BS: Wall Street Protesters...

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:20 PM

The park where the protestors are camped out is private property. Unsanitary, unsightly and noisy conditions are a nuisance and hazard for residents and workers in the vicinity.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 08:19 PM

the local equivalent of bulldozers go in at 7 am local time

Of course they do. That's how "the Man" has always dealt with peaceful protest- the Bonus Army and Coxey's Army come to mind out of dozens of examples.

Its a great tredition in The Land Of The Free.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 08:24 PM

Rule by a corrupt Oligarchy is a hazard to virtually everyone.

Right of peaceable assembly to protest corruption is a given in any free society...but apparently only until it starts to worry those in charge of the corruption. ;-) Nothing new about that! It's one of the oldest stories in the world. I doubt that there is any place in the vicinity of Wall Street where these demonstrations could go on for long without the big hired fist of society's financial elite coming down to stop it on the basis of some supposed "hazard", that hazard being to themselves.

Excuses will always be found by those in power as to why those not in power can't be allowed to stage a peaceful demonstration...and those in power will use force to stop it...pretending that they are protecting society by so doing. Some people will believe them.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Suffet
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 08:27 PM

FYI, Q...

Zuccotti Plaza is indeed privately owned, but its owners agreed to make it into a public space accessible 24 hours a day in return for a zoning variance.

I have been to the site seven times, and it is not at all unsanitary. If anything, it is very well maintained. As far as noise goes, yes, there is a lot during the day. But have you ever been to that part of Lower Manhattan? During the day it is just as noisy without the Occupy Wall Street encampment. Unsightly, of course, is is the eye of the beholder. So is nuisance. There are no residents in the vicinity, since it purely a commercial area. As far as being a hazard for workers, I never saw how that is possible. No one has to enter Zuccotti Plaza, since the sidewalks go around it. But even if someone does enter the plaza, what hazard is there?

--- Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Suffet
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 08:35 PM

Greetings:

If you enjoy my song Union Warriors, here is a link to a studio recording which you are welcome to download for free until the end of this month. You are also welcome to listen to it on-line for free without any time limit.

Go for it!

--- Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 08:41 PM

Ths OWS people themselves are keeping the park clean. That said, similar things are happening across the country (US) and very soon, Canada. The protesters are not screaming radicals. They are ordinary people who will continue to protest until such time as fundamental changes are made to banking laws and the methods by which corporate financial transactions occur. No more free rides for corporations. No more free rides for banks.

About 60 MILLION people in the US are living below the poverty line. What part of that is hard for people to understand?

And speaking of people, when protests of this sort happened against the Vietnam War, the presidents at least mentioned them. Where is the present president and what is he saying? I tried Google news but found nothing. Can anyone point me to a credible source?

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 09:03 PM

From Obama's press conference last week. He acknowledges the protest and that people are dissatisfied, but it's an opportunity to hit a talking point or several. I suppose it's not so bad, since the talking points are about how to fix things, but I wish there had been more about the people.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 09:14 PM

Friday, Zuccotti Park will be closed by the owners, one-third at a time, for cleaning. The company emphasizes the need for park rules to be followed- no tents or sleeping bags, no sidewalk obstructions, no storing of private property, no laying on benches.

The upshot will be interesting. There have been reports of trouble makers moving to the site.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 09:22 PM

I expect there will be trouble makers in Montreal, Q. Just the way it is. When people feel disenfranchised, as so many do, stuff happens. The problem has been mention before:

"An imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics."

Plutarch (46-120 AD)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 11:23 PM

Although many Easterners are still under the impression that Seattle is little more than a clump of log cabins and igloos (with the "Space Needle," left over from the Seattle World's Fair in 1962, standing in the middle of it – (view from Queen Anne Hill; looks like a storm coming in from the East), this city may be a bit more civilized than New York.

The demonstrators/protesters participating in "Occupy Seattle" in sympathy with and in support of the "Occupy Wall Street" protesters are occupying Westlake Park in downtown Seattle. They were not allowed to camp there overnight because of a pre-existing city ordinance, but Mayor Mike McGinn suggested that they camp on the large lawn beside the County-City Building (City Hall), a few blocks south of Westlake Park, and allows them to use the sanitary facilities in the building.

No bulldozers, no riot police. Mayor McGinn understands what it's all about and is in sympathy with the demonstrations.

(I'm glad I voted for him, and I'll vote for him again.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 04:46 AM

I received this via e-mail sent from NYC at 3:12 am today from a friend who is with the OWS 'group'. It's worth reading.


"Spent the last several hours cleaning up the Plaza in the rain. There wasn't a cigarette butt left on the ground by the time we finished. We even scrubbed the walls. People's belongings were left under tarps or in waterproof tubs. It's a disorganized bivouac, but don't believe anyone who tells you it wasn't sanitary.

I just hope nobody gets clobbered tomorrow morning when the police move in. Everybody in the Plaza is prepared for arrest. The only question is how it all goes down. This will not be the end of the movement, but it is probably the end of the beginning.

If you are awake at this late hour, and if you have not already sent an email to the Mayor's office in support of Occupy Wall Street, please consider doing so."


Posted here without comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 09:13 AM

Seems the clean-up has been postponed. Therefore no police, no possible confrontation. Good news for OWS.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 09:31 AM

No confrontation? Gee, I bet Bloomberg is disappointed.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 11:57 AM

Over 1,100 cities and towns now have Wall St. occupiers.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 12:15 PM

Wall Street protesters arrested in Denver
By STEVEN K. PAULSON and THOMAS PEIPERT - Associated Press | AP – 40 mins ago 10/14/11

DENVER (AP) — Dozens of police in riot gear have herded Wall Street protesters away from the Colorado state Capitol grounds, arresting about two dozen and dismantling their encampment.

Most retreated without resisting. Some chanted "Peaceful!" or "Shameful!" as police moved in early Friday.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 05:27 PM

NYPD cop runs over a protester

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: ollaimh
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 10:15 PM

the financial instruments manufactured by wall street after 1990 whic didn't exist before, and made up three quarters of the available financial instruments by the crash,were an uber ponzie scheme. no regulations and the fact the investment backs used other peoples money to do this led to most of these vestements being worthless. this financialization of the economy was great in the boom, but the bust is tough.

the total lack of the banks own money and the almost fictional nature of these new financial instruments was a fornula for disaster and shows the need for major regulation.

i hope this wall street protest is the brginning of a people's take back of the right to control the economy from these flim flam artists.

i remain amazed anyone bought these new financial instruments but they did.

if america makes major investments in infrastructure and stops subsidizing the oil industry and stops expensive wars and many overseas bases. they could concentrate on sustainable energy and under cut the reason jobs over seas are so attractive to corporations. cheap oil shipping to sell in the usa.without the subsidized oil a lot of these exported jobs would be untenable. with subsidized sustyainable energy a lot of jobs are made at home.

if this isn't well under way before the catastrphhes of the climate change happen we are in for real trouble. so go wall street protestors. it's been too long the totalitarian corporations have been able to errode the new deal and the progress under the johnson adminstration. without a response america will be a third world country in a few decades and the corporations will be happily centered elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 11:54 PM

"and the corporations will be happily centered elsewhere."

Does anyone believe that billions of people with computers cannot shut down government? Does anyone think that within three weeks/months that won't happen? The phone, i'net and mail will close. THINK about that. Then say goodnight Gracie.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 03:36 AM

Why dont they all just go home and read a good book?

A little Marx might help them to understand how Capitalism works.

As I said on another thread,everything about Capitalism is perfectly acceptable, so long as it's the inhabitants of OTHER nations who are being killed or exploited.

Chickens....home....roost???

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 04:40 AM

I think the "Occupy Wall Street" folks know what they're doing, Ake.

And it's not just Wall Street. These protests are happening all over the country. The PEOPLE are fed up!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 06:08 AM

I understand that an equivalent is on its way to the UK.

Good.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 09:38 AM

Occupy Charlotte @ 3:00 today!!!

I'll be there...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 10:27 AM

"The people are fed up!"

Well where I come from, the people dont seem to have a clue what is happening to them....and they are quite pissed because their toys are being taken away.

You want a Capitalist system, you have to accept that you are going to get fucked now and again.......now just line up like good boys and prepare yourself for a long, slow, screw.

About two decades worth I should think.
I suppose most of us will expire before then, but dont worry, the system aint fussy.....It don't care what it screws! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 11:47 AM

Saw a thing in the Washington Post. Seems the guy who would be president--Obama--has decided the OWS movement is just what HIS reelection campaign needs. Yeah, right! Like he's not part of the problem.

Are there any independents running in the US who are worth getting behind?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: bobad
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 12:45 PM

Sign spotted at Occupy Wall Street:

"Reaganomics played out;
Wealth trickles up
Burden trickles down"

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 02:40 PM

Spoken like a true, old timey communist, Ake. There are still a few around here, too, sitting in the back booth of the Blue Moon Tavern, where they've been since the mid-1950s. Whining and moaning about how rotten the system is, but still just sitting and drinking, sitting and drinking, sitting and drinking…….

"Well where I come from, the people dont seem to have a clue what is happening to them....and they are quite pissed because their toys are being taken away."

I presume you're talking about the folks involved in the "Occupy" demonstrations around the country—and on the radio this morning, I heard that it's catching on in cities all over the world. Wrong-o, Ake! They DO know what has happened to them and is still happening and they are, as the line from the movie goes, "mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!!"

They KNOW what it's all about.

That's why they are there!

This is a possitive sign. A VERY positive sign!

Don Firth

P. S.   I am for regulated capitalism, preferential (instant run-off) voting, and hard-and-fast laws absolutely forbidding lobbying (polite name for bribery) and rigid regulations on campaign financing. Lots of other stuff, too, but that will do for now. I stayed awake during my high school civics classes, I know a bit of history, and I don't get my political views from radio talk shows.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 06:58 PM

Well, the biggest difference between this weeks demonstration and last week's was that every where we marched we were treated as heroes... I mean, people waving and honking... Might have only been 300-400 of *US* but seems there were hundreds, perhaps thousands of folks showing support... I mean, workers of the Omni Hotel coming out to applaud us... Bus drivers honking... Taxi drivers honking...

We are definitely showing the Tea Party what a thru grassroots movement looks like...

On a music side, I took two paddle drums and there was a kid who was there last week with a little toy drum and I gave him one and the two of us added quite a bit to the rally... I'm going to make a couple plastic 5 gallon paint bucket drums for next week and me and the kid will really make some noise...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 07:28 PM

Thanks for the "on-the-scene" reports, Bobert!

Being wheelchair-bound, it isn't easy for me to get on a bus and head down to Westlake Park here in Seattle, but from reports I get from people who were there, these folks really do know where they're coming from and what they are there for. And the reactions of those who work in the area or who are passing through are almost always positive and encouraging (except for the occasional sorehead, of course).

Unlike New York City, even Seattle's mayor is sympathetic with the "Occupiers!"

It's real easy for people sitting in front of their computers and who have never been near the scene to sneer and pontificate. They are the ones who don't know what it's all about. But that sure doesn't stop them from venturing their opinions. For what they're worth.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 08:00 PM

I have not been staying for the "General Assembly" meetings, Don because they go into the night but I have been making my feelings known at OccupyCharlotte.com... The "General Aseembly" stuff is more for the younginz... They are the ones who stand to suffer much worse than we have... They don't need a bunch of their grandparents and parents telling them how to do stuff... They have their shit together and I love it... I'll do what I can do with noise and whatever they want me to do...

BTW, the sign I made for today's demonstration simply read "THINK 1776"... Lotta folks commented on it and my reply was "Meet the new Brit, same as the old Brit"... or "No taxation without representation"...

I'm loving this... Never in my wildest imagination would we see a global uprising against the rich and the cheaters...

This is just where we were headed when the right took out our leaders in the 60s...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 08:28 PM

After spemding a lot of years gnashing my teeth, I feel good about this.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 08:34 PM

Our turn, Don!!!

Cowabunga!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: freda underhill
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 12:33 AM

Four Charts That Explain why the Protesters Are Angry..

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: ollaimh
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 12:49 AM

and furthermore, without getting into the theory of money, not monatary theory, i am no monatarists. money is over ninety per cent held in financial forms other than specie. that is other than coins bills gold silver.

banks and other financial institutions keep most money in records with no actual folding money form. the money supply therefore is greatly affected by loans debentures bonds and other financial instruments. the more issued the more inflation of the money supplu and a rise in prices. so what i am getting at is the five fold increase in bank created securities done on wall street in the post 1999 "creative" financila boom following deregulation resulted in a significant increase in the money supply. however the inflationary effect were slow in the non financial economy. the prices of securities rose percipitously due to the increase in the money supply then as the price raises flowed into the main economy the "bubble" stableized then burst.

the investmnent bankers who created all these new bundled securities, options, derivitives and debentures, and even credit default swaps sold off their own holding before the boom hit the regular economy. in other words they created the boom , sold near the high but enough before the bust to avoid being asked too many questions, then sold off these inflated securities to the unsuspecting.

essentially,this was the largest ponzie scheme in history. and the smart guys were long gone by the time people were getting nervous. and long before the bust. most of the really big profiteers were the very same people who created these new financial instruments in the first place.deregulation handed controll over the money supply to the profiteers who knew how to manipulate the m oney supply. moreover these new securities were created with no deposit hedge that used to be put into the investments by backs before deregulation. in other words the banks stopped putting any of their own money into these securities they were selling. an example is credit default swaps, which used to be a kind of insurance when offered by investment banks who financed them themselves, but the ones out there now have to issuer deposit. they depend entirely on market psychology for their value and are pure specualtion. rather than the insurance they used to be. they were used to spread ones risk over several sectors of the securities market by swapiing with other investement banks . now they are purely speculative instruments.

the biggest ponzie scheme in history , with the tax payer stuck with the bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 04:01 AM

Don...that is the problem, "regulated Capitalism" no longer provides the growth required to keep the economy solvent.

That is why we have witnessed the series of "booms" in the last couple of decades, these booms were not only the work of corrupt bankers and financiers, but actively encouraged by capitalist governments, as a survival mechanism.

What i am saying is that without systemic change, the whole protest movement is counter productive.
It reinforces the idea, that this system can be repaired by stopping the financial sector doing what they are supposed to do under Capitalism.

If economic growth falls, your standard of living and public servces fall with it, how many of your young protesters realise that?......now is the time to go for real change....and I mean the way people think.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 06:14 AM

Read what I said again, Ake.

Regulated Capitalism.

That means NOT putting members of the particular business or industry on the agency that is supposed to be regulating it. Putting bankers and Wall Street brokers on the Securities and Exchange Commission and putting executives from pharmaceutical companies on the Food and Drug Administration, for example. THAT was Ronald Reagan's contribution to the dismantling of the regulatory agencies that FDR put in place in the 1930s that were a major factor in ending the Great Depression.

I know that as an avowed communist, anything having to do with capitalism is an anathema to you, but the fact is that capitalism works well IF it is properly regulated. I see no historical evidence that communism ever worked well, except on a very small scale.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 07:39 AM

The following is the introduction to a short story I wrote about five years ago. I post it to point out that this stuff ain't news to everyone--with no offense meant to anyone.

"We live on a planet that cries for our help, yet we continue to ignore those cries. We have despoiled our home and proven ourselves to be seriously remiss as respectable and responsible stewards. There is now a concerted effort by various governments, multi-nationals and special-interest groups to control the production and distribution of all resources. Eventually that will lead to a similar fate for people. We should be working hard to prevent this from happening, for ultimately Earth belongs not to a self-appointed elite, but rather to all God's creatures, great and small."

############################################

We have known since the earliest days of electronic banking that our system had troubles. Hell, we've known since 1929 that our system has troubles. The initial Wall Street Crash in '29 told us all we need to know. Absolutely nothing changed on the Wednesday after Black Tuesday--but people thought it had changed, and so it did.

As an eight-year old kid I knew 'something' was screwed up because jujubes went from four for a penny to three for a penny. I defy anyone to tell me that the value of the lowly jujube changed so drastically from one day to the next. I saw the same thing happen in a town I lived in where house prices doubled in a few months. I've seen the same thing between 1959 and the present with bread prices. When I was a young teenager, my grandmother sent me blocks out of my way (she thought the exercise was good for me) to buy what was then called 'day-old-bread'. Fresh, it was $.17 a loaf. Day-old was two loaves for that price. Today, the same loaf of bread sells for about $3.00 when it's on 'sale'. And jujubes go for about $.04 each.

A few years back the subject of conspiracy theories came up again on Mudcat. At the time a few of us were ridiculed because we suggested one might find the roots of the problem in what has come to be called 'the new world order'. Despite pointing out that the term has been in use since the late 1800s, we were told to put on our tinfoil hats because it was just blather, we should wait for the little green men, etc. Anyone want to borrow my hat?

In fact, Sir Isaac Newton who was the person who moved much of the world to what was called the gold standard in the early 1700s. It was in 1819 that Britain formally adopted it and it was in 1971 that the standard was finally formally dropped by the USA simply because there wasn't enough gold in "Fort Knox" to support the currency that was floating around.

A google of

D.L. Cuddy: Chronological History of the New World Order

contains a research of the term New World Order, and it is worth reading, imo. It is an unfortunate document in that some people are quoted just enough out of context or with insufficient information to easily check their credibility--but the basic information is there. For example,

'1954 -- Senator William Jenner said:

"Today the path to total dictatorship in the United States can be laid by strictly legal means, unseen and unheard by the Congress, the President, or the people... outwardly we have a Constitutional government. We have operating within our government and political system, another body representing another form of government, a bureaucratic elite which believes our Constitution is outmoded and is sure that it is the winning side.... All the strange developments in the foreign policy agreements may be traced to this group who are going to make us over to suit their pleasure.... This political action group has its own local political support organizations, its own pressure groups, its own vested interests, its foothold within our government, and its own propaganda apparatus."'

What isn't mentioned is that he was a follower of Senator Joe McCarthy and he was talking about communism. However, a rose by another name . . .

The following kinda sums it up.

'In 1913, prior to the passage of the Federal Reserve Act President Wilson's The New Freedom was published, in which he revealed:

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the U. S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."'

I hesitate to call the above a conspiracy theorist. That's the usual 'ridicule' thrown at people who are coming to realize that maybe there actually IS such a thing and that while we think in terms of shorter time spans (mortgage of twenty years, TV shows of 24 minutes called a half hour, etc) there is nothing odd historically of thinking in terms of a few hundred years. The Chinese have been doing it for centuries (as it were).

I have thrice on Mudcat (I think) drawn attention to the article by Cuddy mostly because it documents the use of terms closely related to NWO. In fact, four or five American presidents have publicly acknowledged the term although each within different contexts. That said, they have used the term in such a way that maybe it's time folks had a good look at it.

Forget if you wish the use of names like Illuminati, Bilderbergers, Trilateral Commission, etc. We don't need them to demonstrate that "Something is happening here and ya don't know what it is, do you, Mr Jones."

It's lots simpler for this old boy: fuckin' jujubes cost sixteen times what they did when I was a kid dammit, and that's a rip-off of gigantic proportions, because as happened with the lowly jujube so too happens with bread, houses and 401's.

Forty-six percent of the people elected to congress are millionaires. To quote from a song by the Dixie Chicks,

'There's Your Trouble, There's Your Trouble
You Keep Seeing Double With The Wrong One
You Can't See I Love You, You Can't See She Doesn't
But You Just Keep Holding On
There's Your Trouble'


Felt good to get that off my chest. Have a nice day, all.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 09:36 AM

Bruce, may I put that on the 'Occupy Wall St' Facebook page? Mine also, and several other 'Occupy' pages? (Obviously, giving your name as Author)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: bobad
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 11:08 AM

Some more notable signs from the Occupy Protests:

`The American dream is a pyramid scheme.`

`Èat the rich, they taste like chicken.`

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 08:52 PM

This is interesting. The woman at THIS BLOG writes about the demonstrations in Spain this past summer. The protestors called themselves the Indignados. Young liberals for the most part. The people leading the movement convinced them that they could show "the establishment" disdain by not voting in the upcoming elections, and the young people complied. The right-wing party made huge gains. The young liberals were tricked by what turned out to be right-wing leadership.

And now some of the people who ran that operation are in New York City helping with the OWS protests.

One of the things the organizers in Spain did was to march people around in useless demonstrations, venting steam and energy with pointless activity. The same thing's being done in the OWS protests. And then there's all the talk about "consensus." It'll never be reached, and that's the point of forcing the consensus model on movements like this--to make sure the group never comes together as a whole.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 01:04 AM

Hi, Songwronger.

You're right. I also heard from another trusted friend that in Texas the Democrats are getting THEIR faces in it and helping the OWS folks along. Seems it's lots like incest: keep it in the family.

Thing is, they both need the 60 percent living below the poverty line--half of whom are voters, and until such time as they both put up or shut up, they need us more than we need them. That's the trump card, and if no one gives it away, they got NO choice BUT to deal. Thing is, promises don't cut it this time. SUTMOSTFU. (That's for Wall Street and the politicians, not you.)

An important thing to remember about hardball: if yer forced into the game, pitch!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 01:26 AM

OOPS. I meant to write 60 million, not 60%. Old age, exuberance and beer. Please pardon me.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 11:32 AM

Marx said that Capitalism would inevitably fail and that the proletariat would eventually communicate, coordinate, organize and refuse to put up gross inequality and exploitation any more.

Here we have a situation where the proletariat are doing just that.

The target is capital and its relationship with the ruling classes.


The target is Neo-liberal politics


and Ake says they should go and read a book.


Apart from being laughably ignorant, this is about as reactionary as you can be without trying to shut them up.


This is the same Ake who moans about freedom of speech and purports t be a critic of neo-liberalism.


I'd gladly give yhim a job talking into a balloon to stop it sinking!!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 11:39 AM

I `ad one of them protesters in my cab last night. `e`ad `is guitar and Woody Guthrie song book and `e was going up to join a group in the City called "Folk Against Freemarkets"
I said, " `oo you got it in for, then?"
`e said, "All of `em, Jim. Barclays, M&$, BP, Tesco, Vodaphone, Nat.West. That lot for starters."
I said, You gotta credit card?"
`e said, "Yeah, but......"
I said, "That`s a nice pair of jeans you got on."
`e said, "Oh, I know that but......."
I said, "You drive a car?"
`e said, "Oh yeah but they all do that."
I said, "You gotta reward card and a mobile phone?."
`e said, "Oh, I know that but....."
I said, "Seems to me you need them more than they need you!!"

Whaddam I Like??

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 01:33 PM

There is nothing in these protests that criticizes enterprise or market economics.

There is no such thing as a completely free market, or you would see legal drugs and child porn etc.

So we accept that a market can't be totally free.

But thats just a distraction anyway.

Labour is not an infinite resource and it would seem that in this market, the monetary value of labour has been set too low, with the result that the labour force is becomng coordinated.

This is about renegotiating the terms between those who own the means of production and the people upon whom they rely for the success of their industries.

The recent crisis and the way the governments of the world and the IMF have gone about dealing with it has highlighted the obscene inequalities that exist in the world and the corruption and nepotism that exist between capitalists and government.


It has also highlighted the effectiveness of social media as a political tool.


I believe Marxs predictions are beginning to come true. Not in any cliched sense, nor in the way that the worlds "communist" dictators have tried to contrive, but in the inevitable way that simply must occur when so few so greedily insist on possessing so much.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 01:51 PM

As for OWS being "useless"???

What a crock of weasel shit...

Reality is that there 2 options for oppressed people: accept it or fight it... No middle ground... No third option...

OWS is fighting it... It's that simple...

And guess what??? As we demonstrate we are seeing hotel workers, restaurant workers, laborers, and people everywhere waving and cheering in support... OWS is laying out some very basic demands for justice and equality...

My generation got the ball down the field fairly well with the civil rights movement (also not "useless") and this generation has picked up the ball and going to get it a little further down the field... It is a struggle but it's time for the fight... The working class has not seen any increase in their wages (after inflation) for over 30 years and there has been a massive redistribution of wealth to the upper 5% (most to the upper 1%)... So it's time for some adjustments...

Time to change the conversation... Time to get our message out... It's time... It's time...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 06:07 PM

People who do complain about OWS--like the taxi guy who's neither all that funny nor all that informed--can complain all they want. It ain't about them, it's about the 99%. We've been fucked over for years, and it's now time to return the favour.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 07:04 PM

Back when I was in college, I attended a lot of football rallies. Much enthusiasm, but I never recall one affecting the game's outcome.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 07:22 PM

Lousy analogy, dick...

My generation took to the streets to get the Civil Rights Act as law...

The Civil Rights Act ain't a stupid football game...

Your answer is disrespectful to everyone who fought for civil rights...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 08:24 PM

One solid "through-line" that some politicians get, and that they all need to get if they want to stay in politics is that, even though they—and Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and that collection of weasels—denigrate the OWS protesters and the hundreds of mirror groups all over the country, such as "Occupy Seattle," as misguided or hooligans or worse, is that they are all—

Voters.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 08:47 PM

Bobert- It may be a lousy analogy, but it's yours.

"My generation got the ball down the field fairly well with the civil rights movement (also not "useless") and this generation has picked up the ball and going to get it a little further down the field... "

The success of the Civil Rights Movement was a political accomplishment of Lyndon Johnson.

The anger and enthusiasm of the movement can produce some really meaningful changes if it's directed towards producing some political muscle.