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BS: I voted for Obama, but...

Songwronger 27 Sep 11 - 06:53 PM
kendall 27 Sep 11 - 07:14 PM
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Bobert 12 Nov 11 - 05:09 PM
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Sawzaw 13 Nov 11 - 08:29 AM
GUEST,999 13 Nov 11 - 12:10 PM
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GUEST,999 13 Nov 11 - 01:10 PM
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Little Hawk 14 Nov 11 - 01:05 PM
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Amos 14 Nov 11 - 04:43 PM
Little Hawk 14 Nov 11 - 05:05 PM
GUEST,999 14 Nov 11 - 06:47 PM
Songwronger 14 Nov 11 - 08:28 PM
Bobert 14 Nov 11 - 09:44 PM
Don Firth 14 Nov 11 - 09:48 PM
Songwronger 14 Nov 11 - 10:58 PM
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Songwronger 14 Nov 11 - 11:37 PM
Little Hawk 15 Nov 11 - 12:58 AM
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Little Hawk 15 Nov 11 - 02:10 AM
Stringsinger 15 Nov 11 - 12:49 PM
Don Firth 15 Nov 11 - 03:59 PM
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Songwronger 25 Mar 12 - 11:23 PM
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kendall 26 Mar 12 - 09:22 AM
Wesley S 26 Mar 12 - 09:29 AM
Bill D 26 Mar 12 - 10:38 AM
Greg F. 26 Mar 12 - 10:46 AM
Ebbie 26 Mar 12 - 10:59 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 26 Mar 12 - 02:03 PM
Don Firth 26 Mar 12 - 03:08 PM
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GUEST,Guest from Sanity 26 Mar 12 - 04:08 PM
Bobert 26 Mar 12 - 08:25 PM
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Bobert 26 Mar 12 - 10:49 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 27 Mar 12 - 12:24 AM
Songwronger 27 Aug 12 - 11:42 PM
Amos 28 Aug 12 - 12:17 AM
Henry Krinkle 28 Aug 12 - 05:22 AM
kendall 28 Aug 12 - 08:55 AM
Greg F. 28 Aug 12 - 09:37 AM
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Subject: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 06:53 PM

I don't like his warmongering.

Why the hell is he bombing Yemen? And why did he say he didn't need congressional approval to bomb Libya? I hated Bush's baseless wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and Obama's continued those and begun even more.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: kendall
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 07:14 PM

I agree.

War is like drugs so easy to get into and so hard to get out of.
We have been in the war business for many years.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: kendall
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 07:22 PM

The news tonight featured a business that makes wreaths for the graves of fallen military. A spokeswoman stated that is is so good to live in a country where there are no bombs falling! If I knew who she is I'd educate her.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 07:31 PM

Here's the deal...

War as we know it is obsolete... It has become state-of-the-art... Drones... Hey, I'd much rather see *US* using drones than sending one wave of kids after another up a hill to get killed...

If we have intelligence that folks are out to commit terrorist acts then take them out... Just be darned sure that the intelligence is accurate...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 07:48 PM

Tell the people in Yemen that war is obsolete. Convince them that drones are superior to hand-do-hand fighting.

The war on terrorism is a lie. If Muslim terrorists are such a threat, then how many Jewish synagogues were blown up today in the U.S.? How many this month? This year? It's all a lie, concocted to take away your rights.

And it looks as if Obama is going along with the lie just as willingly as Bush did.

Obama needs a primary challenger, one who's opposed to the wars that are helping to bankrupt America. Dennis Kucinich comes to mind. He's anti-war.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 08:06 PM

Bobert, our military people commit terrorist acts. And they have been doing so for a long time. Are you in favour of "taking them out" too? The Third World people who fight them are called "terrorists" or "insurgents" when they resist foreign occupation of their own lands...whether it be by the USA, Great Britain, Canada or Israel...plus other members of what are, in truth, colonial powers of the western alliance, which is NATO and Israel.

The colonies of that alliance aren't officially called "colonies" anymore, but that's what they are, and it's done to control oil and other vital resources and to enable strategic positioning in regards to competitors in the game of empire such as Russia and China.

****

I have also been utterly opposed to Obama's foreign war policies ever since he was elected. I suspect McCaine would have been as bad or even worse. The only politicians I can think of who really have stood up against those war policies are Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 08:11 PM

Okay, ya'll... Send in the Marines and grunts to get killed... That's the alternative...

But, yeah, if we had better foreign policies then we wouldn't be having this discussion... We need to realize that the largest reason that we have folks wanting to mess *US* up is because of the Israeli/Palestinian situation... Solve it and we turn the corner...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 08:16 PM

BTW, in case ya'll hadn't noticed but if Jesus was president He'd be in the same trick bag as every American president finds himself when it comes down to the Israeli/Palestinian slobber-knocker..

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 08:34 PM

Yup. That's the 900-lb gorilla in the room. The Israeli/Palestinian problem. And then there's the oil.

I think there are huge forces in play steering American policy that no American president can do much about, except at dire peril of losing his own life while in office. I'm not surprised that Obama has done so little to live up to the enormous expectations people had of him...I'm just disappointed. But it was clear even before he got elected that he was going to continue the basic imperial policies in regards to both foreign wars and Israel. He's doing what the military and the corporations want him to do, in my opinion, and that's what they all do once elected. Or they die in office.

John Kennedy died in office. I think he was the last president who dared to oppose the military-industrial complex.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Janie
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 08:52 PM

I voted for Obama also. Given the choices available he was the best candidate for the job. Given the choices that will be available in the next election, I think it likely he will be the best candidate for 2012 also.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Janie
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 08:55 PM

LH, I think if Kennedy had lived long enough to serve out his terms, you would have been sorely disappointed.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 09:04 PM

Obama doesn't HAVE "foreign war policies", other than making 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' judgments about developing situations. Hitler had "foreign war policies"....and to a lesser extent, Bush had "foreign war policies". Obama is juggling 14 balls, and trying to counter asinine criticism at home while he tries to decide whether to drop balls 9 & 12. Gee... why doesn't he just read Mudcat and see that several local experts have it all figgered out!

And you are correct, Kucinich and Ron Paul would have "foreign war policies"...one policy fits all. Slogan: "stay out of everything unless we are directly attacked". Very neat...and wouldn't various forces & countries around the world LOVE to hear that they had at least 4 years of Paul or Kucinich "foreign -non-war policies" to bank on? Like that diplomatic blunder when we 'indicated' to Saddam that we "had no interest" in what happened to Kuwait. KaBOOM!

If you armchair pundits were getting the daily briefings that Obama is, you 'might' see it ain't that easy.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 09:10 PM

Where do you get the notion the US is bombing Yemen? I just checked Al Jazeera and they have not, and do not, carried anything on this. The Yemeni Defense Minister survived the second attack on his life by a suicide bomber, but nothing about the US bombing Yemen.

Please cite your source -- I'm really interested, and I'm not being sarcastic.

As for Obama, I think he'll be the best choice next year -- sigh.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Janie
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 09:30 PM

Well said, Bill D.

As usual.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 09:35 PM

"I voted for Obama, but" it did not count because I'm a Canadian:)


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 09:37 PM

I've looked for a news source on Yemeni bombings. Can't see where the US is involved. I too would like to see a source on this, no offense meant.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 09:46 PM

I shouldn't be left unsaid that Obama has had the strongest push-back from the opposition party since Lincoln...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 10:12 PM

LH says ... "John Kennedy died in office. I think he was the last president who dared to oppose the military-industrial complex."

Hmmmm .... you think so

Kennedy came into office committed to increasing defense spending and upgrading and modernizing America's military, (he feared the "domino theory") .... this commitment led to Vietnam ... His administration sent in 18,000 advisors. It authorized the use of napalm , defoliants, free fire zones, and jet planes.

As janie said .... "you would have been sorely disappointed"

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 10:17 PM

What biLL said...

Kennedy didn't take on the military/industrialists...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 10:20 PM

I should also add .... 'Camelot' was a fairy tale, sadly, much like the election of Obama was.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 10:30 PM

Bobert and Bill: "Kennedy didn't take on the military/industrialists..."

No, he just didn't pander to their agendas. The MIC took him on, and it culminated in Dallas!

Jeez! No wonder folk/bluesers have become irrelevant these days! I think the read their news in fortune cookies!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 10:38 PM

Yahoo search for "Yemen drone bombings"
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AuwXGp5Xu9yrEFJE6sUN6n6bvZx4?p=yemen+drone+bombings&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701

U.S. Is Intensifying a Secret Campaign of Yemen Airstrikes
nytimes.com

Yet another illegal war -- now in Yemen
salon.com

CIA to operate drones over Yemen
washingtonpost.com

Those are just the first three in the stack. The U.S. is building drone factories in the region. Within two years (I think this was in Wired Magazine), drones will be self-determining when it comes to targeting. Swarms of drones will be launched, each set with parameters, and no human decision-making will be involved in the killing. This under Obama, the Nobel Peace Prize Winner.

Do you people really have no knowledge of this? The Obama administration is using Africa as a charnel house experiment for drone warfare.

A yahoo search of "Drones self-aware"
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7kquhoJOKHIAT0ZXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDUCMyNzY2Njc5BF9yAzIEYW8DMARjc3JjcHZpZANMNVJZUzBvRzd2NmFIUG

A future for drones: Automated killing
washingtonpost.com

This Man Is Not an Agent of Self-Aware Killer Drones
wired.com

Coming Soon From the Air Force: Mind-Reading Drones
wired.com

Just the top three in the stack.

Sanitizing warfare doesn't make the perpetrators any less guilty of butchery. Obama is killing en masse. And he's acted illegally in not acquiring the consent of congress.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 10:38 PM

By Jeffrey T. Kuhner

The Washington Times

President Obama has engaged in numerous high crimes and misdemeanors. The Democratic majority in Congress is in peril as Americans reject his agenda. Yet more must be done: Mr. Obama should be impeached.

He is slowly - piece by painful piece - erecting a socialist dictatorship. We are not there - yet. But he is putting America on that dangerous path. He is undermining our constitutional system of checks and balances; subverting democratic procedures and the rule of law; presiding over a corrupt, gangster regime; and assaulting the very pillars of traditional capitalism. Like Venezuela 's leftist strongman, Hugo Chavez, Mr. Obama is bent on imposing a revolution from above - one that is polarizing America along racial, political and ideological lines. Mr. Obama is the most divisive president since Richard Nixon. His policies are Balkanizing the country. It's time for him to go.

He has abused his office and violated his oath to uphold the Constitution. His health care overhaul was rammed through Congress. It was - and remains - opposed by a majority of the people. It could only be passed through bribery and political intimidation. The Louisiana Purchase, the Cornhusker Kickback, the $5 billion Medicaid set-aside for Florida Sen. Bill Nelson - taxpayer money was used as a virtual slush fund to buy swing votes. Moreover, the law is blatantly unconstitutional: The federal government does not have the right to coerce every citizen to purchase a good or service. This is not in the Constitution, and it represents an unprecedented expansion of power.

Yet Obamacare's most pernicious aspect is its federal funding of abortion. Pro-lifers are now compelled to have their tax dollars used to subsidize insurance plans that allow for the murder of unborn children. This is more than state-sanctioned infanticide. It violates the conscience rights of religious citizens. Traditionalists - evangelicals, Catholics, Baptists, Muslims, Orthodox Jews - have been made complicit in an abomination that goes against their deepest religious values. As the law is implemented (as in Pennsylvania ) the consequences of the abortion provisions will become increasingly apparent. The result will be a cultural civil war. Pro-lifers will become deeply alienated from society; among many, a secession of the heart is taking place.

I would add that, he has also granted hundreds of waivers to groups, organizations and companies that supported his canidacy, who claimed hardship if not excluded from Obamacare. dwr

Mr. Obama is waging a frontal assault on property rights. The BP oil spill is a case in point. BP clearly is responsible for the spill and its massive economic and environmental damage to the Gulf. There is a legal process for claims to be adjudicated, but Mr. Obama has behaved more like Mr. Chavez or Russia 's Vladimir Putin: He has bullied BP into setting up a $20 billion compensation fund administered by an Obama appointee. In other words, the assets of a private company are to be raided to serve a political agenda. Billions will be dispensed arbitrarily in compensation to oil-spill victims - much of it to Democratic constituents. This is cronyism and creeping authoritarianism.

Mr. Obama's multicultural socialism seeks to eradicate traditional America . He has created a command-and-control health care system. He has essentially nationalized the big banks, the financial sector, the automakers and the student loan industry. He next wants to pass "cap-and-trade," which would bring industry and manufacturing under the heel of big government. The state is intervening in every aspect of American life - beyond its constitutionally delegated bounds. Under Mr. Obama, the Constitution has become a meaningless scrap of paper.

To provide the shock troops for his socialist takeover, Mr. Obama calls for "comprehensive immigration reform" - granting amnesty to 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens. This would forge a permanent Democratic electoral majority. It would sound the death knell for our national sovereignty. Amnesty rewards lawlessness and criminal behavior; it signifies the surrender of our porous southern border to a massive illegal invasion. It means the death of American nationhood. We will no longer be a country, but the colony of a global socialist empire.

Rather than defending our homeland, Mr. Obama's Justice Department has sued Arizona for its immigration law. He is siding with criminals against his fellow Americans. His actions desecrate his constitutional oath to protect U.S. citizens from enemies foreign and domestic. He is thus encouraging more illegal immigration as Washington refuses to protect our borders. Mr. Obama's decision on this case is treasonous.

As president, he is supposed to respect the rule of law. Instead, his administration has dropped charges of voter intimidation against members of the New Black Panther Party. This was done even though their menacing behavior was caught on tape: men in military garb brandishing clubs and threatening whites at a polling site. A Justice Department lawyer intimately involved in the case, J. Christian Adams, resigned in protest. Mr. Adams says that under Mr. Obama, there is a new policy: Cases involving black defendants and white victims - no matter how much they cry for justice - are not to be prosecuted. This is more than institutionalized racism. It is an abrogation of civil rights laws. The Justice Department's behavior is illegal. It poses a direct threat to the integrity of our democracy and the sanctity of our electoral process.

The gun running of "fast and furious" and continueing attempt to cover up, pass the blame and hide from the responsibility by Obama and Holder is indicitave of Obama's ignoring the Constitution and his lawlessness. It was undoubtedly an effort to create a public outcry for more gun control. In my opinion, his plan also was to cause chaos for the Mexican citizens by letting the guns go into the drug cartels' hands and terrorize the Mexican citizens. Forcing them to flee north across the border. Which would create a need for a refugee program for the fleeing Mexicans. Hence, an urgent need for amnesty for the sudden influx of illegal immigrants. dwr.

Corruption in the administration is rampant. Washington no longer has a government; rather, it has a gangster regime. The Chicago way has become the Washington way. Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel is a political hit man.. He is an amoral, ruthless operator. It was Mr. Emanuel who reached out to Rep. Joe Sestak, Pennsylvania Democrat, offering a high-ranking job in the hopes of persuading Mr. Sestak to pull out of the primary against Sen. Arlen Specter. It was Mr. Emanuel who offered another government position to Andrew Romanoff to do the same in the Colorado Democratic Senate primary. And it was Mr. Emanuel - as the trial of former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich has revealed - who acted as the go-between to try to have Valerie Jarrett parachuted into Mr. Obama's former Senate seat. The only question was: What did Mr. Blagojevich want in exchange?

This is not simply sleazy Chicago machine politics. It is the systematic breaking of the law - bribery, attempt to interfere (and manipulate) elections using taxpayer-funded jobs, influence peddling and abuse of power.

The common misperception on the right is that Mr. Obama is another Jimmy Carter: an incompetent liberal whose presidency is being reduced to rubble under the onslaught of repeated failures. The very opposite, however, is true. He is the most consequential president in our lifetime, transforming America into something our Founding Fathers would find not only unrecognizable, but repugnant. Like all radical revolutionaries, he is consumed by the pursuit of power - attaining it, wielding it and maximizing it. Mr.. Obama's fledgling thug state must be stopped.

It is more crucial now than ever that the leadership in the House instigate a committee to investigate every aspect of Obama's administration, his cabinet and his czars. He will stop at nothing, we the people should stop at nothing and turn over every stone Obama has placed to bury our Constitution. dwr.

If Republicans win back Congress in November, they should - and likely will - launch formal investigations into this criminal, scandal-ridden administration. Rep. Darrell Issa, California Republican and ranking member of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, has promised as much. Mr. Obama has betrayed the American people. Impeachment is the only answer. This usurper must fall.
...................................................................
None of the above is my text.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 10:43 PM

sadly .... some people believe in the Oliver Stone movie .... personally I'm one believes that JFK and the old man screwed around with Chicago gangsters a bit too much ... but, let's leave these theories to previous thread's buried somewhere here in the Madcat.

Fact is .... Vietnam was JFK's baby.

write a folksong about that.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 10:57 PM

Number6: "Fact is .... Vietnam was JFK's baby."

An opinion based in error....matter of FACT, JFK signed an order about 40 days before his trip to Dallas, that in effect said, the the U.S. should NOT be in Vietnam.
Vietnam was a combination of things, that went back even before Eisenhower was president. You might familiarize yourself with the French Undo-China war, and treaties we had with the French, during WWII.
Even though Japan and Germany formally surrendered, the French were still battling in that region...and as a part of that treaty, we 'were' obliged' to help. That being said, the Gulf of Ton-kin incident was complete bullshit, and that was August 2, 1964...almost a year after JFK's trip to Dallas. the escalation of the war was Johnson's baby.
Just to let you know.....
..and the reason it went on so long, was to prolong the drug and arms trade...but that's another story altogether....

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 10:59 PM

Delete the other one. Error in the spell check
........................................................

Number6: "Fact is .... Vietnam was JFK's baby."

An opinion based in error....matter of FACT, JFK signed an order about 40 days before his trip to Dallas, that in effect said, the the U.S. should NOT be in Vietnam.
Vietnam was a combination of things, that went back even before Eisenhower was president. You might familiarize yourself with the French Indo-China war, and treaties we had with the French, during WWII.
Even though Japan and Germany formally surrendered, the French were still battling in that region...and as a part of that treaty, we 'were' obliged' to help. That being said, the Gulf of Ton-kin incident was complete bullshit, and that was August 2, 1964...almost a year after JFK's trip to Dallas. the escalation of the war was Johnson's baby.
Just to let you know.....
..and the reason it went on so long, was to prolong the drug and arms trade...but that's another story altogether....

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 11:12 PM

Thank you, Songwronger. I was aware of drone warfare in Afghanistan, but not Yemen or the eastern region of Africa.

I would suggest that just possibly this president may not need the consent of this congress because the previous president received approval for a 'war on terror'. I don't know if there was a time limit on it.

(I'm not stating that as fact. I live in a country with many of its own problems and don't always keep up with what's happening with our neighbours to the south.)


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 11:18 PM

"By Jeffrey T. Kuhner

The Washington Times

President Obama has engaged in numerous high crimes and misdemeanors. The Democratic majority in Congress is in peril as Americans reject his agenda. Yet more must be done: Mr. Obama should be impeached."

#####################################################

The above article quoted in its entirety in an earlier post is from over a year ago, fwiw and fyi.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 11:39 PM

Janie - (in regards to your post of 27 Sep 11 - 08:52 PM)

Yeah, probably. He didn't, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 11:50 PM

Guest,999: "The above article quoted in its entirety in an earlier post is from over a year ago, fwiw and fyi."

thank you..didn't know that....but it still holds true. I gathered that it was older, when they referred to the elections in November...but I thought it was worth repeating. Didn't know it graced the Mudcat forum, though...Thank you!


GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 01:48 AM

FFS - that article from the NYT is hilarious. It is a satire, isn't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 02:21 AM

Richard Bridge to Nowhere: "FFS - that article from the NYT is hilarious. It is a satire, isn't it?"

Well you MUST have thought it was hilarious!...being as God only knows what you read....Being as it was from the Washington Times, and I'm GfS, not FFS!...but that was posted for your reading comedy, too.
So, turn off the cartoons on your TV and get some sleep, OK?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 02:23 AM

Richard Bridge to Nowhere: "FFS - that article from the NYT is hilarious. It is a satire, isn't it?"

Well you MUST have thought it was hilarious!...being as God only knows what you read....Being as it was from the Washington Times, and I'm GfS, not FFS!...but that was posted for your reading comedy, too.
So, turn off the cartoons on your TV and get some sleep, OK?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 03:38 AM

"Obama will change only what he is allowed to change."
I said that before he was elected, only to be attacked by Bill D, Amos, et al.

Mr Obama is not the Messiah, his last speech on the Palestinian issue should have made that prefectly clear to everyone.

Bill D is quite wrong, if Mr Obama is to serve any purpose regarding "change", he must develope the guts to lead and challenge the system........not allow himself to be led around like a "pig on a stick"....Ake


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 03:41 AM

The future of your country should mean more to him than his future employment prospects!


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: kendall
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 08:00 AM

I'm convinced that if we would simply stay out of the affairs of other countries, stay home and mind our own store they would have no reason to hit us.

A little boy came home with a black eye. When his Father asked how he got it, the boy said, "It all started when he hit me back."


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 08:50 AM

GfS declared .... "Number6: "Fact is .... Vietnam was JFK's baby."

Hmmm

yes, I did say that ..... but where is the post where I did say it.

oh well .... does it really matter?


biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 01:12 PM

"Bill D is quite wrong, ..."

About WHAT? Unlike others here, *I* didn't claim to know what, exactly, the best course is, nor what Obama is "allowed" to do or not do. (I do wonder whose minds they read in determining how Obama makes his 'controlled decisions'.)

*I* merely question the arrogance of those who DO claim to have infallible information and insight as they **interpret** various 'news' stories about drones, the death of JFK, Obama's mindset, and/or the basic policies of the U.S.!

What do I actually think? I think that IF 'they' somehow manage to impeach Obama or get him voted out and any one of this illustrious field of Republicans voted in, you will have controlled and manipulated and self-serving agendas by power-mad special interests.... the like of which will even startle YOU who are unhappy with Obama!....and sadly, you will rationalize and 'spin' it and pretend you didn't 'really' say what you said.....kinda like Mitt Romney.

I do not claim to know how Obama makes his decisions....but I have been following what he has said & done for several years, including his college career and his time as a community organizer in Chicago...and I see goals and honesty that dwarf the shallowness and petty slogans by his detractors and would-be successors.
Are there better choices? Maybe...how do we find them, and how can we be sure they are 'better'? The complexities of today would strain the abilites of the most competent and well-intentioned leader!
I do know that I saw a long interview on Education with Bill Clinton yeaterday, and was again amazed by his knowlege and analysis.... and Obama comes as close to that level of competence as anyone (who is considered as a possible candidate) that I have seen recently. (I can name 6-7 folks who seems to have the skills, but not necessarily the 'charisma' or the desire to TAKE all the abuse that comes with being a Democratic candidate.)

I suggest you (as I mentioned above) arm-chair pundits take a deep breath and honestly review what Obama has accomplished in spite of Republicans being totally obstructionist at every step! It is hard to tell what 'conservatives' DO want...except to defeat Obama and make it easier for corporations and billionaires to gain more control...and maybe overturn the 1st Amendment.

It sure is a lot easier to be nay-sayers and accusers than to come up with positive ideas, hmmm?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: gnu
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 01:41 PM

Himm-himm-himm.

Bee here on g's pewter. When Chuck got home he was in a terrible dither so I decided I'd chat with g and try to sort it out... they are such good boys and I don't like to see them at odds. I am taking a break and having a Bud whilst g prepares lasagna. I detest commoner food but g says the frozen 2.27kg Sobeys brand was on sale for $6 Canuck so it was worth a shot and if I have several Buds it'll be a great scoff.

Now, all this silly talk of Mr. Obama being told what to do must simply stop. I decree it shall be so. I have spoken.

Dismissed. Carry on. Smoke em if you got em.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 01:49 PM

:0)


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 02:03 PM

Bill....Nobody can accuse me of pulling my punches...on any subject, and if I am wrong I will be the first to admit it.

Most of the world was wrong about Obama.....tho' it's not really his fault, what's required now is a break from the domination of the party system....the realisation that no weasel words from no damn Party can alter the fact that the West is on the "going down"side of the Capitalist wheel.
Unless we are prepared to watch society and our young people disintegrate before our eyes, we must jump for our lives.

Kendall is right, we must stop trying to manipulate the rest of the world in our interests....we've done that and must learn that Capitalism brings destruction as well as production.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: gnu
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 02:38 PM

ake... "Capitalism brings destruction as well as production."

Only when greed exceeds compassion and overturns foresight in renewable resource strategies. Killing for profit isn't necessary yet... unless the rich know something. Maybe they do?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 02:42 PM

That is its nature


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 03:20 PM

"Nobody can accuse me of pulling my punches"

No indeed, ake! Perhaps "shooting from the hip"?

I do advocate people stating clearly what they like or believe in, and standing up for it...and, as you say, admitting mistakes. I do not advocate quick, shallow opinions based on hearsay, emotions and guesswork.
I have no access to your mind and HOW you come to conclusions: any more than you & others have to Obama's. Myself... I am pretty slow to make many declarative statements about highly complex people & situations. I can 'see' ALL sides in the Middle-East situation, and see the flaws in all sides. I can imagine things I WISH Obama would say or do...and I can imagine many reasons for him not doing what I imagine (and most of them do NOT involve being manipulated by shadowy $$$ interests).

What is not hard to imagine is what certain wannabe characters would do, given certain powers...and a loaded Supreme Court. They TELL me so! Much like Reagan did in his radio addresses in the late 70s, when he explained how he would dismantle certain parts of that nasty EPA... he did it and he ruined many very important programs.

Obama does a few minor things, like 'beginning' a system of health care designed to help more people and reduce the influence of drug companies and insurance companies...and LO!...he's a **Socialist**, bent on destroying our freedom!

*sheesh!*


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 03:37 PM

THere's a lot of horsepucky flying around about Mr Obama. Given the field provided, I have to say...


FOUR MORE YEARS.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 03:44 PM

Not only did GfS post the Kuhner article on another thread (and God knows how many more besides these two!) but as 999 pointed out, it's over a year old.

The skinny on Jeffery T. Kuhner:
Kuhner was born in Montreal, Canada. After teaching US history from 1998 to 2000 at McGill University in Montreal, Kuhner worked from 2000 through 2003 as an assistant national editor at the Washington Times. After leaving the Washington Times, he worked for the Republican policy group the Ripon Society as communications director and editor of the "Ripon Forum." He was the editor of the US Internet news magazine "Insight on the News" from October 2005 until its closing in May 2008.

####

The Ripon Society was founded December 12, 1962, in Cambridge, Massachusetts at Harvard College. The name is a reference to Ripon, Wisconsin, the birthplace of the Republican Party.

One of the main goals of the Ripon Society is to promote ideas and principles that have contributed to the GOP's past success. These ideas include keeping our nation secure, keeping taxes low, and having a federal government that is smaller, and more accountable to the people.
Kuhner has retired from the Washington Times and is currently hosting a conservative talk radio show.

Considering the nature of conservative talk radio show hosts, I would hardly have expected Kuhner to be glowing with praise for Obama.

(This also was posted on the other thread to give folks an idea of where Kuhner (and GfS) is coming from.)

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: gnu
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 05:10 PM

B here again. g was right. A few Buds will kill the taste buds... hehehehe... tasteless Buds.

Seriously, knock that shit off. Watch this VERY closely and see who is in charge. It's brief but it's there. We've been there and done that for over a thousand years. Debate is good but don't get carried away with it. Have a Bud and lighten up eh ya hosers.

Gosh, I feel a bit tipsy. Perhaps I'll call for the chopper after g and I have a few more.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 05:32 PM

Besides doubling down with war and bombings, The President has seen to it that not one single criminal Wall Street Bank president has gone to jail.

The only cases prosecuted were Madoff and one insider trader violation.

What does it take to prosecute the theft of $50,000,000,000,000.00
50 trillion dollars is more damage that WW 2 inflicted upon the entire world.

Simply put, these criminals placed bets on credit and bought insurance on their bets to fail with money they did not own.
Then they told Congress the money machines would stop working in 5 days if COngress did not give them real betting money to cover the insurance and bad bets...and the money better be clean and not allow any judicial review... or else.

We are told to not expect any bankers to go to jail, WHY THE F NOT?

I say the US people and the world will delight to the prosecution of the bankers who sold worthless derivitives, bundled mortgage securities and insured thier bets by working to bankrupt key US corporations and manufacturers. What they did was worse than treason.

The man who was chairman of the deregulation of banks to be required to cover thier bets with thier own money was the Chairman of Goldman Sachs, Hank Paulson (with the help of bought off Federal SEC Regulators)   on April 24 2004 in the NYC 235 Woolworth Building. That was when the banks satrted to become so much in control of the entire money supply and never so much out of control.

Paulson was then appointed as the US Treasury Secretary by GWB.


President OBAMA:
WHERE IS OUR NUREMBERG TRIAL OF THE CRIMINAL US BANKERS?
WHERE IS OUR JUSTICE ?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 06:09 PM

But that's it in a nutshell Don....the system needs GROWTH, most people knew there was something wrong, but as long as the funny money kept rolling in nobody cared.....we can't blame it all on the bankers .....regulation kills Capitalism and most of us wanted the sick man to keep breathing.
Well now we've got the worlds most expensive corpse on our hands and our children and grandchildren will pay for the funeral.

In the UK, a few thousand young kids with no future went on the rampage...stole some clothes and electrical goods...some even brought them back the next day, they received very severe prison sentences for relatively minor crimes....yet as you say the people who looted fortunes got off Scot free......So much for "liberal" equality.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 06:30 PM

I'm tickled pink with Ripon, the home of the ripoff...


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 06:48 PM

Akenaton" ""Obama will change only what he is allowed to change."
I said that before he was elected, only to be attacked by Bill D, Amos, et al."

Hi, Ake!.....Here, in addition to what you just said, ..which is absolutely TRUE, ,it is, in fact, what I've been saying all along...and Obama is just the 'front man'!!

Nice to see(read)you again!

Regards, you little truth speaking weasel!(wink)
GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 06:54 PM

Opps wrong link on the other post!!! (You can delete the other one..but its still a pretty good link)


Akenaton" "Obama will change only what he is allowed to change."
I said that before he was elected, only to be attacked by Bill D, Amos, et al."

Hi, Ake!.....Here, in addition to what you just said, ....which is absolutley true! , ,it is, in fact, what I've been saying all along...and Obama is just the 'front man'!!

Nice to see(read)you again!

Regards, you little truth speaking weasel!(wink)
GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 07:27 PM

Um-hmmm.. That article seems to have been C&Pd by every right-leaning blog & web page in the universe... sometimes with a teeny bit of added comment..

""Obama's not in charge, I am" states jew puppeteer
European leaders said left "stunned". But i find it hard to believe as they know their puppeteers are jew overlords as well.

http://www.eutimes.net/2011/09/europ...rge/:eek::eek:"

You know.. or should know.. that context is everything. That may (or may not) be exactly what Geithner said, but anyone ought to see that he was comparing HIS job description to Obama's. It was perhaps an unfortunate way to phrase it, but it is true that it IS Geithner's job to make day-to-day financial decisions & policy. If Obama finds him deviating seriously from agreed on basic policy, he can send him packing.
I suppose by now, 'someone' has mentioned to Geithner that he needs to choose his words more carefully.


Gee it sure would be interesting to find out who wrote the original article that has right-wingers drooling with glee, but with 100,000 hits, it would be too tedious to sort out.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 08:18 PM

'So much for "liberal" equality.'

Ake, it's not about liberals or conservatives; it's about neocons, multinationals and banks. Money has no religion and no political belief--except in itself.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: gnu
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 10:03 PM

9... that's fuckin poetic... and true.

PS... The gas fruckers have ceased ops here after public pressure. It was in the newspaper. Odd thing tho... I keep seein heavy (HUGE) equipment bein hauled in on the roads. Does BP not understand that the newspapers said they had stopped?

I'd talk to B about this but she's passed out on the couch. She inhaled copious quantities of lasagna and a bunch a Buds... not a drop left. The broad can party.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 08:38 AM

Bill D: "...Gee it sure would be interesting to find out who wrote the original article that has right-wingers drooling with glee, but with 100,000 hits, it would be too tedious to sort out...."

Yeah, well "'Right' wing and 'Left' wing are on the SAME bird".
They both are corrupt, BOTH are NOT working for the common good of the common man, and tend to start divisions amongst people, for their sake of exploitations, and start wars!..either between nations or classes!
Hurray for 'OUR' side(?).....Enough, death, destruction, and misery yet?..as a result of these buffoons? Their 'leaders' should be turned off, and ignored, other than to monitor the damage they try to do! They are never satisfied with contented people, but rather stir up unrest, in order to accomplish the bidding of those who manipulate them!
Play music!..Make it better..and help bring peace.....then you'll REALLY piss them off!...Then, do NOT give them any more power!...They only use it to hurt peoples and nations, for their own profit!
Has all our painful experiences with these assholes taught us NOTHING, and brought us no where?????

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 08:56 AM

"Vietnam was Kennedy's baby"... GfinS

Well, not really... The US sent "advisers" to Vietnam in 1959 under Eisenhower so Vietnam was somewhat on Ike but Vietnam became the nightmare baby of the the next 3 presidents American presidents with Johnson and Nixon virtually handcuffed by it...

Might as well keep the history out there clean rather than muddied with revisionism...

As for the drones??? Had McCain been elected he would be using them Obama is and maybe more so...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: pdq
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 09:06 AM

Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,number 6 - PM
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 10:43 PM

sadly .... some people believe in the Oliver Stone movie .... personally I'm one believes that JFK and the old man screwed around with Chicago gangsters a bit too much ... but, let's leave these theories to previous thread's buried somewhere here in the Madcat.

Fact is .... Vietnam was JFK's baby.

write a folksong about that.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 10:16 AM

Bobert: "As for the drones??? Had McCain been elected he would be using them Obama is and maybe more so..."

Truth is, Obama AND McCain are drones!

gfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 10:20 AM

"Fact is .... Vietnam was JFK's baby."



You think???

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 10:48 AM

"Fact is" you're only partly correct, GFinS...

BTW, Dean Martin didn't do anything for me...

Bob


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 05:30 PM

GUEST,Guest from Sanity , It's remarkable that you should be quoting an article from the Washington Times, a Moonie newspaper.

I argue that the premise of this thread is correct and that we don't have true Capitalism any more, we have Corporatism whereby market competition is squelched by an Oligarchy.

We have given too much power to the Pentagon to make important national decisions as as it become more Christianized, it becomes a bigger out-of-control behemoth.

Obama's election was not about Camelot, an appraisal developed later in the JFK administration but was about the momentous proposition that a black man could be elected president in the US. It seems to me from the reading I've done that every presidential election comes in with expectant euphoric baggage that is later dissolved by the presentation of realistic problems.

Voting for Obama really is not the end game, only grass roots activism can achieve meaningful change in the system.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 05:42 PM

Strings is entirely correct... The Washington Times is the equivalent of FOX unNews... Good sports page, however, but the rest of it??? Shameful excuse for news... The front page is all editorial...

BTW, doesn't seem to be any BIG MEDIA coverage of the Wall Street protests... Like BIG MEDIA has conspired to not let the story see any daylight...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 06:00 PM

Is MSNBC big media? They have been on it for 2 days.......even though Keith Olbermann and Vanguard got to it first, and may be doing it better. Even CNN has found some time.

(Yes... it BECAME news once idiot police started random use of pepper spray... but hey... what ever they need to catch attention.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 06:46 PM

I think Washington has lost the plot. Obama seems to be in control of nothing.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 07:16 PM

MSNBC ain't BIG MEDIA, Bill... When NBC, CBS or ABC cover it then it will have gotten outta the box that BIG MEDIA wants to keep it...

Yo brucie... I would think that Canada would be the ones putting up the wall to keep Americans out...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 08:47 PM

Dear Akenaton, (not the reformed Pharohistic monothiesitic church leader and architect of Egypt, but the Mudcat reformed folkster)

We can blame it all on the bankers. Yes the credo of Wall St. for decades has been money for nothing, but I can show you the exact date and hour in which we can prove we can blame it all on the bankers, and specificly Henry Paulson chairman of Goldman Sachs.

April 28th at 233 Woolworth Building the SEC opened a conference room for the Security Holder Director Nominations Roundtable meeting.
Inside were four SEC regulators who were bought by Wall St. banks to change the enforcement of the regulation that required banks to back up thier speculative bets with thier own money. The chairman Henry Paulson wanted the banks to oversee thier own risk managment and remove any and all restricktions on their banks borrowing, that they and they alone could be trusted to manage all thier risks wisely.

I have segments of the meeting that was taped. When a regulator even suggested that they would still report any felonious findings the room filled with laughter. When another regulator said if anything went wrong it would make a really big mess, more laughter and sarcastic remarks like "Yeah right I'm convinced, har har har".

It was all over in an hour. The Banks had never been in so much control while simultaneously being so out of control.

I have all the reigulators names and photos of each bank representative at this monumental moment that has brought down the US and Central Banks worldwide.

Yes there were many other accomplices such as rating companies and NASA math specialists that were hired to produce the derviitive so that no one on Earth could decipher its behavior or validity except by propriatary computers. We could balme Wall St for grabbing up all the Enron traders who found themselves out of work. There are many culpable accomplices who have no more defense thatn the Nazi war criminals at Nuremberg.

Yes we rightly can and should blame the banks.

I Belive they should be put on Trial...A BIG PUBLIC TRIAL.
The FBI and others have more evidence than you know.

Tonight I shall write what the big trial might be like.

There is no need to be so cynical as think it is impossible.
It is possible, and the world would listen more carefully than they did for OJ, I assure you.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 09:26 PM

Cherry pick the favored or unfavored 'news'(read: propaganda) source..
LMAO!!!!..Actually I re-thought the above sentence and thought of flavored or unflavored 'news' source!....

Pick the 'news' flavor you like the best!

(Oh, it can't be true....(pant pant), ...its not from my favorite, slanted position!...Hell, who cares if its true or not!..Besides, I like their commercials better!...LOOK OUT!..They carried the same story on Fox!....and said the same thing....Now it must not be true!!

Bobert.....Oh Bobert....(*~sigh~*).

As to Strings,..:..."It's remarkable that you should be quoting an article from the Washington Times, a Moonie newspaper."

Well, I'm not a 'Moonie' anyway..but is the story true?...or not?!
(Pssst, look out, the reporter might be a 'Moonie' or a Jew, or a Christian, or a Unitarian, or a Mormon, maybe a Catholic, God Forbid!!!...(YIKES!..Did I say 'God'??),..we could give him a pass if he's a Muslim,(they're sorta 'in' right now)...BUT wait!...what if he is a Jehovah Witness??...Those bigoted sons-of-bitches....not like me!..I'm a liberal!!!!...We are the ONLY ones with an open mind!!!

Strings: "..I argue that the premise of this thread is correct and that we don't have true Capitalism any more, we have Corporatism whereby market competition is squelched by an Oligarchy."

Guess what??..I agree with you full-heartedly, and go one further..
The corrupt bastards at the top, don't give a rat's ass about us, other than tapping everything they can, by buying off the 'leadership'(?), of ALL the main parties!
This is not too hard to fathom, is it?..I mean, if you're going to buy out the Republican, why not the Democrats as well?..or the Tea party...Shit, don't you think they'd want to better their odds?..After all, they're buying off the politicians with our 'free' tax money....

Bobert: "Naw..The Democrats are as pure as the driven snow...I know!!..I am one!"

Strings: "...We have given too much power to the Pentagon to make important national decisions as as it become more Christianized, it becomes a bigger out-of-control behemoth."

Well. the same goes for the Pentagon as well, as above..EXCEPT they got funded enough to become a mercenary army for the top globalist oligarchy bastards, as per aforementioned, with Timmy Geithner, making sure he can tap the Treasury...Oh, don't worry!...He'll tell you its "Worth it"...even though he WON'T tell you where the money is going!(Have YouTube links on the Congressional hearings to prove that one!....with his pal Ben Bernanke!)

As to...."....important national decisions as as it become more Christianized"

I knew it all along!!...Jesus and the twelve Apostles, were discussing logistics and troop movements at that last high level briefing at the Last Supper!..I can see it now!!...Just like you can! They were inventing the Military Industrial Complex, and the gospels are actually a secret code. Jesus himself commissioned Mary Magdeline to head the WACS....Just ask ANYONE in the Pentagon!..but be careful, its Top Secret....nobody knows about it...except for...you.
(Time for a little Dean Martin, here....)!


Strings: "Obama's election was not about Camelot, an appraisal developed later in the JFK administration but was about the momentous proposition that a black man could be elected president in the US."

Oh?..Are you saying that those who voted FOR him was because he was black???.....Pssst,.. sounds a little like racial bias to me, sorta like 'bigoted'?.......Wait a minute GFS, 'bigot' is a word reserved to those who WE disagree with...NOT US!!..WE'RE LIBERALS!!!

Strings: "Voting for Obama really is not the end game, only grass roots activism can achieve meaningful change in the system."

Shhh, don't say that too loud..Tea Partiers might be listening!
But that's the Koch Bros. phony grass roots movement....Not like George Soros/Jeff Immelt, and us..besides, they told us they are 'liberals'..like us!...Now that's DIFFERENT!

Yes folks..I really am from Sanity......(but you can't see it)!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 09:33 PM

Somethin' about crazy folks... They see everyone else as crazy...

B~ (former social worker who worked with, ahhhh, crazy folks)...


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 09:46 PM

BTW.... The Koch bother and Dick Armeys cash make George Soros look like an indigent homeless man... If this was a war, the Koch/Armey folks would show up with nukes and Soros with bb gun...

You ever gonna run out of right winged teashit, GfinS???

You are eat up with MythTeaology... I mean, Betty Ford eat up... Every policy position you put forth is Koch/Armey crap...

Yawn...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 09:59 PM

Bobert: "BTW.... The Koch bother and Dick Armeys cash make George Soros look like an indigent homeless man... If this was a war, the Koch/Armey folks would show up with nukes and Soros with bb gun..."

In for a penny, in for a pound! Who cares how much money is spent...its the motive!...and ALL of it is CORRUPT!......(except 'your' side', right?...(or is that left?)

A social worker??!! My God, an expert!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 10:06 PM

Problem is that you buy into 100% of the Koch?Armey policy positions, GfinS...

I buy into policies that will help the country... Not rich people...

When you want to talk policy, fine... Until then, you're just parroting Koch/Armey rich people's BS...

But keep the music coming... I mean, you make be a right winged tea-nut but you do come up with some decent music...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 10:20 PM

Bobert: "Problem is that you buy into 100% of the Koch?Armey policy positions, GfinS..."

BZZZT!!--False!

Bobert: "I buy into policies that will help the country... Not rich people..."

..and only support programs to enrich the very people who you say are 'rich'!....Read my earlier post!
You're like a Bobcat...chasing its tail~

Bobert: "When you want to talk policy, fine... Until then, you're just parroting Koch/Armey rich people's BS..."

Bzzzt!! --False!


Bobert: "But keep the music coming... I mean, you make be a right winged tea-nut but you do come up with some decent music..."

Well, at least I am a left handed guitarist!....but I'm not right winged. ...It's just that you are so far 'left' that anything you can see in the distance MUST be to the 'right'!

Oh, and about the music?.....That's because my filters aren't cluttered and clogged with political garbage!..Try it..even YOU can have better taste in music!

Wink and a wave!
Here, just for shit's and grins...just for your favorite guys who insure you had a job!

Just for Bobert!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 10:35 PM

Funny, GfinS...

No, not Stevie Ray... You being a left handed geetar player... Love to hear yer stuff... When that gonna happen???

BTW, tax man for the last 30 years has been givin' 19 to the military industrial donors (mostly to your Repubs) and 1 to the rest of us...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 11:32 PM

In 2012 we will not be given a choice of tweedle de or tweedle dum.
There is a real difference.


Here is the Republican agenda:

Target for cuts or elimination;
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, EPA, SEC, Public Education, Police, fire fighters, Public employees.
Collective bargaining (possibly criminalizing unions).

Create more tax cuts for the wealthy up to and including a flat tax which only applies to wages but not capital gains, inheritence, royalties, gold holdings and interest. Increase costs and taxes on the middle class.
Continue monopolies in Insurence companies and subsidies for big oil.

Here is the Republican strategy:

Control the election results by changing electoral college rules in all Republican govenor states to always favor Republican candidates.
Limit all new voter registrations by law by adding new requirments like special voter cards for $40 dollars, $100,000 fines for not turnming in new registration cards within 24 hours, and a combination of old Jim Crow laws.
Continue in the House of Representatives to NEVER pass any bill that would increase jobs or stimulate the economy until a Republican President is elected. Continue to suggest Obama is neither American or Christian and that a bullet fired by a patriot would be celebrated as an act of heroism. Continue to seek a reversal Roe vs Wade. Privatize The nations second largest employer -the US Post Office. Eliminate 50% of Federal Workers.



The Democratic agenda

Approximatly the opposite of the Republican agenda (with the exception of continuimg to coddle Wall St.)









Watch 'Addicted to Money part 1' to see a segment of the most criminal meeting that led to our financial collapse. (20 minutes in)



originally aired on ABC


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 11:39 PM

Well sorta....They've been giving themselves the interest on those loans that fund all this shit, that they keep telling whatever party who 'buys' their 'sales' rap. Remember, they want BOTH party's business. Look at the interest you pay when you buy a home...compound that over the duration, of the loan, and you find you are paying DOUBLE the actual cost of the home!...Same with paying for WAR, entitlements, bailouts, 'green investments', bogus health care bills,(as opposed to GOOD ones, and on and on. Our taxes don't pay for those programs...ONLY the interest on the loans!! The jack-asses are robbing us blind, with the approval of whatever program appeals to which ever party!..
(About as 'successful' as the 'war on drugs'...no wonder it never gets won...their boys are also SUPPLYING the drugs!....but we keep footin' the 'bill' (or INTEREST) for the 'loan'..to wage this imaginary 'war'!..and that is much like all this crap, that the globalist banking jerk-offs keep 'selling'. WE DON'T NEED IT! Now they're in every nook and cranny of our live, with their hands out! Fuck 'em!

GfS

P.S. Yep, I play left handed....my Strat and Martin and Larrivee, are strung like yours(you could play my left handed guitars. My old 335 was strung the other way.(I can play with the strings strung both ways)
Of course, my keyboards, are standard.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 11:48 PM

Well, I don't see Obama's bombing of Yemen as a partisan issue. Obama has demonstrated that he serves the same financial and corporate masters that Bush did.

What's disturbing with this is that Obama said point blank he would end the wars. He lies constantly (as all politicians do), but the lie about the wars is a pretty bad one. A genocidal one.

Obama needs to be removed from office. The most graceful way would be to have him exit like LBJ did when he was faced with a rival within his own party. Kucinich would at least make an effort to end the wars.

So would Ron Paul. Election tomorrow, Obama vs Paul, I'd vote for Paul.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 11:52 PM

Songwronger has it RIGHT! Do my eyes deceive me?? Somebody on here has a real working brain!!
I bet you have better than average taste in music, as well!

regards!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 11:58 PM

Yemen?...doesn't matter..We're all over there screwing around with things...(makes the price of oil go up)...When it goes up high enough, we will drill here...for 'national security' reasons, I'm sure...but it will really be to base the 'new wealth' on an 'oil standard...which, BTW, the citizenry will not profit....just the 'big guys'....and they'll do it all with the support of one party or the other...whichever they will have bought=off, at the time. It's already in the works!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 12:12 AM

and the 'party is....(?)

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 12:13 AM

The only 2 presidential candidate possibilities whose word I trust are Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul. Period. They've both stood up consistently against American's foreign wars.

Republican audiences in 2008 laughed nervously when Ron Paul said in the televised debates that the reasons Muslims are fighting the USA is NOT because they hate our democracy or our culture, but because we are in their lands with our military and interfering in their lives. Dead right. The audience laughed because it scares them deeply to hear a simple truth like that, and their reaction is to deny it out of hand and poke fun at it.

Kucinich was blocked from even participating in the last few televised Democratic all-candidates' debates, because his position on the wars and various other issues left the rest of them in the dust and made them look like phonies and hypocrites...which they are, in my opinion. So they removed him from the process.

If it ain't seen on mainstream media, then it's almost as if it doesn't exist. That is how the corporate-owned media achieves "consent" from the public.

Okay, so they've given you the feelgood supposed triumph of electing "a black man" (Make that half-black....but even a 10th black is still considered "black" in America, right? Any amount will do.)   Well, gosh! What rabbit will they pull out of the corporate hat next time?

I'm thinking that it would look absolutely fabulous to elect a female president soon. Very progressive....even if she is just a shill for the corporate agenda. Maybe that will be the next glorious gambit to restore "hope". In any case, they will analyze hard what is most marketable in 2012, based on the public mood, and they'll trot out a candidate who fits that mood, market that candidate like mad, make sure the media does its job sewing discord, hatred, fear, gossip, paranoia, and utter nonsense about foreign lands, and The Great Oz will roll on majestically to another 4 years of imperial lunacy and fiscal madness.

And the world will watch it all...and shudder.

This sort of thing has happened before. The Romans did it. And they got away with it for a much longer period of time than America is going to...but things moved a lot slower then.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 12:20 AM

Taste in music? Hadn't thought of that in a while. Music's just kind of a natural thing, all around me.

I've fallen off the guitar playing lately but today...I listened to some bluegrass, and a fine homemade mix of banjo stuff someone loaned me, Haydn trios, Laurie Anderson's 'Mister Heartbreak.' That's a great album.

Heard some overtures too. Need to find someone to help me identify a passage in the overture to Don Giovanni by Mozart. Early on, where the music shifts from its solid opening to its next section...there's a section there, maybe 6 bars or so, where there seems to be two different tempi and the two groups of instrumentation kind of shift back and forth over each other. Very surreal. Or ethereal. Need to find out what's going on there so I can describe it better.

Typical day, music-wise. I enjoy reading over the music threads here when I have the time. Learned a lot. Need to go up "above the line" someday and ask the Brits about Music Hall music. I don't know squat about it and wouldn't know where to begin a study. I'll do some searches first.

Over and out.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 12:47 AM

We're like children, Little Hawk, we're so easily diverted. But some of those diversions make me smile. It's been wonderful watching Rick Perry self-destruct. His lies about Gardasil and immigration and all that. I suppose he'll be swept aside now and in six months no one will recall him. But he'll have a replacement. The one thing we can count on is that the powers that be will always give us a two-party choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 08:50 AM

Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul are 'point men'...similar to Ralph Nader...they go out and note serious issues and stir things up. Very useful, up to a point.

I would not trust ANY of those three in the White House. You know the phrase "Out of the frying pan, and into the fire"? They would clarify it.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 10:22 AM

The Mudcat awakening begins.

Will we have a Mudcat Spring too?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: pdq
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 10:25 AM

"Why the hell is he bombing Yemen?" ~ initial post

We just blew up the highest profile al-Qaeda leader yesterday...in Yemen.

Another one bites the dust.

"Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul are 'point men'...similar to Ralph Nader...I would not trust ANY of those three in the White House. " ~ above post

Add Ross Perot and a buncha others to that list. We have long election lead-ups so the candidates have a chance to show us what they are really like.

Mitt Romney has been considered the top candidate for a long time and still has not damaged his position by careless statements.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 10:39 AM

In the 'other' thread, about the 'Tea Party' I said the same thing about Kucinich or Paul..actually even posed a 'hypothetical' ticket with the two of them running together!..(Time for another 'Dean Martin' moment)....for the exact same reason Little Hawk noted. The only glitch with Kucinich, that I said was, that though he was opposed to Obama care, he did, in the end cave into whatever pressure or 'incentive' they threw at him...but I'd still vote for him over Obama, and I'd take Paul over Obama, as well....and as far as the 'so-called' liberal left, voting for Obama for the mere fact that he was black, as stated by Stringsinger, I guess by that same logic, you's think that for the same reason ,the 'libs' would now like to 'celebrate' by voting for Palin or Bachmann!...after all, it would be the first WOMAN president!...Maybe even a Palin/Bachmann ticket....so when they got menopausal, they would wipe the face of the earth from ALL our enemies..and friends, too!..in one hour!

Hey, Songwronger, what kind of music do you like? You mentioned bluegrass, and you were looking to 'get back into it'..ANYTHING I can do to help, let me know!...until then, here's this:enjoy...if you haven't already....

Regards to all, in the 'spring'....Your Awesome Blossom,

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 11:11 AM

"Mitt Romney has been considered the top candidate for a long time and still has not damaged his position by careless statements."

Yup! His 25% approval rating is intact! But "careless statements"? Like changing them every week or so?


Gee GfS... I think Obama would welcome a Palin/Bachmann ticket! I know every comedian extant would. Jon Stewart would swoon at the thought.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 12:04 PM

Yo, GfinS... You wouldn't vote for Kucinich in a million years... His positions are 180 degrees from the one's you have put forth here...

Paul??? Yeah, Ron "Lyndon LaRouche" Paul is your kinda guy... A complete wacko... We would see 50% poverty rates if his vision for American ever came to light... He is all for the corporation and all against the working class...

And shame on you, too, LH... You know better...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 12:12 PM

The real joke, is that so many here still think we can have "business as usual"....that this is some little glitch that can be tweaked by some intelligent politician like Mr Obama or Hill n' Bill, or all the Republican muppets who mouth the same platitudes we have been hearing for years.

Its over! and the sooner we all realise it the better....perhaps then we could all unite and start searching for another way.

But I doubt we can awaken the sleepwalkers.
"time for bed?".....said Zebedee..........."yes"....said Florence.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 12:36 PM

I don't agree with Ron Paul about everything, Bobert. I think his apocalyptic ideas about "socialism" are wacky. But I do agree with him on foreign policy. And I think he's an honest man.

I agree with Kucinich about pretty much everything. And I think he's an honest man.

But hey, Bill, I think you're right that they wouldn't do well in office, they'd be blocked and crippled at every turn by the system all around them...but it's a moot point, because there's little or no chance they will ever BE in office! ;-) The big party machines and their invisible corporate backers certainly would not let that happen. So they will continue to serve as point men, as you said.

Any candidate who actually does get to the Oval Office will, in my opinion, already have been bought out and made subservient to the imperial machine and the corporates, otherwise he or she would never get the backing to be elected. It doesn't matter what they say while they're campaigning. That's just the sales pitch. Wait till they get there, then watch what they do, and the hollowness of the sales pitch will soon be revealed. And the point men like Kucinich and Paul will point it out, and the machine will roll on.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 12:45 PM

LH,

I agree with him on that, also... But the rub is that a lot of folks would be perfectly willing to let him destroy the country just to get the wars ended... I can't bring myself to accept that trade-off...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 12:52 PM

"I think Obama would welcome a Palin/Bachmann ticket!"

Too late, Bill D. The movie was already made: Dumb and Dumber.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 02:12 PM

There is one way in which Obama is worse than Bush. Habeas Corpus is disappearing in the US where Bush incarcerated "enemy combatants" without due process, Obama is assassinating them. The recent American born cleric in Yemen, for example, is representative of the latest trend. This "enemy combatant" started as a moderate Muslim but grew increasing disenchanted with the US military occupation of Iraq, Afghanistan, now Pakistan and Yemen with the latter two subjected to intense drone strikes.

The killing of Osama bin Laden without a trial is a bad precedent. We need Habeas Corpus in our judicial system to uphold the Constitution and not cede killing to the will of presidents.

it will be uphill sledding for Obama because people are waking up to some of the bad judgements being made by this administration.

Ron Paul would not be a good replacement for Obama because of his rigid domestic policies and gutting of regulation in the energy industry, education, and denial of unions. He also has a history of dubious racial attitudes, one notably, his criticism of MLK which extended further than the non-violent methods. Ron Paul won't make it because the Military Industrial Complex will not allow it.

Wall Street and the Pentagon want Willard Romney because as a self-confessed "flip flopper" he is easily manipulated by these interests.

Romney vrs. Obama for 2012. He might bypass the Tea Party despite his Mormonism.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: gnu
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 02:28 PM

"Dumb and Dumber." HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAHEHEHEHEHEHE


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 02:53 PM

"….the 'libs' would now like to 'celebrate' by voting for Palin or Bachmann!...after all, it would be the first WOMAN president!...Maybe even a Palin/Bachmann ticket…."

I love that! That would accomplish two things. It would turn the U. S. into a REAL "Saturday Night Live" skit, which might have the rest of the world laughing nervously and shaking their heads, it would serve as an example of the worst possible way to run a country, and show the American people, including the Tea Pottiers, just how bad things CAN get, and it would most definitely impel me to emigrate to some civilized country in Europe, such as Norway, Sweden, Finland, or Denmark.

And here was (and in some circles, still IS) an argument against there being a woman president:

"....so when they got menopausal, they would wipe the face of the earth from ALL our enemies..and friends, too!..in one hour!"

Lemme see, now. Michele is 54, so she's probably already there. Sarah is 47, so any day now. Not to mention the ravages of PMS!

Ya know, GfS, if I were you, I'd emigrate to the Brazilian jungles or some unmapped island in the South Pacific after making those remarks. Betty Friedan, Gloria Steinem, Germaine Greer, Camille Paglia, and a whole bunch of other ladies might just gang up, track you down, and tear you a new one for that remark.

Be afraid! Be VERY afraid!!

Don Firth

P. S. In any non-fantasy world, it will be a cold day in Hell when any "lib" would EVER want to see either of those women—or any man who believes as they do—in the White House.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 03:11 PM

It also graphically illustrates what a shallow idea GfS has about liberals and liberal beliefs. He (she?) really should read a book on political philosophy, if reading is actually within the realm of the possible.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 03:56 PM

For a "liberal" Don, you are very liberal with the neurotic women stereotypes.

Tho' far be it from me to remind you of your own dogma.

I suggest YOU be very afraid......of the Mudcat women!


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 04:16 PM

Ake, you, too, need to learn to read a little more carefully!

I was pointing out how cavalierly GoofuS was throwing the stereotypes around. He (she) apparently THINKS in stereotypes. That's one of his/her major problems.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 04:20 PM

Anything vaguely resembling subtlety or satire is lost on some people.

And, Ake, how do YOU know what my "dogma" is? You, too, are dealing in stereotypes and pigeon-hole thinking.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 04:35 PM

Too bad there aren't any little cream pies available here. We could throw them at each other whenever we don't agree about politics or religion or fashion footwear. ;-D It's a harmless way of reducing tension, and you can eat the after-battle debris.

Remember the movie "Bugsy Malone"?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 04:42 PM

Say, Don, I think you just got the 100th post, and you were so modest and self-effacing as to not even mention it!


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 05:40 PM

Just consider these threads cyber-cream-pies, LH...

Splat!!!

Opps...

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 12:56 AM

ARGHH! (wiping banana cream filling out of eyes...)


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 01:38 AM

Don firth: "And, Ake, how do YOU know what my "dogma" is? You, too, are dealing in stereotypes and pigeon-hole thinking."

It's OK, Ake, 'My Karma just ran over his dogma!'

..and now a word from our sponsor....

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 01:56 AM

Hah! Missed me!

Grrrrrrrr!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 02:08 AM

oh yeah????

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 02:13 AM

..and one for Bobert...note the fingers!

Songwronger, hope you're still there....When you pick up your ax again, you WILL not be discouraged!
(I'll help ya')

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 02:30 AM

..for Songwronger...how you ax must feel........cheer it up!

You'll get it back!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 08:58 AM

I liked the Derrick Trucks one... He's a fine player... His right hand is more fun to watch than his left... MO, of course... It's kinda my style to pickin', too... Kinda a modified claw hammer...

The Prince solo??? I mean, yeah, it's decent but not the greatest... I can think of other folks who have laid down some fine solos over the years equal to or better... Eric Clapton, Leslie West, Stevie Ray, etc...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 12:50 PM

I love that clip. They're all doing a superb job, the singing is right on, and that rich wall of sound they generate is really something to hear...just keeps building.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 02:04 PM

Gotta do better than that, GoofuS.

I have SuperPowers!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 02:07 PM

Nice. ;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: gnu
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 04:40 PM

Prince is FAR underrated by most. He is a musical genius who transcends many genres. His gospel stuff is beyond amazing.

Having said that, he is no "winning" match for Knofler, BB... hey... it's all a dumb "contest" when ya start any contest.

Now, ya think he/anyone could best these guys? on a geetar?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: gnu
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 04:56 PM

Oh, yeah... GfS... thanks for the links! Good stuff!


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 05:24 PM

Prince is very, very good. My favorite guitarist, however, is Mark Knopfler.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 06:52 PM

The problem with Obama now is that he has taken the prerogative of killing American citizens without due process (habeas corpus) which violates the Constitution, violated by a Constitutional scholar. This is an extremely bad precedent for the Executive Branch of our government.

I never said however that Obama was voted in because he was Black. That mischaracterizes what I said. It was a contributing factor, not the only one.
Obama had the skills to govern. He has made some wrong choices.

A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Libertarian principles which are bound to fail because they don't really address the needs of the American public. They protect the wealthy, which is what Paul would do, at the expense of stealing from the public (tax cuts). In destroying government and suggesting that corporations are more capable of incorruptibility is truly laughable, they are the most corrupt element of what's left of government today. They own it. Ron Paul would destroy the public sector and establish an anarchic non-governmental state whereby the only governing body that he would end up supporting would be the US military, this, in spite of his protestations, legitimately claimed, against these meaningless wars. Why the military? It is the only authoritative governing body left outside of the shambles of democracy. The Egyptians made this mistake, they pay for it by being confronted by their military which squelches their democracy.

To change the economic system in the US, so-called "free trade" must be abolished in order to reign in the transnational corporations that are no longer in America's best interest. Tariffs must be reintroduce to protect unions and the American worker in conjunction with rebuilding American industry.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 06:58 PM

I didn't vote for Obama. I voted for the best candidate in 2008. Me.

Nevertheless, I did not win, but that was because it takes time fer the public to awaken to a radical new approach like I am offerin'. Great visionaries are never accepted early...but they win in the long run as folks catch on to what they are sayin' and realize that the time for REAL change is finally at hand!

And that is gonna happen soon. You are gonna see a chimp in the White House very soon. You are gonna see big bankers arrested, jailed, and tried for defraudin' the country and destroyin' the world economy. You are gonna see corporate CEOs payin' a bigger percent of their bloated income in taxes than anyone else does, and not gettin' no more huge yearly bonuses for doin' hostile takeovers that destroy jobs. You are gonna see ALL the troops brought home to THIS country where they friggin' belong, the jobs brought home too, and you are gonna see massive job creation as our swords are beaten into ploughshares. You are gonna see not ONE more damned atomic bomb built in this country, ever! We got way too many of the damn things already. You are gonna see zoo animals given free choice to either move back to the wilds where they came from...or integrate into regular society and get Social Security Numbers, apartments, and job training. You are gonna see fresh organic bananas available all year round and agri-business made to stop usin' pesticides and start usin' natural methods of growin' healthy plants and maintainin' healthy topsoil. You are gonna see an end to corporate factory farms that enslave drugged animals in horrible over-crowded conditions, and a return to traditional small farming where the animals get to live outside and eat their real natural food like they used to back before WWII.

You are gonna see Sarah Palin hostin' a daytime TV entertainment & fasion show (kinda like Oprah) so she don't endanger the political process no further, but she can still have some fun, earn good money, and be famous.

You are gonna see free and equal health care for all...paid for by cutting the friggin' annual military budget by about 60%. We need enough military to adequately defend ourselves. We sure as hell don't need enough to dominate and terrorize the rest of the world and invade and occupy 3 or 4 small countries every now and then.

You are gonna see Guantanamo given back to Cuba, and Alcatraz re-opened for bankers.

You are gonna see outright Total War waged on "THE MAN" (by which I mean the big corporate fat cats, Big Pharma, the oil companies, the Federal Reserve Bank, etc) and the beginning of the 2nd American Revolution...of the people, by the people, for the people. And this time I will lead it. Just watch me.

- Chongo


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 07:01 PM

Back to the Washington Moonie Times,

No legitimate impeachment could take place unless it includes Bush and Cheney for war crimes (Iraq, water-boarding) and the idea that Rep. Darrell Issa, California Republican is an honest broker presiding with his past corruption and criminal activity is another canard. Also, Clarence Thomas should be impeached for his transgressions in the financial dealings with the Tea Party and the Heritage Foundation (you won't read that in the Moonie Times).

The Occupy Wall Street movement is the most promising historical event that we have today. Obama has to respond to this if he is to be re-elected.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 07:50 PM

Yeah, the impeachment (not removal) of Bill Clinton served the Repubs well... In doing it they pissed off the American people who didn't want Congress to spend time playing games... The along comes the most impeachable president since, ahhhh, forever but the Dems would have been accused of trying to get back for the Clinton impeachment so Bush got away with murder... Make that lots of murders...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 09:22 PM

Actually, the guitarist that has blown MY mind as of the last couple of years was only 14 years old when he filmed this, on his web cam.....and he's got a bunch of them..some original some not....but an ass-kicker none the less!

OK, Folks......Matt Rach!

Enjoy(?)

Grinning!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 09:28 PM

Oh, by the way, he plays ALL the other instruments, and plays 'live' over the accompanying tracks!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guuest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 10:52 PM

Ohh YEAHHH????

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 10:57 PM

Yeah, we need to put Bush back in office for a day so we can impeach to murderer...

Not in the mood for more YouTube...

Time for all good Americans to quit the ballgames and call the Tea Party for what they are doing: trying to destroy America by blaming the wrong folks for the wrong stuff...

B~b


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 11:02 PM

Hey Bobert, The Tea party thread is just next to this one! This one is "I voted for Obama, but..."
But What??..SURPRISE SURPRISE!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Josepp
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 11:10 AM

GfS,

If you want to be taken seriously, find credible news sources. The Washington Times?? You DO know who founded and owns the Washington Times, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 06:39 PM

Lemme guess... Reverend Sun Moon??? Never mind... I knew that already... This is not a newspaper anymore than FOX news is a news station... Pure commentary... No news...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 06:54 PM

A lot of us have known that for a long time, GfS. Where have YOU been?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 01:54 AM

Here we go...AGAIN...Jeez, I thought this was addressed already...I mean, the question should be, "Is the story true or not?"
So let's re-visit the reply:
..Though I answered so other silliness as well....


GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 12:03 PM

If the story is true, find it in a credible new source. Just sayin'...


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 12:30 PM

I would've voted for Obama back in 2008...if I was an American. I would've figured him a far better choice than McCain. However...I would have been mightily bothered by how the Democratic Party shut Dennis Kucinich out of the later TV debates and made sure that his message was pretty much screened out of mainstream media, since it was so embarrassing to all the other Democratic frontrunners. And I would have been mightily bothered by Obama's evident enthusiasm for continuing a pointless war in Afghanistan.

And I would have waited with a mixture of hope and trepidation to see what Obama would do once in office...hoping that he might actually turn things around...fearing that he wouldn't.

And I would have been VERY disappointed by what he did do once in office as the last 3 years of folly unfolded!

And I would have thought, "Well, still probably better than McCain. But what a friggin' mess this is!"

Which just goes to show, no matter which one of those parties you elect, you wind up with the same corporate disease right back in office, the same foreign wars, the same payoffs and financial chicanery, the same lies and propaganda and ripoffs and deceit....but a different presidential "face" out front yapping about it behind a bunch of microphones.

I think Obama may be a nice guy, certainly an intelligent guy...but he's working for a criminal system, and he's doing what that system requires of him.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 01:38 PM

Serious question, Little Hawk.

It's one thing to say, "The whole system is corrupt. No matter what you do, it will STILL be corrupt1" Then throw up you hands and head for the nearest bar. But it's something else to stiffen your spine, put your foot down, and say, "This has got to change!"

You keep saying the former. Lots of people here on these threads keep saying that. That's mere observation. Easy to stroke your chin, say nothing beyond the obvious, and sound like you're very erudite.

BUT--   Do you, or for that matter, GfS, have any suggestions as what Americans can do--should do--to change the situation?

And let's keep it realistic, okay? It's easy enough to say, "Elect Dennis Kucinich president," but we've tried that. No go!

So. Let's hear what you've got.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 01:50 PM

Thats right Hawk, its really very simple stuff, wonder why folks get so wound up in the divisiveness? It cant be lack of brains...look at the people we have here, most well educated, some with degrees, thinking like pre school childred.....why is that? have they got a stake in the system, or is it just bloody mindedness?

Its the same MO on every issue, they seem to be unable to see beyond their self constructed barriers and discuss a subject objectively.

Its about something which does not really exist, the vision of EQUALITY, every issue is weighed against that word regrardless of the rights and wrongs.
And its never about real equality....which I've said, does not and never will exist.....its about an etherial idea.
Another distraction.

G f S.....I loved your last post funny and right on the nail!!


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 01:54 PM

Don....no one can change anything on their own.......the very first thing one has to do, is admit to yourself that the system is in fact the problem, and can never be the answer.....then change may come.....slowly.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 01:59 PM

Obvious, Ake. I was hoping for something better.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 02:22 PM

That may seem obvious and simple but there are many who cling on in the hope that "something will turn up"....maybe you are one of them? and of course there are millions who will lose a little.....a very little, by real change......Regardless of the politician's buzz words most people are terrified of change, thats why the politicos know that they will never need to fulfill their promises.

Its about changing our perceptions first and foremost and that will take more than one generation.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 03:34 PM

What you choose to do about it, being an American, is up to you, Don. Anything you can come up with is fine with me. I'm sure there are a number of possible alternatives, and I am not suggesting you throw your hands up in the air, give up, and go out to the bar and get drunk. ;-)

I'm not an American. What I chose to do about it way back in 1969 was to move the hell out of the USA and back to Canada. But I am Canadian, so that puts me in a different position than you're in. If I was an American citizen, I'd probably still be in the USA.

If I was, I would support independently minded types like Dennis Kucinich whatever way I could. I'd make financial contributions to his campaign funding. I'd look with deep skepticism on the present party system and work toward something quite different...such as a no-party system, for example. In 2008 I would have voted for Obama as the lesser of two evils, and I would have protested his decisions to bail out the banks, continue the Afghan war, and bring in a health care plan that was mostly a give-away to the private health insurance industry.

In saying that the system is corrupt, which it is, I am not saying you should do nothing about it....I'm saying you should do whatever little you can to uncover that corruption and object to it, and propose alternative approaches.

Heck, do whatever you can. That's entirely up to you.

*****

Ultimately though, Don, I see life as a spiritual journey. That's a personal and individual journey, okay? It has mostly to do with self-development, inner work, improving oneself, overcoming fear, unlocking the heart, learing to love. Politics is part of the outer stuff that goes on in society. It's ephemeral. It's like bubbles on the surface of the river, rising and vanishing. I am interested in politics...to an extent...but I'm far more interested in transforming myself through inner work than I am in whatever the hell is going on in the world of politics...a world which is usually deeply compromised by various competitive and ruthless power groups who are out for their own material gain.

I don't frankly expect to be able to do much about that. The only thing in this world that I have full jurisdiction over is myself...and that's where my real work lies. My real work is to master and improve myself as a living, conscious being.

If you feel that your real work (or part of it) lies in reforming the American political system, then I wish you the very best in doing so, and by all means, do it any way you can figure to do it. Joan Baez, whom I greatly admire, has devoted her whole life to that cause, and I think well of her for doing so. Dennis Kucinich appears to be doing the same, and I applaud him for it. He has to have a lot of courage to be doing what he's doing.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 08:03 PM

All of which I know, of course. But thanks.

Have worked at it. Still am.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 08:42 PM

Killing Anwar al-Awlaki isn't a feather in Obama's cap. Al-Awlaki was an American citizen. Obama publicly targeted an American citizen for assassination. A first for a U.S. president, if I'm not mistaken. Obama also said he didn't need congressional approval to wage war in Libya. Illegal.

Obama was an obvious Wall Street puppet when he ran for the presidency, but many voters chose him over McCain because of the war issue. Obama has betrayed us on that issue. He's an even greater warmonger than George W. Bush.

Obama has disappointed on so many fronts.

Operation Fast and Furious. Gunrunning to Mexico, resulting in the deaths of U.S. agents and no telling how many citizens in the U.S. and Mexico. Obama's Department of Justice helped initiate the fiasco. It will probably be his Watergate.

Social Security. Obama was the first president to put it on the table in discussions over budget cuts. His supporters said the Tea Party made him do it, but come on. He's the president. He didn't have to do it.

Obama has virtually killed NASA's manned space flight program.

On and on. I voted for Obama, but...I have a bunch of issues with him.

On the bright side, Ralph Nader has just endorsed Ron Paul. More or less. Looks like a full endorsement is coming. Bravo for Nader. I guess since Democrats aren't going to challenge Obama, Nader wants to throw his weight behind a true agent for change.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 09:02 PM

Reality 101:

First... No president since Lincoln has seen more opposition push back what Obama has had... The opposition party has made it clear that they have no interest in governing... Their only goal is ridding the US of a black president... Period... Every policy that Obama has put in place is Republican yet we have all these rabid haters calling him a socialist???

Second, Obama has done all he could do against the head wind and the major BIG MEDIA advantage that the right has...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 10:13 PM

Every policy that Obama has put in place is Republican yet we have all these rabid haters calling him a socialist

That's very perceptive. Obvious mislabeling for political purposes. If you can see that, why can't you see through the racism gambit? It's just another divisive ploy. Is Ralph Nader racist because he prefers Ron Paul to Obama? Am I racist because I question what Obama has done as president? I've come to dislike him because he lied to the country about his intentions. And he just openly assassinated an American citizen. Those actions speak to the content of his character, not the color of his skin.

Obama needs to be replaced. The Democrats need to step up and deal with the issue.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 10:19 PM

Had a white Democrat been elected president in 2008 would we have seen this level of opposition???

I doubt it... No, make that, I seriously doubt it...

The Tea Party is "Exhibit A"... Where did they come from??? Pretty much the same folks who's daddies or grand daddies were Klansman...

Reality 101...


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 11:39 PM

I think you would see this level of opposition if the Democrats had elected a white guy, Bobert. What the Republicans are up to is what they are always up to...trying to destroy the Democratic presidency. It was the same when Clinton was president. It's the mirror image, of course, of what Democrats do when there's a Republican president...they try to destroy the Republican presidency.

The fact that Obama is "black" is convenient for Republican idealogues simply because that's one more thing that they can use to scare a certain part of their constituency...but it's not the real reason they are out to destroy him. The real reason is merely that he's a Democrat. The fact that he's "black" just gives them one more target to fire at, that's all. If he was unmarried, they'd have another. If he was a known atheist, they'd have another. If he was gay, they'd have yet another! ;-) (But that ain't gonna happen in US politics for some time yet, in my opinion.)

Look, any excuse will do, okay? The primary purpose of the Republican Party is to destroy the Democratic Party and gain power. The primary purpose of the Democratic Party is to destroy the Republican Party and gain power.

This does not help the country, simply because, as Lincoln said: "A house divided against itself cannot stand." !!!!

The USA is a house permanently and bitterly divided against itself by a bipartisan divide that has gone terminally mad, in my opinion, and that's why I would prefer to see both of those parties abolished for good, no more parties created in their place, simply a large slate of independent candidates running for office in every riding, and a national legislature formed from those candidates elected...and not a divided legislature! A single body of many individuals with many different ideas.

This would be a very different system, however, from the present one, and I have no expectation at all that it will happen anytime in the near future. There's too big an investment in maintaining the status quo, and most people don't even realize that there are any alternatives to it.....just as most people didn't realize a few hundred years ago that there was any alternative to rule by hereditary monarchs. They'd grown up with it, they believed in it implicitly, they were loyal to it, they thought it was the only way to go, and they fought in its defense without question. Such is the case now with our party-driven divisive political systems. People take them for granted. They think it's the only way to go.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 12:49 AM

Oh Bobert! You and your stupid rants about the ONLY reason people don't like Obama, is because he is black!...That is just plain STUPID! Did it ever occur to you that maybe people don't like him, because he's a shitty president who lies too much, and makes asinine excuses for EVERYTHING that he is incapable of dealing with.. effectively!
Based on YOUR argument, I think I'll vote for Cain...he's blacker!

Now you tell me why you don't like Cain..........................then I get to bitch at you, because YOU'RE racist!
My turn!

Jeez!
GfS

P.S. Is the point occurring to you yet?
I'll post about the other ones later..I'm buried in studio work....love you all...especially the racist, bigots and slur-bitches!


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 03:42 AM

Oh well, lookie here:

Below is just an excerpt from writer Alexander Higgins article titled "The Wall Street 'Pentagon Papers' Biggest Scam in World History Exposed"

I recommend you go to the link and read the entire article in order that you will have some understanding of the crimes perpetrated by the bankster fraudsters, and pass this on to your contacts. Perhaps if more people have even a small understanding of what has been, and is still, going on, the "Occupy Wall Street" protest movement, may grow legs and become a pivotal point in saving what is left of the middle class and taking our country back from the thieving bankster crooks.

And by the way, we all have Senator Bernie Sanders, and a few others, to thank, for tirelessly pushing against strong opposition, and forcing the audit, that revealed the depth of treachery at the Federal Reserve.


http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/07/28/wall-street-pentagon-papers-biggest-scam-world-history-exposed-federal-reserves-crimes-big-comprehend-44631/



I've written many reports detailing the crimes of Wall Street during this crisis. The level of fraud, from top to bottom, has been staggering. The lack of accountability and the complete disregard for the rule of law have made me and many of my colleagues extremely cynical and jaded when it comes to new evidence to pile on top of the mountain that we have already gathered. But we must not let our cynicism cloud our vision on the details within this new information.

Just when I thought the banksters couldn't possibly shock me anymore… they did.

We were finally granted the honor and privilege of finding out the specifics, a limited one-time Federal Reserve view, of a secret taxpayer funded "backdoor bailout" by a small group of unelected bankers. This data release reveals "emergency lending programs" that doled out $12.3 TRILLION in taxpayer money – $3.3 trillion in liquidity, $9 trillion in "other financial arrangements."

Wait, what? Did you say $12.3 TRILLION tax dollars were thrown around in secrecy by unelected bankers… and Congress didn't know any of the details?

Yes. The Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves. The original copy of the Constitution spontaneously burst into flames. The ghost of Tom Paine went running, stark raving mad screaming through the halls of Congress.

The Federal Reserve was secretly throwing around our money in unprecedented fashion, and it wasn't just to the usual suspects like Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citigroup, Bank of America, etc.; it was to the entire Global Banking Cartel. To central banks throughout the world: Australia, Denmark, Japan, Mexico, Norway, South Korea, Sweden, Switzerland, England… To the Fed's foreign primary dealers like Credit Suisse (Switzerland), Deutsche Bank (Germany), Royal Bank of Scotland (U.K.), Barclays (U.K.), BNP Paribas (France)… All their Ponzi players were "gifted." All the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations got their cut.

Talk about the ransacking and burning of Rome! Sayonara American middle class…

If you still had any question as to whether or not the United States is now the world's preeminent banana republic, the final verdict was just delivered and the decision was unanimous. The ayes have it.

Any fairytale notions that we are living in a nation built on the rule of law and of the global economy being based on free market principles has now been exposed as just that, a fairytale. This moment is equivalent to everyone in Vatican City being told, by the Pope, that God is dead.

I've been arguing for years that the market is rigged and that the major Wall Street firms are elaborate Ponzi schemes, as have many other people who built their beliefs on rational thought, reasoned logic and evidence. We already came to this conclusion by doing the research and connecting the dots. But now, even our strongest skeptics and the most ardent Wall Street supporters have it all laid out in front of them, on FEDERAL RESERVE SPREADSHEETS.

Even the Financial Times, which named Lloyd Blankfein its 2009 person of the year, reacted by reporting this: "The initial reactions were shock at the breadth of lending, particularly to foreign firms. But the details paint a bleaker and even more disturbing picture."

Yes, the emperor doesn't have any clothes. God is, indeed, dead. But, for the moment at least, the illusion continues to hold power. How is this possible?

To start with, as always, the US television "news" media (propaganda) networks just glossed over the whole thing – nothing to see here, just move along, back after a message from our sponsors… Other than that obvious reason, I've come to the realization that the Federal Reserve's crimes are so big, so huge in scale, it is very hard for people to even wrap their head around it and comprehend what has happened here.

Think about it. In just this one peek we got at its operations, we learned that the Fed doled out $12.3 trillion in near-zero interest loans, without Congressional input.

.......    Go to link to read more.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 03:59 AM

General Electric is planning to move its 115-year-old X-ray division from Waukesha , Wis. , to Beijing . In addition to moving the headquarters, the company will invest $2 billion in China and train more than 65 engineers and create six research centers. This is the same GE that made $5.1 billion in the United States last year. but paid no taxes-the same company that employs more people overseas than it does in the united States .

So let me get this straight. President Obama appointed GE Chairman Jeff Immelt to head his commission on job creation (job czar). Immelt is supposed to help create jobs. I guess the President forgot to tell him in which country he was supposed to be creating those jobs.


If this doesn't show you the total lack of leadership of this President, I don't know what does. Please pass this information to others and think about it before you buy a GE product.



It really shows the complete take over of our democratic government by corporates and banksters. Until we reverse the criminal Supreme Court, Citizens United decision, that holds that corporations are people and money is speech, and fund election campaigns with public money, to stop the corporate and bankster crooks from corrupting our elected officials, we will continue to be subjected to policies that serve the best interests of the biggest crooks, rather than the people, of this country.

Just so you know, Justices Kennedy, Roberts, Alito, Scalia and Thomas, were the 5 that held for the decision. Justices Stevens, Ginsburg, Breyer and Sotomayor, held against. This decision allows corporations, even foreign owned multi-national corporations, from pouring unlimited, unaccounted, and unattributed monies into our political system to influence voters not just in elections, but also in referendums. They can purchase 100's of millions of dollars worth of commercial advertising to promote a candidate or a bill or destroy a candidate or bill.

If any further rigging were required, the above criminal activity can be combined with the fact that we are increasingly adopting electronic voting machines that have been repeatedly and publicly hacked in demonstrations, in as little as 15 minutes. But since the machines themselves are controlled by corporations, the hacking factor is pretty much redundant. No other democratic country uses them, for this reason. Might be worth considering the factors in play, by which we insist on using them.

In short, big money owns us lock, stock and barrel. And if big money determines slaves overseas should do our jobs, then that's the way it's going to be. But don't worry when Americans get desperate enough to work for SFA
(Sweet F**k All) then the corporate assholes might just bring some jobs back here.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 05:06 AM

'the "Occupy Wall Street" protest movement, may grow legs and become a pivotal point in saving what is left of the middle class and taking our country back from the thieving bankster crooks.'

This seems to fly in the face of your post to the Wall Street Protesters thread. Which is it? You denigrated their efforts by being offensive.

This is what you wrote on that thread:

"I looked at all the visual 'news' media footage I could check out, and this is what I came up with....

..a bunch of young punks, who don't know jack shit about what they are doing, but have been whipped up by some manipulating shills, pretending to care. Anything to get Americans to immolate, the uprisings we see on the news, in the Mideast, and turn against each other, and that will allow the government to crack down, on us all, implementing all the police state crap, that they've just been waiting for an excuse, to do, for a long fucking time! THIS IS CONTRIVED...and bullshit!
If they wanted to march, and/or if they knew what they were really marching about, they'd be in Washington!
Most of these little punks look like they haven't even been out of the bathroom, counting their new pubic hairs with tweezers, and experienced anything in life, to even know what they are doing!..
....and any clowns in here, who are supportive of them, aren't spending enough time working on their music...and just want to relive their stupid youth...doing equally stupid bullshit!"

####################################################

It's gotta be the water.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 10:41 AM

"'the "Occupy Wall Street" protest movement, may grow legs and become a pivotal point in saving what is left of the middle class and taking our country back from the thieving bankster crooks.'"

I thought that at last you'd come to the reality you say you're from. Now I see you are quoting someone else. Too bad, because I had thought there was hope for you. Talk about 'dashed on the rocks'.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 02:03 PM

No, Guest 999....I was merely giving you both sides of the 'rational', behind this crap.....Go look at the post under the 'Wall Street' Thread.
This is clearly a Machiavellian Principle gimmick!
...and maybe there's 'hope' for you, too...
(wink!)
GfS

P.S. The bottom line, IS to stir up shit on the streets, violence, and 'remedies'....though some of the abuses on Wall Street and Washington are now 'just to big to hide'!


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: gnu
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 03:40 PM

"...because YOU'RE racist!"

""... love you all...especially the racist, bigots and slur-bitches!"

WTF is going?

Hmmm... could it be that such impropriety is allowed to remain to demonstrate to all readers that the poster's character and/or judgement is questionable?

A little bit of yer own medicine? BTW, I ain't the only one that feels these are personal attacks. Lighten up eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 04:01 PM

gnu, That was a little bit of sarcastic satire....come on, now, grab another cup of coffee.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: gnu
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 06:25 PM

Really? Cause I felt like telling you to retract those or fuck off you ignorant piece of shit.

My mistake.

Sorry about that. >;-)

Notice the happy wink face. That makes it ALLLL better eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 07:00 PM

Fire an arrow over the battlements, and another one comes right back. It can go on almost forever.

A year later no one can even remember why.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 08:32 PM

Yes, LH, the Repubs have long been 100% about gaining power and little else... We agree on that... The difference here is that with a "black president" they have unleashed the old hatred of blacks by their right winged flank, i.e., the Tea Party... Of course the Tea Party scream racism when they are confronted... That is so ridiculousness... Be like justifying a lynching because they thought the black guy they were hanging was a racist??? Totally stupid argument...

BTW, sorry, GFinS, but I no longer read your posts... You have become the worst of Old Guy/Dickey/Sawz and the comment about my cat showed just how far you have dropped in terms of being a f'n human being...

So, bye to you... Go hang with the other righties, past and present...

BTW, I wouldn't let you carry Beardedbruces's jock strap... He has class... You don't...

Now back to Wall Street...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 08:40 PM

...or Obama... Or whatever/whoever the right hates today...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 09:01 PM

I'm with you, Bobert. Nothing to learn from that source.

####

". . . the racist, bigots and slur-bitches!"

Jayzuz! Look who's talking!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 09:42 PM

THANK YOU!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 11:04 PM

Bobert: "...BTW, I wouldn't let you carry Beardedbruces's jock strap... He has class... You don't...
Now back to Wall Street...
B~"

As usual, you are confused....this is the, "I voted for Obama, but..." thread...not the, "Wall Street Protesters..." thread.

It is both with relief, and gratitude the you and Don won't be reading my posts...Don usually misquotes them back to me, and distorts them, anyway!! ..and you are more hung up in party politics, to the point where you'd throw the country under the bus, rather than admit, that the Democratic party has been corrupted, and fucked up...even with the likes of Pelosi's bullshit, Reid, and yes, that front man for the globalist bankers, Obama. The ONLY good thing about him is that he is black...oh, and half white, too.(Ooops, there goes the 'racist' argument!).......maybe I disliked the 'white' side.....no, the black side...no, the white side...no....the crappy, phony president side! ...(I thought the Democrats DIDN'T like Wall Street, big business and the bankers...how come you like this guy who is their front man puppet?)..
....So, take this opportunity to duck out....the two of you have been getting slaughtered anyway. Learning something, and building up on it would have been a better option...but to tell you the truth, I was getting pretty tired of dealing with such stubborn silliness!

THANK YOU!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 11:13 PM

Mental illness, GfinS...

My last post to you...

Bye

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 11:27 PM

Jeez! How many 'last posts' are you going to have????

Grinning and waving....
GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 11:51 AM

What is the average age of a mudcat poster?...50...55?

Anyone from the real world reading this would think you were still in playschool.

In Scotland, we have an old saying "Keep the heid", meaning dont lose control...dont indulge in temper tantrums its pointless and makes you look immature,

I never lose my temper online and very rarely offline, but if I do, I make sure its worth the hassle......no posing please!


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 12:54 PM

Ake, I'm not 'angry' in the least.....maybe a little disappointed in those, that with overwhelming evidence to support the FACTUAL, there are so many in here who just hold onto a fantasy of leftist's myths!..and its somewhat a shame, because some of them have become as
these .

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 01:32 PM

The problem, I think, is that the job of president is so awesome (in the huge sense) that anyone who undertakes it finds themselves on a cliff of insecurity. I can see that it would be natural for Obama to run to those who he has familiarity with, the Harvard academics, the Bush teams who would give him continuity, and the obvious death threats he must have received by white bigots. He is probably fearful of bringing in people who the GOP would attack brutally such as Stiglitz, Krugman, Reich and those who really have a handle on our economic predicament.

Unfortunately the only change that we can hope for under his administration is the change in the pocket of Wall Street. He relies on it for his campaign money and won't go against it.
That's up to us to do that.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 02:05 PM

Strings: "Unfortunately the only change that we can hope for under his administration is the change in the pocket of Wall Street. He relies on it for his campaign money and won't go against it.
That's up to us to do that."

Well, we ARE supposed to be a government FOR and BY the PEOPLE. wouldn't it be nice if our elected 'representatives' would display SOME integrity? They don't HAVE to be susceptible to being so corrupted, wouldn't you agree?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 07:26 PM

Well, Strings, in the words of George W, "Being president is hard..." Of course, this was George W... Everything is hard for him...

But your observation that Obama finds himself in a trick bag is 100% accurate... We all learned with the Dixie Chicks just how much of BIG MEDIA is owned by Republicans and just how quickly they can strike... Obama hasn't gotten much help from the progressives but hopefully that will change with the Occupy Wall Street movement will give him some cover...

Face it, the progressive movement has been blackballed for the last 34 years but maybe that is about to change... It took hundreds of thousands of Egyptians to bust up the right winged ballgame there and it may very well take that many to break up the Wall Street ballgame...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 07:29 PM

Being president is a wretchedly hard job. Makes you wonder who would want it? And why? But I guess some people are just born to take on such a role in life.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 07:56 PM

Yeah, LH, seems only a masochist would want the job... I wouldn't have the job if they up and gave it to me... No thanks... Plus, where's a president gonna go to cop a little weed??? No where... You can't just walk up to Capitol Hill and knock on yer friend's door and catch you a buzz 'n a bag...

Might of fact, you can't do squat... You're like a prisoner...

Forget it...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 10:39 PM

My feelings exactly! I'd refuse the job in a heartbeat...if some fool were unwise enough to offer it to me in the first place. ;-)

That's why I can't figure out why Chongo's after it. Sometimes I think he might be a few cookies short of a load. Of course...he's always been attracted to high risk situations and long odds...


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 10:45 PM

Chongz is mentally ill...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 10:53 PM

Others have said that too. Chongo is not impressed by such opinions. He says, "At the end of the day only there's only ONE opinion that counts, and that one belongs to the ape in the glass. Ya who that is? Me. When I got a tough question that needs answerin', I consult the ape in the glass and he never lets me down."

He might make a pretty effective president after all with that kind of moxie. I figure he will either end up on Mount Rushmore...or in front of a firing squad.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 11:30 PM

..or both..judging from the way this country is, these days!

gfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 01:33 PM

Well, yes....both is also a possibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 11:49 PM

And the Obama wars go on. And Obama says he's against the bankers while he accepts their donations and funnels money to them.

I look each day for news of a primary challenger, but there's nothing. Some mention of Hillary once in a while, but the country's had enough of the Clintons and the Bushes and that lot.

Sure a demoralizing time.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 11:50 PM

Dead on, Songwronger!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Oct 11 - 12:50 PM

The normal political game seems to be "Tell the public whatever will make them feel good...or scare them into compliance...whichever works...but DO exactly what your rich backers have told you to do and be a good, obedient boy till your time in office expires. What you tell the public and what you do for your rich backers are two VERY different things, and if the public fully understood what was happening there'd by a revolution."

Now, the fact is, it's pretty much always been that way in politics in most times and places, but certainly not to the incredible extremes we've seen in the last few decades. The level of corruption of both government and mass media has increased to the point of sheer Orwellian lunacy, and the middle class is being wiped out by it.

Voting won't get us out of this, because the political parties are controlled by Big Money. Some other kind of action has to be taken. I hope that it will be peaceful action.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Oct 11 - 07:19 PM

Well, voting Repub certainly won't... BIG MEDIA is owned by them... BIG MEDIA exerted pressure to pack the FCC with Republicans who have done every thing in their power to accommodate Republicans who now control 99% of BIG MEDIA...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Oct 11 - 07:22 PM

". . . and the middle class is being wiped out by it."

You use the present continuous. The past would be more appropriate, imo.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 01:44 AM

Well, yeah, I guess...


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 08:18 PM

An attack by a US unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) has killed at least 78 people and injured 64 others in southern Somalia, Press TV reports.

The Friday attack took place near Qooqani town located in southern Somalia, a Press TV correspondent reported.

In a different incident on Friday, another US drone attack killed 11 civilians and wounded 34 more in Hoosingow district in the south of the country.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/204501.html

High fives in the White House.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 09:00 PM

Gotta love them drones, dontcha? The ones with two legs, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 09:05 PM

http://primaryobamanow.com/

A new website. I voted for Kucinich.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 09:30 AM

"I voted for Obama, but..." the Republicans have (and are now) pig-headedly and self-servingly made it almost impossible for him to get much done on the things he told us he would try to accomplish. And in the relatively few cases where he was able to carry the day despite their determined obstructionist foot-dragging, such as in the health system legislation, they have (and are now) continued to attempt to kill the effectiveness, even though the majority of the US population approve of the individual planks.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 08:10 PM

And you think it wasn't planned that way? What if those 2 parties are just placed there as a "good cop/bad cop" device to lull the electorate into the very false impression that one of them might prove to be your saviour? Why wouldn't they be there for that purpose, considering that they are BOTH funded by a consortium of major corporate entities who are intent on increasing their own profits...at the expense of the general public.

The Democrats are playing the "good cop". They make like they'll treat you "nice", (while setting you up for a big disappointment). This appeals to the people who vote Democratic, because it seems hopeful. It's a dream of achieving progressive change...a dream that is NOT realized when the Democrats get elected.

The Republicans are the "bad cop". They make like they'll get REALLY TOUGH with criminals, terrorists, illegal immigrants, pedophiles, and other boogeymen that a large part of the public is scared of and harbors deep hatred for. This appeals to the people who vote Republican. It sells well in a country that grew up on John Wayne/Clint Eastwood stereotypical heroes and outright worship of the art of WAR. At its heart it's a dream of preserving old traditional values and the traditional white, small-town North American culture...a dream that is NOT realized when the Republicans get elected.

They play you back and forth endlessly between the good cop and the bad cop. When one wears out his welcome, the other one gets voted in. Either way, you lose, they win. The game goes on. The only way to beat them is to abandon that particular game, in my opinion. Stop believing in those 2 cops. They don't work for you. They can't work for you. It's not what they were paid to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 12:00 PM

Little Hawk, I do believe that you are unduly cynical about the views, positions, and actions of the two major parties.

Note that I don't say that your view is TOTALLY false. There are elements which sometimes tempt one to wryly suspect something like that.

But as to "They are BOTH funded by a consortium of major corporate entities who are intent on increasing their own profits...at the expense of the general public," the term "a consortium" claims or at least implies a far greater cohesiveness and organization of big businesses than it's realistic to believe in. And if such a consortium exists, that the contribution therefrom is all or the GREAT majority of the funding of both parties. And that statement claims or at least implies that each of the parties is far more organized and cohesive than they are, as shown by their statements, actions, and a realistic view of human actions and motivations.

And the "good cop/bad cop" equally assumes a conspiracy between the major parties. Only a confirmed conspiracy-demander could buy that.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 01:45 PM

I don't know how well-organized it is. I'm sure there is a good deal of infighting and competition between the major players. Still, I think they they all share certain broad-ranging interests in common and that is why they tend to agree on basic policy such as:

***de-regulating banks to allow the easy creation of vast amounts of phony money***

***protecting specific industries such as the corn-growing industry or the oil industry...

***extending the power of the pharmaceutical industry and regulating many of its natural health competitors out of existence...

I'm saying that they basically agree on a general approach which favors the very rich...and the very LARGE...and enables them to grow even richer....at the expense of their small competitors. It favors large corporate entities, it squeezes out small business.

I don't call that a "conspiracy". I call it a philosophy. An attitude. A way of conducting business. A self-feeding process where the largest players promote any legislation that protects the LARGE and shuts out the small.

Since the major funders have common interests in maintaining that way of conducting business, and since it benefits all of them to a considerable extent, they influence both parties to support and maintain such an approach through legislation.

Thus we have seen de-regulation of the banking system since the Ronald Reagan era, and that de-regulation has grossly inflated the money supply and bankrupted the society. This was a disaster for most people, but it has not been a disaster for the very wealthy. They have done exceedingly well and increased their earnings by a large margin.

Again, I don't call that a "conspiracy"...I call it a philosophy, a set of beliefs, a way of doing business. When you have a situation where words like "liberal" and "socialism" have been demonized to the extent that people in the USA are afraid of them, you have a society dominated by a Far Right corporate philosophical mindbent that perpetuates those policies I'm alluding to. Were the Nazis a conspiracy? No. They were a political philosophy in action...a tragically unhealthy and misdirected political philosophy.

That's what I see guiding the 2 parties in the USA...a tragically unhealthy and misdirected political philosophy, one based primarily on making the most money for those few at the top, one that has resulted in fiscal irresponsibility on a grand scale, and both parties have been complicit in serving that political philosophy, because they are both being funded by it.

For gosh sakes, you don't HAVE a real Left in the USA any longer. There hasn't been a real Left in the USA since the end of the 1960s. What you have is 2 rightwing parties, one that is rabidly rightwing, one that is tepidly rightwing, both of them serving the banking system and the major corporations and the military...both of them engaging in unjust foreign wars fought on the basis of outright lies....both of them forging an overseas empire through military occupation and client regimes.

What do I call that? I call it Fascism. That's what you have in the USA...a 2-party fascist system that is still vainly imagining itself to be "a democracy"...when all it does is choose one or the other wing of the same Eagle of War at 2 to 4 year intervals. The face of the "leader" changes (like changing a mask), but the Eagle of War flies on.

You put your hopes always on the new "leader", but those hopes are in vain. He's just an errand boy, in my opinion. He is not the power, he's the outer face you see...the mask placed in front of the real power. The real power is not one man....it's an imperial philosophy that moves many men, and they are rich men, and they find many willing soldiers among the poor to do their bidding, just as rich men have always done. The rich can hire the poor. They can arm them. They can point them at "the enemy" (the other poor). It has been happening that way for thousands of years. Its epicenter moves around, of course. Once it was in Rome. Once it was in London. Once it was in Madrid. Once it was in Berlin. Once it was in Paris. Now it's in New York and Washington (and London still, I expect).


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 08:42 PM

OBAMA MURDERS 16-YEAR OLD AMERICAN BOY:

The United States has now killed three of its citizens in Yemen in the past month as a result of unmanned aerial strikes carried out by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

Following the deaths in late September of Anwar al-Awlaki, the U.S.-born cleric, and Samir Khan, an al-Qaeda propagandist from North Carolina, an American drone strike on October 14 killed Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, the 16-year-old son of the cleric. At the time, the U.S. government led the media to believe that Abdulrahman was at least 21 years old.

The al-Awlaki family released to the media a copy of Abdulrahman's birth certificate, which shows he was born in Denver, Colorado, in 1995, to disprove the Obama administration's assertion that he was a twenty-something militant. Relatives claim the son was killed while "barbecuing under the moonlight" with other teenagers, including his 17-year-old cousin, who was a Yemeni citizen.

Back on November 5, 2002, a CIA drone strike in Yemen killed another American citizen, Buffalo-born Kamal Derwish, because he was traveling in the same vehicle as the intended target, Abu Ali al-Harithi, a Yemeni accused of being part of the October 12, 2000, attack on the USS Cole.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2164005


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 08:48 PM

Another member of the ObamaHateBrigade steps forward... Has Sawz written all over him/her/trans/etc...

(yawn)

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 08:59 PM

So, you have to love a guy who kills teenagers?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 09:03 PM

Tin foil mythology...

Your guy killed upwards of a million innocent Iraqis...

Join the real world...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 09:11 PM

Actually, Obama is the guy I voted for, as in "I voted for Obama, but..." So why did he kill a 16-year old American in Yemen, and then lie about the kid's age? I'm sure he had a good reason I just haven't heard about yet. Why'd he do it?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 09:51 PM

The post that started this joyous thread:

"Subject: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 06:53 PM

I don't like his warmongering.

Why the hell is he bombing Yemen? And why did he say he didn't need congressional approval to bomb Libya? I hated Bush's baseless wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and Obama's continued those and begun even more."


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 09:51 PM

**He** didn't kill anyone! In armed conflicts and military activities since the beginning of recorded history there are always casualties among the general category of 'innocent bystander'.
   This is not a desirable result, but it is inevitable when adversaries are near military targets...and the most evil try to avoid retribution by BEING near the 'innocent', hoping we softies will not target them!
This is essentially how bin Laden escaped the first time.

SOME leaders of nations and of military units have **intentionally** targeted innocents as part of 'ethnic cleansing' and other weak motivation, but the USA has drastically reduced "collateral damage" in recent years by technology such AS drones.

It is verbal balderdash to try to label anyone in Obama's position as a 'killer'....as if he KNEW there was a 16 year old who was likely to be hit and planned FOR such a death.

Death in war is sad, regrettable, tragic, terrible...and as many other adjectives as you can imagine.... but so is shrugging when those whose avowed purpose is to kill US are running loose!


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 10:09 PM

Thank you, Bill...

I doubt seriously id the wrongerman voted for Obama... Sounds like just another very partisan died-in-the-wool Republican Obama hater who thinks that everyone is stupid and will believe his right wing BS if he prefaces it with "I am a Democrat but" or "I voted for Obama but"...

Very tiresome lie... I've read this line of attack by Obama haters everywhere on the internet and its BS...

I mean, it's okay to have voted for him, like I did, and then criticize an aspect of his policies but to go into the "I voted for..." right into tin foil is a stretch for anyone with an IQ greater than that of a box of animal crackers...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,livelylass
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 10:37 AM

Something for those frustrated by Obama (offered without comment !):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji2ma2mfyhU&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLA57CB565A33D6845


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 11:11 AM

I really, really DO wish those who offer YouTube 'help', without even bothering to make a clickable link, would at least give a general idea of WHAT I am expected to see and how long it is. ¾ of all this sort of thing are either silly or one-sided propaganda.
If it is really informative, tell me what it is about!

Right now, Obama needs support, because the Republicans are doing everything in their power to demonize him!

So help me, if he walked on water, they would accuse him on one hand of "showing off" and on the other of "being afraid to get his feet wet"!

Even if you wonder & worry about the exact tone, methods, timing and progress his administration is making, do remember that he KNOWS what people are saying, and has access to way more data & expert help than most of us sideline kibitzers. Just yesterday he ratcheted up the pressure on the Republican members of Congress by promising to take unilateral action (thru presidential proclamation) to deal with issues they refuse to address.

Sure... go on and speculate about what YOU think needs to be done, but keep in mind that if Obama does not get enough real support for relection, you will get one of **those** Republicans now making stupid statements and acting like born-again clowns!


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 01:22 PM

There is one thing, Bill, that the Republican Party is good at and that is winning/stealing elections... They think that is their only goal... They certainly don't know anything about governing... Or economics... Or science... Or, or, or...

But they sho nuff use their ownership of BIG MEDIA and their massive corporate $$$$ advantage to win/steal elections...

Gotta give the crooks credit for something...

BTW, in South Carolina the Repubs have successfully removed 70,000 older black voters from being able to vote??? These folks crime??? Being born into poor black families at home... Yup, now that's a prime example of just how the Republicans win/steal elections...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 01:50 PM

The big mistake you can make is to put your trust in leaders. We are all leaders and that's what the Occupy Wall Street movement is proving. We are witnessing an American Spring and those who are nay-saying about it, please get out of the way.

The more the police abuse, the stronger the movement grows.

Remember that those leaders who we put in office work for us.

Don't expect Obama or anyone else to do the job. Get out and occupy!

We saw the spin that the mayor's office and the media put on our occupy Atlanta.
The barriers are coming up now in the park, the portapotties have been removed,
the "kettle" is starting to close.

Occupy Atlanta


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 05:55 PM

Agreed! These so-called "leaders" like Obama are empty suits. If he gets replaced by a Republican, that's just another damn empty suit. Be yer own leaders, people, cos the guys in the suits are not servin' YOU at all...they are servin' their main funding sources...and the military-industrial complex. They build bombs and cruise missiles while Main Street dies and yer cities decay. They don't give one banana about yer future.

- Chongo


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 06:13 PM

Agreed, Strings... The Occupy Charlotte movement is doing the same thing with consensus building around issues but it's all done democratically... And if you don't agree, you have an opportunity to argue your opposition position... "This is what democracy looks like" for those who might have missed how it works...

That's what bugs the righties... They don't like what OWS stands for and they hate democracy, to boot... The weird thing is that even though the Paul people are still very much a minority they not only feel welcome but are welcome and seem to be part of the movement... That's cool with me...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 07:18 PM

BTW, 200...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:00 PM

The problem with the killing of al-Awlaki, the child, is that Obama just killed his father. Both of them were American citizens. Obama established his policy of "I can kill any American citizen I want" with the elder al-Awlaki, and then he killed his boy. I honestly DO suspect that Obama had a personal hand in the death of the kid. Obama's proven to be that kind of psycho. He's as nuts as Dubya. And after killing al-Awlaki, the child, Obama's office put out a lie that the kid was 21. As if murdering Americans over 21 is acceptable. And now Obama's shown he's fine with the lynching of blacks in Libya, but that's another tune.

As far as who I voted for, I couldn't vote for McCain. His family's crimes are generational, and Obama DID promise to end the wars. Ending the wars would have fixed our problems internationally and domestically, but then he proved to be a liar. A murdering liar. He's a neocon, continuing the Bush/Cheney policies. And when people say they'll vote for Obama the next time around because of the horrors the Republicans are putting forward, they should be reminded that a vote for Obama is a vote for the continuation of Bush/Cheney.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:07 PM

"Ending the wars would have fixed our problems internationally and domestically"

Might have saved a whole trillion--although I don't see how. That would leave the country 14 trillion in debt. Yippee!

The only people searching for something resembling sanity at this point are supporting OWS.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:10 PM

As a btw, your anti-OWS posts on another thread argued by using garbage information from an ultra-right-wing site don't support your position on this thread. I think you have to decide 'which side you are on'.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:19 PM

Well, I'm not on the side of lies. OWS is being lied to. They're being guided by professional anarchists. To what end? To neuter them as a political force. Why tell people the protestors they're doing mighty work when in reality they're being run around in circles. YOU need to decide.

OWS needs to focus on Wall Street. Effect change now or kiss it goodbye.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:46 PM

Oh bull... This is Lyndon LaRouche thinking... Maybe songwronger is GfinS reinvented ... SSDD... Another pissed off rightie... Who cares??? Lot of them... Our turn... Our discussion... Not yours... Get over it...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 12:15 AM

I don't think so, Bobert.

You're getting paranoid. ;-) You're starting to see GfS everywhere, the way McCarthy saw Communists everywhere. Furthermore, I do not think GfS is a "Rightie" at all, having kept an eye on the many things GfS has posted. GfS is an independent who is well aware of the knee-jerk idiocies that occur costantly on both the Left and the Right, and which lead them to waste their time endlessly dividing the world up into an "us and them" Left/Right paradym which just serves to perpetuate corrupt political frauds like the Democratic and Republican parties.

You won't have a freethinking or genuinely democratic society until those 2 parties are dumped in history's trashcan, in my opinion. I do not believe they are capable of being reformed from within. They WANT you to continue believing in them...as if they were the ONLY alternatives possible. As long as you do that, they've got you right where they want you: mentally enslaved to an obsolete idea that doesn't work (except for the criminal elite at the very top of the money chain).


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 09:17 AM

LOL, LH... I know that SW ain't GfinS... That was meant to be a gentle poke...

As for the 2 parties??? You could have 3, 30 or 300 and it wouldn't matter as long as all it takes to get elected is enough $$$$$... That's one of the things OWS is about... Get the $$$$ out and a lot of this crap goes away... I mean, there is no reason on earth why we don't publicly fund election and give candidates equal microphone time... If that were to occur then Joe Sixpack would vote based on knowledge rather than 24/7 corporate propaganda...

And, for the record... Yeah, I am paranoid... Not of GfinS, bless her misguided heart, but of Boss Hog... He is not only out to get me but the rest of the 99%...

Gotta go...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 11:31 AM

"OWS is being lied to. They're being guided by professional anarchists."

And you know this how?

Oh...I get it- you put 2 and 2 together and got 22.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 12:27 PM

"Professional Antichrists" would be more exciting, wouldn't it? ;-) That would really get people's attention.

I agree, Bobert, that election campaigns should be publicly funded so that all candidates get the same amount of funding from a neutral source...and that they should all get equal microphone and media time. Campaigns should also be shorter and FAR less costly than they are now. That would, indeed, make it an honest process.

(It would not be in the interests of the business and banking elite to do that...nor in the interests of most of the presently elected politicians who I'm sure wish to maintain the status quo...or even increase the monetary benefits that are flowing to them from it as it exists now.)


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 01:00 PM

"... publicly funded so that all candidates get the same amount of funding from a neutral source...and that they should all get equal microphone and media time."

An excellent concept...once you determine how to filter out the thousands of kooks who would call themselves 'candidates' in order to get a free soapbox. There has to be a vetting process of 'some' kind...but then you immediately have to decide who gets to be a vetter.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 01:06 PM

"There has to be a vetting process of 'some' kind...but then you immediately have to decide who gets to be a vetter."

I'm sure the 1% would be willing to take care of that. Hell, they've been doing it for decades. They have experience.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 04:11 PM

I want to hear the 1000 kooks, too, Bill... I mean, if they can get the required number of signatures then let 'um have their 15 minutes of fame/flame...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 04:53 PM

Hey, guys...you want to hear about an electoral system that's fair and honest, that works, that is not corrupted by big money, that does NOT involve any political parties, and that would eliminate the "kooks" Bill is worried about from ever having any bearing on the process?

It's in Cuba. The following article explains how it works. I have been to Cuba. I've spoken to Cubans who are very proud of their electoral system, and I know this article is true. Read it, and consider the value of the grassroots approach they are using in their electoral process.

Cuban election process

Cuban elections are an authentic way for people to participate in the life of the nation.

The Cuban electoral processes take place from the grassroots up in the selection of those who will represent the people at all the levels of government. Local elections are organized to select the municipal delegates (city council members), and general elections take place to choose provincial assembly delegates and the members of the national Parliament. According to Cuban law, these elections are called by the Council of State with no less than 120 days notice.

An element that makes the Cuban electoral system unique is the way candidates are nominated, a process in which individuals nominate those who they think should be candidates.

The process is not done in the name of Communist Party of Cuba or of any other political, mass or social organization, and takes place at urban and rural community meetings where residents select the nominees by raising their hands.

During these meetings, participants propose candidates for the city councils based on their merits as citizens of the community, and their capacity to act as government representatives.In each electoral district the maximum number of candidates is eight with a minimum of two. From these, people elect by secret ballot the city council representative from their neighborhood or community.

The correct functioning of the electoral system resides precisely in the high participation at local meetings. This an essential element of the Cuban democracy, sustained by a government of the people, by the people and for the people, as national hero, Jose Marti, and US President Abraham Lincoln proposed.

Voting is not mandatory in Cuba, but it is a right of all eligible citizens, who when going to the polls have only to show their national identity card. According to Cuban law, only the mentally disabled and persons serving time in prisons or under house arrest are not allowed to vote.

Among other aspects of interest to foreign observers is the fact that 16 year olds have the right to elect and be elected and that members of the armed institutions are also able to vote. In the case of the military the right to vote is unique in Latin America, with the exception of Venezuela in 2004.

The absence of military patrols in the streets on election days is something that captures the attention of visiting members of parliaments and other public figures invited to observe elections taking place in Cuba.

Military personnel are not on duty at the polling stations, because school children are the ones that guard the ballot boxes.

At the very moment that elections are called, electoral commissions are created at the national, provincial and municipal levels, formed by citizens known for their praiseworthy work records.

The only pre-condition to be a member of the electoral commissions is to have the right to vote.

Voting is voluntary, secret and direct, and vote counting is done in public. Foreign diplomats and observers can also witness the process.

In order to be elected, a candidate must win more than 50 percent of the votes.
Today's Cuban electoral system is very different from the one that operated here prior to 1959, when the system of voter registration allowed for "miracles" such as deceased persons voting and for others to cast more than one ballot.

Elderly Cubans recall the dirty tricks used by politicians who withheld voter registration documents, where you could read a statement saying that voting was mandatory for all citizens.

The ethical standards that are part of the Cuban electoral process today explicitly prohibit political campaigns to convince voters choose a specific candidate or to attack the prestige of an opponent.

The delegates, who form part of the municipal People's Power Assemblies, have to provide voters with a yearly report of their activities and receive absolutely no payment for their work as council persons.

The most recent electoral process to elect municipal, and provincial delegates and members of the national Parliament, ended with a voter turnout of 95.75 percent to elect the municipal and provincial delegates, and a 97.61 percent turnout when the elections for the national Parliament took place.

The low abstention in Cuban elections compares very favorably with what happens in many so called First World elections. A shining example is the United States of America, where in order to elect George W. Bush as President in the year 2000, only thirty seven percent of voting age citizens went to the polls.


I have discussed this election process with some very bright, well educated Cubans who are proud of their society and believe in it. They spoke to me of how they have stood up in their own community meeting and nominated the man or woman they most respected in their community...the person they had direct personal knowledge of and confidence in...and how that person sometimes did go on to be the one elected to represent the community in the local government or the national parliament.

They said that only the brightest and the best get nominated, and only the brightest and the best get elected. The kooks don't make it in a system like that, Bill, because who the heck is gonna vote for them? The people who get elected are those who have already proven themselves to the majority of people in their own community. Money plays no part in that process. What plays a part is how much other people admire and respect you based on your character, your ideas, and your past achievements that have benefited the community.

I've never seen a more idealistic and highly motivated people than the Cubans are...and their electoral process reflects that.

Think about it. Think what a change like that could do for the honesty of OUR political process.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 04:58 PM

You a commie now, 'er what, LH???

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 05:04 PM

Where does the 99% come from Bob?

I worked out that those of us who really want to change the system are in the minority.... by at least 20% to 80%.

Hawk is right, folks are not desperate enough, too many have still too much to lose.

This thread should prove to you that most people still erroneously believe that the system can be repaired. It cannot....though it may return one day when our population is reduced to third world status.

Continually insisting that we are a majority is really counter productive.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 05:29 PM

The 99% are the folks not in the top 1%, ake... They call it arithmetic, I think...

Actually, the system can be repaired... Chances of that happening are slim but it could happen if enough people joined the OWS movement... I mean, it could get a tad messy but the framework is there for a working democracy...

We just need a couple Constitutional amendments:

1. All elections will be funded with general tax revenues for any candidate who gets 5% of the voters in his or her district to sign a petition asking that that candidate name be placed on the ballot.

2. All federal and state voting districts will be drawn by an independent and international commission working under the auspices of the United Nations...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 05:37 PM

What I saw in Cuba was not what I would call Communism, Bobert. It was more like what I would call social responsibility, community spirit, common sense, and sanity. I saw decisions being based on benefiting the common good rather than on who can secure a windfall profit out of that decision.

You can run a system on greed and selfishness. That`s the present North American system. Such systems eventually fall under the weight of their own corruption.

You can run a system on securing the common good. That`s the Cuban system.

The fact that it is supposedly Communism is beside the point. There have been numerous Communist systems that did anything BUT secure the common good, because they were run for the benefit only of a ruthless militaristic elite at the very top. That is not the case with the Cuban system. The Cuban system has a genuine sense of public responsibility built into its social institutions and applied right at the community level, and the people feel empowered by it to affect their own destiny directly through the ballot box.

That`s hardly the case here, and you can tell by the lacklustre turnout these days in Canadian and American elections.

The Cuban system IS the kind of real democracy that was envisioned a very long time ago by the original founders of the USA, in my opinion. It`s community town hall politics in action...power to the people!...unpolluted by political parties, corporate lobbyists, and the use of deliberate character assassination of one`s fellow candidates as a ladder to personal power.

What they are doing in Cuba puts our political process to shame.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 05:40 PM

I know all about Cuba, LH... I had friends who went every year to help bring in the sugar cane... I have no problems with the Cuban system... It is alot fairer than what we have ...

Bob


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 05:55 PM

Ok, Little Hawk...that IS, on paper, a sensible way to 'filter out the kooks'. It is probably even 'fairly' efficient. I would have to study the details and observe how it works in practice in various US states, but that is the basic type system I'd like to see. I do suspect that in Cuba under Castro, there were ways the system had to keep 'reformers' from getting too uppity, and I have NO doubt that places like Texas would not care for certain aspects of it.

You say "The people who get elected are those who have already proven themselves to the majority of people in their own community.". I suggest that various US communities will have widely differing standards of what they support. Can you imagine how some racist Southern areas would 'adjust' that system to suit old prejudices?
I also wonder just how we'd go about changing TO a 'sensible' system when so many have so much invested in defending a NON-sensible system that they already manipulate.

Still, I again note that I approve of the basic concept.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 06:31 PM

Good stuff, Bill. No system is perfect, but the Cuban system has some very good ideas about how to run an electoral process, and I wish my country and yours were doing THAT particular thing in a similar manner.

I see things in many other countries which I admire...which doesn`t mean I think they are better in everything...just in that specific matter, that`s all. There`s no country which will ever be able to justly boast that it is `the best country in the world`....or `the greatest country in the world`...but one hears that vain boast from some countries! All nations have their own special gifts. What would be best is if they could learn from each other and share in the best ideas they`ve got. If so, we`d all be farther ahead.

I`d like to see the influence of Big Money gotten out of North American politics. So would everyone else who posts here.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Myself
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 02:44 AM

What the hell does this have to do with MUSIC?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 03:01 AM

What's it have to do with music?
Nothing.

I'm glad we established a BS (non-music) section of the forum. At one time, the music stuff tended to get lost amidst the chit-chat. Now that they're separate, it's OK with me. I stay in the music section mostly. I feel safer there.....usually.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 04:17 AM

"What the hell does this have to do with MUSIC?"

This has as much to do with music as your question. Joe Offer can tell you how to avoid the BS section.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 08:47 PM

The black flag of Al Qaeda was hoisted in Libya yesterday as Nato formally ended its military campaign.

The standard fluttered from the roof of the courthouse in Benghazi, where the country's new rulers have imposed sharia law since seizing power.

Seen as the seat of the revolution, the judicial building was used by rebel forces to establish their provisional government and media centre.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055630/Flying-proudly-birthplace-Libyas-revolution-flag-Al-Qaeda.html

October 27, 2011 "Press TV" -- On Thursday, 13 people were killed and several others were injured when the US military launched an attack using a remote-controlled unmanned aerial vehicle on the outskirts of Bilis Qooqaani town, which is located 448 kilometers (278 miles) southwest of the Somali capital Mogadishu.

The US also launched drone strikes on the outskirts of Afmadow city, situated in the middle of the Juba region and 620 kilometers (385 miles) south of Mogadishu, on Thursday. At least 25 people were killed in the aerial attack.

In addition, six people were killed in a non-UN-sanctioned US drone attack on Pakistan's South Waziristan tribal region near the border with Afghanistan.

According to Pakistani officials, two unmanned aircraft fired six missiles at a vehicle traveling through Tura Gula village in the Azam Warsak area on Thursday.

Three people were also killed in attacks carried out by unmanned US aircraft in southern Yemen on Thursday.

A Yemeni government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that the drone strikes targeted Shaqra village in Abyan Province. He added that six people were also injured in the aerial attacks.

The US says its remote-controlled unmanned drones only target militants. However, reports have shown that most of the people killed in the drone strikes are civilians.


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29532.htm

Obama needs to be removed from office. Where are the anti-war liberals now? Obama needs to be pressured (grassroots pressure through elected representatives) to resign. This is one of the reasons that Occupy Wall Street was organized, to take attention away from the worst-performing president in U.S. history. Remove Obama now, before he unleashes drones on Americans and turns the country over to al Qeada.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 09:00 PM

OWS wasn't organized to get Obama to resign... Maybe that what songwronger wants but I haven't heard anyone at OccupyCharolotte saying that is what OWS is about... Not one... Might of fact, in all my reading of the Washington Post that hasn't been mentioned as a goal of OWS...

Leads me to believe that songwronger has his agenda and OWS theirs...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 09:17 PM

So you speak for OWS now? You insisted that they shouldn't have an agenda, so is this why? So that you can claim their agenda to be whatever you want?

OWS is a pressure valve. Anti-war Democrats should be working to remove Obama from office, to give a viable candidate a chance in the next election, but no, they're focused on "no agenda." Mad about "the 1%" but won't get specific.

Meanwhile, Obama murders in your name. Do you support his killing of children? Either you do or you don't. Either you speak out about it or you keep quiet about it and thereby become complicit in the murders.

Which is it? Do you approve of the killing? Do you approve of al Qeada taking control of Libya so they can lynch blacks? Either you do or you don't.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 09:25 PM

If you have inside info that OWS wants Obama to resign, spill it, songwronger...

If you think that Obama's resignation would benefit America then please, I beg of you, walk us thru (in detail) how that is going to help America...

I'll wait on your response...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 09:37 PM

I suspect you've been so brainwashed by the "no agenda" agenda of OWS that you're being defensive about this. I didn't say OWS was trying to oust Obama. I said they NEED to work on that. But of course they won't because they're Soros-funded.

Do you, like, put a notch on a stick for every hundred that Obama kills? Every thousand? And are you cool with the lynching of blacks in Libya? Obama made that possible. You okay with that?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 09:40 PM

Never mind answering about the killing and the lynching. You evaded the question, thereby engaging in complicity. You're okay with the slaughter of civilians and the lynching of blacks. So is Obama, which I find odd for a black Peace Prize winner.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 09:45 PM

You suspect wrong...

Where are these OWS folks who are pushing for Obama to resign???

I don't need your high-horse horse shit... The facts will do just fine...

If you hate Obama, fine... That's your right and prerogative... The US has much larger problems than Obama... Obama is a side show... Why you would make Obama the focus of your hatred is your problem... Not mine... Not OWS...

Them is reality... Don't like it??? Tough... Go back to what ever OWS you are at and try to get them to make Obama the BIG ISSUE... Good luck!!!

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 09:58 PM

Soros funded? You wanta discuss Koch funded? Or anonymous funded because of "Citizen United"?

You, 'wronger', set up so many 'straw men' in your assertions that once you define all those premises, you could argue up is down.

Basic principle: "From false premises, anything follows."


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 10:11 PM

The wondrous thing about OWS is that it is inclusive...

The downside is that in doing that it get's all the wackos...

Songwronger wants to pontificate and then say "never mind answering" as in "flight" from this discussion as if his/her hatred of Obama isn't the issue that I have brought up...

I mean, I have been on the front lines of the civil rights movement so there is nothing that is going to mess with me at this point in my life... Not Obama haters... Not folks trying to play ballgames with OWS... I have been to every OWS event (with the exception of one) and I don't hear what songwronger thinks is what the OWS movement is about...

We had folks like songwronger back in the 60s who were clueless... They had their own agendas... If we were trying to organize an anti-war demonstration we were called "pigs" by folks who were more interested in some things going down at the Phillip-Morris plant (true story)...

I mean, if anyone wants to hate Obama then hate away... That's the beauty of living in this country... We have an equal-hatred country... That's songwrongers right... It's also my right to call him on it when he/she uses a movement much larger than his/her hate of Obama as his shield...

OWS ain't about Obama resigning... That is fact...

OWS has a much different agenda than that...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 10:13 PM

Obama fucked both of you, and you love it. Why is that? I find the psychology curious.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 10:28 PM

Hey, I am not in love with Obama... I see our scenario as a complete clusterfuck... Abandon Obama and get what??? "What" scares the hell out of me more than Obama...

Where is Plan B???

I'm serious... where is Plan B???

If ya'll got it and think it is doable than fine... Put it out there...

Until then, I'll just do my little OWS thing (drummer) and the hopes of changing enough people's thinking of corporations as our "friends" (haha) and the folks who provide us good jobs (haha)...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 10:50 PM

Plan B is to quit buying the corporations' goddam lawn mowers, for one thing. You buy a mower and then go out and agitate for anarchy?

You and I created the Obama problem and we need to fix it. Write your rep and senator. Tell them the Big O has Got to Go. I don't give two shits if you want to play drummer boy, but you have a duty to undo the mess you helped make by putting that psycho in office.

But you won't do anything about that. You'll say that the mass-murdering Obama is better than the devil we don't know, and Limbaugh's out to get us and all that. Comfort politics.

Signing off.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 09:43 AM

Oh, quit buying stuff is Plan B... I buy responsibly because not buying is not an option for you or for me... I recycle, I grow my own food and can it, I heat partially with wood and cut and split it myself... Yes, it would be nice if we just bartered everything but this is the real world and not Alice in Wonderland...

No thanks to your Plan B, songwronger...

BTW, do you buy stuff??? A simple yes of no will do just fine...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 01:02 PM

In fairness Songwronger, Obama was most unwilling to become involved in Libya...He was weak in allowing himself to be pushed by Hillary the Hawk.

As far as Libya is concerned the guilty parties are the UK snd France, who bulldosed a false resolution through the United Nations.
Also guilty of cowardice are the Governments of Russia and China, who refused to use their veto.

I said right from the start that supporting the action in Libya was a serious mistake.

Hope Bobad is happy to see the black flag, He was warned often enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 05:19 PM

"My kind of loyalty was loyalty to one's country, not to its institutions or its office-holders." — Mark Twain

Well I just couldn't wait to vote for Obama..so bad..almost peed my drawers, just waitin' in line....even though I knew darn well he was a lyin' son of a bitch....!

But he's going to make it alright!!..or at least 'legal'.....(must be that 'Fast and Furious' thingy....sorta like the Republican's version of Hassenfus's C5-A, that got shot down runnin' guns for drugs....)

Obama just hates lying.....shit, he did it before..just to be elected!!

..and all that just to protect a program started by Bush?? SENIOR!!!??

And STILL they find nothing fishy!..Quick!..Call the spin doctors!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 05:25 PM

Ya' know what, folks... I wish I had a dollar fro every time some dumb sumabich leads yet another Obama-hate-rant with one of the two following outright lies:

1. I voted for Obama but...

or

2. I'm a Democrat but...

I mean, these morons must think that everyone out there is as dumb as they are to believe that utter crap... I don't even read folks crap that begin that way because if the first 4 or 5 words are an out right lie than I know what is going to follow...

If you hate Obama fine... I respect that... Just don't bullshit me with lies right out of the gate... It's insulting to anyone with an IQ greater than that of a box of animal crackers...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 05:34 PM

Well, the party starts all over again on January 10, 2012 (just two months time) in New Hampshire.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 05:57 PM

Well, I asked for a 'SPIN DOCTOR' and look who answers the call!!

You KNOW I didn't vote for that jerk, I had him clocked a LONG way back!
Nor was I about to pee my drawers....but you seemed unable to distinguish 'bullshit humor', and the truth....and that explains why you still love, and DID vote for the puppet! You just didn't see his ventriloquist!

..Oh, and your spin to try to get out of 'rationalizing' this new keeping of a promise of 'transparency'...is nothing short of 'revealing'...and laughable!

Now, come on now....you can 'shape shift' out of THIS one......AGAIN....(maybe you can consult with your co-operative, Don).

Are you sure you two aren't on the 'payroll'??

Winking,
GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 12:24 AM

Yes akenaton the Libyan adventure was primarily French and British, but Sarkozy and Cameron didn't win the Nobel Peace Prize, dammit. Obama fired off 110 cruise missiles as an opening salvo to show his "good will" to the NATO effort. What kind of psycho would do that?

And what kind of psychos would support a politician who behaves like that? The Obama supporters in the U.S. have been profoundly brainwashed. They keep clinging to the Hope and Change rhetoric and refuse to acknowledge what the guy's actually doing. Look at the Little Drummer Boy here, on this thread, talking about how there are bigger things to worry about than Obama right now. That kind of behavior shames drummer boys in kindergarten Christmas pageants all over the nation.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 02:40 PM

Well, actually, there ARE bigger things to worry about than Obama...worry about the corporate puppetmasters who make him dance on the strings. He's just temporary. They aren't. Corporations are potentially immortal in the present legal system. And no one gets to vote either for or against them. And they normally control BOTH presidential candidates and BOTH parties through the power of their money and their business connections, so whichever party wins....the system as it is endures with little alteration in its basic approach to things, which is: Wage war, build an overseas empire through invasion and blackmail, increase domestic surveillance, conduct "false flag" attacks when necessary to get the public to support your imperial policy, export jobs, increase corporate and banking profits, reduce social services, curtail civil rights, and bail out the crooks and banksters at the top of the money chain so the rich can get richer at the expense of the rest of society.

Obama is just 4 more years of George Bush, that's all. What has really changed, aside from the "friendly face" and the noble-sounding rhetoric?

And how do they keep you distracted? By dividing you up into Democratic and Republican voting blocs and setting you at each other's throats every 2 years, that's how. It works like a charm. You get completely lost in the partisan battles and give all your power away to an amoral plutocracy that is loyal to nothing but its own greed.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 04:08 PM

Yes Hawk, but remember how we were villified on Mudcat for saying that before the election?

Now all the Obama supporteters are flocking to the latest BIG THING....protest!.....what a joke, people like you and I have been protesting all our lives while the supporters of the system told us we were whiners

This is another diversion...Its perfectly simple, people have to re-learn self sufficiency, forget political allegencies, stop creating idiotic laws and "rights"....start to demolish Capitalism, its going to take a helluva long time, so we better start quick.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 05:15 PM

". . . nattering nabobs of negativism."
                                  —Spiro Agnew
Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 05:48 PM

OWS = One BIG ASS vote against the corporations and the biggest vote going back before most of us were born...

SO, Ake you and LH done your protesting time and now retired???

Uh huh???

If you are the communists you say you are then you should be a OWSWer...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 09:14 PM

Picture of a pistol on the banner above this thread's title. Hmm.

Yes, there are bigger things to worry about than Obama, but it's irksome when the people who are responsible for him won't take responsibility. Obama's actions have led to the lynchings of blacks in southern Libya under the newly-installed al Qeada government there, but Democrats won't even talk about that. CAN'T talk about it because their Pavlovian conditioning won't allow it. Irksome.

And meanwhile, Obama falls forward. To take our minds off the disaster that he's become, he continually gives us bigger and bigger messes that need to be dealt with. The financial mess right now, and soon WW3. Always Fall Forward when you're in trouble. Makes me think of Alec Baldwin in Glengary Glen Ross, giving his "Always be closing" lecture to a bunch of dull salesmen. Obama as Baldwin, "You want to know who I am, you son of a bitch? I'm the guy that had a twenty percent approval rating so I just bombed the shit out of Libya, that's who I am. Who the fuck are you? Always fall forward."

Bush should have been removed from office for his crimes, and now Obama should be removed from office. The Bushes, Clinton and Obama have given us a presidency that's above the law, and it needs to stop. Obama just crossed the Rubicon in a big way by killing an American father-son pair in Yemen. Two different drone bombing attacks used to establish that the president can now kill indiscriminately, even American citizens, even children.

Obama needs to be removed from office as an example. He's degraded the office to an unacceptable degree. Whatever other catastrophes are going on in the world will still be going on after he's gone, but first we need to remove our mass-murdering president. As a signal.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 09:19 PM

"Obama needs to be removed from office as an example."

By whom?

And replaced with whom?

And how are you going to bring that about?

All reasonable questions.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 09:31 PM

Songwronger hasn't thought those things thru, Don... I mean, I think songwronger has no real comprehension of history or political science or reality...

Guess the long-in-the-toothers understand those things because of what we have come thru...

I mean, what would this country look like if every time you turned around there was a major push to replace the president because people were pissed off over this or that...

Silly me... That was what the 90's were about... The Republicans tried to impeach him even before he was sworn in... Spent $50M of our tax dollars trying to find dirt on him over White Water... Couldn't find shit... Then they lucked into Monika Lewisnski... That was pure luck so they impeached (not removed) him for a blow job???

Most expensive blow job in history... $50,000,000 of out tax dollars worth of blow job!!!

I mean, lets get real here... If we aren't going to look like banana republic then we need to quit this mentality... Bush??? Different story... No blow job... Juts killed a million people... That's for the World Court... That's war crimes...

Obama??? Inherited two very hot wars... He's done the best he can with the hand that Bush left him to play out... That's not on Obama... That is reality...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 04:35 PM

"If we aren't going to look like banana republic then we need to quit this mentality"

Even worse is looking like a banana republic--with no bananas.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 04:41 PM

Oh, man...I can't resist answering this one... ;-)

"Obama needs to be removed from office as an example."

By whom?

By a mob of enraged apes and monkeys!

And replaced with whom?

Chongo Chimp, of course! Who else?

And how are you going to bring that about?

By acclamation. Or if that fails, by a November putsch that rocks Washington and puts a REAL chimp in the White House! (not an ersatz chimp imitator like we had back in 2000-2008)

All reasonable questions.

Indeed, Don. And I have answered them. ;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 05:20 PM

Bruce says we are not going to have any bananas at the rate we are going, LH... That happen and Chongz gonna up and quit... You want that???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 06:15 PM

Thank you, Little Hawk.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 06:53 PM

A looming banana crisis would probably upset Chongo as much as anything possibly could, Bobert. I predict that this rumor will only serve to give greater impetus to his already wellnigh unstoppable campaign.

I also want to add that I would have voted for Obama (with some reservations) back in 2008 if I could have...and I was very glad that he won and McCain lost...but I have not been at all well impressed by his performance once in office. Still, I'm not surprised by that. I kind of suspected it would turn out this way...though I dearly hoped that it might not. And how would it have turned out with McCain in the White House? Probably even worse! But we'll never know for sure. Anyway, I don't think McCain had any chance whatsoever of winning after 8 mind-numbing years of George Bush. It was time for the "bait and switch" boys who fund the Big Two to do the old switcheroo, which is what always happens when one of the 2 mega-parties has utterly worn out its welcome with the American public. The other one is then ushered in (by corporate funding) as the supposed saviour who will make everything right again! (which they most certainly are not, and they will NOT do)

And then the whole process starts over again from the beginning.

It's a lot like that in Canada too. And in the UK. And, I suspect, in most of the western world. Elections are empty and costly propaganda shows put on to distract the general public and make them think they can significantly change the way their government functions. They could too, if the political parties were really serving the general public....but they aren't...they are serving their major sources of funding, and that's not the general public. It's the banks and the big business community.

The odd maverick like Dennis Kucinich sincerely tries to fight back against what's happening. The corporates' way of dealing with people like Dennis Kucinich is:

A. don't fund them
B. see that they get very little mass media coverage
C. use gerrymandering (re-drawing voting districts) to destroy their electability when the next election comes around. There have been repeated attempts to nullify Dennis's support by redrawing the voting districts around Cleveland in such a way as to split up the areas that tend to support him so he will lose the votes of many of his most loyal supporters, and thereby lose his seat in the next election.

Option "C" is a game both the Democrats and Republicans have played throughout their history, and it has resulted in some hilariously illogical boundaries to voting districts, cleverly designed to help either one party or the other. Both parties are utterly lacking in shame when it comes to these sort of dishonest shenanigans. Both parties would, I think, be delighted to end Dennis Kucinich's political career, so they are probably fairly well agreed on the gerrymandering when it comes to his particular district. The Republicans don't want him. The Democratic Party bosses would be pleased not to have him either.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 07:07 PM

The Republican state house has gerrymandered the Congressional districts in a manner that is going to make Dennis Kucinich's re-election doubtful, LH...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 08:51 PM

Yup. Dennis has been sending out emails to his supporters about that for some time now. I'm on his email list, even though I cannot vote for him. I wish I could.

It's truly disgusting, this gerrymandering nonsense, but there is apparently no legal provision in place to prevent the party which is in power from doing it...so of course, they do it.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Goose Gander
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 01:31 AM

yes, we have no bananas.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 03:00 AM

Great article on gerrymandering at the below link. Maps included.

http://www.theawl.com/2011/07/gerrymandered-u-s-a


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 07:45 AM

Given the options, it probably has to be Obama, I guess. However, with gerrymandering and voter suppression, and the looming lack of enthusiasm among young voters who were key to his election, his re-election is in doubt. Hoping the Repubs don't nominate someone who is certifiable. But so far, they don't show such an inclination.

Saul


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 09:14 AM

I'm surprised that the that website didn't have the 7th district in Virginia which is where Eric Cantor is from... In order to get Cantor (or a Cantor-type) elected the Republican statehouse gerrymandered that so as to disenfranchise Richmond voters (Dems) by snaking the district north thru parts of Henrico, Hanover, Caroline, Orange, Rappahanock counties and then settling in the Republican rich Page County... The district is well over 100 miles long... If Eric Cantor had to win in the the city he lives (Richmond) he would never get elected...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 12:03 PM

I see its party Politics as usual .....so much for the new protest movement.

Here is a piece from a proper journalist on why we are, where we are.

Mathew Parriss


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 12:43 PM

Both of those 2 parties are equally unscrupulous about gerrymandering districts to manipulate the vote. The odd thing is that their supporters only seem to notice (and to complain) when it's the other party that does the gerrymandering! ;-D

That's why I want to see ALL political parties cease to exist. We would be far better off if there were no political parties and we voted for nothing but independent, non-partisan candidates who were funded equally by public funds, and who got equal air time to present their views, and who were NOT allowed to make personal attacks on other candidates, but merely to present their own views and ideas on policy when running for office.

Like in Cuba. Yup. That is how it's done in Cuba, and it results in fair, decent, honorable, and democratic elections...that cost a tiny fraction of what ours do. This is how Cubans elect both their local officials and their national assembly.

No school-age child in the USA ever hears one honest word about the Cuban system.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 02:14 PM

You know, I read a lot of people here on these threads saying that the United States should get rid of the two-party system because it is corrupt. I don't argue that particular point.

BUT—

I don't read anyone's suggestions as to how U. S. citizens are supposed to go about ending the two-party system.

Like the kibitzer who stands behind you in a card game and keeps saying, "Play the ace! Play the ace!" when you don't HAVE any aces.

Can we hear some practical, realistic suggestions?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: pdq
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 03:28 PM

Speaking about gerrymandering, check out this cute little district in California...


                                                                     CA-23


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 04:05 PM

That is a hilarious example, pdq! ;-)

Don - It's very hard to know what to suggest Americans should do...other than NOT continuing to believe in and back the existing 2-party system. If enough people stop believing in it, it will eventually cease to be viable or sustainable, and something else will take its place.

Asking people to provide an immediate solution to your present 2-party system is kind of like asking people in Germany in 1941 to provide an immediate solution to the Nazi Party...or the war. It's like asking people to provide an immediate solution to the very bad dietary habits that most North Americans are presently accustomed to: consuming inordinate amounts of junk food and sugar and legal drugs and white flour products.

I mean, heck, you can certainly point out what's gone wrong, and it's plain to see...but do you really think that a hundred million sheep are going to immediately change their past habits and stop doing what's bad for them?

No. A few will change. The rest will fall prey to inertia and habit (and fear of change), and will keep doing as they have done in the past. And presently a few more will change. Eventually enough people will change, and the old systems and old ways will collapse and give way to something new.

The main thing that I see occurring which does give me some hope is the OWS movement, because it's not trying to work within the old system. I think we have to see something entirely new, something like what swept the old Soviet Union out of existence at the end of the 1980s, and it will come through millions of individual people taking power by empowering their own lives and trusting themselves to make change rather than by relying on corrupt old political party machines and party "leaders" to do it for them.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 05:10 PM

I have come to distrust the UN more than the US.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: pdq
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 05:22 PM

The odd boundries of CA-23 could be legitimate.

The legislators were just trying to get a safe Congressional district for sand dabs.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 05:55 PM

Did you mean "sand crabs"?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: pdq
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 06:04 PM

I'll take a chance that this is worth watching...


                                                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYq1t_sZi6g


My ancient computer doesn't "do" YouTube.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: gnu
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 06:18 PM

Not to be tooo negative, but, no.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 06:16 PM

Obama is continuing the Afghan fiasco, tepidly acknowledging the economic woes of our country but not mentioning OWS by name or living up to his promise to put on tennis shoes and join the Wisconsin protests as Scott Walker tries to gut the union and shut people out of the statehouse. The Wisconsin Senate has voted to allow concealed weapons into the Statehouse (GOP naturally) and to ban all photographic equipment and picket signs.
Fascism comes to Wisconsin while Obama says nothing about it.

As to bring home troops from Iraq, the malevolent contractors who outnumber the military are in place as well as the grotesque military base there.

Now he endorses the "gang of 12" and that's just what they are as the Democrats on the committee give away Medicare and Medicaid in their opening negotiating gambits.

I call Obama now Audacity of Hoax.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 08:47 PM

I call him 4 more years of George Bush, only he talks much more intelligently...but it's still just 4 more years of Bush as far as I'm concerned. I suspect that is because Obama really works for almost exactly the same consortium of corporate/military/imperial/banking interests that Bush did.

This is how 2 political parties are used to maintain a corrupt Oligarchy. It's simple: the Oligarchy funds both of them, and they dutifully follow its orders once in office, work with its lobbyists, and very effecfively use their supporters' mutual hatred of one another to keep people divided and distracted from what's really going on.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 09:02 PM

I call him trying to get to a 2nd term where anyone with any progressive ideas knows is where they can be laid out... A 2nd term Obama can be a progressives dream... This is raw politics, folks, against Boss Hog sitting on $2T in cash to defeat him... For Obama to show all his cards now would be suicidal and bad for any chance the progressives have in ever bringing about any progressive change...

Give the man a break...

He may very well be the Trojan Horse but, even if he isn't, who realistically is going to be the next president that has any chance of getting the progressive ball further down the field???

If you can't answer those questions then get off his back...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 10:55 PM

Obama's not progressive. He's regressive.

He's killed NASA's manned spaceflight ventures. Made Americans earthbound for the first time in decades.

He's put Social Security on the table for cutting. A second term would mean he goes ahead and cuts it, because he doesn't have to worry about re-election.

He's widened the wars, after saying he'd end them.

He's become the first American president to openly kill Americans.

He gave his backers half a billion dollars with the Solyndra scam and then said he doesn't need to justify his actions.

His administration's been caught running guns into Mexico. People died because of it.

He stabbed his environmental supporters in the back with the Keystone pipeline deal.

He capped British Petroleum's outlays at $20 billion dollars. The media reported that BP was being FINED, but in truth Obama saved them trillions in cleanup costs with the $20 billion cap.

Oh, and he helped install al Qeada as the governing body in Libya, and he's fine with lynching blacks in that country.

I never said I'm a Democrat. I'm an independent, moderate. I held my nose and voted for Obama because he said he would end the wars. He had no decades-long history of lying like Songbird McCain did, so I went with Obama.

But now I know he's a continuation of the Bush/Cheney/Rice neo-conservatism. We've been under the rule of the neo conservatives since Bush I took office, at least. While Limbaugh says "we're becoming" a socialist country, we're moving past socialism into fascism. We've BEEN socialist since FDR's day, and now Obama (under left-wing cover) is dismantling the last of the socialist programs. His Obamacare is an attempt to turn over all healthcare to a handful of private providers. Fascism.

I suspected this might happen, but I also thought that Democrats would spot it for what it was. But they're still fixated on skin color. Go figure.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 11:15 PM

Songwronger...

Rather than tell us why you hate Obama why not tell us your plan...

Or just shut up and join the real world... I mean, there are millions of things happening every day in the US government... You want Obama to stay on top of every one of them... That is impossible... You didn't vote for him... You are a Republican troll or an loonie anarchist.. Don't much matter to me... You have shot your wad here... Get into the real world...

I mean, you can be an OWSer and have a grasp of reality... It's very possible if you take the hatred of Obama and put it where it belongs... On Boss Hog where it belongs...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 11:20 PM

I don't think they're fixated on skin color as much as fixated on the fact that he's one of theirs instead of being a despised Republican, Songwronger. Sure, skin color may play some part in many Democrats' idealistic notions about Mr Obama's supposed altruism, after being prepared for such idealism by decades of watching feelgood movies about noble blacks fighting the lonely fight against racism, just like all those other movies we've seen about noble gays, noble Native Americans, noble suffering women, and anyone else handy who serves as a symbolic way of allowing millions of guilty whites to expiate their crushing (imagined) burden of shared historical guilt and feel a little better about themselves, etc...

But the main thing for his diehard supporters is merely this: He's NOT a blood-sucking Republican!!!!!!!!! ;-)

My guess is that Bobert would be defending Al Gore, John Kerry, Hilary Clinton, or any other elected Democratic president if they had been elected in 2008 instead of Obama, and with the same touching but (in my opinion) naive loyalty that he is showing for Mr Obama.

It's because he is so horrified at the thought of the Republicans returning to office (and I'll admit it definitey horrifies me too...)! Obama's just GOT to be the Trojan Horse candidate who will turn things around, you see...or my pal Bobert's got NOTHING to hope for in the next 5 years!

I sympathize with your plight, Bobert. Everyone wants some kind of hope to look forward with. I can understand why you are still clinging to the hope that Obama will prove to be a genuine progressive.

I don't have any hope that he will. Not a shred. Not any longer. I have no hope in either the Democratic Party or the Republican Party...but I don't get to vote for those guys anyway.

Good thing. I'd hate to think I'd helped either one of them get into office.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 11:45 PM

No, LH... Obama was the first Dem I voted for since Jimmy Carter...

As for reality??? The Dems, like they did in the 60s with the Civil Rights Act put their balls on the line with the Affordable Care Act... They knew that it was going to cost them... Boss Hog made his wishes very clear... He was going to throw more money at the 2010 elections at Tea Party morons as it took... No one is allowed to know how much because the Supreme Court says it "none of your business"...

Given the massive conspiracy between the corporations and the Republican Party it's not unreasonable to take on the closest enemy...

This isn't about Dems as much as it is going after the worst of the bad...

Pragmatism...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 12:38 AM

Obama IS Boss Hog. Or Hoss Bog. Big dude on Bonanza by way of Blazing Saddles.

And Democrats are fixated on race. How many hundreds of times have views critical of Obama been marked up to racism since he got into office? More than anyone can count. Endlessly parroted. Democrats were told to answer all criticisms with the racism mantra the way that supporters of Israel are told to play the anti-semite card. It's tiresome and tedious. No one buys it anymore, except a few scared democrats.

Democrats have been hogtied by political correctness, and moderate America has given them their chance. Backlash will now be to more out in the open fascism, I guess, then back to some hidden fascism, then open, hidden. Sure get tired of people rooting for their teams.

Dan Blocker and Cleavon Little. Knew the names would come to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 12:51 AM

Who exactly were you voting for in the years between Carter and Obama, Bobert? (just wondering) Was it 3rd party candidates? Or Republicans?

I know you think it's pragmatism to vote for Obama instead of for the Republicans, whoever they come up with...but what makes you think the corporates are ONLY engaged in "a massive conspiracy" with just the Republicans? Seems to me that both parties are included in that massive conspiracy you are referring to, and that the corporates have them both firmly in their pocket.

They just use the fact that there ARE 2 big parties to make you Americans think you have a real choice in an election. A real alternative. A real way through the ballot box to remove corporate control of your government. In my opinion, you don't. Not at the ballot box.

And you know what? That's exactly the problem Canadians and people in the UK have too. They cannot do a damn thing at the ballot box to change the fact that a consortium of huge corporations and banks are in truth running their governments by buying out all the political parties that have any chance of forming a government. The financiers are in control of the system.

And what is the goal of a financier? To make MORE money. And how do they do it? Well, we've all seen how, haven't we? Through war production and fraud. Through moving jobs to other countries. Through generating massive debt by perpetrating giant pyramid schemes that end up bankrupting a society. And they got bailed out after doing it, didn't they?

You think Obama is gonna fight those guys? I don't. I think he's working for them. And the Republicans work for them too.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 01:20 AM

Jesus...! Bobert...you have to see this:

Jack Abramoff - The whole system is corrupt" - The story of a Washington DC lobbyist

I just finished watching it after seeing the link posted on the OWS thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 11:29 AM

Jack just got caught... The Koch brothers make him look like a Boy Scout...

As for presidential elections... I sat out quite a few... Voted for Carter when he lost to Ronnie Raygun and then just voted for local contests and abstained from the presidential election until '96 when I voted for Nader... Then in 2000 I worked in Nader's campaign... I brokered my vote in 2004 and voted for Kerry in West Virginia in exchange for a Nader vote in Virginia...

And I will vote vote for Obama again next year because I hold out hope that he has some Trojan horse in him and will be a much different 2nd term president...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 11:42 AM

Well, Jack may look like a Boy Scout compared to some, but his story sheds some powerful light on the situation, doesn't it? I bet you can count the congressmen who haven't been corrupted by lobbying in some way on the fingers of one hand. (If there are any at all who haven't been.)

In a situation like that, how does one get a government to behave responsibly and serve the people who elected it? I don't know, frankly. I don't think the present form of government even can be reformed without some sort of revolution...but I am not talking about a violent revolution, because that would probably result in some sort of fascist takeover. I'm talking about a completely nonviolent revolution. That requires a massive mobilization of ordinary people who simply refuse to go along with the present system.

It's been done in a few places. I expect it can be done here too, the only question is "when?". Until it is done, I don't see any way of preventing Big Money from tacitly running the government.

Abramoff points out that the feeble legislative efforts that have been made in recent years to prevent lobbyists from influencing Congressmen have been easily outmaneuvered by the lobbyists. I think it's almost impossible to draft a body of law that blocks every possible route someone with a lot of money has to influence the legislative process. There are simply too many different ways of doing it.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 01:38 PM

Here's the problem... In order for a senator to have enough campaign money to run a successful re-election campaign he must raise an average of $8,000 a day... That sad reality is why we have a corrupt government...

Public financing of elections (no exceptions) is the one biggest thing we can do to restore democracy... Right now, we don't have democracy... We have taxation without representation...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 02:44 PM

I couldn't agree more. And how the hell do you change such a system from within when the very people benefiting from it most are the same ones who are empowered to legislate change?

It's a Catch-22.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 03:09 PM

First up, I don't think there's anything "naïve" about Bobert. He's been there, done that, and in the immortal words of Douglas Adams, he knows where his towel is.

There is a very hopeful sign in a story I heard on my local NPR affiliate this morning:    Ranked choice voting.

To me, this sounds like the same thing as "preferential voting" or "instant run-off voting." Although, according to the NPR story, some people find this confusing, PROBABLY because it's a bit more complicated than the system we have now—AND voters would need to be a bit more savvy about the various candidates. A GOOD thing, that!

Some cities in the U. S. already use this system, as do several countries.

The advantage of this—which the two parties undoubtedly will not like at all—is that it gives the voter a slate of viable candidates, not just a choice between REALLY bad and not QUITE so bad. It makes it possible for the voter to vote FOR the candidate he prefers, even if the word is that that particular candidate doesn't stand a chance. For example, Ralph Nader or Dennis Kucinich. If that candidate gets insufficient votes to be in the running, your vote moves up to your second choice, and so on.

This means that you can go ahead and vote for the candidate you prefer without fear of throwing your vote away, rather than having to vote for the least crooked of two crooks.

Works for me! Maybe we should start a movement!! One modus operandi:   get it started on the local level (which it seems to already have!), then when it catches on, demand that it go national.

Don Firth

P. S. I am NOT willing to just sit on my hands and whine, "Oh, woe! Oh, woe!" like some people seem to be!


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 03:25 PM

Don, you are unfairly mischaracterizing people who point out an existing problem as just "sitting on their hands and saying "Woe! Woe!". To talk to other people about a problem and articulate it clearly IS one of the things that inspires people to seek change, and that is the purpose of protest songs, protest literature (like Dicken's novels about the appalling social conditions in Victorian England), and public discourse in general.

That aside, I think your suggestion about ranked choice voting is an excellent one. You're right that the established parties won't like it, but it's a reform that is sorely needed, and the more people who hear about it, the better.

We are discussing things not merely to utter "Woe! Woe", but to do the following:

1. Clearly identify the existing problem!
2. Clearly understand it.
3. Make others aware of it so they can understand it.
3. And look for ways to solve it.

The more these things are discussed, the more it will eventually percolate through to many other people, and that's how change is eventually accomplished.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 03:42 PM

Touchy touchy, Little Hawk! I was not necessarily referring to you. And I don't need to be lectured to. I am FULLY AWARE of the dynamics of the situation.

But you DO have the habit of repeating the difficulties over and over again without offering any practical suggestions, or even suggesting that there might be any. Quite to opposite.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 04:11 PM

Do you feel that I am lecturing you??? Why? I'm simply explaining and articulating my own thoughts on the subject. I am no more lecturing you than you are lecturing me...or whoever else you might be talking to here. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

I think we are both quite aware of the dynamics of the situation, and I wasn't suggesting that you are not. I was voicing my thoughts. That's what we all do here.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 04:27 PM

Silly fuckers!.....Do you really believe that you will be allowed to change anything, from within this system, in the the timespan that you envisage?

Change in the time that you seem to expect, would take a civil war....which would be almost certainly lost and as Hawk says would result in a Fascist State.
The people who run this system and the political Parties which provide a bit of diversion for the intellectually challenged ("liberals"), would not hesitate to slaughter us in our thousands.

The only hope is to recognise the nature of the problem with Capitalism......for it is the capitalist mindset which has perverted the way we live.....in every walk of life it leaves its grubby fingermarks, turning humanity into greedy unfeeling selfish ultra consumers.

Dont bother occupying Wall St.....these people are beyond help, they have no feeling, no empathy with the folks struggling at the bottom of the Capitalist cesspit.

Start by occupying the minds of your brothers and sisters who still believe the "American Dream".......this needs to be played as a long game, OWS means to most people, that "the system can be fixed", but
most of you Dems know that full well, I'm sure you promote that idea on purpose.

To paraphase Mr Obama......."NO IT FUCKIN' CAIN'T"


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 05:20 PM

Well, Little Hawk, just about every time someone makes a suggestion of what can be done, you seem to come back with your same observations on how hopeless the political situation in the U. S. is, so it's really easy to get the impression that you're saying, "Give it up! Nothing can be done! You're stuck with it."

Now, Ake's post just above goes even further than that, suggesting the only thing Americans can do is break out the Red Banner and storm the Winter Palace.

Been done. Didn't seem to work out real well. . . .

Shades of the back booth in the Blue Moon Tavern.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 05:48 PM

Actually, Don, Akenaton plainly says in his post that to "break out the Red Banner and storm the Winter Palace" (your words) would probably result in "a civil war....which would be almost certainly lost and as Hawk says would result in a Fascist State".(his words)

Therefore he is not advising what you say he is advising. He is saying that change to this existing system is going to take a lot longer than most of us would like it to. And he is saying that we have to work change in the minds of millions of our fellow citizens in order to change things, and that will take some time. It may take a generation or two to do it.

I tend to agree with that.

Anyway, there's a problem in human relations that keeps happening here, and it goes like this: If you deliberately interpret (or misinterpret) another person's words in the way that best suits your low opinion of him, meaning in the worst way...rather than trying to understand what he is actually saying to you...you will probably be doing him an injustice and erecting a straw man in his place to hurl invective at.

It would be really handy for the gratification of the ego if everyone we disagreed with about politics was stupid, evil, wrongheaded, and an idiot to boot...but it just ain't so, Don. Yet people here keep dumping on other people as if it were so.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 05:53 PM

There are OWS groups in every major city in the US... It's not hopeless... It's hopeful...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:09 PM

Little Hawk, it's not a matter of my ego! Nor is it a matter of misinterpretation. My observation that the suggestions offered about what U. S. citizens can do being met by floods of negativism is a matter of direct observation. And it's predictable! E.g., "If I say this, I know darn well that              is going to come in and tell me why it won't work!"

What I'm saying is, let's not dwell on how difficult it's going to be. Let's figure ways and means. Then, let's GET CRACKING!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:41 PM

Yeah, everyone gets pretty predictable when you've know them awhile, Don. ;-) That's why so many people can't stand some of their close relatives. We have all become very predictable to each other on this forum.

Anyway, I am very much in favour of the OWS movement. I have far more faith in it that Akenaton does, mainly because I remember what Gandhi did in India and what (most of) the Warsaw Pact did in the late 80s. They accomplished a revolution without major violence (except in Rumania).

That revolution did not attain all its hoped-for objectives. The people in general were not mature enough to grasp the vision of social transformation that Gorbachev was offering them, and they opted instead for parochial fractionalism and division. In some places it was taken over by corrupt politicians (such as Boris Yeltsin, for one) and criminal oligarchies. But at least it proved that you CAN bring a mighty system down without killing hundreds of thousands or even millions of people in a civil war.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:00 PM

That's the beauty here in the US... We have a good foundation... Yeah, the government has been corrupted by the rich... That is fixable without a violent revolution but...

...if it doesn't get fixed then we could see it get messy...

I would hope that OWS is helping to jack some folks consciousnesses up to where they will quit supporting and voting for people who are not part of the solution...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:13 PM

Agreed, Little Hawk. This OWS movement that has not only spread all over the country, but much of the world as well, I see as a really hopeful sign. Despite the attempts of some folks to attribute it to sinister motives on the part of the usual Powers That Be, it appears to me that it has said Powers That Be trembling in their boots.

Didn't I hear yesterday that some 600,000 people shifted their bank accounts from the BIG banks (Bank of America, Chase, etc.) to small local banks and credit unions? As far as the biggies are concerned, that's gotta smart! And that campaign was pretty much set up on the internet. I know I got several e-mails urging me to move my account to a neighborhood bank or credit union, but I wasn't able to sign a pledge to do that because my wife and I already use a credit union, and have for years. We have ONE credit card, which we got through them also;   no fees or charges if you pay off your balance every month, which we do.

I think this OWS movement is a good indication that the genii is out of the bottle and is just starting to test his strength!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 11:10 PM

So do I, and it's the Internet that has made it possible, because ordinary people all over the world can talk directly to each other now and share information.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 08:55 AM

I did vote for him. And I have been very disappointed. However, as I watch the Republican campaign, I am struck by the fact that Obama has more mental horsepower than the whole Republican field combined...times three!

Saul


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 12:12 PM

Oh, he's a smart man, all right. No doubt about that. But what is his intelligence really in service of?

Did you vote for this?


Speech by an veteran of the Iraq War

Keep in mind after watching it that this is what you get with Bush, McCain, Obama, Hillary Clinton, AND anyone else whom the Republicans will pick to run for them in 2012...you get it with all of them. This is what you get, because they all work for the same basic purposes which are imperial in nature and in design. The election is to make you think you have a choice in the matter...and it serves well to keep you divided too, which is always handy for your rulers.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 01:33 PM

And what should we, as citizens, do about that, Little Hawk? GfS?

Anybody?

I KNOW what's wrong with the system. I'd like to hear a few viable suggestions from some of the chronic doom-sayers as to how to change it.

Again, anybody?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: oggie
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 01:46 PM

You do what most of us do in "democracies", hold your nose, cross your fingers, vote for the least worst candidate (in your opinion) and hope.

Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 02:20 PM

What you need to do, Don, is actively cease supporting ANY politician or party who lies to you and leads you down the garden path to war, bankruptcy, and disaster. Protest what they are doing! Refuse to accept it any longer. Make them hear you! That, I believe, is what the OWS movement is about, is it not?

That's how revolutions happen. People refuse to believe in a ruling system any longer, and they refuse to give it their tacit support any longer by doing what it wants them to do.

A revolution can be violent. Or it can be non-violent. I recommend a nonviolent revolution, because I think that is the only sane way forward, and the only one that will not lead inevitably to something far worse than our present situation.

I do not expect any political party to achieve that revolution. Not a chance, in my opinion. I expect nonpartisan action by individual people to achieve it. As far as I'm concerned, political parties have become as outmoded and downright pernicious as the old practice of the Divine Right of Kings which preceded them.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 02:26 PM

LH, he is incapable of living in the truth. He thrives on promoting bullshit, and misquoting people's statements, so he can lie even more, as a solution, to what he lied about them saying!...Jeeez, you know that!

Gotcha' covered!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 03:05 PM

Good answer, Little Hawk.

One of the very hopeful things about the nationwide--worldwide--Occupy Wall Street movement is that there are enough people who have bloody-well had it with being had that a voter's strike is becoming a distinct possibility.

In short, "None of the above!!"

The whole systen has to be changed. Strict regulation of campaign financing, make bribery of public officials in any form (money, promises of a good job at the end of one's term, any form of consideration for favors done) a fine and prison offense, AND the institution of preferential or instant run-off voting.

This is just a start. Other measures would include the re-institution of many of FDR's "alphabet soup agencies" such as the Securities and Exchange Commission (NOT to include Wall Street bankers as it does now, since Ronald Reagan set out ot gut them, and the other regulatory agencies FDR put in place.

One of the things that has been made plain by the OWS demonstrations is the many of the participants had great hopes for Barack Obama, voter for him, and have since been sorely disappointed by his performance. Or lack of performance. Much of it is not his fault, since the Republican Congress has done everything it can to block everything he has tried to do, wanting him to fail, no matter how it screws up the rest of the country.

When someone came to FDR with their grievances and what they wanted him to do about it, he said, "I totally agree with you. Now, MAKE me do it!"

That's what we have to do with Obama. Give him a spine transplant and MAKE him do it!

OWS can do that!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:14 PM

You forget that it was not only the bankers who caused the system to fail, most of us bought into it, eager to believe any lie that would make as a few dollars better off.

You have a mountain to climb and a global mindset to change.

Only unity can facilitate it.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:27 PM

I didn't forget anything, Ake. Been around awhile, and I know what's going on.

And I'm fully aware of the sort of "unity" you're talking about.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:32 PM

Akenaton: "You forget that it was not only the bankers who caused the system to fail,..."

Yeah, they needed to do 'business' with some very corrupt politicians to accommodate them!!!

With that in mind:

Don Firth: "I didn't forget anything, Ake. Been around awhile, and I know what's going on.
And I'm fully aware of the sort of "unity" you're talking about."


Oh! the wonders of politics!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:42 PM

As I thought GfS, They are no more serious about "change" than their fallen hero Mr Obama.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:44 PM

We are definitely on the same page, Don, if I can go by your last post.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 06:31 PM

That's pretty much it, Little Hawk.

I do like to seek ways to solve the problems, as overwhelming as they appear to be. Granted, they DO seem pretty overwhelming, but historically speaking civilizations have been here before and managed to dig their way out of it. I'm confident that we can too. As long as we don't just give up.

Contrary to the chonic nay-sayers, OWS is a hopeful sign.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 10:24 PM

By not voting one is allowing for the worst of two choices to further the grip the fascists have on our country...

One party, if they had the power would end Social Security throwing tens of millions of old people into poverty...

One party would reduce the tax rates to the point where there would be insufficient resources to do anything...

That party is the Republican Party...

Of course the MudOstriches say, "Screw it, just let it happen"...

No thanks to head-in-the-sand-classless-and-free thinkers here... They are as wrong as wrong can be... The Dems may not be great but they offer a framework for bringing about a better country without the blood...

And then they came for me...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 12:19 AM

Bobert, You just articulated the FEARS that 'they' are foisting upon either side...so 'they' come up with the 'solution' that will be to the 'appeasement' of both sides...but WE will have NO say in it....and it won't be the one that leaves us free!...if that matters....

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 12:49 PM

Yup. They play people like violins by using "the good cop" (the Democratic Party) and "the bad cop" (the Republicans) to instill fear in 2 sets of confused and reactive voters.

Some people fear "the good cop". They are afraid that he will bring in socialism, "tax and spend", raise their taxes, coddle criminals and illegal immigrants, encourage abortion, take God off the dollar bill, weaken the military, etc..... (Hilarious. And pathetic.) Those people vote Republican because they deeply fear what the Democrats may do once in office. Their fear is based on a long tradition and a ceaseless flow of propaganda designed to encourage those fears.

Other people fear "the bad cop", the Republicans. They are afraid that he will privatize their public institutions, destroy Medicare, give away more money to the rich, persecute minorities, deny women their civil rights, increase draconian police powers, force schools to teach creationism, launch more insane wars overseas, etc... (SCARY!) Their fear is based on a long tradition and a ceaseless flow of propaganada designed to encourage those fears.

The "bad cop" can easily be swept into office by inflaming the right set of fears...specially the fear that the USA is not standing up to a dire "foreign threat", because the "bad cop" is so military in stance that he looks like George Patton addressing the troops.

However...the "bad cop" has a way of totally screwing things up sooooo badly if given the chance to wield power that presently the public realizes they've been had! Or at least a majority of them realize it. Then there is a rush to repudiate the "bad cop" and bring in the "good cop"...and we see a huge swing over to the Democrats. That happened in 2008.

Then the "good cop" proceeds to advance basically the same agenda that the "bad cop" is normally engaged in, but pretends not to be doing it. And the public is had once again. Presently they realize they've been had, and they kick the "good cop" out of office, and the "bad cop" returns, and the whole ugly business rolls on into its next stage of...

coddling the rich elite
destroying the middle class
abandoning the poor
encouraging public divisions over "hot" issues (like abortion and religion)
fighting unjust wars
building more prisons
increasing police powers and domestic surveillance

The "bad cop" does it openly and proudly. The "good cop" does it, but pretends not to be doing it. This is a game the public can't win at the ballot box, given the present means of financing political campaigns and lobbying in Washington.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 04:38 PM

Very good...with one addendum.....they change the names back and forth, as to 'good cop' and 'bad cop'...but somehow things never get changed BACK to independence and freedom!..The ever controlling noose of the Federal government, in bed with globalist tyrants, just keeps getting tighter!....

So, who's to blame?....the knot, or the rope??????

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 05:09 PM

Twiddle dee and twiddle dum...

Not one single plan of their own...

Just the same ho hum...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 05:40 PM

I already clearly stated my plan, Bobert, in my post of:

11 Nov 11 - 02:20 PM

Read it.

And consider how they do elections in Cuba. I've spoken of that before, in detail. You can look it up on Google by googling "Cuban electoral system". Something like that is my plan. It can only be done if millions of individual people change their basic beliefs and assumptions about how to fairly organize a democratic election. And that will take time....and suffering, because until people are suffering, they simply can't be bothered to alter an existing status quo. They'd rather sleep, and repeat old behaviour...while expecting a different result. That's the definition of insanity.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 06:28 PM

That not a plan, LH... That is what you'd like to see as an end game... How do you get there??? That's the BIG question???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 08:29 AM

"A 2nd term Obama can be a progressives dream"

Some of us live in a dream.

Some of us live in reality.

"elections in Cuba"

A sterling example of an oxymoron. Which world does LH live in?

Human Rights Watch

Cuba: Stop Imprisoning Peaceful Dissidents


    The conviction of six dissidents in summary trials for doing no more than exercising their fundamental rights highlights the continuing abuse of the criminal justice system to repress dissent in Cuba, Human Rights Watch said today. Raúl Castro's government should immediately release the prisoners, who were given sentences ranging from two to five years in prison, and cease all politically motivated repression against Cubans who exercise their fundamental freedoms, said Human Rights Watch.

Four people were sentenced on May 31, 2011, in Havana for distributing pamphlets criticizing Raúl and Fidel Castro, and two human rights defenders in Holguín were sentenced on May 24, charged with "insulting national symbols" and "disorder" for public acts that they denied had taken place.

"With this new round of prosecutions, the Castro government is sending a clear message to dissidents that the status quo has not changed in Cuba," said José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch. "Publicly criticizing the government can still earn you a harsh prison sentence."

Luis Enrique Labrador, 33; David Piloto, 40; Walfrido Rodríguez, 42; and Yordani Martínez, 23, were sentenced in Havana on May 31 on charges of contempt and public disorder. An official document addressed by the state prosecutor to the Criminal Court of Havana, a copy of which was obtained by Human Rights Watch, said the four were detained on January 14, when they went to Havana's Revolutionary Square and threw leaflets into the air with slogans such as "Down with the Castros."

When agents of the National Revolutionary Police arrived at the scene, the four men sat down on the ground, an act the prosecutor deemed "a defiant and provocative attitude...that interrupted the traffic flow." Martínez was sentenced to three years in prison, while the other three were each sentenced to five years, according to their families and human rights defenders in Cuba.

Family members told Human Rights Watch that state security agents had visited their homes the day before the trial, warning relatives that if they "created a scene" and called attention to the hearing, the detainees would be left in pretrial detention indefinitely. One man's mother said she was fired in April on the grounds that she was "the mother of a counterrevolutionary." The families also told Human Rights Watch that Martínez and Piloto went on hunger strike in May in Valle Grande prison to demand they be put on trial. In response, they later told their families, they were handcuffed and beaten by a prison official.

In a taped interview with a Cuban human rights defender, Juan Carlos Gonzalez Leiva, which was later replayed for Human Rights Watch, Rodríguez called the trial a "a mockery." He said the judge simply rubber-stamped the prosecutor's recommended punishment, ignoring the defendants' arguments in their defense. Elizardo Sanchez, the director of the Cuban Commission on Human Rights and National Reconciliation, an independent human rights group not recognized by the Cuban government, told Human Rights Watch that state security agents surrounded the local courthouse where the trial took place, preventing human rights defenders and other members of the public from attending.

On May 24, Marcos Maikel Lima Cruz, 33, and Antonio Michel Lima Cruz, 28, brothers who were members of a human rights group in Holguín called Pedro Luis Boitel - were sentenced to three and two years in prison respectively in a closed, summary trial. Their father, the independent journalist Marcos Antonio Lima Dalmau, said the two were arrested on December 25, 2010. Lima Dalmau, who was allowed to attend his sons' trial, said they were accused of insulting national symbols and causing public disorder for allegedly dancing naked in front of their house, and spitting, urinating, and stepping on a Cuban flag, which both denied.

Human Rights Watch believes that the charges were fabricated to prosecute the brothers in retaliation for their human rights work. Lima Dalmau said that one of the witnesses who testified in their trial - a neighbor - said he had accompanied police when they inspected the brothers' home, and had seen the flag hanging undamaged on a wall.

Cuba's laws empower the state to criminalize virtually all forms of dissent, and grant officials extraordinary authority to penalize people who try to exercise their basic rights. The Cuban Criminal Code penalizes anyone who "threatens, libels or slanders, defames, affronts or in any other way insults or offends, with the spoken word or in writing, the dignity or decorum of an authority, public functionary, or his agents or auxiliaries." The violations are punishable by one to three years in prison, if directed at high ranking officials. Such laws violate the right to freedom of expression recognized in article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights - signed by Cuba in 2008.

"The dissidents were prosecuted on the basis of their political beliefs, and because they dared to exercise rights that all Cubans should enjoy," Vivanco said. "They should never have even been tried, let alone convicted."


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 12:10 PM

I agree with Sawzaw that Obama isn't the answer. The rest of that most recent post is blather that while likely true does bugger all to forward the discussion on this thread, imo.

The present problem is in the coming election. The need is to change congress, because it matters little who the president is. Too many people here on both sides of the issue/equation are frustrated with a president who has been able to achieve very little. Some ascribe it to unwillingness on his part, some to darker intentions, and still others bring in all the bad things Obama has done by not being able to overturn decades of crappy politics in Washington, DC.

The USA, if it has any intention of surviving as a country has to begin electing free agents, that is, people not with one or the other party.

I think Bernie Sanders would win as an independent. Before anyone cries, "No he would lose his voice in the senate", think, please.

He has no voice anyway. Why do you not want elected officials who belong to no party and who owe allegiance to only one group of people: the voters? In short words, eff the Repubs and eff the Dems.

As for remarks made by Nader, he did great work against large corporations. I hope he runs for the senate so he can effect some decent change. Please, start looking at who could run as independents and start asking them to do so. The two-party system has to be broken.

imo


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 12:49 PM

Agreed, Bruce, that Obama isn't the answer.

However, absent a Sanders Presidency - 'tis a consumnation devoutly to be wish'd, but a practical impossibility - Obama is preferable to any of the circus of lunatics proposed by the Republicans.

Its a shame, but there it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 01:10 PM

IMO, it matters not one jot or tittle who the president is. It matters who sits in the House and the Senate. At present, there isn't a single Republican who shines. Much the same can be said of the Democrats (although I'm not aware of who will be running for the Democratic Party presidential nomination).


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 01:46 PM

My comments were regarding the Cuban electoral process, Sawzaw, not a blanket statement on every single possible incident of justice or injustice in the entire Cuban experience. Yes, there are some injustices in Cuba. Every nation has some incidents of injustice in its so-called "justice" system, the USA and Canada included. That wasn't what I was talking about. I was talking about how their electoral process works, how they select candidates, run an election, how they vote, campaign, etc. I suggest you look it up on Google...easily done by merely googling "Cuban electoral system". What they do is what WE should be doing if we want a truly representative and honest electoral process.

If you're not afraid to be confronted by an uncomfortable truth that you are apparently completely unacquainted with, you'll do it now... ;-) (not bloody likely, I expect)


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 03:53 PM

I HAVE looked up the Cuban electoral system, Little Hawk, and combed through a whole mess of information. What I have found boils down to two salient, unavoidable points:
1.   It's a one-party system; and

2/   That one party chooses the slate of candidates.
In what way does that differ substantially from the system we actually have here in the U. S.?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 01:05 PM

Don, there is no political party involved in selecting or running candidates in Cuba. Here is an article which explains how it works:

Cuban electoral process

Read that. Give it consideration as to what would happen if we in Canada, the USA, and other western "democracies" had the sense to conduct elections in a similar fashion and get political parties themselves out of the process entirely! We would, by golly, have very inexpensive, simple, and uncorrupted elections, and our chances of creating a truly representative and honest government would go up by about 500%, in my opinion.

****

You are correct that the Cuban republic identifies itself as a One-party system, but that party does not select the candidates who run in Cuban elections. The ordinary public selects the candidates, in a free and completely open manner.

Your comment that the USA actually has a One-Party system is apt...and quite correct. It's the USA-ian Corporatist/Military Party, in truth, but it masquerades as 2 separate parties, Democrats and Republicans, and DOES control the selection of candidates and makes them beholden to corporate funding from the getgo, so that once in office they will serve the Corporatocracy.

That's pretty much the diametrical opposite of what is done in Cuba, where elections are extremely inexpensive, where candidates run on their individual merits and record, NOT on party affiliation, and NOT with any financial advantage over competing candidates. The only advantage a candidate can have in Cuba over another candidate aiming for the same office is this: Do the voters in that region have greater confidence in his or her honesty and abilities than they do in the other candidates for that office? If so, he or she will win. That's it. Period. There is no way to corrupt and subvert a system as simple and transparent as that.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 03:18 PM

Thanks for posting the link, Little Hawk. I hadn't found that one in my search.

Might could be! I gave it a quick scan, but I'll go back and read it more thoroughly.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 04:06 PM

Excellent article LH.....and I endorse it 100%.

Such a system requires a leader who can be viewed as incorruptible.
In Fidel Castro the Cuban people have found an example in pure gold.

The worth of such a leader is not measured in material possessions, we must all learn that lesson if we are to construct a better society.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Amos
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 04:43 PM

Pish and tush. Those of you who have the option of voting for Obama should absolutely do so. The alternatives are too disgusting to contemplate. At the very least, in Obama, you have a man of intelligence and a desire to move things forward and make them better. Why would you want to forward the suppression of the whole nation for the benefit of a small fraction of it?

A


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 05:05 PM

I am not saying to anyone that they should NOT necessarily vote for Mr Obama, Amos. If you believe in him, and you think he's the better alternative to someone else, then by all means...vote for him.

What I am saying, however, is that ALL the western democracies...not just yours...need to reform their electoral systems in such a way that we don't get just "the best candidate money can buy" instead of the person who really IS the best candidate. To do that, our electoral systems have to be set up very differently from the way they are now, and I'm suggesting that the Cubans have a model with some very good features in it, features that we could just as well work into our own electoral systems if people had the vision and the will to do it.

If people are kept ignorant of possible alternatives to the electoral status quo, then they'll be just like a monkey who cannot see the bars of his own cage. He imagines himself to be "free", but he is not.

Cubans are not free either. No one in this world lives in a truly free system, everyone's inside a sort of cultural cage with bars they can't see...or they refuse to acknowledge...but the Cubans HAVE managed to create a simple, honest, nonpartisan, and open electoral system that is not corrupted by hidden payoffs and corporate funding of the candidates. That is one thing they have that we ought to pay very close attention to.

People can't pay attention to it if they are never even told about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 06:47 PM

Much as I hate to say it, I think Amos is right. However, I do wish Bernie Sanders would step into the ring this time 'round. And if wishes was fishes . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 08:28 PM

Since when does intelligence have anything to do with politics? And if Obama's so smart, how come he freezes when his teleprompters go down?

Obama told me (and the rest of us voters) that he would close the prison at Guantanamo. So what does he do?

"Instead of shuttering the notorious Guantanamo Bay prison as promised, President Barack Obama has upped the stakes. For the first time, a detainee faces execution if convicted at an offshore military tribunal on the U.S. naval base in Cuba."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/worldview/obamas-revamps-tested-in-nashiri-trial-at-guantanamo-bay/article2231966/

Oh, yeah, we need that Cuban system here.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 09:44 PM

Obama went 2 hours with the entire Republican caucus without teleprompter and tore them a new one...

Next ObamaHateBrigade garbage...

Bob


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 09:48 PM

"And if Obama's so smart, how come he freezes when his teleprompters go down?"

That is a load of fetid dingo's kidneys. Not true! Obama is an excellent extemporaneous speaker.

I don't know how that crap got started, but it comes from the same garbage can as the "birther" lie and "Obama is really a Muslim," and the rest of that collection of libels and slanders.

Pure hate-mongering.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 10:58 PM

Hitler was a bright guy too. Did that make him the most qualified for the job?

I could post links to video of Obama standing, waiting while they fix his teleprompters, but we all know the score on that.

And why hasn't Obama closed the prison at Guantanamo? He's the president. That would be easy enough to do. Did the Republicans block him on that one?

Obama's a sociopathic liar, same as George W. Bush. They were cut from the same cloth. They work for the same team. They tell you the same lies.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 11:18 PM

Oh, the old Hitler defense, songwronger???

Gets you a 2 on the 10 scale in Basic Debating 101...

Okay... Maybe a 1....

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 11:37 PM

Supporting Obama the Unproven was acceptable, but not Obama the Killer. Why the hell would you defend a piece of garbage like him? If you support him now, you support his policies. He said he was going to close Guantanamo, but he's upped the torture there and now he's going to carry out a little tribunal murder. Why would you defend behavior like that?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 12:58 AM

Fear of the Republicans, Songwronger. That is what drives many here to support...or overlook...some of the things Obama is doing. It is their intense fear that he will be replaced by another Republican administration, so they feel they MUST support him no matter what!

That's how the old 2-Party gambit works. You scare the hell out of each half of the American public by making them fear that the guy whom the other half is supporting will get elected...at any given time.

It works great too, because those frightened people get on Internet forums and foam away at each other over their partisan fears and the great imperial machine rolls merrily on, no matter which party gets elected.

This may be partly why the Soviet Union collapsed. They didn't have the wit to split their monolithic One-party system into 2 separate and officially opposed Communist parties! .....a "liberal" Communist party and a "conservative" Communist party....and they could have done so! If they had, they could have perpetually turned the anger of the Russian people on each other over the 2-party divide, and they might well still be in power, but with only ONE MONOLITHIC Politburo in place, the people's anger turned on that monolith...and they brought it down.

This doesn't change the fact that there really were liberal Russian Coummunists and conservative Russian Communists, but like I say: they didn't make it into an official 2-party divide. If they had, they could have played one half of the Russian public against the other half just like it's done with Republicans and Democrats in the USA...and no one could have accused them of NOT having "democratic" elections either!

What you have in the USA is two Capitalist parties. They look so alike to the rest of the world, once in office, that it's laughable...but the choice between them supposedly guarantees "democracy". Ha! A good joke, that.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 01:46 AM

I will not lower myself to debate with Songwronger.

Comparing a political figure that one does not like to Hitler is the unmistakable mark of a person in the grip of irrational hatred.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:10 AM

He was making a point about intelligence not being the only benchmark of good leadership, not equating Obama with Hitler...but I find that people do this automatic reflex thing of comparing basically ANY politician they are really against to Hitler in some way or another...and it's generally an unwise thing to do...it arouses equally extreme responses.

That's because Hitler has become the automatic mental example of "ultimate bad politician" to people the world over. It's never wise to name him in connection with some present politician, because it just distracts from serious analysis of a situation by reducing it to a huge stereotype.

For example, every time the USA decides to "get" some foreign bad guy, he is compared in the American media to who? To Hitler, of course! This happened with Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gadhaffi, and it has been done with Ahmadinejad too. It's an equally lazy and predictable label no matter who uses it on whom, as far as I can see, because there's so much historical baggage attached in people's minds to Hitler as the symbol of ultimate evil that the conversation gets derailed the moment his name comes up.

Stalin was probably just as bad or worse than Hitler. Pol Pot was probably worse than both of them...though he affected a much smaller area of the world. Regardless of that, the name "Hitler" remains the ultimate insult, the ultimate provocation, the ultimate word to cause rational discussion to cease and people to go totally off the deep end in their responses to each other.

It's like calling someone "Satan"...it kind of precludes having any kind of worthwhile conversation about the subject. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 12:49 PM

Obama has made himself irrelevant. Our leaders in the US are corrupted.
Democracy is now in the hands of the Patriots of the Occupy movement.

The war is widening from Afghanistan to Pakistan. Drones are killing innocent people.
Veterans are discovering that they have been had. Transnational Corporations are ignoring human rights.

Obama has lost his credibility along with the Democratic Party.

He has betrayed us by his promises of which he never delivered.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 03:59 PM

A little background on technology, folks:

Since its invention a half­-century ago, the teleprompter has been used by news anchors, newscasters, actors, comedians, and just about everyone else who appears in front of a television camera—including presidents and presidential candidates, Republicans and Democrats alike. The purpose, of course is to strive for precision and accuracy in their speeches.

The teleprompter substitutes for written text on a piece of paper. The story that Abraham Lincoln read from his notes for his Gettysburg Address on the back of an envelope is not just legendary. It is true. The used envelope he wrote the speech on still exists.

When master speech-maker Franklin D. Roosevelt came on the air with his "Fireside Chats" in the 1930s and 40s, he read from copy that he had written himself. No one could criticize him for reading from a prepared text for the simple reason that they couldn't see him reading. But anyone with a brain cell knew that speeches that cohesive and precise had to have been written ahead of time, even if FDR did deliver them in a friendly and informal manner.

Prior to the teleprompter, "cue cards" were used. Someone would stand next to the television camera with a "deck" of poster-size cards on which the script was hand-printed in large, dark block letters. These were commonly used on entertainment shows, and frequently when they switched cameras on shows like "The Andy Williams Show" and "The Glen Campbell Good Time Hour" you could catch occasional glimpses of one of the crew holding up a cue card with song lyrics and/or gag lines on it. As the entertainer finished what was on one card, it was dropped or handed to someone else and the next card was held up.

In 1959, when Patti McLaughlin and I did the television series, "Ballads and Books," on Seattle's KCTS Channel 9, the producer asked us if we wanted cue cards. Since we had sung the songs dozens if not hundreds of times, we declined. But had we been delivering a lecture or political speech where we wanted to make certain that we had covered all the salient points, we would most certainly have opted for cue cards—or these days, a teleprompter. As it was, when we talked about the history and background of the material we were singing, it was in answer to questions posed to us (the "experts") by Buzz Anderson, who emceed the shows—and who had the script in his hands.

Prior to the invention of the teleprompter, news anchors such as Walter Crokite, Chet Huntley and David Brinkley, and Edward R. Murrow could be seen with typed scripts in their hands, unobtrusively glancing at the script, but keeping their eyes focused on the camera as much as possible. Now, you see news anchors and reporters looking at the camera. Or just to the side of the lens, where the teleprompter is located.

Criticism of former President Ronald Reagan's teleprompter use was that he was merely mouthing stuff written for him by gofers, something Reagan had been conditioned to do during his years as TV spokesperson for General Electric. Concealing Reagan's teleprompter use was deceptive.

As a law school lecturer, President Obama would not have used a teleprompter. From that, it appears that he is not used to reading as a substitute for speaking his thoughts ex tempore. By attempting to capitalize on such trivia, Republican candidates demonstrate how little of substance they really have to talk about.

By citing such childish irrelevancies and trumpeting that they won't be using such technological aids, Republican hopefuls may be shooting themselves in the foot. We've already seen some pretty hilarious—and highly revealing—examples of disorganized thinking from people like (presumably) former candidate Sarah Palin, and more recently Rick Perry's monumental "OOPS!"

There will be more to come, I'm sure. Excellent fodder for stand-up comics and "Saturday Night Live" skits!

Those who keep repeating canards about Obama's presumed "dependence" on teleprompters (not the case at all), and comparing him with Hitler (a stupid and mean-spirited piece of hate-mongering at best) reveal the nature of their own character and more than amply demonstrate that they have nothing of substance to talk about.

Don Firth

P. S. As to Obama's irrelevancy, could anyone do any better when faced with the Congress that he has had to deal with? If so, who?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 07:08 PM

We have seen first hand that the Republicans aren't bluffing... They ***are*** radical and they will kill stuff impulsively to impress their Koch brother funders...

It ain't paranoid if they are out to get you and the current Republican party is out to trash the New deal...

Now the "classless and free" ostriches here hang on their bullshit ***both sides*** narrative... These two are like stuck records with no real understanding of just how close the Republican Party is to disassembling the American Society...

This ain't about "fear"... It's 100% about reality...

"And then they came for me"...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 11:23 PM

I voted for him because he promised to end the wars, but he lied on that. Then he got all severe and went to work on gutting America's social services:

How Obama Tried to Sell Out Liberalism in 2011

And now he's wallowing in the death of Trayvon Martin. He's such a media hog. I can understand Al Sharpton making a big deal out of the shooting because that's how he pays the bills, but Obama...he's the president, and he out-lowlifes Sharpton and Jackson and all the rest put together. "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon." So disgusting. And FAR beyond any political explanation. He has the black vote sewn up, so why the crocodile tears?

I've come to the conclusion that Obama is insane. On a par with George W. Bush. I mean, Obama's narcissism is SO INTENSE that he uses that poor family's grief to strut and preen and draw all eyes to himself. That is FAR beyond bad taste. It's...insanity.

But it won't be next year. If things go according to plan, the DSM will decommission narcissism as a mental illness. This looks suspiciously like a nod to our over-the-top narcissistic leader. This would be like the Italian equivalent of the American Psychiatric Association telling Mussolini back in the thirties that he's the picture of health. Such quackery. Obama's nuttier than a squirrel's winter den.

There's a movement to remove him from office due to mental incapacity. It's sounding more and more like a good idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 12:05 AM

Well...I have to kind of wonder a bit about the sanity of almost anyone who deliberately sets out to become President of the USA!

Specially in recent years.

Would a truly normal person want that job? Narcissism may in fact be a necessary requirement for almost anyone seeking that office in the first place...although...I won't completely discount the possibility that a genuine saint would take on the job out of a sense of duty and service to the nation. (Kucinich comes to mind) But...what chance would such a highly motivated and selfless individual have of ever getting enough financial support from his party and its media backers to have even the ghost of a chance of running a winning campaign?

Zilch! ;-D Not a hope in hell. The parties pick candidates who represent established interests...NOT progressive changes!

Obama got lots of funding...he was by far the best funded candidate in 2008.

He has proven to be merely a quasi-liberal trojan horse for neocon corporate-backed war interests...just like Tony Blair did when he was elected in the UK. The British thought they were voting in a progressive when they elected Tony Blair. They were dead wrong! The American liberal left has experienced the same shocking disappointment in Mr Obama...but some of them just aren't ready to admit it yet. Besides...they hate the damn Republicans so much that supporting Obama is their automatic reaction no matter what he does or doesn't do. They'd support him even if he attacked Iran, killed millions, and took away every last civil right they have left...just so they could keep sticking it to the Republicans!!!!! (and if the stark raving mad Republicans did get in, they'd very likely be even worse than Obama).

That's how the old 2-party "divide-and-conquer" tactic works in the USA. Heads they win! Tails you lose! Either way, the corporatocracy wins every election. As long as big corporate money funds your elections, I can't see any way of changing that. The media are the message. And the coporates own the media. Closed circle. You are already living in George Orwell's controlled 1984 society, but USA-style, that's all...and that requires that your 2 parties act as a fig leaf to cover the corrupt financial Oligarchy that owns both of them, body and soul.

I have no recommendations at all for what you can do about it, no solution for your vanished democracy, because I am not Superman and I am not God.

Just stating what I see happening in the USA, that's all. Nothing more than that. I can do nothing about it, and I know it. Like you, I simply want to know what's really going on in the world, and I sometimes can't resist commenting on it. If my comments bug you...(shrug)...what difference could it really make? How important is it that we disagree about something? Will it matter in 50 years? Will anyone remember it in even 1 year? I don't think so. So don't sweat it.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 12:37 AM

. . . blah blah blah blah blah. . . .

Still beating the same old hum-drum.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 02:18 AM

"Waist Deep in the Big Muddy and the Big Fool Says to Push On"....Seeger

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 03:42 AM

"I voted for Obama, but..."

So vote for Romney this time around...and get Obama again..unless you can't see past skin color!

Damn, now that Kucinich is out...he would be free to run with Paul as Independents....only to find out opening week, what the guys who OWN the government will allow them to do.
Ever notice how that pesky ol' Constitution needs an owned party to get it out of the way???..that way the 'devotees' will rationalize it away, that it's O.K.!!!!

"We LOVE it that way!
We love it that way, everyday
And we hope that the bad times are here to stay..
Fa la la la la, la la la la laaa
We all love to sing our American Waltz
It's our dream come false..
Fa la la la la, la la la, la laaa"

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: kendall
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 09:22 AM

If the democrats get in we are screwed. If the republicans get in we are raped.
Some choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 09:29 AM

"There's a movement to remove him from office due to mental incapacity. "

Care to provide any links to this movement or should we just take your word for it? Which is fine because we all trust you implicitly.

"The problem with quotes on the internet is you never know if they are genuine - Abraham Lincoln"


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 10:38 AM

So, Songwronger... what's your day job? Writing copy for Rush Limbaugh?


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 10:46 AM

Mental incapacity? That's Santorum, for sure. Or Gingrich. No, WAIT! its Ron Paul with the black helicopters && all that.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 10:59 AM

How quickly we forget- if we ever even noticed in the first place...

http://juneauempire.com/opinion/2012-03-23/pro-liberals-must-stand-president#.T2yRfdVKHE0

(President) Obama abolished the United States' use of torture and the CIA's secret prisons. He restored the liberal internationalist approach to foreign policy and made a historic outreach to the Muslim world. He stabilized an economy that was spiraling into a depression.

He expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit and made major investments in job training, education, infrastructure, clean energy, housing and scientific research. He saved the automobile industry.
He forced the health insurance companies to stop excluding people with preexisting conditions and to stop dropping people when they got sick. He made an enormous and historic gain toward universal health care. He signed a financial reform bill that established a consumer protection agency and put most derivative trading on an open exchange under the regulatory umbrella.
He ended the war in Iraq exactly as he promised.
He ended "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." He blocked Republicans from eliminating federal funding for Planned Parenthood. He suspended deportation proceedings against illegal immigrants lacking a criminal record. He has supported family unity in immigration policy. He stood up to the oil lobby on the Keystone XL pipeline. And he has represented the United States with consummate dignity.
Somehow, all of this is routinely discounted or forgotten. If Obama does not win a second term, a Republican administration will savage Medicare and Medicaid, enact yet another massive tax cut for the 1 percent, and try to privatize Social Security. Obama, for all his shortcomings, is still indispensable to the cause of ending the Reagan era, and of preventing something even worse than the administration he succeeded.

• Dorrien is Reinhold Niebuhr Professor of Social Ethics at Union Theological Seminary and professor of religion at Columbia University.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 02:03 PM

Kendall: "If the democrats get in we are screwed. If the republicans get in we are raped.
Some choice."

Ah!....Reality strikes again!!...The same people OWN both parties, and the agenda is THEIRS, not ours, 'WE the PEOPLE'...and we virtually have NO say. We don't get to vote for the puppeteers, just the puppets!
Good observation Kendall!

As to Ebbie's....just more duped partisan nonsense from the naive....ask Kendall!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 03:08 PM

But we CAN'T re-elect Obama. He's Muslim, he was born in Kenya, and he's WAY the wrong color.

How do I know all this?

Klaatu landed in my back yard last night and HE told me so!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 03:38 PM

So THATS what "barada nikto" means!


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 04:08 PM

Now THAT'S what I call a LOSS for a salient argument!!!
..but bordering on the absurd, is your stock and trade!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 08:25 PM

Obama is the only adult in the race... And it ain't even close...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 10:40 PM

Symptom of a psychotic....doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results

Actually this isn't my thread...I wasn't so STUPID to vote for him, nor would I be.....I'll leave that to the psychotics...wanting a handout, and going for the bribe!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 10:49 PM

Yeah, you would have voted for, ahhhhhh, Ron Paul, GfinS...

Talk about stupid...

Start a thread defending Ron Paul's policies on everything but war and we can rumble...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 12:24 AM

There you go again!..I didn't vote for Ron Paul, in the last election. He was not even on the ballot!
I guess it doesn't matter how wrong you keep getting stuff....no wonder a 'light' never goes on. If you don't get fed bullshit, you make it up to feed everyone else!!

Non-stop propaganda machines!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Songwronger
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 11:42 PM

My state will go for Romney this time around, so I'll vote for one of the third parties. Still hoping for a Paul/Kucinich ticket.

Never thought I'd support the mass-murderer Obama, but I think that this time around he's better than the other elite candidate (we only have one party in America, and its two heads this time are pretty beastly).

Romney's an animal. Anyone who would put "asset stripper" on his resume has a lot to answer for out of the gate. And then there's the cult issue. He's a member of one wacked-out cult. That's fine for him, but not for me. I don't want him and his cult in Washington.

So that means that of the two major puppets, I hope Obama wins. He's slightly less insane than Romney, and a WHOLE lot more vulnerable. Obama would be impeached in his second term. Fast and Furious alone will do that, but if he manages to connive a win over the wishes of the banking elite, then they'll drag out the big guns to bring him down. Lots of skeletons in his closet.

So I won't vote for Obama this time, but I hope he beats Romney. Obama, the greatest American traitor I've seen in my lifetime, but I hope he wins so we can properly deal with him.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 12:17 AM

SW:

Go pound sand, pal. Youa re so far off the beam it is arguable you are on some other planet.



A


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 05:22 AM

Prez al- Obama
Puppet
(:-( P)=


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: kendall
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 08:55 AM

Obama is a long way from perfect, but, Mitt is even further away from it.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 09:37 AM

Mitt far from being perfect ???

Mitt is a lying sack of crap and a chameleon into the bargain.

He would be an absolute disaster for the country.


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Subject: RE: BS: I voted for Obama, but...
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 10:09 AM

Let's hope enough of us see that. I can't imagine a woman voting for that pair.


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