the last time we beat them after an easy match. A win is a win. It was never going to be pretty. Still, a win is a win. What a relief!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 10:02 AM

Nice to see that the minnows are going the distance nowadays. And Steve Welsh refereed a complete game without getting in a fight. But why are Les Tricoleurs trying to pretend they're English, and the English dressing up as New Zealanders? At least the All Black strips still look like All Blacks (from a distance, anyway).

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 05:11 PM

I was impressed with the Yanks against Ireland. The game was on a national US network this afternoon much to my surprise and delight. Had it not been for their panic play at times they would have been in the running. They could become a force to considered in future if they can get some more experience and settle their nerves.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Fossil
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 11:40 PM

Wales vs South Africa, what a match! The outcome uncertain right to the final whistle, and a fantastic party atmosphere in downtown Wellington.

And, get this footie fans - after the game was over (S.Africa won!), I personally witnessed lots of encounters between SA fans and disappointed Welsh fans - the invariable outcome a handshake or a clap on the shoulder. No violence, no aggro. Nothing but sheer good sportsmanship.

And walking out on the pitch to sing the anthems was a blast, too!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 01:39 PM

I'd say after round one that Wales and South Africa are the only two teams up and running - that would have graced the final. As for Hook's disallowed goal, it went over the post so only the touch judge directly underneath could judge correctly.

We knew it was a bit of a gamble only having 2 warm-up matches, so hopefully we'll be in our stride for Georgia, and Patterson works out what's happened to the air in New Zealand.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST,bokkie.
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 08:59 AM

Gaan, Bokke !

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 05:16 PM

It just amazes me that we get to see few games here in Atlantic Canada. Also pisses me off. Sorry for the ween but the garbage they put on the sports channels for hours... people talking about sports instead of actual games... agggghhhhh!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 07:51 AM

A dour match in heavy rain for Scotland against Georgia but Scotland came out ahead at 15-6, lots of dropped ball and missed kicks. Why is kicking suddenly so difficult?

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Newport Boy
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 08:02 AM

According to Neil Jenkins (Wales' kicking coach) before the tournament kickers' reputations would go down. He claimed that the balls as delivered for matches would not be 'kicked in' and would be more difficult to flight (reported by Shaun Edwards).

Looks like he may be right, and Martin Johnson is quoted giving the same reason for Jonny Wilkinson's 5 misses.

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Fossil
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 05:50 AM

Well, tonight's match was USA vs Russia, which the Americans won.
A pretty good game, too. Marred by lots of handling errors, probably down to the wet ball, greasy pitch and cold. but Russia missed a lot of penalties, which could've made a big difference for them.


But who designed the USA strip? The upper part was a dark blue jersey, outlined with white piping, all good. But OMG, the shorts - a white ovoid panel covering the ass and front, with broad dark blue stripes at the sides and bottom of the legs: in the wet muddy conditions tonight, playing under floodlights, the entire team looked as if they were wearing giant, soiled diapers.

How to make your boys look ridiculous!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Charmion
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 09:00 AM

I hear Canada have beat Tonga in a very well-played match. Would somebody please check for other signs of the approaching Apocalypse?

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 11:01 AM

The USA and Russia were in the same strips (Canterbury) except the Russians were in red and the US in blue. Great block from Todd Clever, except he wasn't playing Gridiron. I agree with the commentators that he should have been carded.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 03:12 PM

hi fossill

<"A pretty good game, too. Marred by lots of handling errors, probably down to the wet ball, greasy pitch and cold">

It's always like that in England !!! We do play mainly in the Winter !!

It is much easier now to handle the ball than when we played. Back then the ball was as heavy as a lump of lead and as greasy as a bar of soap.
The pitches were much worse then too with mud mainly the order of the day.....I even lost a boot on one particularly bad pitch !!!

And now the players can wear shoulder pads and.....GLOVES......yes GLOVES so handling should be easy.

So England and Scotland should have no problems with handling when they play each other.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 04:17 AM

Any team that has problems handling should get a new 'handling coach'.


I understand Maradona's available!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Fossil
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 06:10 AM

Well, I *did* play rugby a lot when at school (in England, a number of years ago...). but it was exceptionally wet and cold, so can excuse a few handling mistakes.

But what about the kicking in this championships?

I really don't believe that Jonny Wilkinson could have missed so many- in a closed stadium, no wind - on sheer nerves. That man has *no* nerves, he has proved it many times. And other noted place-kickers have been having problems.

I put it down to the Coriolis effect myself....

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 08:08 AM

Maybe we need to go back to the practice of the stand-off lying down and holding the ball at the right angle with his index finger?

MikeL I played with that ball too I well understood the importance of getting rid of the big slippery leather thing before getting knocked down and trampled in the mud ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 09:56 AM

Hi Wandering Minstrel

Yes I too used to have someone to lie down in the mud and hold the ball for me when I used to do the kicking.

On occasions I used to return the favour for other kickers - never liked that.

Nowadays they have nice flat pitches, a light ball with no lace and a "spider" to tee up the ball. Oh and they have infinately better boots too.

I can't understand how anyone can miss. But miss they do - just shows what good kickers we were ........!!!

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Fossil
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 08:45 PM

Started off watching the All Blacks play Japan last night, but gave up on it after about 10 minutes. Purely cruel to watch.

But the final score (83-7) wasn't such a huge margin as some past games. However, still more akin to potting fish in a barrel than a game of rugby.

Hopefully today's games: Argentina v Romania, Australia v Ireland, S.Africa v Fiji will produce a bit more balance.

At least I'm not singing this weekend, but am in the choir for the Australia v USA match in Wellington on Friday next, which should be a good 'un.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 06:31 AM

I see Ireland have beaten Australia 15-6.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST,Guest down
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 10:49 AM

Great win for the Irish, you never give Aussie a look in.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 11:58 AM

Somebody help me down from the ceiling ...

... what a win for Ireland!!!

The forwards were awesome - when australia got the ball they looked dangerous - but Ireland wouldn't let them have it - and their most dangerous spell of play very nearly turned into a try for Tommy Bowe after he intercepted the ball beautifully and ran the entire length of the field, only beaten in the end by the fatigue in his legs.

We're a small country with just 4 league teams - FOUR!! one for each of the 4 provinces - and one of those in non-professional ...

The Irish can be proud tonight - there's nothing to lose now and suddenly we could be in for a decent world cup finish!!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 10:14 AM

Hi

Cogratulatulations Ireland !!! The best game I have watched so far in the World Cup by far.

England won today but I was still hard going and the score somewhat flattered them. I hope I am not taking anything away from Georgia who played extremely well for 70% of the game.

This was a very physical game and England will be glad that they have a week to recover from some of the bruising tackles.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Bruce from Bathurst
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 11:14 AM

Ireland certainly played better rugby than Australia and fully deserved the win on Saturday. Not nearly enough open play from our Wallabies, but the Irish forwards were too good to let it happen.

The scheduling of the match was less than ideal for our band. We were at The Turning Wave Festival in the town of Gundagai, and we were playing on stage for the entire second half of that match. Turning Wave is a strong Irish music festival so there was a lot of interest in AUS v. IRE. There was a large TV on the wall just behind the last seats, so at least half the audience were happy to have us playing background music while they watched rugby.

It's a slightly surreal experience to have your music applauded by a crowd with their backs to you.

At least we were able to watch the TV, from a distance, over the top of their heads.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 11:36 AM

Was that Mr Bean's twin brother taking the kicks for Tonga?

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 08:12 AM

Maybe but it was definitely Mr Bean reffing. Those passes were just a bit forward!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 06:27 PM

Another of these revelations - Leo Cullen (Irish No 5) is really Alfred E Neuman!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 06:31 PM

.

          Not Neumann,

          The BFG ...

.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 06:38 PM

Him as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 08:32 PM

Agghhhh!!! Disappointing loss to Argentina. But... an exciting match!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 07:50 AM

Arrgghhh indeed! Scotland should have had that sewn up and still threw it away with dropped ball and lack of finishing. So now we have to beat England and get a bonus point.

How did Contepomi get away with being 5 yards offside for Parks drop-kick? even Pienaar described it as "indifferent refereeing!"

Rooting hard for a surprise Georgian victory...

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 07:59 AM

Wales 81 Namibia 7

A good result

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Fossil
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 12:37 AM

Well, here in NZ, the general public is going apeshit about the All Blacks v Canada match, it's all being pundited to death as though there were *any* chance at all of it being anything other than a Maple Leaf massacre.

Myself, I have the wonderful job of learning the national anthems for the France v Tonga match in Wellington on Saturday. Even if it's overshadowed by the AB's, this game holds out the prospect of much better rugby. But even so, I'll be surprised if the Bleus don't win.

I'm OK with the "Marseillaise", having lived in Belgium and speaking fluent, if rusty, French. Tonga's anthem is actually rather nice, but the words are difficult to learn.

If anyone is watching the beginning of this match, the NZCF choir stands in a two-row semi-circle behind the two national flags and the teams line-up. We dress in black, with the RWC scarf round our necks. And while the orchestra comes on a pre-recorded tape, and there *is* a choral tape too, we are told that in the matches so far, the TV crews have been getting good enough sound off the field choir to be using that in the broadcasts. Anyway, I'll be in the bass back row, second from the left as you look at the flags. Wish me luck!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 06:22 AM

I've been enjoying your performances so far Fossil.

Good Job on "Irelands Call".

We don't sing our national anthem in Rugby, but an anthem accepted by both northern and southern players, catholics and protestants as representing a United Irish team.

Which I Guess renders the soldiers song morally obsolete, since "Irelands Call" is the only song that can be said to represent all the people of Ireland.

Like the rugby, its not sectarian, and like the Murphy's, its not bitter!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Fossil
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 05:38 PM

Yes, Lox is right: just looked in my RWC Anthem Book and "Ireland's call" is the one that's sung. Though I have to disclaim any credit for the singing, I haven't done any of the Ireland matches yet: having passed the audition and got signed up, you are allocated to specific matches. In Wellington, there's a pool of about 100 singers, who sing in different combinations - always 30 singers per match. And it's the same in Auckland and Dunedin and the other centres.

But the Aucklanders get the best deal: 3 out of 4 quarter finals, all the semis and the final itself are at Eden Park, so I won't get a look in. But it has been great fun so far!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 06:18 PM

Break a leg Fossil. I'll be watching the Canuck game on tape on Sunday unless I get a second wind and stay up until 1:30AM on Saturday night/Sunday.

I don't know about such dire straights but I expect the All Blacks will prevail. In any case, just to see that The Maple Leaf is flying in NZ warms my heart. In my home town, rugby plays well down the list.. hockey... Canuck football (actually, Yank football is more popular)... baseball... football (known as soccer here)... etc. Rugby is WAY down the list. So, the fact that many games are being televised here means a lot to promoting rugby. About time!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Fossil
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 07:46 PM

One of the really nice things about the RWC so far has been the way in which the Kiwis have welcomed fans from all the nations.

At the Australia vs USA match, more than half the Wellington stadium had decided to support the underdogs - the USA team. The place was awash with the Stars and Stripes, people in costumes, chants of "U! S! A!". Mexican waves, the lot. It all made for a terrific atmosphere.

It can only be good for the game - hopefully in Canada too. Though I don't see Wellington getting behind the Canadian team in quite the same way, not against the AB's! But the Canucks will be getting a good run against what is arguably the best team in the world at the moment. Not necessarily the winners of the Webb Ellis Trophy mind - I still think and hope that England can surprise us all, yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 02:25 PM

Are the English in all-black as was said they intended before the contests? I haven't seen them play and I did make a fuss about a while back.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 05:07 PM

Englands main strip is still all white in keeping with tradition.

Its their second strip, for when they play teams with similar strips that is all black.

So against argentina they played in all black while argentina played in white and blue.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 05:18 PM

How come les Tricoleurs no longer play in blue, white and red, and in fact against New Zealand played in all white and played like, well, Englishmen?

For some reason Georgia manage to play in all white and still enjoy the game!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 05:23 PM

Hmmm... so why all the fuss before the tournament began It was made to be a big deal and I was rather taken aback by their declaration of all black. Just free advertising? If so, I hope it worked world wide.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 05:17 AM

Wales have used a black change strip (with red trim) off and on for several years - looks better than the yellow. England have a habit of doing things and then announcing that they're not doing it to upset whoever it is that normally wears that colour, thus drawing attention to themselves and causing more upset.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Paul Burke
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 05:39 PM

Dullest tournament ever. You've proved it; all that's worth talking about is what colour shirts they're wearing.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 05:58 PM

Well, I do find it rather drawn out. For a bunch of lads with leather balls whose fans tell us over and over that they are SO much tougher than any other sportsmen, they don't seem to be able to get their balls in play very often.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 04:22 AM

Or to quote, "never mind the ball. Let's get on with the game".

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 05:03 AM

Or to quote, "never mind the ball. Let's get on with the game".
If you're english the ball is very important.
Important enough that two coaches have been suspended for ball-switching to try & help Wilkinson with his conversions.
Ballsgate

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 05:39 AM

Full-time: South Africa 13 - Samoa 5

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 05:47 AM

If they've followed my quote, it never would have happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 06:40 AM

SA v Samoa was a great game.

Pity Samoa couldn't squeeze back into the match in the second half.

Brave attempt though!!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST,Guest MikeL2
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 11:45 AM

hi Nigel

Thanks for the article on "ballsgate".

Surely this has been hyped out of all proportion ??!!

I watched the game and though I did not notice the "switching" I never saw anything untoward in the way that the ball was changed. Wilkinson made it obvious that in his opinion the ball was in some way damaged and requested another. I don't think that they were trying to pull a fast one. The worst thing that I can't think is that the people involved did not know the Laws ( yes Laws - not rules in RU).

This same thing happens in tennis all the time when the server examines several balls before selecting what he/she believes to be the best one.

I am looking forward to tomorrow's England v Scotland game enormously. I am not kidding myself that we will be treated to an all-action open running game. It will be a tactical war of attrition.
The World Cup really starts tomorrow as far as I am concerned.

Who will win ?? Let's wait and see........

Cheers
Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 05:28 PM

Just watched Samoa put up a good but short game. It was exciting. A great game to watch. I am only to see Canada's game next. Rather see England vs Scotland. And, Canada's game conflicts with Yankee football... so I may not see my country get trounced. Of course, if the Canucks are doing well, I shall miss the Yankee football game. Kinda doubt it although the Canucks are getting better. It's just that rugby is not THE game here... no money in it so the young people don't go for it. Tooooo bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: TheFamousEccles
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 11:33 PM

Rugby is a Canadian game. Canada introduced rugby to the states, and thus was born, North American football. Check ur history, or else check Wikipedia.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 05:43 AM

Well a first for Scotland, that I hoped as a Scot myself I would never see - On their way home from a Rugby World Cup after the First round Pool Stage of the tournament, there is no way that Argentina is going to trip up over Georgia.

Good luck to England and the other "Home Nations" sides, Wales and Ireland are going well but have tough matches to guarantee their place in the quarters. England have to raise their game but my prediction is an England v New Zealand final.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: goatfell
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 07:08 AM

Well that will please the football supporters then.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MikeL2
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 08:51 AM

hi

Well England won........just !!!

They were outplayed for most of the game but a fervent Scottish pack. As I forecast yesterday, it wasn't pretty but it was exciting with either side looking as though they could win in the last quarter of the game.

However Scotland's inability to score tries let them down again and of course if you are to be successful you have to be able to cross that white line.

I feel so sorry for Chris Patterson who has been an outstanding player for Scotland over the years and has contributed greatly to the team. Although Jonny Wilkinson usually gets all the plaudits for kicking ( not this time in NZ though) IMHO he is an equally good kicker and had he been able to play for a more open and attacking team he would have been up there with the best.

So we now must meet the French ( barring some freak results). On today's showing England will need to improve, but I earnestly hope they will.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 07:31 PM

I watched the France vs Tonga match (taped) today. (VERY strange reffing???) At the end, the commentator said, in French, that Canada was in third place at the moment... I THINK that's what she said. I immediately went to the official website and could NOT figure out shit from that load a crap.... very poorly presented IMO.

I emailed them but who knows when they may get around to providing a SIMPLE fixture ladder. Are the Canucks really in third place at the moment or is my French lacking?

BTW... what a day! Rugby and Premiership football followed by the Aussie footy final (we get to see ONE game of footy a year here). Great day!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 06:03 AM

Saw wales play against a Fijian side who forgot to bring a front row.

Competing for possession is not something the welsh had to do.


Italy on the other hand had as cynical and aggressive a front row as you can imagine. Credit to Irish forwards for not getting provoked despite eyegouging and other deliberate attempts to provoke and to injure.

Normally i like Italy, but today i was glad to see Ireland stuff them.

Crap ref and cheating forwards couldn't stop us though.

Bowe scored a beautiful fair try that was disallowed, and was then tackled off the ball just as he was about to score another, but no penalty try was given.

So the score doesn't reflect Irish determination and discipline remotely.

Correctly refereed, the score would be 50 - 6 - without those two trues, the score was 36 - 6.


Well done Ireland and watch out wales - the welsh front row is not as tough or scary as the Italian front row and they can expect the Irish to be all over them.

Erin Go Bragh!!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Newport Boy
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 06:11 AM

gnu - Canada are in 4th place in Pool A - the first 2 go through to the quarter-finals.

Results and positions are easy to see in the pool tables

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 05:56 PM

Thanks NB!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 03:55 AM

So, it must be a final between the two hemispheres:

Ireland vs Wales Winner to play the winner of:
England vs France         

S Africa vs Australia Winner to play the winner of:      
New Zealand vs Argentina

So it's still 'all to play for'

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Fossil
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 05:54 AM

And I'm singing at Wales v Ireland! So 2 free tickets (already spoken for, so don't bother begging!).

Saturday next, here in Wellington 6:00PM. Should be a cracking match.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 07:49 AM

Mike,

Have to agree with you about Chris Patterson who has been an outstanding kicker for Scotland and has a much better strike rate than Wilko, so much so that when he (very rarely) misses it often makes the papers! He was duly rewarded by being made Man of the Match against England. Now if only De Luca had picked that ball up cleanly :(

I will be following Wales for the rest of the tournament and hope the All-Blacks show Argentina the exit as emphatically as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MikeL2
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 08:54 AM

hi Wander m

I am glad that de Luca failed to pick up!!!!

Now I will be following Ireland and of course England.

If Scotland had beaten England and gone through although I am English and support England, I would have been then shouting for Scotland !!

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 09:08 AM

Yes, support Wales. Altogether now:

Guide me O Thou great Jehovah,
    or
Guide me O Thou great redeemer,
    or
Always eat when you are hungry,
    or
Wele'n sefyll rhwng y myrtwydd ...

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 11:34 AM

I was visiting my son over the weekend, so I'm slowly catching up with my hard disc (currently on Georgia v Argentina). Both games that Scotland lost, Dan Parks finished the game. While Parks has overcome his worst faults, eg falling to pieces after his first mistake, we can only speculate what would have happened if Ruairidh Jackson's hamstring hadn't gone. Incidentally, I also watched the Blues v Glasgow (yng Ngymraeg), and Jackson's understudy, Duncan Weir, was Man of the Match with a perfect kicking record. Edinburgh also have a promising young No 10 on their books in Gregor Hunter, so possibly Scotland will be overcoming the inability to score tries in the near future. As for Wilkinson, I think it's quite a few years now since he's been as good as his reputation.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 03:38 PM

I missed the CAN-NZ game. Good thing!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 03:58 PM

Canada didn't play that badly, just the All Blacks were better. Kleeberger put everything into it, especially his last tackle. Once they'd been got back up to their feet, he and the guy he tackled had to be helped off!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 04:03 PM

The All Blacks are looking more dangerous than I have seen them in years - though Dan Carters injury means we won't get to see the all round consummate performance from the team that we might have hoped for.

I'm not an All Blacks supporter, but I love to watch a great team play to their full potential - and this all blacks team is one of the greatest rugby teams to walk the earth!

Looking forward to watching Ireland beat them in the Final!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 04:22 PM

Hey Fossil - I will be watching you sing live from the other side of the world - along with millions of others.

Not a bad gig really!

Enjoy the show - and give "Irelands call" some welly for us!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 04:30 PM

Oh yes - and get used to singing it - because you'll be eeding to sing it another 3 times after this saturday ...

... at the semis, at the final and when Ireland lift the cup!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Newport Boy
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 04:46 PM

Dream on, lox!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 09:01 AM

Hi Lox

Your views of the All Blacks mirror mine. They are the best rugby side and certainly the best to watch. There World Cup record though is poor and they need to put this right. Their performances this time look as though they will do.

Dan Carter will be a big loss - I always look forward to watching his sublime skills. Like all great artists he makes it all look too easy.

It is unlikely that England will make it to the final so if they don't I will be shouting for Ireland. But that is maybe a little premature as Wales have looked in very good form.

We are going to Wales tomorrow for a week or so and will be watching the matches there.

I think I might just keep quite during the game !!!!

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Newport Boy
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 01:40 PM

MikeL2 - That would be most discourteous to your (temporary) hosts. You should cheer loudly for Wales! (As should everyone else.)

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 02:28 PM

Hi Newport Boy

You are right , it would be discourteous - I will try to restrain myself and keep completely unbiased.

Of course it would be a different matter if it happens to be England v Wales.!!!!

As I will be in North Wales it won't be quite so bad as they are not as fanatical about rugby ????

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 04:51 PM

Pff ...

Courtesy is for before and after the game!

Don't worry mike ...

... the welsh fans will fell in behind Ireland when we play England in the Semis ...

.. And you can all join in when we teach the southern hemisphere some manners!!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 05:26 PM

south Africa versus Ireland

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 09:07 PM

I hope so - Ireland are South Africa's bogey team ...

... we've never beaten the All Blacks ....

But Paul O'Connell, BOD, ROG et al have tasted Springbok blood on a few occasions - in South Africa!! - so the boks don't have the psychological advantage over the Irish that the all blacks have - if anything its the other way around.

Wit Dan Carter out its hard to predict what will happen, but I think NZ will beat SA or Australia as they are at home.

I won't count Australia out either as they have some awesome players and they won the tri nations ...

... which could be reason to predict a northern hemisphere victory ... Wales came close to beating the Boks, Ireland beat Australia ...

France were shit and will lose heavily to england.

There is (remarkably) actually a very real chance that Ireland could win the world cup - certainly as realistic as the chances of any other of the teams competing.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 07:50 AM

BTW - If Wales do win, I will naturally fall in behind them for the remainder ...

... til then though I remain wilfully jingoistic.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Fossil
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 05:18 AM

As a singer in the RWC choirs and a diehard England supporter, I was delighted to receive an email tonight from the NZ Choral Federation offering me a FREE ticket for the England v France quarter-final match at 8:30 PM in Auckland, on Saturday.

I was also previously asked, and accepted, to sing at the Ireland v Wales match at 6:00 PM on Saturday. In Wellington. About 500 km away.

The word "bugger!" doesn't come close...

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 07:48 AM

Fossil:
Look on the bright side. At least you should see a better match! :)

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Fossil
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 05:59 PM

The really sad thing, Nigel, is that you are almost certainly right!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Oct 11 - 04:41 AM

It goes against the grain, but this weekend could see me cheering for England to win.

Either Wales v England, or Ireland v England, would make a great draw for the semi-finals. The Telegraph is already talking-up the Wales Ireland match this weekend as being the one to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 07 Oct 11 - 12:05 PM

I'd like England to beat France.

When I was younger I would show solidarity with our Gallic Brothers, but, maybe because I've been living in England, I have to confess that I have a softer spot for England these days - and besides, I think England have been the better team and have earned their spot, while Frances tenure in this tournament is highly suspect!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: CET
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 03:15 AM

It looks like I get to be the one to announce that Wales has just beaten Ireland 22-10. This was one of the best matches I've seen in years. To cap it all I got to watch it in Slattery's pub in Capel Street, Dublin AND I wore my Welsh rugby shirt! I don't see either England or France beating Wales now.

A couple of worrying things, though - Wales conceded a lot of penalties and Rhys Priestland's kicking was pretty bad (missed a conversion and two penalties). They won't be able to get away with that in the final.

Edmund

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: CET
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 05:57 AM

Just finished watching France whip England, and I'm not quite as certain about Wales making the final. I still think Wales will make it, but France certainly look fired up.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 06:00 AM

I had thought France were as good as out of the competition...

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 06:08 AM

Oh dear, Les will be upset.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 06:48 AM

First Problem: Can France play like that two weeks in a row?

Second Problem: Wales were'nt very good, but Ireland were worse. Do wales need to be lucky again?

Bit of bad luck for England - I thought they played fairly well except for a few expensive sloppy tackles.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Paul Burke
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 06:54 AM

It wasn't fair- France had vingt cent playing.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: goatfell
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 07:36 AM

so there is a God

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 08:28 AM

Well played France. On the day you did it. England were sloppy and paid the penalty. Enjoyed the match very much though.
If France play as well against Wales, then I think Wales will get hammered.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 09:57 AM

Wales didn't play well?

Well I know whose point of view to totally ignore in this thread!!

As I said, I shall now gladly fall in behind the welsh team.

C'mon wales!!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: BTNG
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 11:44 AM

Wales didn't play well....?

let me see what was that score again.....?
Wales 22 Ireland 10

and the score of the France England game, you ask? Wellllllll......

France 19 England 12

Dear Dear me.....LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Arnie
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 11:46 AM

I feel sorry for the England coach, Martin Johnson. A fine player in his day and sadly let down by many of the present lot - both on and off the pitch. I suspect that he'll resign or be asked to leave soon after returning home.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 05:26 PM

Oh for coverage by the BBC.
1, The camera angles are better
2, There tend to be more cameras per match
3, The commentators aren't hear volubly supporting one team.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 07:35 PM

I was not quite prepared for 6:00 GMT zone.



Nor, that both games were in NZ....and played just a short time apart.



However, the coverage with multiple browsers between BBC and The Guardian gave me a "real life" coverage.



Because of a FT article - the nod was onto the "new" Irish defence.



GREAT GAMES - it puts the American sport to shame.



Sincerely,

Gargoyle



I do not beleive the frogs have another chance in the well buttered frying-pan.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 04:05 AM

Hi all

Sang at the Wales-Ireland match and it duly was a cracker. Unfortunately the magic seems to have deserted my leprechaun hat, as Wales won. But what a good match!

Then made it home to see the England v France. What a disaster!

England gave it away. I have never in recent years seen an England team play so badly. Jonny Wilkinson's face as he walked off in the second half said it all. He looked tired and old and out of it. He has to go. And you'd only to look at the wingers having to jump all over the place to retrieve sloppy, inaccurate passes, or watch whoever-it-was (some great lummox of a centre) get HIT by a pass, which bounced off him as he wasn't even bloody LOOKING at the ball and then happily stood by as it was picked up and recycled by an even happier Frog, aargh! Words fail me! They deserve to be on the plane home. And their off-pitch antics here in NZ have not won them any friends at all.

I appeal to you - would Billy Beamont ever have been in a bar where a dwarf-throwing contest was going on? Or - more to the point - even if he was, would he have let himself be photographed, so the reptiles of the press could have a field day? To say nothing of Tyndall and his blonde... Usedtabe, what went on tour, stayed on tour. Not at the RWC, bro', too much media around for that.

And tonight, Australia just beat South Africa and the All Blacks match v Argentina is still going on. It is all getting interesting!

Unfortunately, last night was my swan-song for the choirs. All the remaining matches are in Auckland and the Wellington choristers don't get a look in.

I was on TV last night, though, but my brother said I didn't look as if I was singing. I had to explain that the rather poncy arrangement of "Ireland's Call" we were using has 13 bars at the beginning before the basses start singing. It would be just my luck to be on TV during this period! It starts with the orchestra, then the sopranos, then the altos, then the tenors, and the basses come in on the chorus.

But I did give it a lot of welly when we got going - it's an easy song to do (being basically a bar-room bellow!). But we basses usually do subvocal humming or singing along with the song during the previous bits, so that we get the pitch right when we do come in - I expect that's why the lips were moving...

And we sang the Welsh anthem 'My henlad..." after that, which is a super song. When we did the rehearsal for this, the lady conductor (who is the deputy chair of the NZ Choral federation) spent a lot of time balancing the voices, having us all sing our parts in twos and threes (now *that's* scary, if you like...) and moving us around until we all sounded right, then let us rip. We reduced her to snivels, we sounded so good, and it was profoundly moving, though I say so as shouldn't. The singers who have made it this far are generally very good ones, including several semi-pros and one or two from the opera chorus here. So it is a bit of a privilege to be allowed to hang out and sing with them and I have learned a whole lot.

And of course, you get on the pitch, in the middle of the baying mob, and most of it goes straight out of the window anyway! But singing at the 4 matches I have done has been really good fun.

Can't wait to see how it all turn out!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST,Fossil at work
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 04:06 AM

The previous GUEST post was me, as well!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 06:27 AM

Well Fossil, for me your singing was the most enjoyable thing about that game.

And not just because (from an Irish perspective) it was the only enjoyable thing in that game ...

... great rousing stuff!!

If only you'd been allowed to wear your magic leprechaun hat on the pitch ...

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Little Robyn
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 02:57 PM

One of last night's games had originally been planned for Christchurch.
On this morning's news, Christchurch had another aftershock at 8:30 last night - a 5.5!!!!
Can you imagine the chaos if they had gone ahead with the original plan?
A Rockin' rollin' quarterfinal!
I bet it was exciting for those people who had gathered to watch at the Chch venue.
So now the All Blacks will play the Wallabies in Auckland next week.
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST,bokkie
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 06:56 AM

Dit was nie 'n goei naweek nie!
Totsiens!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 07:02 AM

By all the laws of nature, the Wallabies should have crumbled in the last 20 minutes - and they didn't.

Now, does Robbie keep Cooper for next week after his quarter-final performance? One would assume that he shouldn't play that badly twice in a row, but I would be happy to see Berrick Barnes at five-eighth, and if McCabe is still injured, use Fainga'a at inside centre.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 03:27 PM

hi

Just got back from a few days in Wales.

Watched all the matches in Welsh pubs and had great time.

England Result wasn't what I wanted but France were the better team on the day.

The Wales forwards played well and I think they deserved their victory. Wales have some good young players who are playing well. They have a good mix of youth and experience.

So I guess now I will shout for Wales.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Fossil
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 11:01 PM

As regards the music for the later stages of the RWC, I found this press release today:

"Four premier Kiwi singers have been confirmed for the anthem singing roles at the two semi-finals of Rugby World Cup 2011 (RWC 2011).
Elizabeth Marvelly, Nick Afoa, Ainslie Allen and Jonathan Lemalu will sing the anthems at the two RWC 2011 semi-finals on October 15 and 16. They join Hayley Westenra and Will Martin, who were previously confirmed to sing the anthems at the Final on October 23."

So bye-bye the NZCF anthem choirs. Actually, I quite like Hayley Westenra, who is a sweet girl and I've heard Jonathan Lemalu in concert and he is awesome.

Go Wales!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: goatfell
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 03:36 PM

Come on Wales

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 04:23 AM

Just to say as an Englishman that I am behind Wales and hope they beat the French today. 3 - 0 up already. However, how the hell did they just miss that penalty. Must be nerves.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 04:32 AM

Blimey, Wales caption gets the red card, and withing minutes France square the match.

Can't help thinking that Wales have just lost the game.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 06:05 AM

They have :-(

I've not seen the incident but it sounds as though the sending off was a bit controversial.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 08:08 AM

What a joke - Wales deserve to be in the final - France hardly deserve to be in tournament - yet here they are.

The red card was a wild overreaction to a good tackle followed by careful attention by warburton to make sure he didn't cause any damage.

Wales scored the only try.

France should be ashamed of themselves - in the final after losing two pool stage matches and completely failing to dominate a 14 man Welsh squad.

We the viewing public were robbed of a great tournament by an indefensible decision.

I will be watching the final to bear witness to France being given a proper spanking for daring to walk out on the pitch.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 09:01 AM

I saw it and am wearing mt red shirt with pride. Still like the 13 man game better though. And I don't mean 2 sent off on each side :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 10:49 AM

Hi

i watched the whole match live. It was never going to be a high scoring game with the tackling by both sides ferocious.

On balance of play Wales were on top until the controversial sending off of Warburton the Welsh skipper.

I have to say that as I watched it I thought the referee had made a correct decision. It look dangerous and he appeared to "spear" the Frenchman to the ground. But the slo-mo proves me to be wrong and the tackle whilst hard and probably slightly illegal was worth no more than a penalty.

So it was tough on Wales but they tried to play as a team and turn this situation around.

The almost pulled it off but as as been happening all through the tournament vital missed penalties cost them the game.

My commiserations go out to Wales who played well throughout the Tournament and deserved better fate than this. I think that their performances both on and off the pitch will have gained them many new friends - including this Englishman who is passionate and patriotic about his rugby.

Bad luck Wales but after all.....that is sport.

Cheers

Mikel2

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 11:21 AM

"On balance of play Wales were on top until the controversial sending off of Warburton the Welsh skipper."

Wales were on top after warburton was sent off, they had all the possession and the only try.

With Warburton on it would have been a whitewash.

However, credit must be given to the French kicker who got his kicks in while Hook and Jones missed theirs.

Also surprised at misssed drop goal opportunity in last 5 minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MartinRyan
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 11:32 AM

The way that "spear tackle" rule is now, it seems to me that the only way to avoid being sent off, if you tackle a guy in such a way that his arse ends up higher than his head, is to cradle him gently in your arms, carry him to the touchline and offer him a nice cup of tea! You can't shove his head in the ground and you can't just let him drop... Both are regarded as dangerous play.

On today's performance, I reckon BOTH New Zealand and Australia could put out second string teams and still beat the French. Otherwise this is carrying "saving it for the final" to a ridiculous level!

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 12:30 PM

It is easy to blame decisions on the referee, but he should have never been put in that position.
An inportant semi-final between two nothern hemisphere clubs should automatically have been awarded to a southern hemisphere ref.
The fact that it was an Irish ref (Wales knocked Ireland out in the quarter finals) whose father was French, makes you wonder just what the IRB (International Rugby Board) were thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 12:30 PM

p.s. those grapes were sour!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 03:10 PM

Max Boyce put it best. As true today as it ever was:


I am an entertainer
And I sing for charity,
For Oxfam and for Shelter,
For those worse off than me.

Bangladesh, Barnardo's Homes,
And though I don't get paid
It does one good to do some work
For things like Christian Aid.

But of all the concerts that I've done
For the homeless overseas
The one I did that pleased me most
Was not for refugees.

'Twas for a home in Ireland
That stands amongst the trees,
The Sunshine Home in Dublin
For blind Irish Referees!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 04:20 PM

Hard luck... Here's a post I put on a thread above the line before the match:

I don't normally get the Times, but there was a free one when I bought Private Eye from WH Smiths today - and in a rather over-strained "funny" page about how English Rugby fans are supposed to be switching their allegiance to Wales now that England has been knocked out of the Rugby World Cup, there's a "phonetic version of Land of my Fathers", which might be quite useful.

Here it is - (and here is a you tube rendering with the original words for a singalong, and a translation...)

My hen laid a haddock on top of a tree
Glad farts and centurions throw dogs in the sea
I could stew a hare here, and brandish Don's flan.
Don's ruddy bog's blocked up with sand.
Dad! Dad! Why don't you oil Aunty Glad?
When whores appear on beer bottle pies,
Oh butter the hens as they fly.
Dad! Dad! Why don't you oil Aunty Glad?
When whores appear on beer bottle pies,
Oh butter the hens as they fly.

Once more with feeling!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 04:33 PM

Here is the link

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 06:33 PM

Rick O'Shea (English language commentator on S4C) made the point that the IRB doesn't allow referees discretion on 'spear tackles'.

At least I've still got an interest in the competition - as a Scot, all my grandparents had dual nationality so were elligible to apply for French passports.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST,Fossil at work
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 12:54 AM

Just to digress from *that* decision, I was surprised and pleased to see Jonathon Lemalu being backed by a choir when he sang the anthems. But what a voice that bloke has got!

Oh well, a lot of the fun has gone out of the RWC now. The rest of NZ is on the collective edge of its seat waiting for the result of the All Blacks v Australia, (the *real* final, as many down here are calling it) but I find myself in "who-gives-a-shit" situation. And whoever wins the Southern Hemisphere clash, don't ask me to support France in the final. Perhaps, though I should, as without exception every team I have supported in this championship has duly lost at the next opportunity!

Looking for a beret...

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Gurney
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 02:55 AM

And a string of onions. Go the ABs.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 05:02 AM

Majestic from New Zealand today - pity there's no Carter so that the quality of play were better reflected by the scoreline.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Little Robyn
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 05:46 AM

5 minutes to go and it's ABs20, Wallabies 6.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Little Robyn
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 06:03 AM

That's it!
Final score 20/6.
We're in the finals!!!
Go the ABs.
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 06:18 AM

Severe gritting of teeth, and supporting New Zealand in the final.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 07:31 AM

Hi

Well played ABs - they were the better team throughout and deserved to win. Perhaps as is suggested above that had Carter been available the game might have been played differently and the ABs's territorial advantage could have been converted into points. But what matter?? They won and are in the Final. This is something of a novelty recently as the ABs have not featured really in recent competitions.

It was an exciting game to watch with some tremendous tackling going on from both sides. I don't think that I have seen so many blooded noses and cuts in one game before. Hard stuff !!

I have always admired the way the All Blacks play ever since I saw them many years ago play in Manchester when I witnessed probably the best ever kicker the game has ever seen. I am talking about Don Clarke. Don was a great rugby player and all-round sportsman - he played first class cricket too.

I will be supporting New Zealand even though the only link I have is that my niece has recently been over there during a World-wide trip.

Oh and many bruises suffered from some of the many NZs who I have encountered in my own rugby career.

But I am not counting my chickens just yet.......as Jimmy Greaves once said about Football......"it's a funny old game".

Cheers

Mikel2

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Bruce from Bathurst
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 09:23 AM

Australia was totally outplayed. Simple as that. There were mercurial players out there who either had the jitters or were under instructions to play dull and boring rugby. Not clever and not good enough. The Wallabies should know that giving bloody noses to All Blacks just make them annoyed.

France? My advice to you is forfeit the final, spend a few days in New Caledonia relaxing and complaining about the coach, then go home. You've exceeded most people's expectations already and you can only go backwards from here. Noumea is lovely and most of the locals will probably like you.

Our weekly music session in the pub this afternoon featured a large TV (with the sound off!) screening today's OTHER football match. Australia crushed New Zealand 42-6. Sadly, it was rugby league, so nobody cares.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 09:29 AM

Rick O'Shea (English language commentator on S4C) made the point that the IRB doesn't allow referees discretion on 'spear tackles'.

From the IRB Memorandum (8 June 2009):
"At a subsequent IRB High Performance Referee Seminar at Lensbury referees were advised that for these types of tackles they were to start at red card as a sanction and work backwards."
...
...

"To summarise, the possible scenarios when a tackler horizontally lifts a player off the ground:

The player is lifted and then forced or "speared" into the ground. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle.

The lifted player is dropped to the ground from a height with no regard to the player's safety. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle.

For all other types of dangerous lifting tackles, it may be considered a penalty or yellow card is sufficient.
Referees and Citing Commissioners should not make their decisions based on what they consider was the intention of the offending player. Their decision should be based on an objective assessment (as per Law 10.4 (e)) of the circumstances of the tackle."

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Bruce from Bathurst
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 10:26 AM

Our pathetic Australian commercial TV commentary of the France/Wales match analysed every aspect of the fabulous Welsh performance in minute detail, apart from two minor points:

1. Warburton was sent off because the referee considered he made a dangerous tackle. Wales were then 'underdogs', as far as the commentators were concerned, because it was then 14 against 15 players. Umm. That was because Warburton did a bad thing! Why are they the victims?

2. Wales lost. If the other team hadn't turned up, the one-sided commentary might have been justified but France actually won and the Australian audience had to put up with almost total denial of the fact. France is through to the Big Game and we had to hear the endless tales of woe about the luckless losers. Nothing about the one or two French players who might have made a reasonable attempt at playing the game.

As I said earlier, France should cut its losses and go home early. They're fortunate to be playing next week. Don't make things worse.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 10:37 AM

Today's 'Scotland on Sunday' printed stills of the tackle, showing Clerc being vertical when landing on the back of his neck. Wales have also not appealed against Warburton's suspension.

Nobody ever said the Laws of Rugby Union Football were fair. When I played, it was accepted that you would be penalised for not rolling away even if unconscious.

Anyway, I enjoyed today's game. Next week's are very promising, even if the French haven't been the same since they changed from being 'Les Tricoleurs' into 'Les Bleus'. Maybe someone should go and drag Philippe Bernat-Salles out of the pub!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Gurney
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 11:22 PM

Well, I watched the ABs/Wallabies match on TV, and I thought it was a hard-fought, dour struggle from go to whoa, with the Aussies never out of it until it ended. A defender's match, a kickers match.
Looking forward to the final (most here think that WAS the final) and maybe a running match?

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 11:18 AM

What????

The AB's v the Wobblies was a kickers match?

In what reality exactly?

The all blacks missed about 5 kicks .....

Had it been a kickers match, New zealands score would have been at last 12 points higher than it was.

Some bizarre comments here.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 12:58 PM

france have a good chance of winning

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 02:43 PM

Bruce... "If the other team hadn't turned up, the one-sided commentary might have been justified but France actually won..."

Indeed! This happens with Canadian commentators during international hockey (yeah, I KNOW... ICE hockey) tournaments to the point it becomes sickening. But, the is the first time I was taken aback by the CONTINUOUS babble of a rugby commentator. One or two "praises"... okay. But it really became embarrassing and showed poor sportsmanship.

As for the tackle, tough call. It certainly could have led to injury. Let us not forget, the ref and judges have to make a call without the aid of a dozen slow-mo replays from a near perfect viewing angle. They can't get ever call perfect. I allow/agree with the call.

It was an exciting game (match?) but I did not enjoy the outcome.

Gary Owens >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 04:06 PM

Not true Gnu.

The video ref has all the benefit of the slow motion replays etc.

It was very clear that Warburton went out of his way to ensure that he didn't land on clerc. He took great care, once the tackle had been made - and once he realized that it wasn't his opposite number he was tackling but a tiny substitute - to ensure that no damage was done and that clerc was safe and unhurt.

Interesting to note that the same thing happened against Tonga - clerc made the strange decision to come into the pack and play whwre the big guys are - with exactly the same results - he was picked up by a surprised tongan forward and lifted into the air - surprised because no back row player with a sense of self preservation would be foolish enough to get caught in the contact area.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 04:23 PM

Interesting to note that the same thing happened against Tonga
Either Clerc is very unlucky to have suffered twice, or he has found a way to get his team extra penalties!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 01:53 PM

I thought the video ref could only "ref" when asked by the ref. No?

Ya know, the more I think about it with the added comments about Clerc's size and position, the more I am inclined to agree with a yellow. Still, I gotta go with the ref.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Gurney
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 02:06 PM

Lox, my idea of a good game is when plenty of tries are scored. When matches are decided by field goals and penalties, it makes me wish for the old days when they got was a single point for those efforts.

As it was in my youth.....

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 02:44 PM

Not a bad idea for consideration. A single for a penatly BUT still 3 for a drop.... maybe? I'd like to hear other viewpoints.

To me, Yankee football has been a somewhat "degraded" by 3 point field goals which have become up to 55 yards or so... the kickers are becoming so accurate I think it hurts the overall game. On a 100 yard field, it just doesn't seem right.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 03:45 PM

" it makes me wish for the old days when they got was a single point for those efforts."

And no points for touching the ball down behind the goal line. But you did get the chance of a 'try at goal' as they still call it in the NFL!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 03:48 PM

Dave... I don't understand... ?

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 03:58 PM

Back in 1871, football matches were decided entirely by goals. In games played under Rugby Laws, touching the ball down over the goal line gave the attacking team a free kick from the goal line where the ball had been touched down, which was then 'marked' by another member of that team, who, in turn was entitled to take a free kick at goal. Once the touchdowns were recognized, they still only counted if the number of goals were equal. Eventually point values were allocated, and in due course achieved their modern values with a try worth more than a goal. Incidentally, originally 'field goals' could be scored by fly-hacking a loose ball, though this is long gone..

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 04:56 PM

If they did drop it to one point, would teams become more likely to concede penalties?

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 02:24 PM

Thanks, Dave. I just don't know the history of rugby... only what I learned at uni. Or, didn't know until I received your PM. Thanks much for that as well.

Excellent point, Jon.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 06:08 PM

"Lox, my idea of a good game is when plenty of tries are scored."

Me too - and I think the team who scores the tries deserves to win.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:18 AM

I'm afraid I'm not a great lover of tries at all cost. What I want is a close game (decided by tries) where the result is in doubt right until the final whistle. I was watching Eddie Butler's programme on the '71 Lions last night (admittedly just highlights}, and it struck me how much faster the game seemed to be then - no mauls and everybody stayed on their feet at the tackle.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: paula t
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 05:37 PM

Hi Dave,
I watched that programme too and really enjoyed it! The one aspect of the Lions game which most impressed me was the incredibly fast ball from the breakdown. That lovely "whippy" pass straight from the floor which was then quickly moved on. The backs could take the ball at pace.This is something the England team do not seem to have enjoyed for quite a while. The ball stays at the back feet while the defence line up their men....then a few short steps to telegraph the direction and our backs have to take the ball standing still. No wonder they then run straight into a wall.I shouted myself hoarse during their last match, trying to will the ball off the floor and into someone's hands so we could at least try an attacking move. I always swore I wouldn't shout at the telly!Is that a sign of age?

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 06:55 AM

Well it looks like the honour of signing off is mine ...

NZ deserved the cup for consistency throughout the tournament, but France very nearly took it from them, and in the process more than redeemed themselves for the horrible way they got that far.

There are some who have commented that NZ played very cynically, and that there shouls have been a few French penalties, but I'd have to watch again to besure that was a fair comment - I was cheering for NZ so may have overlooked any debatable transgressions ...

All in all an amazing nerve jangling match though, and NZ defence against the French onslaught was awesome.

The tournament as a whole was redeemed and France went out with their heads held high - and with the right to tell their critics back home to shove it!

Ah well ... bring on the 6 nations!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Gurney
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 06:40 PM

I was too tired to comment last night.
I really thought that the All-Blacks would lose when the French got their tails up in the second half, they looked the better side. Both side's kickers were off their games, and the margin was one point. One point! The French played their most determined game of the tournament, and the AB's their most tentative.
A nailbiter.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: gnu
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 06:55 PM

A nailbiter indeed! I thought the French played a better overall game but the scoreboard is where the decision is made. Although I would like to discuss what I found to be VERY odd strategy (to me, I am NOT well versed in such) on both sides, this is not the place or time to do it. This is the place and time to say... WELL DONE All Blacks!

BTW, today, I stayed away from ALL news, TV, radio, Mudcat... even had to shush two lads talkin about the game at the beer store and say, "I haven't seen the game yet so don't say any more, please." It was on TV here in the early AM and then again at 4PM. I enjoyed. AND, it was on a major US TV network. There is hope to bring the game to NA in a big way. It's slim, but there is hope.... I hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 07:42 PM

Fair play to France. I had thought and hoped they would get thrashed...

And Congrats to NZ.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 04:56 AM

Nice for the Kiwis to have a win after the terrible year they have had, but spare a thought for the French.

Their third rugby World Cup final, played like champions - and still came up empty.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Ana
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 05:05 AM

NZ's just had a long weekend - the sort of thing just made for a folk festival - and that's exactly what happens in Wellington! The Wellington Folk Festival finished a few hours ago: about a 1000 people gathered up a small valley in the hills, the cold evenings warmed with revelry and music.
About 200 crammed into a small hall where the big game was screened, and what a blast it was! Great craic, a hard game fought well, and - of course - a fantastic result!
Many NZ'ers still haven't forgiven the French government for its 1985 terrorist activity in the Auckland harbour, when a ship was bombed and sunk with the loss of a life.
These wins don't make things better, but it sure does feel great!
La Bomb!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Gurney
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 05:11 AM

Gnu, The game that is growing fastest worldwide is rugby seven-a-side, usually called 'Rugby Sevens.' Part of the reason for the growth is that it is a faster, more running game, without the same requirement for a forward-line of big guys. Well, fewer of them, anyway, and less big guys to get past to score, so that nations where the men are of generally smaller stature can be competitive. The main competitors are the usual culprits, GB, Ireland, Oz, NZ, SA, but it was noted in commentary that it was getting much harder to beat the 'minnows,' so although NZ are current champions at that too, it may be that their tenure is ending. Googling the NZ site for Sevens shows that current ABs are also Sevens men. The lighter ones.

I understand that both men's and women's Sevens are to be included at the next Olympics. A chance for some tough chicks to get a gold medal, eh? The USA are already on the way to that.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: Lox
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 06:02 AM

Seven a side is in fact dominated by Fiji and has been for as long as I can remember (having gone to the HK sevens every year of my childhood).

Fiji are like the Harlem Globetrotters of Rugby Sevens, and one of the reasons they are so good is that their players are not just fast, but also huge.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup 2011
From: MikeL2
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 10:39 AM

hi

I have not been able to congratulate The All Blacks on their victory until now.

I watched the game with baited breath. Not the free running spectacular that many thought it would be.

Engrossing and exciting though with the final result always in doubt.

On reflection ( and looking at a recording of the game ) I think that New Zealand just about earned the title.

France though surprised many people, But not me. I know from old France are like the little girl " when they are good they are very very good and when they are bad they are horrid." France have often showed the temperamental side of their nature many times. I suspected that they would pull out a performance and they did.

They showed that maybe the supposed gap between Southern and Northern Hemisphere rugby is not as wide as is thought in some quarters.

Well done All Blacks - keep the flag flying !!!

Cheers

MikeL2