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BS: Wall Street Protesters...

Related threads:
Occupy Wall Street Songs (33)
a song for Wall Street (6)
BS: The Meaning of OWS (Occupy Wall Street) (31)
PETE (Seeger at Occupy Wall Street) (21)
Songs For The 99% (11)


Lox 03 Nov 11 - 08:32 AM
GUEST,TIA 03 Nov 11 - 07:53 AM
GUEST,beardedbruce 03 Nov 11 - 07:51 AM
Lox 02 Nov 11 - 07:01 AM
GUEST,TIA 01 Nov 11 - 10:45 PM
Bobert 01 Nov 11 - 09:40 PM
Suffet 01 Nov 11 - 09:31 PM
Bobert 01 Nov 11 - 05:59 PM
GUEST,999 01 Nov 11 - 05:54 PM
dick greenhaus 01 Nov 11 - 05:35 PM
GUEST,999 01 Nov 11 - 05:30 PM
dick greenhaus 01 Nov 11 - 05:04 PM
Don Firth 01 Nov 11 - 03:44 PM
Stringsinger 01 Nov 11 - 02:47 PM
BTNG 01 Nov 11 - 02:28 PM
Donuel 01 Nov 11 - 02:25 PM
Donuel 01 Nov 11 - 02:23 PM
Bobert 01 Nov 11 - 01:00 PM
GUEST,999 01 Nov 11 - 11:45 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 01 Nov 11 - 10:58 AM
GUEST,TIA 01 Nov 11 - 10:01 AM
Bobert 01 Nov 11 - 08:51 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 01 Nov 11 - 02:20 AM
GUEST,999 01 Nov 11 - 01:35 AM
ollaimh 01 Nov 11 - 12:30 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 01 Nov 11 - 12:19 AM
Bobert 31 Oct 11 - 10:30 PM
GUEST,TIA 31 Oct 11 - 10:17 PM
Suffet 31 Oct 11 - 06:27 PM
GUEST,999 31 Oct 11 - 01:09 PM
akenaton 31 Oct 11 - 01:01 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 31 Oct 11 - 12:04 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 31 Oct 11 - 10:43 AM
Bobert 31 Oct 11 - 09:52 AM
akenaton 31 Oct 11 - 03:58 AM
GUEST,999 30 Oct 11 - 11:42 PM
Suffet 30 Oct 11 - 11:05 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 11 - 07:35 PM
Little Hawk 30 Oct 11 - 07:30 PM
GUEST,999 30 Oct 11 - 07:29 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 11 - 07:13 PM
akenaton 30 Oct 11 - 07:10 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 11 - 07:05 PM
Lox 30 Oct 11 - 06:55 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 30 Oct 11 - 06:55 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 11 - 06:46 PM
Don Firth 30 Oct 11 - 06:19 PM
akenaton 30 Oct 11 - 05:33 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 30 Oct 11 - 05:15 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 11 - 05:10 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 08:32 AM

"The Tea Party was formed as a result of opposition to the bailouts. "

The tea party was neither spontaneous, grassroots nor concerned with the welfare of the ordinary man, but was engineered by those at the top to prevent their corporate interests from being curtailed and to try to deregulate further so they could behave even more recklesssly and selfishly than ever before.

The Occupy movement has nothing in common with the tea party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 07:53 AM

The fact they they have not merged is revealing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 07:51 AM

I think this is still worthy of discussion, but had fallen off the page.



With over 20% supporting the Tea Party, and 40-60% supporting the OWS, one would think that BOTH groups would explore common ground. The Tea Party was formed as a result of opposition to the bailouts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 07:01 AM

Same old struggle - the only difference is social media.

Here's an excerpt from Abe Lincolns State of the union adress on Dec 3rd 1861.

Beautiful stuff.

Enjoy ...

"It is not needed nor fitting here that a general argument should be made in favor of popular institutions, but there is one point, with its connections, not so hackneyed as most others, to which I ask a brief attention. It is the effort to place capital on an equal footing with, if not above, labor in the structure of government. It is assumed that labor is available only in connection with capital; that nobody labors unless somebody else, owning capital, somehow by the use of it induces him to labor. This assumed, it is next considered whether it is best that capital shall hire laborers, and thus induce them to work by their own consent, or buy them and drive them to it without their consent. Having proceeded so far, it is naturally concluded that all laborers are either hired laborers or what we call slaves. And further, it is assumed that whoever is once a hired laborer is fixed in that condition for life.

Now there is no such relation between capital and labor as assumed, nor is there any such thing as a free man being fixed for life in the condition of a hired laborer. Both these assumptions are false, and all inferences from them are groundless.

Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. Capital has its rights, which are as worthy of protection as any other rights. Nor is it denied that there is, and probably always will be, a relation between labor and capital producing mutual benefits. The error is in assuming that the whole labor of community exists within that relation. A few men own capital, and that few avoid labor themselves, and with their capital hire or buy another few to labor for them. A large majority belong to neither class--neither work for others nor have others working for them. In most of the Southern States a majority of the whole people of all colors are neither slaves nor masters, while in the Northern a large majority are neither hirers nor hired. Men, with their families--wives, sons, and daughters--work for themselves on their farms, in their houses, and in their shops, taking the whole product to themselves, and asking no favors of capital on the one hand nor of hired laborers or slaves on the other. It is not forgotten that a considerable number of persons mingle their own labor with capital; that is, they labor with their own hands and also buy or hire others to labor for them; but this is only a mixed and not a distinct class. No principle stated is disturbed by the existence of this mixed class."


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 10:45 PM

Steve-
Booyah!
The cops are the 99% in spades, and they seem to be getting it.
Locally, we are next to the police station, and they are totally letting us use the facilities inside. I tell everyone to leave it cleaner than they found it.
Our local paper carries a syndicated cartoon (Mallard Fillmore) that tries to portray us as dirty hippies, and of course Faux News is doing their Master's bidding, but anyone who bothers to look for themselves sees respect, compassion, and egalitarianism. I hope to meet you someday. Keep it up. You too Bobert.


PS
Anybody else going to encircle the Whitehouse on Sunday?


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 09:40 PM

Well, here in Charlotte, I have made an effort to have conversations with the cops... Nothin' heavy... Football is always safe... Just pus a human face before them that doesn't look at them as the enemy... Lotta that going on with the youngin's...l I see the young folks trying to engage the cops with friendly conversation... That's a big change from the 60s...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Suffet
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 09:31 PM

Greetings:

I went for a haircut today and the guy in the chair next to me starting talking about Occupy Wall Street. He said that his son, a New York City policeman, loves it. Why? Because he gets to volunteer for lots of easy overtime. This past Sunday, for example, his son volunteered for two shifts and got triple overtime for each, meaning he made as much in one day as he would make in six days walking his beat. Also, his son said that it's easy work. The protesters are respectful, they comply with most requests, an they keep the place clean. Also, they fly lots of American flags. And they have lots of veterans there, at least during the day. And plenty of union workers, too, real stand-up guys. OK, his son said, it gets really noisy during the day, especially at lunchtime when the drumming starts, but then it quiets down, and at night, when maybe 300 or 400 people sleep over in the park, it's really quiet. And no one is smoking weed or getting drunk, and that's something you can't say about the big parades in New York.

One more thing his son said is that the cops have lots of snitches planted in the park, but they're not really needed. Absolutely everything the protesters do they announce publicly, so there should be no real surprises. The only time there is potential for trouble is when groups of protesters march out of Zuccotti Park, and then it's cool as long as they stay on the sidewalk two abreast, keep moving, and don't block traffic. Anyway, the cops can use scooters to keep marchers out of the roadway. However, one time the sergeant in charge didn't realize the marchers were going to break up into three groups, and she (the sergeant) hadn't assigned enough cops with scooters to follow all three contingents as they went their separate ways. The brass apparent reamed her out for that intelligence failure.

So I asked him if his son told him whether the cops are sympathetic to the protesters or not, and he said not at first, but then they didn't know what to expect. The longer the protest goes on, his son told him, the more open the cops are to the protesters. Then he said again how the American flags are a good sign, and his son wishes that some of the big parades would carry that many American flags. Also his son said the cops hear that the food is really good, but they are not allowed to have any. There are strict NYPD rules against taking anything for free, even if it's offered free to anyone, and even if they come back when they are off duty and out of uniform.

--- Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 05:59 PM

The way I see it, the union guys in the 20's and 30's got the ball a little down the field and the IPP a little further and then me and my buds in the 60's got it a little further down the field and now it's the OWSers turn to do the heavy lifting...

One thing for sure is that Boss Hog has never been so confident that he can turn the clock back a 100 years so the lifting this time is going to be a lot harder...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 05:54 PM

Dick, did you grab post 666 on purpose?

I'd agree with you were we talking about Canada. I think that by the time the next election comes around here we'll be able to mobilize enough support for the NDP to radically change the balance of power in the House of Commons. However, it's the us under discussion.

The next election leaves y'all with a choice of Tweedledee or Tweedledum, both of which/whom have been complicit in the collapse of your economy and the pillaging of the American people. So I ask, sincerely, change what from within the existing structure?


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 05:35 PM

What's your alternative?

When the Red Revolution Brings Its Solution Along

When the Red Revolution brings its solution along, along,
There'll be no more lootin'
'Cause we'll be shootin' that Wall Street throng!
Wake up, you proletarians! Don't act like seminarians!
Expropriate barbarians! Build a worker's republic!
Surplus value and capital you will not find there -
Exploitation and mass starvation will disappear.
I'm just a Red again, saying what I said again -
No boss ere long -
When the Red Revolution brings its solution along!


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 05:30 PM

The existing political structure is part of the problem, Dick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 05:04 PM

"It stressed that there was an alternative to the "Tweedle-dum, Tweedle-Dee Parties". Leading , effectively to over another half- century of Tweedle-dum party rule.
"Come down to the Occupy Movement and talk to people. Many read, and many well educated, tthey respond and they are involved"
You can say exactly the same thing about the Tea Party.

My point, again, is that a large impassioned movement is more apt to accomplish something if its energies are directed towards specific objectives within the existing political structure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 03:44 PM

Exactly so, Strings!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 02:47 PM

"I was around (and active) back in 1947 where a massive protest wound up producing some good songs, the Progressive Party and not much else. "

Dick, I was there also. I can't believe how wrong you are. The IPP set the stage for much of what happened in the Sixties including the Civil Rights Movement. It stressed that there was an alternative to the "Tweedle-dum, Tweedle-Dee Parties".
It supported unions that made inroads into safety codes, better wages and a prosperous Fifties. It exposed the racism of the South, the hangings and the crazies that started White Citizen Councils. It lay the groundwork for the inimitable Pete Seeger (he cut his career in the Henry Wallace Campaign) who has exerted tremendous influence on the folk music scene without whom there would be no Mudcat. It made many aware of the pitfalls of Capitalism although it was not covered in the mainstream press as it is not being covered now.

I am part of the 99% protest and instead of calling us protesters, I am taking my cue from Thom Hartmann and referring to us as Patriots. We are the change we want. Goals? There are so many and they are all interconnected. Two of them are
1. let the rich pay their fair share of taxes and 2. stop these wasteful and meaningless wars. I'm glad that simplistic labels can't be place on this movement.
Every one of us is a leader and a spokesperson for this movement and we are growing day by day. This movement is not only an extension of the Civil Rights Movement, it is uniquely revolutionary and an important part of American history.
There will always be those who cynically diss us and say "What's the use?" and my response is "Why do you think you are alive?"

There are all walks-of-life of us out there demanding justice because without that, there will be no peace. We are making a difference by showing America what a police state looks like here, how corporations and congressional leaders have become corrupted,how platitudes and sneering comments by nay-sayers mean nothing in the face of authentic social change. As to the charge of ignorance leveled against us, I say, you really ought to get out more. Come down to the Occupy Movement and talk to people. Many read, and many well educated, they respond and they are involved. Many of us have not made a lot of money in our lives but have found meaning that can't be bought by wealthy parasites.

As the old cliche goes, "Lead, follow, or get out of the way!"

We are the Patriots and the 99%'ers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: BTNG
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 02:28 PM

Isn't this Missisippi law being brought to us my some of the same crowd that declared that IVF was infringing on "God's work" and was wholly unnatural and blasphemous

My feeling is that this law is aimed at, amongst others, the Pro-Choice lobby


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 02:25 PM

Bobert I have been to the local, Philly and New Yoicks OWS demonstrations, I didn't see too much through the dark tinted limo glass but I saw enough;)


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 02:23 PM

A new shit head Missisippi law has made some more things people.
The law states that any fertilized egg/blastopore of a human clone, frozen embryo or human being is now a person that carries with it all the laws and protections of the US Constitution and all laws of of the State of Missisippi.

The reducto absurdium laws that are being passed around the country are the product of biblical law. These new religioun based laws express some of the same dangers these people were afraid of when they redundantly passed anti Sharia law in fear that religion would become the basis for the law of the land.

A woman can be andicted for murder if anything untoward causes the egg to die, such as taking a day after pill. To provide saftey from this new law a dozen new laws woll have to follow so that parents of the egg can not be arrested for abandonment or endangerment of the egg, expecially in fertility clinic freezers.

Whats up with that?

As it stands Downs syndrome eggs will be required to go to term, the doctor can be held as an acessory to murder and since the egg now has all legal rights of a person (child and adult) what are the new tax laws and dependent deductions going to be? Dggs that are forzen are abused? kidnapped?
Sure its absurd but there are humdreds of politically elected district attorneys who have a new weapon to use at their own perverted descretion that carries with it a capital crime.

If these eggs and corporations get together, normal humans will be official second class citizens.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 01:00 PM

The "bastard shitheads" in this case is that 2nd legislative branch, the judiciary, brucie... Congress, or the Founding Fathers, never said that corporations were people... The Supreme Court did...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 11:45 AM

"...and 'corporations' and unions, are not the same as individual people, when it comes to 'donations'(read: bribes)!"

Too true, but hey, it's the LAW. Bastard shitheads rammed that one through.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 10:58 AM

THAT I can agree!
...and 'corporations' and unions, are not the same as individual people, when it comes to 'donations'(read: bribes)!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 10:01 AM

Public funding for elections.
Fixed amount, same for each, can't use any more...not even your own.
And no activity by outside groups allowed, whether it's specific to a candidate or not.
Draconian? You bet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 08:51 AM

Bottom line, we get the $$$$ out of politics and the rest are details...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 02:20 AM

Well I certainly took a lot of shit, for placing the blame on the real problem, while other (morons) were playing a partisan game, complete with stupid attack talking points, and refusals to admit the real problem...until their party belatedly admitted that there was 'something wrong'!!!!....

but don't worry.......my arm is just fine, thank you for your concern!

GfS

P.S. So is my 'sanity'...sorry about theirs!


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 01:35 AM

"(see Kucinich letter, and what I've been saying for months)"

You are not the only one who's been saying it for months. Don't break your arm patting your back.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: ollaimh
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 12:30 AM

i agree with tose who say that the securitues foisted on banks and the governemnt are dressed up junk bonds. the bankc et al stopped backing the new securities with any reserve when the final regulations were lifted in 1990-92. after that they quadrupilled the securites traded with these derivitives based on other un backed securities. it's much worse than the junk bind scandal in the eighties but it's so bad that to actually crahre the culprits would have the potential to bring down the whole system. so so far the oversight people do nothing.

when obama started to regulate the knox bros put a half a billion into the tea party movement. obama got the message.

the real tragedy was that the federal government didn't get any assets for the bails out. if they had an equity stake in the bailed out banks then they could audit and see the full story. especially oif they took a stake in several key institutions in new york and get control over the north east section of the federal reserve. then they could have audited the whole federal reserve.

but that would be socialism.

i love seeing these kids out protrsting, however having fought the over fushing issues sown east and the logging abuses out west and seeing the corporations win win win i am not optimistic.

as leonard cohen said"the rich have got their channels in the bedrooms of the poor"

i repeat that in 1990 over eight per cent and as much as above ninety per cent of the securities traded on the new york markets didn't exist in any form. they congured them from thin air and took the money and ran


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 12:19 AM

The very basic problem with this whole thing, is that the 'protesters' are protesting just Wall Street alone, and not the corrupt politicians of BOTH parties(see Kucinich letter, and what I've been saying for months), who facilitate the screwing of the American public. The other problem is, that these 'protesters' are actually weakening the validity of their complaints by widespread lameness.
The 'left' has 'seized the moment', much akin to the Tea party...but their real support won't come from where they think it should. The unions will give limited support, because their funds ARE tied up in Wall Street, and have corrupted both politicians and bankers as well! So how far will this go?....till violence, weather, or just lameness?
From a lot of press coverage, a lot of these people don't even know doodily-squat about anything deeper than shallow participation....and as Steve's post, some of the people who he listed ARE supporting the 'movement'...but not for the desired reasons, that the 'movement', is about.
It appears that other than a bunch of people showing up, the message is obscured, by the lightweights.
But, I will say this, that, at least the is attention being focused on at least PART of the problem.
As far as its effectiveness.....well, it would help if they weren't 'just occupying'...but had a more realistic goal, and aimed it at the right direction....with people who might want to get a clue!
Otherwise, it will lose it's effective message.....we've seen it before, in regards to other 'causes'.
Anyway, 'HI!'.....I was out of town on a 'bidness twip'..

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:30 PM

Yup, the most vocal critics of OWS know nothing about it...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:17 PM

Steve-
Total agreement. The people who buy into the Faux News characterizations you listed have NOT been out here.
They are talking out their asses.
Stay warm and dry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Suffet
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 06:27 PM

Greeting:

I spent another day at the Occupy Wall Street encampment in Zuccotti Park in New York City, mostly singing labor songs, but also singing a few songs from the Civil Rights Movement, as well as leading a small group in singing Merle Travis's Sixteen Tons. "Another day older and deeper in debt..." is not some historical artifact. The only thing that has changed in that Citibank, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, et al. have replaced the company store.

Among the people who were listening and singing along today were several from the OWS Labor Working Group, men and women active in various unions. They particularly enjoyed my song Union Warriors and asked for a recording and a printed copy of the lyrics, both of which I was able to give them. They also asked if I would be interested in singing it in a scheduled performance to be arranged, to which I answered "Of course." What else could I say?

Meanwhile, let me add that OWS has not been problem free. It has faced and still faces many challenges. Among these are sanitation, security, community relations, dealing with the police and other authorities, and dealing with the weather. But as difficult as these may be, the OWS community has in each instance risen to the challenge in a humane, respectful, serious, and democratic way that considers the importance of both process and product. I am impressed, and I am not one who is easily impressed.

--- Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 01:09 PM

Ake, thank you very much.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 01:01 PM

Boom Boom!! :0).....very funny Sanity!


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 12:04 PM

Five surgeons from big cities are discussing who makes the
best patients to operate on.

The first surgeon, from New York , says, "I like to see
accountants on my operating table because when you open them
up, everything inside is numbered.."

The second , from Chicago , responds, "Yeah, but you should
try electricians !   Everything inside them is color coded."

The third surgeon, from Dallas , says, "No, I really think
librarians are the best, everything inside them is in alphabetical
order"

The fourth surgeon, from Los Angeles chimes in: "You know,
I like construction workers ... Those guys always understand when
you have a few parts left over."

But the fifth surgeon, from Washington DC , shut them all up when he observed:
"You're all wrong. Politicians are the easiest to operate on.
There's no guts, no heart, no balls, no brains, and no spine. Plus, the head and the ass are interchangeable.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:43 AM

Steve,
..or all of the above.....

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 09:52 AM

One thing that Boss Hog has at his disposal, Steve, is a 100% lock on BOG MEDIA which he uses as his propaganda mill... But it goes well beyond that... The crooks have hundreds, perhaps thousands, of hired blog/goons who get paid to sit in front of their computers and put out as much bullshit propaganda as they can think of...

I go to the Washington Post discussions every day and I could name the folks who are being paid to highjack threads and propagate lies... I'd like to know how much $$$ Boss Hog pumps into his overall propaganda every day... I'd really like to know that...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 03:58 AM

Sorry if I sounded patronising B.
I suppose what I'm saying, is that I've been against the system most of my life, my comrades and I have had very little help from the "liberals" who seems to be flocking to this new movement.
In fact they always treated "radicals" as their enemy.
I dont think most of the OWS people really understand the problems involved, or the reality of the situation.

This is not Libya, or Egypt....This is a serious,organised and well armed state with a "democratic mandate"(yes, I know), but that will be thrown at you just as it was thrown at us.
The Media are having a bit of fun and creating stories at the moment, but they are controlled by the powers you are opposing and soon they will start the hate campaign.

Change will not be achieved overnight, or even in a generation in this type of society, when most people still believe that they have a stake in its continuance.
Confronting the system will certainly set the majority against you, and they will be bolstered by the media.
It has all happened before, we must realise as I have done, that this evil system is never going to vanish with the next sunrise...and that none of us are going to see its passing....But we can make a start by understanding how this system works and refusing to be divided politically by the tactics it uses....Ake


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 11:42 PM

'The view always looks the same to everyone except the lead dog.'

Thank you once again, Steve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Suffet
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 11:05 PM

Greetings:

Marilyn and I just spent part of another day at the Occupy Wall Street encampment in Zuccotti Park, New York City, and if I'm feeling well enough after a doctor's appointment tomorrow morning we will go back there again.

One can tell that the Occupy movement is obviously being taking seriously just by the viciousness and frequency of the rumors, distortions, and outright lies told about it. Among these are:

• The movement is racist and/or it is anti-Semitic. Blacks, Asians, and Latinos have all been made to feel unwelcome, while Jews have been harassed, ridiculed, and accused of being the enemy.

• The movement was started by a bunch of spoiled trust fund kids who feel guilty about their wealth and/or hate their parents.

• The movement is secretly controlled by George Soros, Nancy Pelosi, Big Labor, and/or Barack Obama.

• The American Nazi Party is behind it. So is the Communist Party USA, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Lyndon Larouche, Ron Paul, remnants of the KGB, and a secret team within the CIA.

• Its participants have been armed with AK47s, they have initiated attacks on the police, and they have spit upon men and women in uniform.

• And of course, its participants are giving drugs to and/or having sex with minors. There have even been some underage girls forced or tricked into prostitution.

So what's next? Kidnapping the Lindbergh baby?

--- Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:35 PM

Dennis has always had it correct...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:30 PM

Here is Dennis Kucinich's latest comment on the Occupy Wall Street movement, sent out by email in the last couple of days:

Occupy

Dear Friends,

An Iraq War veteran who survived two tours of duty gets his skull fractured in ... Oakland!
53 activists arrested in Atlanta. SWAT teams deployed to boot out peaceful protesters.

Recent actions against Occupy protesters are irresponsible and tragic. They're an assault on our democracy. These protesters are bravely exercising their right to freedom of expression, to bring attention to a political and economic system that's rigged against most Americans. I stand with them; and, all Americans -- left and right -- should join me in protecting their freedom to non-violently create change.

This isn't a Democratic or Republican movement. It's not about one party or one policy. It's about standing up to a financial system that's completely backwards. Wall Street banks get billions in bailouts and emerge with massive profits. Most Americans see a program of austerity in a painful economic climate -- benefit cuts, high unemployment, declining wages, and crumbling infrastructure. Congress moved swiftly to "save" banks (something I strongly opposed), and now Congress is paralyzed, unable to create jobs and to save our middle class.

It's no surprise Americans are standing up. Our country's economic policies have consolidated and accelerated wealth to the top. One percent of Americans now control 42% of our wealth. It's not radical to think this is out of balance or to demand a government that is of the people and for the people. I've been to these protests, and I can tell you they're filled with honest, hard working Americans who are concerned with the direction of our country and our economic future.

I am deeply concerned. I'm concerned about an economic system which tethers job creation to China and big banks. We shouldn't have to borrow money from China -- or Japan or South Korea -- to get out of this ditch. We should stop the Fed from giving billions to the big banks. We have to take back the power to manage our own economy, to regain control over our monetary system, consistent with the U.S. Constitution. That's why, one month ago, I introduced the National Emergency Employment Defense (NEED) Act. The legislation would put the Federal Reserve under the Department of the Treasury, and it would help us recapture control of our financial system. As part of the NEED Act, Congress would use its constitutional power to invest in America, creating millions of jobs by putting billions of dollars directly into circulation. And since this money is adding real, tangible value to our national wealth, it will not generate inflation.

We need a financial system that is of the people and for the people. We need to take it back from the big banks. We need economic and social justice. I will continue to support the Occupy movement. I will continue to fight for legislation, including the NEED Act, that sets America on a path of jobs for all, health care for all, education for all, retirement security for all, and peace.

Let's keep this movement alive. Let's keep fighting for economic and social justice. Keep occupying Wall Street. And, with your help, I'll keep occupying Congress.

With respect,


Dennis


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:29 PM

"Unity is the only way, Unity with the "fearful and confused" majority.......not OWS btw, they are just "confused" :0)"

Before OWS, Ake, what exactly was the so-called majority doing? That's a serious question I'd love an answer to. Looks to me like the 'majority' hasn't been doing a damned thing other than being a majority. So help me out here and explain, if you'd be so kind. I am trying to understand where you are coming from on this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:13 PM

No, ake... If you go down the list of things that OWS wants, the polling of the American people are firmly behind them ***all***... So, it is you who is wrong... Not Don...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:10 PM

Don ...sorry, you are wrong. The people who want to change the system are much in the minority.....its important to recognise that.
We are STILL relatively affluent, we will not be willing to face the issues for a decade at least, and by that time the UK and US, will probably have been converted to "Police States"

Unity is the only way, Unity with the "fearful and confused" majority.......not OWS btw, they are just "confused" :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:05 PM

Yeah, Lox... I agree that OWS has overridden the huge corporate media propaganda machine called BIG MEDIA...

I am getting concerned that Boss Hog is looking at a play out of the Ghadaffi playbook with his militaristic responses of late...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:55 PM

Its all about the social media folks.


Whoever controls the media controls the people.

So if the people control their own media, they become empowered.


Dividing the people and isolating them is the other way of controlling people.

Social Media connects people together.


Finally, a capitalist is not a person who follows any ideology.

A capitalist is one who owns the capital.

i.e. the 1%

(its in the dictionary)


So if the 1% own most of the capital, and if the 1% need to be properly taxed, and if the 1% need to be regulated better, then it is linguistically accurate to say that the capitalists are the focus of these demos.

It isn't necessarily socialism, because - like the riots - it isn't about any kind of prescriptive ideology - its organic and issues based - one issue at a time.

Just sayin ...


And Q, if you think that the social media revolution is just a fad, you clearly have your head in the sand.

We don't know how its gonna pan out, but we live in fast changing times. The power is coming to the people and we have only seen the tiniest glimpse of what it is capable of.

And there is nothing that can be done to stop it - just like with music piracy - you shut one thing down, and another springs up - you make one thing inaccessible and another way of getting there springs up ...

... the grapevine has gone fibre optic ...

... the collective conscious has developed neural pathways ...

I can't see how reactionary thought can survive unless a new fascist movement is engineered.

... it may happen yet ... it might be the only way to keep the people down ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:55 PM

Don Firth: "I don't think the OWS folks are "fearful and confused," Ake......"


Only Bobert and I am!


GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:46 PM

Yes, Q, in a fascists and militaristic state, you can be 100% correct and still lose... The fascists will do as they always have... We understand this reality... Mubarak and Ghadaffi didn't go quietly either...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:19 PM

I don't think the OWS folks are "fearful and confused," Ake. The folks I've talked to know exactly what the problem is and how to fix it. And there are a LOT of them. Not all of them are actually out there--physically. But they are THERE, never doubt that.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 05:33 PM

Dont fancy deliverence Bob!

I advocate unity.....isolate the political class, stop seeing our brothers and sisters as the "enemy".

A politically motivated minority seeking confrontation with a fearful, confused majority, will be swiftly liquidated!


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 05:15 PM

The police are beginning to sweep the streets of these nuisances.
As soon as the cold weather hits, they will retire to their burrows.
Protesters arrested in Austin, Portland, Tacoma, Denver, etc.
A headline in a Calgary paper calls for their removal from Olympic Plaza in the downtown area.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 05:10 PM

2 choices, Ake...

"Deliverance" or not...

You might like "Deliverance"... I don't...

B~


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