Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 18 Sep 11 - 04:28 PM The so-called innocence of racial stereotyping seems sadly (& tragically) misguided today; it is racist - & it is nauseating. Of it's time? So what? Hitler was of his time too. I suggest the erotic imagery / sexual metaphor of Butter & Cheese & All goes further than cheese melting up the chimney. With this in mind, I've often introduced the song as Ultimo Tango a Cley-Juxta-Mare. Go figure! |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: tonyteach1 Date: 18 Sep 11 - 04:34 PM Accusations of racism against someone who died nearly 50 years ago are IMO stupid Formby was a variety act who graduated to films and TV and was a great professional He also did a lot of war work entertaining the troops Who I recall were fighting the Nazis who were just a bit racist themselves Re Mr Woo who ran a laundry became a window cleaner and an Air Raid Warden hardly demeaning THERE ARE MR A NUMBER OF MR WU restaurants all over Soho in London The owners and most of the clientele are Chinese Its like calling an Irish man Murphy like Frank Carson an Irish comic does. The French who are also a tiny bit racist call the English rosbif I got criticised for singing a version of the Road to Mandalay by an earnest African Caribbean guy who kept on until pointed out that Kipling had written a number of poems in admiration of people from different ethnic backgrounds such as Gunga Din and that his idol Mozart protrayal of Monostatos was hardly non racist |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Stringsinger Date: 18 Sep 11 - 04:58 PM Fornby had a great right hand. Great showman. Ukulele Ike did have the first "Singin' in the Rain" before Gene Kelly and it has a great bridge. "Why am I happy and why do I sing? Why does September seem happy as Spring?" Then is has a great modulation. Almost any good guitarist can get around pretty well on a uke. Getting some of those Tahitian rhythms is another thing, though. The Tahitian Uke seems to be tuned with the first string dropped an octave from the conventional Uke C,G,E and the A an octave lower. I would imagine that there are different tunings for this instrument. "The Uke's predecessor comes from Portugal and is sometimes called the "Machete de Braga". The Jumping Flea. The Portugese brought their 4 stringed guitar or 'Machete de Braga' to Hawaii in 1879, when they emigrated to work in the sugar industry. The Hawaiians were impressed with the speed these musicians' fingers flew on the fingerboard, they dubbed the instrument 'ukulele' or jumping flea. With the support of musical monarchs King Kalaukaua and Queen Lilioukalani, this tiny cross between a guitar and a banjo with its sweet sound and ease of mastering was soon adopted as the National Instrument of Hawaii. Later it spread to the United States and eventually to the world. Today the Ukulele is enjoying a renewed popularity with Uke Festivals held in many states and countries" "Warren Buffett: Yes, in between counting $ & making pronouncements on the economy, billionaire Buffett really does play the uke. At least he wouldn't have any problem buying as many as he wants." Now that's rich! |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 18 Sep 11 - 06:10 PM Kipling was racist; Gunga Din is predicated on that very fact. Best be aware of these things... Turned out nice again, hasn't it? |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 18 Sep 11 - 06:22 PM I can't recall saying the songs were innocent. They were very knowing. I just can't see racial stereotyping. I think it was called Mr Wu, because Mr Wu rhymes with What shall I do? You're just rationalising your dislike. I think your earlier answer confirms my suspicions that the supposed wit of B&C&A is strictly for insecure clever dicks. who wish to assert the superiority of middle class mirthless humour. A merry jape. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Fred Maslan Date: 18 Sep 11 - 06:34 PM I am an American who stumbled upon George Formby on Utube. Once you see him you can't forget him. I think he was the model for Wallace of Wallace and Grommit. Family legend has my Father in a ukelele combo in college in the 1920s |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 18 Sep 11 - 06:50 PM I don't dislike George Formby, neither do I dislike Kipling; I can contextualise their racism within the culture of their times but I'm not about to excuse it, much less pretend it something else other than what it was, or that a) that mentality exists today b) it is rancid and has no place in the multi-cultural England I know and love. Of course both Kipling and Formby (died a few months before I was born) are probably gyrating in their graves at the way things turned out, but Gungadin and Mr Wu are both crappy creations of an xenophobic imperialist mindset which the optimist in me believes will vanish one day. Middle class? Next you'll be holding up Carry On films and (certain) ITV sit-coms as paragons of proletarian enlightenment and racial harmony... |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Smokey. Date: 18 Sep 11 - 07:17 PM Formby certainly wasn't a racist, and he wasn't responsible for your interpretation of his song, 50 years later. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 18 Sep 11 - 07:51 PM Well there lies the difference. If Formby were racist, I should dislike him and his work. But he's not. Never liked Kipling. A good story teller, a decent versifier. But the forced matiness - and surely no one EVER spoke like that. Its a bit like maugham's liza of Lambeth - you get the impression these writers think they have learned about ordinary people and their modes of speech by watching comedians on the music hall. Carry on Films....variable quality. I disliked them at the time they were released thought they were very uncool.. Nowadays i appreciate the unique talents of the company of players. After a lifetime a performer myself, I can appreciate people who know their craft. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Smokey. Date: 18 Sep 11 - 08:18 PM "Never liked Kipling" I got thrown off a bus for it once. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,josepp Date: 18 Sep 11 - 09:18 PM The sources I've checked say that "ukulele" is Hawaiian for "The gift that came here." |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: irishenglish Date: 18 Sep 11 - 10:10 PM George Formby and a bunch of other uke greats are mentioned in Chris Leslie's song Ukulele Central on the Festival Bell album. Going back to the original poster, you should check this out for your study. As Chris has said, its a potted history of the ukulele. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: MGM·Lion Date: 19 Sep 11 - 12:16 AM Sorry, Sean: think you up the creek re B&C&A ~~ of my performance of which btw you have spoken kindly. I believe you over-interpret it, and am reminded of Freud's warning that sometimes a cigar is simply a cigar. ~M~ |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Gurney Date: 19 Sep 11 - 03:28 AM I think some of the posts prove my point about not being able to sing some of the songs without being accused of being racist. :-) By the way, as well as being an air-raid warden, 'Mr. Wu' was also in the RAF during the war. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 19 Sep 11 - 04:26 AM Racism is endemic in human culture; indeeed, xenophobia seems one humanity's defining attributes / failings. It is something we all must be very aware of, even in hindsight. Mr Wu is iconic to the Very English cause of seeing Johnny Foreigner as worthy but exotic; his ethnicity reduced to a comededic cliche - Gungadin likewise, though here his cause is one of bypassing the realities of his ethnicity to wallowing in a very mawkish individualism. Kipling's imperialist paternalism is just as patronising in The Land, in which he justifies the inner-apartheid of English social class in terms of its historical contuity. I do The Land as my party-piece, but I'm fully aware of which side of the Great Divide my natural born loyalties lie - I can also applaud a cracking performance of Gungadin, but I'm always aware of which bits the audiences are laughing at. * MtheGM - I should have insterted an emoticon on that bit about B&C&A, although in several performances I've witnessed (& given) the implication of the butter being used an anal lubricant for some very rough fisting from his jolly old cook is more than implicit. Indeed I was once asked if the song was Gay. And why not, eh? |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: MGM·Lion Date: 19 Sep 11 - 04:52 AM Drift alert ~~ I have often wondered, & mentioned in their reader feedback sites etc, why some papers will always print two-word proper nouns in one word, e.g. Mansionhouse, Trinityhall ... Guardian particularly prone to it. Sweeney: Kipling's great if hackneyed poem, is called Gunga Din. Please get it right. Remember the watchword Accuracy matters |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 19 Sep 11 - 05:30 AM What? Even on Mudcat? Hell, if we started pulling each other up for grammar & spelling here we'd be on forever. And is not my spelling of Gungadin by way of the innocent mondegreenal folk-process so beloved of the educated classes in their wonky assessment of the lack of any true creativity of the lower orders but that which is unwitting? In such terms Folk exists by way of cultural condecension and patrogate. So, patronise me, MtheGM, you know I love it! |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 19 Sep 11 - 06:07 AM 'Racism is endemic in human culture; indeeed, xenophobia seems one humanity's defining attributes / failings.' Well if we've all got it - why mention it. Its a bit like saying that man's got a liver - what a bastard! |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: tonyteach1 Date: 19 Sep 11 - 06:10 AM How does a thread about a respected dead comic and musician get highjacked by someone with a left wing platform shouting the odds There are other places to do that |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 19 Sep 11 - 07:52 AM Lots of bad things are innate to the human condition, BAW - the process of civilisation is to overcome them both collectively & individually. Part of that is to see people as unique individuals and not in terms of any superficial racial stereotyping. get highjacked by someone with a left wing platform shouting the odds I'm not hijacking; I'm not left-wing; and I'm not shouting the odds. I'm one individual human being simply excercising my right to free speech on a very serious matter with other individual human beings by way of something called a discussion. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 19 Sep 11 - 08:35 AM 'Lots of bad things are innate to the human condition, BAW - the process of civilisation is to overcome them both collectively & individually.' A bit like original sin then, the thing is about the Jesuits though - - that streak of mean nastiness and finger pointing is such a dereliction of the injunction to judge not less ye be judged - well you can't really take them seriously, can you? |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: melodeonboy Date: 19 Sep 11 - 08:36 AM "What's a Brit?" I think he meant "Briton"! |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 19 Sep 11 - 09:35 AM A bit like original sin then No - not in least bit like original sin; original sin is fecked up theological crap concerning impulses which are, in reality, rather quite fun - unlike Xenophobia, which, like other phobias, are always a pain. I'm not advocating 'naturalness' here, or passivity to base impulses which compromise our very humanity, which to succeed must be a) individualistic and b) all embracing. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 19 Sep 11 - 10:03 AM George Formby - legendary proto punk rock icon as important to the likes of me as the MC5 and the the Troggs..... |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: mayomick Date: 19 Sep 11 - 10:50 AM Thanks Suegorgeous , I'm definitely going to use that one when I get the chance. "Yes , of course you are Napoleon Bonaparte . And my aunt plays ukelele in a George Formby ensemble." |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Max Johnson Date: 19 Sep 11 - 11:04 AM The Beehive in Bradford had a free jukebox when I was a regular there a few years ago, and one of the most popular plays was 'Leaning On The Lampost'. That in a pub where the most popular play was probably Gillian Welsh's 'Elvis Presley Blues'. Obviously, we played George Formby because we needed a bit of cheering up. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: olddude Date: 19 Sep 11 - 11:13 AM Thanks to Will Fly I now got to hear him ... wonderful |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 19 Sep 11 - 01:05 PM .. and don't forget Herman's Hermits, at the pinnacle of their 'British Invasion' fame, startled a generation of screaming teenage yank girls with the delights of George Formby songs via their electric 'beat group' cover versions... for instance.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-E2DmzvmPM |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 19 Sep 11 - 01:27 PM I'm bewildered by this business of racism - perhaps I'm too old to understand. Is enjoying George Formby a 'base impulse'? The X factor - I could understand...... |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Smokey. Date: 19 Sep 11 - 05:10 PM I think perhaps cultural stereotypes are being unnecessarily interpreted as racial stereotypes. It seems to be a popular sport these days, armchair antiismism. There's quite enough real racism in the world without inventing more. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Thomas Stern Date: 19 Sep 11 - 07:46 PM to repeat my question which seems to have been submerged in the racism discussion..... Does anyone know why the 1937 film FEATHER YOUR NEST has never been available on an authorized video (neither VHS nor DVD) ??? All other extant films are available on DVD. Thanks. Best wishes, Thomas. GEORGE FORMBY FILMS ------------------------------------------------------------- MANCUNIAN FILMS (John Blakeley) 1934 BOOTS! BOOTS! John Willie 1935 OFF THE DOLE John Willie ATP/EALING STUDIOS Basil Dean, head of Associated Talking Pictures, (later to become Ealing Studios) 1935 No Limit George Shuttleworth 1937 Keep Fit George Green 1937 Feather Your Nest Willie Piper 1938 I See Ice George Bright 1938 George Takes the Air (It's In The Air) George Brown 1939 Trouble Brewing George Gullip 1939 Come on George! George 1940 Keep Your Seats, Please George Withers 1940 To Hell with Hitler (LET GEORGE DO IT) George Hepplewhite 1940 Spare a Copper George 1941 Turned Out Nice Again George Pearson COLUMBIA PICTURES 1941 South American George George Butters 1942 Much Too Shy George Andy 1943 Get Cracking George Singleton 1944 He Snoops to Conquer George Gribble 1944 Bell-Bottom George George Blake 1945 I Didn't Do It George Trotter 1946 George in Civvy Street George Harper |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,oh aye! Date: 19 Sep 11 - 08:18 PM Did he live in Mere? I never knew that - just up the road, bedad. I remember watching his HUGE funeral on the BBC News, largely because my little brother nearly choked on a boiled sweet at the same time. Him being held upside down [me brother, not the late George] while my father thumped his back and me hiding behind the settee with my fingers in my ears because I thought he was going to die... it fixes things like that in your memory. Like beating children at every stopping point so they'd remember the 'bounds' of the parish, and oh yes, they did - my great great grandfather was regularly wallopped. If I had a quid for every time someone says "Turned out nice, hasn't it?" I'd be off on some beach under a hotter sun than we've seen in the middle of Wales all bloody year. Oh, hell - they'll be asking what a quid is next... George Formby used to make me laugh out loud on a wet Sunday afternoon. Yes, we Brits still remember George Formby. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: melodeonboy Date: 20 Sep 11 - 05:20 AM "...he was making unsophisticated films for an unsophisticated audience." Indeed, Max. But essentially no less sophisticated (apart from the clever use of technology that modern productions can employ!) than the films and music videos today's "stars" turn out! :) |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Rob Naylor Date: 20 Sep 11 - 05:44 AM Well, he's certainly remembered in the world of Indie music, viz the lyrics from British Sea Power's song "Lately": So which way Do I go to get out of here Avoiding land mines, and all the other stuff round here Replacing Hercules with the heroic sounds of Formby .... |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 20 Sep 11 - 06:36 AM he was making unsophisticated films for an unsophisticated audience I think the whole unsophisticated bit was a very necessary put on; a mask of innocence that was all part of a very willing suspension by way of a deeper collective catharsis. However low the budgets might have been, the craft was knowing and ultimately empowering with respect of a nation's morale at a time when such entertainment was experienced as part of large audiences & communities. Difficult to imagine that now, watching Bell Bottom George on our very private TV set some 67 years on from the event, even though one might still visit several of the locations used in the film (such as the old ferry ramp on the Jubilee Quay, which also featured in Fleetwood's other film, the psychological thriller Frozen made in 2005). These days that very unsophistication is part of the appeal - an escape (perhaps) into simpler times, for even though the scale of global carnage was a good deal higher than it is now, domestic strife (maybe) wasn't so much of an issue as it is now... |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Max Johnson Date: 20 Sep 11 - 07:32 AM But essentially no less sophisticated (apart from the clever use of technology that modern productions can employ!) than the films and music videos today's "stars" turn out! :) Indeed, melodeonboy, I had the exact same thought. In fact, without wanting to sound curmudgeonly, if we consider the social and cultural environment of his and Gracie's target audience 75 years ago, they were a great deal more sophisticated in that they never attempted to talk down to that audience. Always looked them straight in the eye, as it were. That's why it worked. I don't think he could be described as a great actor though. He makes Will Hay look like Richard Burton. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 20 Sep 11 - 07:40 AM I like 'Me Auntie Maggie's Home-made Remedy' best. Adore his songs. the words are hilarious. It's said Queen Mary (widow of George V) loved the window-cleaner song! It's true that he sang at a time when we all needed cheering up. To my mind, he epitomised the 'Dunkirk Spirit' of making the best of things, and smiling through difficulties, a great British characteristic. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Bert Date: 20 Sep 11 - 07:52 AM Yup! I remember him. I even sang "Why don't women like me?" on Mudcat Radio one time. As for his musical ability HE was the one who confessed on TV that he couldn't play the Banjo and told how he brought a different instrument on stage for different songs. I don't see that it matters, he was still great. And for what it is worth I remember seeing Johnny Cash on TV one time when his guitar was out of tune and he gave it to someone else to tune. As for racist, there is a world of difference between racism, stereotyping and just plain teasing people because they are different. The latter was de rigeur in London when I was growing up. If you were foreign you were a wog, If you were from Scotland you were Jock, Wales you were Taffy. If you were from the country you were a swede gnawer or carrot cruncher and if you came from South of The River you needed a passport. One didn't mind being named from ones place of origin, whether you were a Geordie or a Cockney. It was all in good fun. Good Lord, people will be complaining when we sing Cosher Bailey next. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: MGM·Lion Date: 20 Sep 11 - 08:13 AM Max ~~ IMO Will Hay could knock 700 spots off Richard Burton as an actor any day of the week. ~M~ |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 20 Sep 11 - 08:27 AM I went to lecture by the Lancashire Dialect Society, s few years ago at Fylde FF. Formby was alluded to as an embodiment of a character who has appeared in Lancashire folk tales from as long ago as the 17th century. Namely the apparently naive fool - who is not such a fool as we are led to believe by the story teller. The humour is very knowing. The deep cultural roots of the role Formby played - (almost certainly without crerebrating on the matter) - informs his performance at a very deep level, and that's maybe why it worked so well, for so many people. Not everyone is required to be a fan though. Was it Eric Morecambe who said - George had a way with a song, but when not singing he was about as funny as a cry for help. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 20 Sep 11 - 09:20 AM Hmmmm - Formby as Jack-archetype, eh? It extends a lot further than Lancashire; in fact, I'd argue that there are few instances of it unique to the county as far as that particular character goes. Jack (call him what you will) is a good deal richer than Formby, who is the embodyment of a more mawkish sort of idiocy which finds it apotheosis in the irksome antics of Norman Wisdom. Jack is all cunning; his tales display growth, wisdom and surreal twists of heroic outsider logic which are entirely absent from a George Formby narrative. For sure, Formby invariably gets the girl (as does Norman) but the acceptance of this by the audience is part of the aforementioned suspension. Can that really happen in the real world? No. Of course it can't. This is pure escapism. Unlike the Jack-folktales, of course, where by his wit, cunning and knowing charm, Jack gets the girl by means which are entirely (and logically) convincing, no matter how far fetched the devices employed (magic harps, whistles, harps, quilts, ogres, talking fish, and (my favourite!) an old woman who has been stuck to a tree by nose for over 100 years). George has his trusty uke, of course, which has the ability to enchant in a very different way; to astonish by a skill which indicates there must be something more to his blustering buffoonery, but what this is we are are never told - only in vague metaphor. Perhaps the clues are in the song-lyrics which consist of smut and knob-gags in which the commonplace is transfigured into a erotic paradise however so deceptive that paradise might be... |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Emberto Uco Date: 20 Sep 11 - 10:10 AM do what..??? crikey it's amazing what some folks can get up to and do with a bit of college edumecation.. !!!??? and here's us thinking he was just a daft bugger singing silly saucy novelty songs for a living.... |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Alan Day Date: 20 Sep 11 - 01:45 PM Thanks for a lot of memories.I too remember George at the Isle of Man TT races, did he stop for a kiss before going past the whole field to win. His Wife kept him on a tight chain, or was his eye for the women part of the act? Gracie Fields also used the giggle to great effect. Al |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Max Johnson Date: 25 Sep 11 - 10:15 AM I just read that the artist Lucian Freud was an extra in 'Much Too Shy'. Now that's sophisticated. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 27 Oct 11 - 03:48 PM A real treat for George Formby fans: Frank Skinner on George Formby - BBC4 9.00 & 12.30 midnight |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: BTNG Date: 27 Oct 11 - 04:05 PM this is really great news, Suibhne...you might be interested to know that George Formby's films, No Limit, Feather Your Nest, Keep Fit and it's in the Air are available to view on line or download from the Internet Archive. Loook under Feature Films, alphabetical order |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: Bert Date: 27 Oct 11 - 05:58 PM To say Our George was Unsophisticated is completely untrue. He was extremely "Worldly-wise" as his lyrics* show and his delivery and stage presence were close to perfect. His ability could put a song across and capture his audience would put most modern singers to shame. *with one eye and one arm gone west, she ran like the devil and she grabbed the rest. They don't write them like that nowadays. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Patsy Date: 28 Oct 11 - 05:22 AM Frank Skinner on George Formby was for me the best program documenting his life that I've seen for a long time renewing my interest in the star. It was surprising how many songs I could recall and sing along to considering it was not something my generation of teenagers would admit to knowing or liking in the 60s/70s. So his songs must have had an impact on me in a similar way that the Beatles did. In fact George Formby is more of a working class hero than John Lennon of that time. |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 28 Oct 11 - 06:17 AM Working class?? Perhaps not. But no matter, the programme was a fascinating window presented with genuine respect by someone who genuinely loves the subject - with some quite thrilling uke to boot! I didn't realise there were THREE Beryldenes on the Fylde. We regularly doff our caps as we pass Gathallen at Singleton, but we'll be keeping our eyes peeled for Cintra next time were in Lytham St. Annes.. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/3289200/Inside-story-Beryldene.html Any GFS members here?? |
Subject: RE: Do Brits remember George Formby? From: C Stuart Cook Date: 28 Oct 11 - 08:00 AM Apart from the fact that he's the only person in living memory to have won a race at the TT's and won the Grand National he also provides the musical interlude for a key scene in the recent release of "Tinker , Tailor......". Could they have got that logbook without George's Banjolele strumming away?? |
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