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fingerpickers, and flames!
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Subject: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Rick Fielding Date: 28 Sep 99 - 11:22 AM Wow! My "loss of innocence on the net" continues. I went visiting a certain "Fingerpickers" Website, at the invitation of a mudcatter. Lots of people asking questions about technique, equipment, players etc. Some questions were really well thought out, others pretty simplistic, and others just designed to get a dialogue going. Holy Cow! I couldn't believe the rudeness coming from some of those unwilling to cut a little slack to newbies (and the head poohbah was the rudest of all) I'm told the same "in your face attitude" can be found in quite a few discussion groups on the net. Think I'll stick to Mudcat. Folkies really ARE different. I can get into fights in real life, don't need to do it in my "leisure time". Rick |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: JedMarum Date: 28 Sep 99 - 11:49 AM I am still a fairly newbie to Mudcat, and already agree with your comments, Rick. This forum is fun, open, friendly and informtive! |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: JedMarum Date: 28 Sep 99 - 11:50 AM ... even to those of us who can't spell worth sh*t! |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Jack (Who is called Jack) Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:01 PM I think what you ran into was something common amongst the 'fingerpicking class'. There's a culture of competitiveness that some of them take very seriously, and it breeds a 'pecking order mentality'. Depending on the who you come in contact with, that pecking order is based on one of two things. Technical prowess (How fast you are) or authenticity (how acurately you imitate another master). Its the musical equivalent of Golds Gym. |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: JedMarum Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:24 PM careful now Jack (Who is called Jack) ... some of us finger pickers don't need to compete for top dog; we KNOW we're the best! |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Jack (Who is called Jack) Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:35 PM Liam, being an active 'catter, you obviously have the requisite judgement and taste to make such an evaluation. |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: catspaw49 Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:52 PM I think that's "Picking Order" and not "Pecking Order." Or at least it should be.......Being a Joe Blow shitty player, I ask you...Who gives a National? But you're right Rick and Liam...the unique thing here is the open, friendly, caring and humorous give and take. It's not limited to music sites either. This has got to be the greatest place on the web. I'm just real glad to be a folkie that found it. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: DougR Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:07 PM Spaw: I agree with you 100%. Mudcatters are the best! Rick, too bad you couldn't sell that guy for what he thinks he's worth. You could buy the best damn guitar in the Universe. DougR |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:48 PM Seeing as how everyone is so friendly, no one will mind if I just throw in my two cents--and that is that here in Mudcat, when you have a question (regardless of how off the wall it is) everybody pitches in til you've got a respectable answer-- In groups where there is ruled by pecking order, the cyber-goonsquad controls what may be said and who may say it--which makes it tough to learn anything, and tough to share anything you've learned--not like here! |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: sophocleese Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:56 PM Only now and again do you get the odd creep in a thread but apart from that these are fine folks, able to stay on topic and all that. |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: catspaw49 Date: 28 Sep 99 - 02:05 PM Hey Ted and soph......Shut the fock up. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Winters Wages Date: 28 Sep 99 - 02:47 PM Rick...I try hide in the threads...but at this point I would like to say you are right...there is a lot of "In your face attitudes" on the net and what some other person pointed out..the competitivenes (please pardon my spelling..Im only a humble civil servant (I don't even want to go to that thread BG) is so strong. I see it in a lot of events I have been to and bands I have played in. With the people I put up with in my job...I come to the Mudcat to meet real people...I have never met a group of people so nice as here on the cat...Despite some of the flames that have gone on..I think they have been handled very nicely If you really look at it, in my point of view, no matter how long we have been playing music. If we are learning anything and growing...it makes us all newbies...always learning something. When I need a dose of kindness..I come to the Cat. I have become so cynical in my job...you begin to wonder about people. I am so bad..here on my job I have a nickname.."Callaghan" as in "Dirty Harry" and thats no joke. I play music to hide from it all...It's great No one would believe what I do if they saw me...Well...errr except El Swano..at least he gets to see some good in his job. OK Im off my box...my 10-7m is over..back to work...W. Wages |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Easy Rider Date: 28 Sep 99 - 03:09 PM THAT'S RIGHT! The Mudcatters are a really nice, open, friendly, helpful bunch of people. I'm a fingerpicker and Blues player, but I don't think I am such a snob as those people. I'm always glad to read the Mudcat threads and not afraid of being flamed here. Something about the anonymity of the Web, some people think they can let go of all the restraints of common courtesy and just run amok. Too Bad, EZR
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 28 Sep 99 - 04:16 PM Spaw, I am sorry, but that wasn't enough to drive me off--It wasn't anywhere near vicious enough, and not really condescending at all--and you didn't tell me how great a musician you are, or that my guitar is a piece of cheap plywood junk-- |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: MMario Date: 28 Sep 99 - 04:43 PM Rick - I will say that I have browsed through a number of forums and newsgroups. I find that the MudCat is the most civil of them all. AND the only one that has a Tavern as well as information... |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Rick Fielding Date: 28 Sep 99 - 05:08 PM The other thing I noticed from the (competitive) Fingerpickers site (how right you are Jack) was that the comments are all in the form of TV political style sound bites. I guess this can lead to snarky short responses, and snarkier short re-responses. I don't know how many times on Mudcat I've started to say something that might be inflammatory, gotten a couple of paragraphs into it, and realised I'd kind of worked out my hostility, by just writing it out. I'd start thinking about the other person's point of view and how maybe it wasn't that bad after all. Back to the beginning of my post, and remove "how stupid can you be...." and change it to "You know, I'm not sure I agree with......." Hard to do that when you're only writing two sentences. Rick |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: katlaughing Date: 28 Sep 99 - 05:15 PM Well...'Spaw, it might've worked if only you'd used the correct spelling, i.e. "Fawk"!**BG** kattheirrationalextremistwhogeneralises aka as Kattiewg |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: MAG (inactive) Date: 28 Sep 99 - 05:52 PM Attitude isn't limited to that group of pickers; I found this site and one on children's music through my storytell group; the children's music people had an unbelievable attitude. and of course they all knew more about the subject than someone who has been involved in children's music for 30 years. MA |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: catspaw49 Date: 28 Sep 99 - 07:03 PM Okay Ted then........ "Lookit yuh ballzup fockin douchebag....Fieldings the fockin picker and your piece of fockin shit guitar has all the fockin resonance of an rotten egplant. So take your bullshit and your pissant fockin brain, kiss my ass and get the fock outta' here." ......and I hope you know I don't mean a word of it! The 'Cat as I said before, is a great place...trust me I know. So Katmyluv....a bit wired tonite are we? Come sit with me in the garden and purr a bit .... it's almost dark and the faeries will soon be out and we can prepare for the 'morrow. Now that's an "offer" you can't refuse. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 29 Sep 99 - 01:36 AM Spaw-- Somehow, I guessed as much-- |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: bseed(charleskratz) Date: 29 Sep 99 - 02:13 AM |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Rick Fielding Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:55 AM Seed, I can see why you were speechless! Rick |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Winters Wages Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:07 PM Seed! Put down that pint.....It's too early |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:31 PM I was going to just put it down to old age, being a banjo picker, or hoisting one too many at the "Starry Plough." I think its more than that.........I fear that seed has offed one too many of his turnip/broccoli/bamboo concoctions with a light Limberger sauce and is now incapable of typing due to gaseous diffusion and breath that has caused his monitor to meltdown and implode. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Rick Fielding Date: 29 Sep 99 - 02:56 PM Seed, are you OK? I'm trying out some of these sites that are supposed to be so unlike Mudcat. My friends Dave and John do a "stock trading" chat thing, and they say it's very nasty. Rick |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Marion Date: 29 Sep 99 - 03:58 PM I once posted a question on a classical music forum (a Beethoven forum, actually) and people were mean to me except for one woman who sent me a very nice email and added in a postscript that she didn't want to post her reply on the forum because then they would be mean to her too. I asked the same question at the Mudcat, and nobody answered (which I didn't take hardly, since it was a classical music question) but nobody set me straight on what kind of questions were allowed, so: Mudcat 1, Beethoven snobs 0 in my book. Marion |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: katlaughing Date: 29 Sep 99 - 04:06 PM Marion, what was the question?
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: DonMeixner Date: 29 Sep 99 - 04:25 PM Jazuss Pat! You gotta balance the pharmaceuticals. I knoe that anyeurism thing was tough an you, hard enough on us, but you gotta calm down or you'll blow a real hole in something they can't plug up. As far as the "Kind and Gracious 'Cat" is concerned we do tend be a litlle down home freindly and welcoming in here. I blame it on a different batch from a different pharmacey we had perscriptions to a few years back. Except for Katey who probably brings food to the picnic just for the ants. She probably even feeds possums and other worthless rodents. Don
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: MMario Date: 29 Sep 99 - 04:39 PM I would suspect Marion's question was the one about any words extent to "Moonlight Sonata". In this case, I think the reason for no answer is that no one knew any. refreshing that thread on the off chance someone does. |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Marion Date: 29 Sep 99 - 05:03 PM Thanks MMario! Mudcatters 2; Beethoven snobs 0. Marion |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Rick Fielding Date: 29 Sep 99 - 05:10 PM Hi Marion, When you ask a question on Mudcat and don't get a response, keep trying. Sometimes the people who know the answer are asleep, in Australia or working on their fourth pint at the Mudcat Cafe. There are a number of folks here well versed in classical music. I wouldn't mind a shot at it. What's the question? Rick |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Marion Date: 29 Sep 99 - 05:15 PM Rick, here's a link attempt: Thanks for asking, Marion |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Michael K. Date: 29 Sep 99 - 05:25 PM I was thinking (oops), that as a victim of some recent flaming on ''another forum'' which shall remain nameless (due to posting comments about my aversion to muting), it would be interesting, perhaps entertaining (for very few), (and definitely self indulgent) to create the ultimate and totally irreverant, sarcastic acoustic forum with a name something like ''Natural Born Guitar Killers'' or ''Two Old Farts - With Guitars.'' The object would be to have myself and another player (who can could be as opinionated as they want - any nominations for a co-host? ) flame everybody and everything we don't happen to agree with (sheer ignorance is bliss???)...while expounding on our own extremely narrow minded opinions of everything to do with acoustic guitars and guitar players, as the gospel truth according to US. Perhaps we could even carry it over to a TV show and have PBS pick it up...(sort of like ''Two Fat Ladies" but with a real rustic decor.) First show could feature us opening the show (with real expense vintage D-45s - on loan of course) while demonstrating a total and complete ineptitude of the instrument. (That'd get the elitists seething toute suite!) We could take a Rick Fielding arrangement of something; get totally f--ked up on it within the first 8 bars; then have Rick come out as a guest and play it for us - 5 different ways till he finds the one HE likes; then cut to a commerical (say for Alaska Piks - ''they retain 100% of your grip, while you are gouging out the eyeballs of a host from a competing forum - and afterall you gots ta be BLIND to really play and interpret the blues and Alaska Piks can help''); then back to the show where we destroy the first 8 bars of a Chet arrangement and then have Chet come and play it for us, all the while compaining that he doesn't understand why he writes stuff that he can't even play; with the signoff tune on the show performed by moi, perhaps ''Amazing Grace" with the strings muted so tightly hardly any sound comes out - just enough of the melody that you think it might be Amazing Grace - but you have another drink to be sure....and of course to those of you at home watching the show - the more you drink the better we will sound! Am I onto something? ...or should I just start cutting the Prozacs in half? (grin) |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Michael K. Date: 29 Sep 99 - 05:44 PM Just thought of a better ending for the ''show''. We have Jimmy Dean come out and play ''Amazing Grace'' (slide guitar style) using one of his famous pork sausages as the slide.) (I know. I know. Get a life Michael.) |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: lamarca Date: 29 Sep 99 - 05:51 PM Michael, "Reality TV" can be more absurd than even your fevered imagination. NPR's "All Things Considered" reported on a new show premiering in good 'ole Texas called "Cheaters". The premise is that if you think your spouse is cheatin' on you, you call in the show. They tail him/her with a camera, then set up a confrontation ON CAMERA for the general public's amusement. Shudder...I'm glad I don't waste my time watching TV, just gossiping here on Mudcat (and reading books, and making music, and watching birds, and catching crawly things) |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: katlaughing Date: 29 Sep 99 - 06:33 PM Yup, Don, I do feed them possums and other rodents, BUT I draw the line at feeding ants at a picnic, ever since I fell in a nest of them when I was about 4 yrs old!LOL Michael, pretty funny. Lamarca, unbelievable! Are they going to have law enforcement there to make sure no confrontations include pulling out a gun and blowing the offending party away?!! kat |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Jeri Date: 29 Sep 99 - 10:40 PM Michael, I think you have a good idea. Max, are you listening? Now you've got radio working, time to start on TV. |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: WyoWoman Date: 29 Sep 99 - 10:55 PM What I've decided about Mudcat is that this is the way the whole world would look if we had actually won the Revolution. You know, back when we were storming all them barricades in our youth. We changed some things, but if what we were actually shooting for had come to pass, it might all look a lot like Mudcat. Irreverant, deeply spiritual, off-the-wall, profoundly rational, easy-going, intense and passionate, joyous, pensive, funny as hell. At least *I* envisioned a world that worked without prissiness, with liberty and license and loads of good music for all... WyoWoman (whodoesn'tlooklikeaformerEarthMotherpoliticalactivistbutactuallyis) |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: DonMeixner Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:01 PM Wyo, Was that Libertine Licentiousness for all.? Donwholookslikeamiddleagedcollegeproffessorbutisactuallynotall |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: DougR Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:05 PM Marion: I should know the answer to your question and I have been sitting here trying ot conjure up the melody but it doesn't come to me. There was a popular song back in the 1940s that comes to mind because the melody was a classical one. It was "Full Moon And Empty Arms." I think that may have been Chopin, though. Kat probably would know. What about it Kat? DougR |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: katlaughing Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:35 PM I'll have to ask my dad on that one DougeR. Chopin is one of my very least favs of all classical composers. I did find a site with all kinds of songs about the moon, but no classical except for an instrumental of Moonlight Sonata by Depeche Mode. I will go look for the song you mentioned, though. katwholookslikeanEarthMotherbutwastooyoungtodomuchwhenitwasenvoguebutdoingmybesttomakeupforthat! |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Sep 99 - 12:17 AM The only help I could be Marion is suggest you read the following and then hum it.....uh,strike hum.....well, let's say just sing Moonlight Sonata for him la,la,la.....
There once was a young man from Sparta I've noticed that as we get older, gas becomes somewhat comforting. My wife's grandfather once remarked to a friend of ours, after eating beans, "I dunno',I kinda' like the gas." I'm 50 and this gent of yours is 100.......If his gas is double mine, don't light a match. Our friend Seed back up the thread appears to have destroyed his computer from just such an event, and he's only 67!!!! Seriously Marion, there are people at the 'Cat who do KNOW JACK SHIT.....unfortunately, it ain't none of us on this thread!!!! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Sep 99 - 12:28 AM Oops....Actually Katmyluv DOES KNOW JILL SHIT...if that's any help! LMAO***BFG***
Spaw wholooksliketheaging60'sradicalhewas |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: WyoWoman Date: 30 Sep 99 - 12:41 AM Don, Yes. WW (and was that lookslike,etc.,butisnotTALL???) |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Helen Date: 30 Sep 99 - 02:34 AM MichaelK, I think what you've got there is The Red Green Show Does Fingerpickin'. I can see it already, with Red standing there insulting his nephew and doing the most amazingly silly things with guitars instead of power tools. Maybe we need to contact the Red Green guys with this idea. But, one question, what does the duct tape get used for? Helen |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Den Date: 30 Sep 99 - 08:49 AM What kind of twisted bastard would you be to get your jollies out of slaggin' people all day. The reason IMHO that this site works is because we love folk and trad music and this music is all about sharing and passing the torch so to speak. Its the way people learn about traditions and have learned about the music for centuries. There have been discussions on this site that have been at times heated and in extreme cases have led to the departure of some members. But in the long run I think that we all go to bed not being mad at each other. For the elitists I have a story. When I went to design school one of our instructors, a man by the name of Mircho Jakabow, God rest him, invariably related this scenario to new students that went something like this: your working on a tight deadline, its 3:00 am and you have'nt had sleep in two days and you can't get this layout to work. You order a pizza cause your starving and need to stay awake. The pizza guy comes in and looks at what your doing and says what if you moved that over there and made this headline bigger. Would you try his suggestion or would you dismiss him as an amateur? For what its worth Den. |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Michael K. Date: 30 Sep 99 - 12:48 PM You obviously had a sense-of-humour and charisma bypass at birth, Den. |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: katlaughing Date: 30 Sep 99 - 01:09 PM Whoa! That was low, M.K.! Den has shown all kinds of humour and defintely some great charisma since he joined th Mudcat! |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Date: 30 Sep 99 - 02:45 PM Wyo, NOTATALL, Donwhocanspellbutcan'ttype |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Easy Rider Date: 30 Sep 99 - 02:52 PM Michael K: Not half the Prozac, DOUBLE the Prozac. EZR |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Michael K. Date: 30 Sep 99 - 03:52 PM To katlaughing: "Whoa! That was low, M.K.! Den has shown all kinds of humour and defintely some great charisma since he joined the Mudcat." ------------------------------------------------------ Maybe so, but if you read his response to my postings, what you described is clearly NOT evident, hence my reply to him. MK |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Den Date: 30 Sep 99 - 08:29 PM What postings would you be talking about Michael? I don't recall responding to any of your postings. Maybe you could explain. If your talking about my posting above I was actually responding to Ricks posting about people who cut down others in other music sites. What I wrote had absolutely nothing to do with you. Den |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Michael K. Date: 30 Sep 99 - 10:16 PM My sincereist apologies Den. Because of the proximity of your post to mine (the one about the fanatasy guitar show) and the way your first couple of sentences started out, I honestly thought you were responding to me. An honest mistake. I'm another step closer to humility. |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Rick Fielding Date: 01 Oct 99 - 01:59 AM How right you are Den. I'm not sure if the ones who DO the insulting are worse than the ones who come back time and time again to BE insulted. T'is a weird world at times my friend. Interesting little story about the pizza guy. Me? I'd try it in a heartbeat. OK, here's a similar one that happened to me a few years ago. I was setting up to play a club gig, and when I turned the P.A. on, Nuthin! Oops, blown a fuse, I think. I race out to my car and get one. (always prepared, that's me) Still Nuthin except a tiny bit of static. Now I start to panic. I get another extension cord, still nada. All right I guess the amp is fried I think. I've still got time to rush to the music store and rent another. The owner of the club is giving me funny looks, so I apologise for starting late and rush off to get another amp. I get back fifteen minutes later, hassled and frazzled and plug in...still NO SOUND! I start checking the mikes, the cables, and I'm dumbfounded. This has never happened before. So I decide to play without mikes (and it was pretty noisy) which is disastrous. An hour later a young woman asks me why I'm so pissed off. I tell her and she asks if she can look at the P.A. I was about to tell her I had checked everything and there was no point, but for some reason I said "sure, go ahead". She stepped onto the stage and said "Why haven't you plugged in your SPEAKERS??!! I could have cried with embarrassment!.....So Yeah, I'd listen to the pizza guy! Rick |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: Den Date: 01 Oct 99 - 08:23 AM Apology accepted Michael and as far as humour goes I can make a kat laugh, right Kat! (thanks for knowing). Den |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: katlaughing Date: 01 Oct 99 - 08:36 AM You bet you can, Den! And, yer welcome, dearie.**BG** Just a word of advice to all. When one of us responds to something someone posted, it helps everyone to know to whom you are responding, then this kind of misunderstanding usually won't happen. That's why a lot of us start out a posting with someone's name in the first line or two. All the best. katlaughing |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 01 Oct 99 - 11:40 AM It almost seems like the little exchange above was a set up to show what a nice place MC is--it wasn't of course--but it makes me think that people here value more than just the cool sounds of traditional and folk music--it makes it clear that there is really something to community that sharing music creates-- (I may be able to get away with this passing bit of maudlinity because Spaw isn't up yet!) |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: MMario Date: 01 Oct 99 - 11:54 AM You should NEVER count on 'Spaw being asleep. |
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Subject: RE: fingerpickers, and flames! From: katlaughing Date: 01 Oct 99 - 12:48 PM Even if he is asleep, which is hardly EVER, he still has Cletus, Paw and the rest of them keeping an eye on things, as well as Cleigh O'Possum. So.....be ware!Ahahahaha!:-) And MTed, you are so right about the community and caring. kat |
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