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recording search help - Dido, Bendigo

DigiTrad:
DIDO, BENDIGO


Dazbo 11 Sep 11 - 04:22 PM
peregrina 11 Sep 11 - 04:49 PM
GUEST,PeterC 11 Sep 11 - 05:38 PM
GUEST 11 Sep 11 - 05:56 PM
John P 12 Sep 11 - 12:12 AM
GUEST,Erich 12 Sep 11 - 08:04 AM
GUEST,SteveG 12 Sep 11 - 01:42 PM
Brian May 12 Sep 11 - 04:15 PM
Joe Offer 24 May 20 - 01:33 AM
Reinhard 24 May 20 - 02:24 AM
Reinhard 24 May 20 - 03:02 AM
Reinhard 24 May 20 - 03:21 AM
Jim Carroll 24 May 20 - 03:36 AM
GUEST,akenaton 24 May 20 - 05:30 AM
GUEST,akenaton 24 May 20 - 05:49 AM
Jim Carroll 24 May 20 - 05:53 AM
GUEST,akenaton 24 May 20 - 06:22 AM
Steve Gardham 24 May 20 - 06:29 AM
GUEST,akenaton 24 May 20 - 06:36 AM
Steve Gardham 24 May 20 - 06:45 AM
Jim Carroll 24 May 20 - 06:49 AM
GUEST,akenaton 24 May 20 - 06:55 AM
GUEST,akenaton 24 May 20 - 06:59 AM
GUEST,akenaton 24 May 20 - 07:04 AM
Jim Carroll 24 May 20 - 07:09 AM
GUEST,akenaton 24 May 20 - 07:14 AM
Jim Carroll 24 May 20 - 07:21 AM
GUEST,akenaton 24 May 20 - 08:34 AM
Steve Gardham 24 May 20 - 09:22 AM
Jim Carroll 24 May 20 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,akenaton 24 May 20 - 09:47 AM
Dave Sutherland 24 May 20 - 09:50 AM
Jim Carroll 24 May 20 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,akenaton 24 May 20 - 10:00 AM
GUEST,akenaton 24 May 20 - 10:44 AM
Jim Carroll 24 May 20 - 11:00 AM
Steve Gardham 24 May 20 - 03:07 PM
GUEST 24 May 20 - 04:27 PM
GUEST,akenaton 24 May 20 - 05:11 PM
GUEST 24 May 20 - 11:30 PM
Joe Offer 24 May 20 - 11:34 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 25 May 20 - 02:20 PM
GeoffLawes 26 May 20 - 06:20 PM
GUEST,Rigby 28 May 20 - 05:57 AM
Jim Carroll 28 May 20 - 08:13 AM
Steve Gardham 28 May 20 - 10:42 AM
GUEST 28 May 20 - 11:18 AM
GUEST 28 May 20 - 11:22 AM
Brian Peters 28 May 20 - 01:40 PM
GUEST,akenaton 28 May 20 - 02:03 PM
Steve Gardham 28 May 20 - 02:10 PM
Steve Gardham 28 May 20 - 02:19 PM
Steve Gardham 28 May 20 - 03:50 PM
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Subject: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Dazbo
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 04:22 PM

A friend wanted to sing a song she knew but could only vaguely remember the tune. I'm sure I've got it on a CD somewhere but can't remember which one. I've had a look in the lyric search and it seems it was recorded as Dido, Bendigo by the Watersons but I know I've not got the CD this is on. I presume this song goes by a number of titles so it might be on a CD I've got but with a different name (The Noble Foxhunt doesn't ring a bell with me either).

Can Mudcatters suggest other recordings of this song (I'm sure it's by and English group, on a CD and it's been available in the past 5 to 10 years)


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: peregrina
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 04:49 PM

You can find the lyrics, score, notes and listen to a recording of the song at the Yorkshire Garland site:

Dido Bendigo at Yorkshire Garland


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 05:38 PM

That's pretty well the version which I learned in my local folk club before I had even heard of The Watersons (a VERY long time ago), there is a slightly different text in Garners Gay


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 05:56 PM

The Watersons recorded it on their Topic album "The Watersons" and it is also on their boxed collection "Mighty river of Sound"


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: John P
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 12:12 AM

William Pint and Felicia Dale recorded it on "Hartwell Horn".


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,Erich
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 08:04 AM

The song is also known as "The Noble Fox Hunting" (recorded by M. Wyndham-Read and by the Wayfarers)
A slightly different version was recorded by Brian Dewhurst ("The Noble Duke of Buckingham's Hounds").


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,SteveG
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 01:42 PM

There is I think already a thread on this somewhere but the Watersons also recorded a more northerly offshoot of The Duke's Hunt called Swarthfell Rocks. This genre of hunting songs were usually traditionally written (or rewritten) by members of the hunts themselves, and as people moved from one pack to another or mixed at hunt suppers the songs were adapted to other occasions. Of course the original in this case was probably written by a London hack who was acquainted with the event. We have here an interesting evolution over more than 3 centuries which involves different versions being shunted backwards and forwards around the country between broadside printers and hunt followers, and of course latterly the folk scene. Swarthfell Rocks appears to have reached the Lake District via the Hexham Hunt version which appeared on broadsides. Dido Bendigo/Spendigo of course was widely printed all over the country since the late 18thc.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Brian May
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 04:15 PM

Pop to the iTunes store and stick the title in.

You can have a quick listen to the Watersons, but I bought the album by Y Hennesey's - including this wonderful track.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 May 20 - 01:33 AM

needs cleanup


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Reinhard
Date: 24 May 20 - 02:24 AM

The link in the second post doesn't work any more, Joe. Can you fix it to Dido Bendigo at Yorkshire Garland, please?


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Reinhard
Date: 24 May 20 - 03:02 AM

The Traditional Ballad Index gives Chappell (1924) as its earliest reference. But Sabine Baring Gould printed The Duke's Hunt in 1905 in Songs of the West. He collected it from James Oliver of Lauceston, Cornwall, in 1888.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Reinhard
Date: 24 May 20 - 03:21 AM

Sorry, two typos. It's James Olver from Launceston, Cornwall.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 03:36 AM

I was interested to learn recently that one of the few leading producers of traditional albums were wary of issuing songs like this in their productions
I submitted a collection we have in our archive for a possible CD of Yorkshire songs (now issued as 'Songs of the North Riding') and was delighted to be told of their reluctance to use hunting songs - about time, surely ?
This brutal form of killing for pleasure is almost (if not quite) illegal in Britain now and, like bull-baiting and dog-fighting, has on a validity as an example of the darker side of primitive Britain
"Noble" fox-hunting hardly !
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 24 May 20 - 05:30 AM

There speaks a true traditionalist. Hunting songs and coursing songs go back pretty far into folk song history.   Another example of selective tradition by the politically minded.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 24 May 20 - 05:49 AM

I am not a follower of Foxhunting but it is obviously a sport which involves a large portion of risk to the competitors....and "following the hounds" must be a thrilling experience.
In numerous coursing songs the hare outwits the hounds in what is a contest of speed and agility, but I know from experience the trill of watching greyhounds fully extended performing the function for which they are uniquely equipped.
I've never heard any songs about bull baiting? bear baiting, or dog fighting which would have no redeeming features.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 05:53 AM

"Hunting songs and coursing songs go back pretty far into folk song history."
As does bar baiting and dog fighting - and hanging, drawing and quartering

Nothing to do with being a traditionalist - maybe "humanitarian" is the word you're looking for ?
I related that flaw in my character when I was taking to a coursing at Waterloo when I worked on the Liverpool docks
I witnessed a crowd cheering on two dogs as they tore a living, screaming, writhing hare into two pieces
Put me off 'sport' for life   
Jim


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 24 May 20 - 06:22 AM

Well this thread is about folk song which as you know is full of cruelty and violence.....all of humanity is there including support for various violent groups and the song in question celebrates the speed, stamina and aggression of the participants.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 May 20 - 06:29 AM

By that same token are we by singing any song that contains violence or other acts that are obviously not acceptable today to be taken to be colluding with those acts? The folk song canon is going to be mighty small if that is the case! Think about it.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 24 May 20 - 06:36 AM

That was the point which I was rather clumsily trying to make Steve.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 May 20 - 06:45 AM

Here's another example. Part of Hull's heritage and its rise as a city and port is the whaling industry in the 18th/19th centuries. Before plastic/fossil fuels were discovered the whale provided absolutely essential products to the progress of mankind. None of those products are needed today. As part of our heritage our group recorded an album of whaling songs which sold very well particularly in our local whaling museum. They were historical documents. All 6 of us abhor the killing of these magnificent creatures. We stated as such in the album notes. Are we hypocrites?


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 06:49 AM

I'm talking about a genre which glorifies a brutal and now illegal sport which is being vigorously fought for to be reinstated on the public calendar Steve - I think that makes these songs a special case
I don't like censorship of this kind but I find there to be a line
Some time ago there was a move by feminists (philosophy I support) to stop the singing of misogynistic songs   
I could see their point but felt that, set in a programme next to some women's songs about 'limp' or otherwise inadequate men, they had a part to play in features such as 'Battle of the Sexees' (a regular in the clubs I frequented)
At present I'm wondering what to do with a few extremely impressive versions of 'The Jew's Daughter for my Irish Child Ballad project - good tunes, interesting words.... but!
These songs are historical documents but all too often are treated as male entertainment
It's a point well-worth debating, of course
Jim


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 24 May 20 - 06:55 AM

Certainly not Steve, most of these songs celebrate the bravery and endurance of the whaling crews rather than the slaughter of the whales. They also celebrate a speed and seaworthiness of the whaling vessels or the seaman ship of the Captains. Basically folk songs celebrate endeavour for good or bad …...tell it like it is!


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 24 May 20 - 06:59 AM

Jim they are only a "special case" because they don't fit your personal point of view.....and only to make a political point.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 24 May 20 - 07:04 AM

"The Jews Daughter"......I suppose you could always amend to "The Tory's Daughter", then everything would be hunky dorey?


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 07:09 AM

"because they don't fit your personal point of view"
Hunting is now illegal - not just "my" point of view and it never has been
I wouldn't suggest that you are supporting these songs because "that is only your point of view" - whatever I might think
AS I say, I'd love to see these songs debated, but not at this level
There are far to many no-go areas already
Jim


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 24 May 20 - 07:14 AM

Well Steve has alluded to the fact that your viewpoint would exclude half the folk song canon?


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 07:21 AM

You're evading the point Ake - should we be glorifying butal and illegal blood sports because they entertain some people
Personalls - as songs I find the as oring as it comes - no plots about men who prefer pink coats "The unspeakable in pursuit o the inedible"
Jim


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 24 May 20 - 08:34 AM

Well Jim, I am not "supporting these songs", I am supporting the Status Quo. You are the one who is suggesting deletion of songs which are no longer politically correct. There are dozens of hunting songs, dozens of whaling songs, and dozens of songs which support armed aggression, be it in favour of the Jacobite cause in Scotland, the Unionist cause in England, or the Republican cause in Ireland. If we were to proscribe them all half the folk singers and groups would be unemployed.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 May 20 - 09:22 AM

I see Jim's point, Ake, in that as opposed to most of the rest of the songs most of the hunting songs do nothing but glorify the activity. I would think twice about singing to a non-heritage audience any song that glorified something offensive. I am opposed to immoderate drinking of alcohol which puts a tremendous burden on our health service and other services, and yet I sing songs that glorify alcohol, Fathom the Bowl, Barley Mow, etc. To most people they are just good songs with great choruses.

Coming back to Dido Bendigo. The original song took place in the 1680s, the Bedale or Bilsdale and yes it was one of the highest profile figures of that period who was being celebrated. It is a straightforward description of one day's hunt, and as this version has come down to us it isn't a particularly gory or glory example. However, when I sang it for the website, it was as an example of a piece of Yorkshire history, the original hunt having taken place in Yorkshire, and being made famous by the Watersons of Yorkshire, and I don't think I have sung it since that recording was made.

Jim mentioned Sir Hugh and his struggling with that ballad. I had exactly the same problem with it in our forthcoming next book. Only one verse out of 12 mentions the offending murderess and by altering a couple of words this was alleviated. Of course an explanation of the redaction is given in the notes to the song.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 09:23 AM

"You are the one who is suggesting deletion of songs"
No I am not Ake - they are there and they are very much a part of the tradition - I am suggesting it was a wise decision on the part of Rod Stradling to decide to avoid using them
I personally find them boring and offensive and am happy to just avoid them in clubs - if that's what turns you on......
I find the trm "politically correct" equally offensive - something is either right or wrong - the term is usually used to defend things that are wrong
Whaling was a necessity to existence when the songs were made - no longer the case
Surprising as it may seem, the overall majority of whaling songs are about the hardships of the life - there was s.f.a. glorious about thet to either the beasts being slaughtered or the men reduced to such hardships in order to stay alive -
Those songs make up some of the finest comments on the human condition of all our folk-songs
Armed aggression's is, like 'terrorism', a matter of where you stand
Those who are so horrified at what happened in the name of Ireland didn't blink an eyelid at the needless deaths of over one million people fifty years earlier during the Famine
The same people sang songs which drove an entire generation to their deaths in the mud of Europe in 1914-18 in what was little more that a squabble between to royal families as to who would rule the world - and again just over twenty years later
I've always thought of Jacobite-ism as a couple of wars of national independence
These are all valid subjects for recording in song and preserving - I can't see that killing for pleasure is   

There are so few Hunting songs as to make not he slightest impact on our wonderfully rich folk repertoire - Christ knows, it's difficult to find some of the best well sung nowadays without worrying about artistic dross about chasing beautiful animals until their hearts burst
You're wriggling Ake
Maybe somebody should start writing songs about The Hunger Games, people seem to find that sort of thing entertaining!!
Jim


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 24 May 20 - 09:47 AM

I agree Steve but none of the hunting or coursing songs glorify the kill, they describe the thrill of the chase, the wile of the fox and the agility of the hare, which is often the hero or heroine of the tale.
I've been involved with racing dogs all my life, but have never attended a coursing meeting, these dogs are born to hunt, the instinct is in them and they are built for one purpose only and that is to chase.
The songs do glorify the activity … of the chase, not the kill and as often as not the hare or the fox outwits or outruns the dogs. Some of these songs are far from boring, and are classics of the genre.
In answer to Jim, would he be in favour of banning "The Internationale" or other extreme left wing songs.....(I could name a couple of hundred) on the grounds that they promote a system which inevitably results in millions of deaths and a population of automatons.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 24 May 20 - 09:50 AM

Songs about dog-fighting? There was one in the repetory of The Elliotts of Birtley called "Champion He Was A Dandy" which might be classed as "a song of it's time". I learned it from subsequent hearings at their club but I don't think I ever sang it out and certainly having thought quite hard about the song dumped it and never returned to it. The only hunting song that I ever do is "The Old Bitch Fox" where both the fox and the local proletariat thwart the hunters.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 09:58 AM

"I agree Steve but none of the hunting or coursing songs glorify the kill"
What ????
What are they about - pink jackets
Most of them glorify the cornering and killing of the fox and adding indignity to its death by chopping it's tail and sometimes ears off as souvenirs
No animals are "born" to do anything but live - some are bred to kill
The 'blooding' of young children should be classified as an act of Child abuse

If it's any help, we did used to sing a hunting song as children in Liverpool
Dy'e ken John Peel with his balls of steel
And his dick made of rubber, so he shoved it up his mother.
His mother said, "that's nice", so he shoved it up her twice;
In the end she had twins in the morning

That was before we knew better, mind you
Jim


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 24 May 20 - 10:00 AM

This little video contains one of the great coursing songs by one of my all time favourites Al O'Donnell
Ryans Fancy


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 24 May 20 - 10:44 AM

I never drink alcohol Steve, as it seems a form of self abuse, tho' you are correct that it is a heavy burden on the health and psychiatric services also. That being said in my youth and even today I can join in "Drinking songs" quite happily as most people enjoy them and that enjoyment is infectious, we must not become arbiters of what people should or should not be exposed to, the nanny state has already removed most of our free will and personal responsibility.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 11:00 AM

"O'Donnell"
The Irish always did have the edge over the English in the quality of the hunting songs but that still doesn't make these songs any more acceptable in content (mus say, O'Donnal's gappy singing and and ponderous pace doesn't do that particular one any favours
Anthropomorphising the is merely a way of disguising the fact that, far from escaping virtually all are butchered (wrong term - you can't eat them, can you)
"Nanny State" is yet another term for demanding the right do behave abominably - nobody can claim any establishment that has ever introduced these laws is either progressive or humanitarian by nature
These laws are invariably passed when public pressure becomes so great that to persist in the practices would reflect badly at election time - slavery being a classic case in point
Why perist in hiding behind clichés when you don't believe them - you'll be talking about "the politics of envy" next
C'mon Ake - you used to be better than this
Jim


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 May 20 - 03:07 PM

'these dogs are born to hunt,' so what purpose do they serve in the modern world then? I think it more pertinent to say 'these dogs were bred to hunt' and jolly useful that was in the stone age when man needed a bit of help providing the food, . . . but today?


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 20 - 04:27 PM

One hunting song that I believe was very popular a hundred-odd years ago was A Fine Hunting Day, aka We'll all go a-hunting today, Roud 1172. It's all about everyone going off to join the hunt. It mentions that a fox has been seen, hence the hunt being organised, but that's as far as it gets. There's no description of the chase, let alone of the fox being caught and killed.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 24 May 20 - 05:11 PM

It's all about instinct Steve the hounds chase anything that moves, allied to an athlete's bone and muscle structure, they can cover the ground at 40mph over 500 mtrs Another classic


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 20 - 11:30 PM

With all due respect, if you want to debate the ethicism of singing hunting songs or their place in music - start a thread about it! This thread should be on "Dido Bendigo"

These debates always end up being more of a fruitless mincing of words by sworn enemies, in my opinion, rather than furthering any intellectual discourse

Waterson's recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyWKwnwxx4A
More info: https://mainlynorfolk.info/watersons/songs/didobendigo.html


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 May 20 - 11:34 PM

Chill!!!

Please talk about the song, and only the song. Childish blatherings deleted.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 25 May 20 - 02:20 PM

re: recordings on CD:

Discogs by title/format

About half of them are the The Watersons.

Enter any keyword(s) and choose the format from the menu on the left.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 26 May 20 - 06:20 PM



the Watersons - Dido Bendigo on Youtube


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,Rigby
Date: 28 May 20 - 05:57 AM

There certainly are songs about cock-fighting, and at least one about the 'running of the bull' at Stamford. I've never come across a song about bear-baiting. Perhaps that wasn't the same sort of communal activity that would inspire people to celebrate it in song?

The tradition is complex and frequently ugly and self-contradictory, but it is what it is. Why try to cover up its unattractive aspects, or
misuse it to support political ideas that were not even current when those songs were written and collected?

Personally I have no interest in hunting but no problem with singing hunting songs. It's the humorous ditties about wife-beating that I struggle with.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 20 - 08:13 AM

I'm pretty sure there were broadsides about it, which indicates there were folk songs
According to Defoe, 'Goodnight' songs were so-called because of the spectators calling the word out gleefully as the noose tightened around the victim's neck
Society no longer accepts that level of inhumanity - in my opinion - neither should its songs
Maybe we should popularise such songs as 'Sale of a Wife' again - why not ?
Jim


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 May 20 - 10:42 AM

The problem here lies with the multi-purpose of folk songs, to entertain and to show interest in our social history etc. There is no easy answer and each song needs to be dealt with on its own merits/shortcomings. And of course much depends on individual opinions and preferences, audience being just as important as performer. There are many lines in chanties I used to sing in the 60s I wouldn't touch with a barge-pole these days.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 20 - 11:18 AM

Text transcript and note from the CD 'A Distant Land to Roam'- Musical Traditions MTCD513.

The Fox Hunter’s Song Roud 584 Will Starks (vcl.)   9th August, 1942. Clarkesdale, MISS.

Two young men come riding by
And they was dressed very fine
Said, Johnny don’t you want to go to hunting?
I have hounds of my own Just as good as ever known
There is none in England can beat ‘em. God knows.

There is Roxahanna and Kim, Counselow and Jim
There is none in England can beat ‘em
There is little old Mary Jane
She’s the leader of the strain
There is none in England can beat ‘em. God knows.

As I walked out one morning,
take the morning’s air
I spied the green grass it was chilling
Oh I spied the old sly fox
He come slipping from the rocks
It was three days and better we caught him. God knows.

I put my horn up to my mouth
And I sounded north and south
My lead dog she didn’t fear to hear me
Oh I blowed my horn so loud
It rung like thunder in the cloud
And the old dog she never looked behind her. God knows.

Saddle up my old grey horse
And I’ll throw my legs across
Oh now I’m going foxhunting
Run and tell Miss Mary Ann
She must do the best she can
I am now going foxhunting. God knows.

It was up the highest hill and down the lowest drill
The old fox was making for the water
We will all go home and leave the fox alone
And we’ll roust him so early in the morning. God k

This is quite a remarkable find, being a song first known to have been printed on a blackletter broadside by W Oury of London c.1650. The Reverend Sabine Baring-Gould collected the words and melody from a man named James Oliver and printed it in his Songs of the West (1905) under the title The Duke's Hunt. He says: “This is a mere cento from a long ballad, entitled The Fox Chase, narrating a hunt by Villiers, second duke of Buckingham, in the reign of Charles II. It is in the Roxburghe Collection.’ Since then versions have turned up across England, but Will Starks’ set is, so far as I know, the only version to have been collected in America. Will learnt the song c.1900 from his father.

Other recordings: George Townshend (Sussex) MTCD304.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 20 - 11:22 AM

Should anyone wish to know more about the singer Will Starks, mentioned above, there is the following short note from the CD booklet:

Will Starks, a black singer,was born on a Mississippi plantation near Sardis in 1875. His father, who was a singer, fiddler and banjo player, taught Will many songs. Will could also play the banjo and guitar, the auto-harp and the accordion and apparent played tunes, such as Billy in the Low Ground and Arkansas Traveller which were common to both black and white repertoires.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Brian Peters
Date: 28 May 20 - 01:40 PM

I'm glad someone mentioned Will Starks' version, and told us a bit more about him. Thanks.

On the question of describing the 'kill', The Ullswater Pack has the lines:

They killed in the open, and oh what a din
Over hillside and valley resounded.

Of course the 'din' might be interpreted as the cheers of the huntsmen, but it makes me feel pretty queasy.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 28 May 20 - 02:03 PM

I think we all fail to understand the thrill of the chase, that is why such songs appeared and why they have endured.
I found GUEST's contribution very interesting, his song mentions the wile of the fox, so the chase is a real contest.   Cruelty abounds in nature, and humans are very much apart of nature. The fox is a cruel predator which will kill simply by instinct, not even carrying away the carcases......the same cruel instinct which drives the hounds.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 May 20 - 02:10 PM

GUEST that printing of The Fox Chase or The Huntsman's Harmony was printed by W Onley among others and can't have been as early as 1650. George Villiers, Duke of Buckingham, went to Helmsley where the hunt was in 1685 and he died there after falling from his horse while hunting in 1687, so between 1685 and 87.

Oh, and it's James Olver, not Oliver.

Onley started printing c1650 but continued right up to 1709.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 May 20 - 02:19 PM

Regarding the Stark song which only relates to DB in the final tagged on stanza, it would be interesting to see if the tune relates to any DB versions. The pattern is certainly the same. I cannot see why it would be a remarkable find. The Duke's Hunt was in constant print from 1685 to today in one form or another. The verse and format were available in the widely-printed short version 'Dido and Spandigo'.


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Subject: RE: recording search help - Dido, Bendigo
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 May 20 - 03:50 PM

Hi Brian
The din would be blowing of horns and baying of hounds.


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