BS: Wall Street Protesters...

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: pdq
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 05:33 PM

Little Hawk mentions David Icke...

"...set out a moral and political worldview that combined New-Age spiritualism with a passionate denunciation of totalitarian trends in the modern world. At the heart of his theories lies the idea that the world is becoming a global fascist state, that a secret group of reptilian humanoids called the Babylonian Brotherhood controls humanity, and that many prominent figures are reptilian, including George W. Bush, Queen Elizabeth II, Kris Kristofferson, and Boxcar Willie."

Listeneng to David Icke will give you a headache.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 05:55 PM

So he's strange. He's also right about the financial 'crisis', one in a continuing line of crises brought on by crooked politicians, crooked bankers and a very crooked Wall Street.

Attack what he said about finance, or don't. Character assassination because he said what he thinks on another front has NO bearing on what he has said in this instance.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 05:57 PM

That, pdq, is one thing that we agree upon... I can a take a little of David but then he, like Lyndon LaRouche, goes into a conspiracy world that I find a tad hard to believe...

Bring back Glass-Staegall and all of this goes away, anyway...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 06:07 PM

I think the less we associate OWS with David Icke the better!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 07:46 PM

I'm not suggesting you associate OWS with David Icke. I'm suggesting that you might find interest in listening to his talk about the financial crisis. It makes a lot of sense. It's what he's talking about in that video that connects to the OWS movement, because it is the essence of what the movement is protesting against. To let your personal problems with David Icke (because of some other thing he said at some time) affect your comprehension of what he's explaining in that video will not be helpful at all.

Most people are not right about everything. Most of them are right about some things, and they're mistaken about others. I think David Icke is quite correct in most of what he says in that video regarding the financial crisis, and I don't feel he has to be right about EVERYTHING else he's ever said in his whole life before I give that video my serious attention. I don't expect David Icke or anyone else in this world to have the right answer to EVERYTHING...and that leaves me free to consider this particular video on its own merits...rather than just making a kneejerk decision to accept it or reject it in its entirety merely because it's emanating from.....David Icke.

I'm willing to listen to anyone. Pay attention closely. See if it makes any sense to me. If it does make sense, I don't particularly care who said it. It's what they said that counts. What David Icke is saying in that video makes sense to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:12 PM

It only makes sense to a point, LH... Some of the OWS chapters have gone on record of demanding the restoration of Glass-Steagall... Repealing it, which BTW was something that the Repubs pushed and had Slick Willie on their meatgrinder over a blow job over, opened up this "prefect storm"... The repeal was the ultimate Reaganomics victory... It is also what brought about the near collapse of the economy on September of 2008...

Icke goes way too far here... He has the same story that my dad use to tell about these "5 Jews who run the entire world" conspiracy theory... That's where I get off, thank you... This isn't about "5 Jews"... It's about Reganomics... It's about a corrupt government... It's about the insanity of deregulation... Deregulated capitalism = disaster...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:14 PM

Give him his due. David Icke gives the clearest and most succinct explanation of the banking system, and economics in general, that I've ever heard.

This "vapor money" and the ability to manipulate it, as he describes, is one of the reasons that, in times past, there was such a strong campaign—and a successful one, obviously—to abandon the gold standard, where having a dollar bill in your hand meant that there was a dollar's worth of gold on deposit, and you could take that dollar to a bank and get the equivalent in gold. Since there is a limited supply of gold, that meant that the supply of money was limited also. Which meant that you couldn't "create money" the way the banking system does now, because for every dollar there had to be an equivalent amount of gold somewhere and you could demand actual possession of it.

Remember silver certificates? Same deal there. Every silver certificate (fives, tens, twenties, etc) had "Redeemable on demand" printed on it. They were taken out of circulation in 1965.

Were you aware, when Reagan appointed him Fed Chairman, that Alan Greenspan was a disciple of Ayn Rand? I was. And figured, "This is ominous!" Deregulation! Complete deregulation!

But—

As far as the entire video is concerned, David Icke leads us through the door into his own private fantasy. A former English sports announcer (presenter) turned writer, public speaker, and general pot-stirrer, he has written a book entitled The Biggest Secret, which is considered by many to be "the conspiracy theorists' Rosetta Stone." Some of the things he comes up with are in the realm of really bad science fiction.

But his explanation of the credit system in the U. S. is really quite good. It's where he tries to take it…….

Of course there will be those who will get on my case for not buying Icke's whole package, but—so be it.

####

Detractors of OWS can quote polls and echo Fox News 'til hell freezes over, but the comments by Josh Brown that I quote above are right on the mark. And OWS and its mirror demonstrations (some 900 cities across the country AND in cities overseas) are starting to have a salutary effect.

Among other things, it has the Right Wing peeing its pants in sheer fright.

Seattle City Councilman Nick Licata was on the radio this morning, being interviewed by KUOW's Steve Scher. Among other things, he said that the Mayor McGinn and the City Council know where OWS and our local edition, Occupy Seattle demonstrating at Westlake Park, are coming from. They have gone to Westlake Park and actually TALKED with the people there, asked questions, and listened to what they said.

One of the results is that the City Council is now examining the banks and financial agencies that the city has been using in the management of the city's funds and checking on their practices and procedures.

"And," said Licata, "we were not entirely happy with what we find. We will be making some changes!"

He also said that he knew that Los Angeles and a number of other cities were doing the same thing.

So, said banks and other financial institutions had better clean up their act or they will be losing some BIG clients!

Now, I'd say that's fairly effective, wouldn't you?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:23 PM

Looks as if we each came to the same conclusion, Don...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:30 PM

Well said, Don. I have no need for you to buy Icke's whole package. I don't buy his whole package. But I am delighted to hear someone explain the banker's Ponzi scheme of present day money creation that clearly.

Imagine what any of us could do if we could create money that way, with the mere tap of a computer keyboard. Why...we (and our colleagues) could end up running the world...and get fabulously rich.

And if it created a financial crisis, we could ask for a bailout. ;-) And then do it again. And again. And again.

Money is power. He who creates the money has the power. The banks have created virtually all the money that is now listed on their balance sheets, and the governments are in hock to them up to their eyeballs...and the public is paying the bill.

Banks must be stringently regulated to stop this from continuing to happen. And it would be a very good idea to put printed money back on a gold or silver standard, every dollar redeemable in a fixed amount of gold or silver upon demand. It used to be that way. It was discontinued so the bankers could run their Ponzi schemes.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:42 PM

BINGO, LH...

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 09:01 PM

I've posted this a number of times before, but I think it might bear repeating.

One of the kinds of telephone solicitation calls that I get fairly often (makes me smirk) is someone from a financial institution telling me that "We can assist you in making your mortgage payments!"

"Well, thank you," say I, "but our mortgage was paid off about thirty years ago. We own our home outright."

I can hear the creak of his jaw dropping. Then he takes another breath and says, "Well, we are also equipped to assist you in paying off your credit card debt."

"Thanks again," I say, "but my wife and I make it a point to pay off our credit card balance every month. We don't have any credit card debt."

All of this is true, by the way. He never gets as far as car payments, but there, too, our 1999 Toyota Corona is all paid for—and it only has about 30,000 miles on it, and due to the fine work of the mechanic at a gas station and garage three blocks away, it's well maintained and runs just fine, thank you.

Here's a word that can give bankers cold chills:

Barter.

(Worked just fine for hundreds if not thousands of years.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 09:06 PM

I'm in the same position, Don, and these folks just don't get it??? What, you don't want out money??? What the heck is wrong with you, man???

LOL...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 11:14 PM

Yeah, I've had similar conversations with them. I hear they call people like us "deadbeats" in the credit card industry. They consider our lack of debt to be downright unpatriotic.

Barter is a wonderful idea, Don, one that people should probably make considerably more use of. People in a community could circumvent the money system itself for many things by issuing their own "credits" through a local organization that traded goods and labour of all sorts through exchanging x amount of credits and recording it at the local credit exchange. (and some communities have done so). The government doesn't care for the idea, because they can't figure out how to tax it. Banks don't care for it either.

"What if they issued a currency and nobody showed interest?" (Same as "What if they gave a war and nobody came?") A population can only be enslaved by money if they allow themselves to be by first surrendering to it...and using it for all their transactions.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 11:47 PM

The good thing to come out of OWS so far is that people are crediting the Democrat/Republican mindset less and less. Clinton didn't repeal Glass-Steagall because of the Republicans and a blowjob... Obama didn't offer to cut Social Security because of the Republicans and the Tea Party... Clinton and Obama are just as establishment (bank) as Reagan and Bush. Clinton signed NAFTA, gutting the U.S. unions. The Republicans didn't make him do it. Those days of false blame-casting are over. Clinton/Bush/Obama are all on the same team, just handing off the ball to one another, playing offense and defense.

OWS is showing, though, a new and more insidious mindset. The new "us vs them" standoff isn't between 50% on one side and 50% on the other anymore, it's now 99% vs 1%.

So, who are the 1%? In the French Revolution it was "the monarchy," and look at how many lost their heads there. After the monarchy was gone you were executed if you were just against "the revolution." And look at Pol Pot and his war against intellectuals. After the professors were dead he ending up killing, what...40% of his country because they were too intellectual?

So who is this 1% that the OWS 99% are going to "get?" And after they're gotten, who's in the next 1%? Because you'll never shake this mania once it gets hold of you. Before long, if you own a house, you'll be in the 1%. Off with your head. Own a car? Off with your head.

The saddest thing in the OWS movement is the Marxist talk about redistribution of wealth. There is no wealth in America. Not significant wealth. The wealthy have moved their money overseas. Any redistribution will be of middle-class money. OWS appears to be just the latest assault on the middle class.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 12:16 AM

Like I said, Songwronger. You need to get out and mingle, not sit at home and read Right-Wing blogs and listen to Fox News. It keeps you clueless.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 12:34 AM

"There is no wealth in America. Not significant wealth. The wealthy have moved their money overseas."

You're right about that, songwronger. They've put it all in Swiss banks and in the Cayman Islands. And this comes partly from their not paying their fair share of taxes--and from receiving multimillion dollar bonuses despite having totally screwed up. But most of the money they're shipping out of the country is bail-out money that was supposed to be used to create jobs.

THIS, as I have pointed out several times on this thread, is ONE of the things the OWS folks are angry about.

Not really that difficult to grasp.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 12:51 AM

Your old system left-right system is breaking down. Perceptive people realize that Rush Limbaugh and NPR tell the same lie about the "one trillion dollar stimulus." They both quote the same figure, and that figure is a lie. Obama's stimulus gave closer to 15 trillion to the banks. Yet the "left" and "right" news outlets say it was one trillion. An agreed-upon lie. Why would they do that? Because their job is to deceive you.

Maybe you still push the left-right thing because the new reality is too horrible to comtemplate. The new 99%/1%. The 1% WANTS you to hate them because there's nothing you can do to touch them. And when people realize they can't touch Soros and Buffett, they'll want a percentage of SOMETHING, and that's when the middle class will suffer.

You say you own your house. I want it. Get the fuck out of my house.

That's how redistribution works. That's how the 1% wants us to treat one another. The old left-right crap worked for a long time and will still work for a while, but now we're getting into anarchy and mob rule. Maybe you're holding onto the old left-right thing because you realize how dangerous the new paradigm is to you, as a property-owner. Spout me some more Marxism from the comfort of your home.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 02:00 AM

Yeah, sure the old Right/Left system is breaking down. I've been saying that for years. Its primary purpose in recent elections has been to keep the public distracted by fighting with each other over the old partisan Right/Left symbology while all the parties tacitly serve the business and banking elite once elected. The Right/Left thing is just camouflage as far as I'm concerned. They trot out Bush on one side, Obama on the other, convince you that Obama is the moral antithesis to Bush...so people rush out to vote for "change"...but it's just cosmetic change. Obama gets elected and "Surprise!"...he ends up pursuing quite similar overall policies to what Bush was pursuing, and he gets away with it easier than Bush could have...because he's not Bush. The supposed "change" he inspired the hopes of the electorate with was a good sales job, but it has not happened. I don't believe it was ever intended to happen. He put some of the key architects of the banks' ponzi scheme into high positions of power in his administration. That tells me who he's really working for...the same basic interests Bush II and Clinton and Bush I and Reagan all worked for. The party divide is there to fool people into thinking they can change what's happening by voting in "the other party"...and it works beautifully! People are fooled. Again and again. What a shameful situation it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:50 AM

I suspect many Democrats here see this movement as merely a stick to beat conservatives with......I do not think there are many who appreciate what the required systemic change will mean in practice.

If it is not handled with more care, it could end in severe loss of life.

I notice that you are still saying that the regulation of the banking system can repair the damage done......this is "whistling in the dark"....Deregulation is a desperate measure, taken by governments of "left" and "right", to promote growth in the economy through the marketing of financial "products".

It is a desperate measure taken when a Capitalist society has nothing left to exploit.....and so begins, like a rat in a cage, to devour itself.

Without economic growth, Capitalism is doomed and I see no sign of producing that growth in the near or distant future.

Whatever the future holds, it will be neither easy, nor "liberal"

BITE THE BULLET!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:18 AM

"So, who are the 1%? In the French Revolution it was "the monarchy," and look at how many lost their heads there."

About 13,000.

However, that is nowhere near the number who have died as a result of policies that killed millions around the world through starvation, war and other forms of genocide. I have great difficulty feeling sorrow for people who have created 60,000,000 victims who hang onto life with no hope of a tomorrow.

Mob rule? I fail to see how people sleeping in parks is mob rule. They rule nothing, not even their own lives. The so-called 1% deserve what the get, even if it is their bloody heads handed to them.

The houses you mention being stolen: the 1% have already stolen those houses. Three million houses, and that's a low figure. I have never wept for Custer, Stalin or Pol Pot, and I will never weep for the scum who played, play and continue to play games with people's lives. Save your sorrow for those who need it but maybe at last will no longer want it.

The breakdown in social order was and is not caused by people sleeping in parks. It is caused by those who left them no place else to sleep. The breakdown in social order is not caused by people stealing bread to eat. It is caused by those who have priced bread beyond ordinary means.

I feel no empathy or sympathy for the Evita Perons of this world. Nor for the Eichmanns and Pinochets who do their biddings. Nor for the Wall Street crowd so inconvenienced by the mob in the park. Fu#k 'em. They felt no remorse when hundreds of millions died as a result of the policies and practices that allowed them to steal their money. I feel no sorrow or remorse for them now.

"Although the pharmaceutical industry claims to be a high-risk business, year after year drug companies enjoy higher profits than any other industry. In 2002, for example, the top 10 drug companies in the United States had a median profit margin of 17%, compared with only 3.1% for all the other industries on the Fortune 500 list.1 Indeed, subtracting losses from gains, those 10 companies made more in profits that year than the other 490 companies put together. Pfizer, the world's number-one drug company, had a profit margin of 26% of sales. In 2003, for the first time in over 2 decades, the pharmaceutical industry fell slightly from its number-one spot to third, but this was explained by special circumstances, including Pfizer's purchase of another drug giant, Pharmacia, which cut into its profits for the year. The industry's profits were still an extraordinary 14% of sales, well above the median of 4.6% for other industries.2 "

Don't cry for me Argentina? Unlikely. I'll probably dance in the streets.

No more!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:46 AM

Before long, if you own a house, you'll be in the 1%.

I see the Horatio Alger myth is alive & well. Not to mention false class consciousness.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:52 AM

Interesting view Here

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:55 AM

Don't know where you get your supposed "facts", songwronger, but they aren't facts but mythology... Glass-Steagall was on the Reaganomic practitioners hit list going way back... The Republican Congress repealed it knowing full well that with all the dirty tricks they had played on Clinton that he was not going to repeal it... That's purdy much why he went along with Welfare Reform...

As for Obama giving a $15T stimulus to the banks??? Hog wash... He did no such thing... Reality is that he came into office with a collapsing economy and the strongest opposition party since Abraham Lincoln and he has done what he could... Which ain't all that much... The actual stimulus was $300B in spending and $400 in tax cuts...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 09:15 AM

Oh, and just for the record, Obama was not on the architectural firm that designed Reaganomics... He was the poor guy who had and has to deal with the corrupt bastards who did and who are hell bent on keeping Reaganomics as our economic model... And he is being out PR'd because these bastards also own 100% of BIG MEDIA...

And that's why we have folks out there spreading "Obama gave $15T" propaganda...

Garbage in = garbage out...

And as for the OWS movement being controlled by the right wing??? Koch head mythology plucked from thin air...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 09:25 AM

Songwronger,

You need to listen to them - its no secret.

the OWS keeps repeating itself again and again.

The 1% who have all the wealth and power.


That is called feudalism - in this case corporate feudalism.


Democracy has always been about taking power out of the hands of the 1% and sharing it with the other 99%.


This is the same thing.


The 1% has somehow managed to get all the power back and the 99% are saying - hold on time to do a democracy reset.


It isn't about us and them, that is just taking language from other unrelated issues (nationalism, race, gender etc) and misapplying it.


This is 100% about simple straight forward democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 09:28 AM

Anyone who thinks that OWS is being controlled by the right wing ain't going to listen to any logic, Lox...

I mean, the guy is a tin-foiler...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 09:29 AM

PS - noone is talking about rediistribuitiing weath.

This is fiction.

They are talking about a fair wage - so you don't have to work 3 jobs and never see your kids just so you can pay off the medical bills.

They are talking about preventing corporate crime from being committed.



Don, LH and Bobert,


If you want to learn something really useful about the Banks, check out Nomi Prins. Take your tiime doing it and you won't regret it.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: pdq
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 10:40 AM

"...The saddest thing in the OWS movement is the Marxist talk about redistribution of wealth. There is no wealth in America. Not significant wealth. The wealthy have moved their money overseas. Any redistribution will be of middle-class money." ~ Songwronger

There is a lot of truth in that statement.

The cause of he current Depression was the huge drop in residential house values.

Why real estate market was pushed to absurd highs is really the question, not the fact that it eventually collapsed.

Residential property owners, most of whom are here in the U. S., lost about 15 billion dollars in value. They also lost their ticket to the Promised Land. The famous Middle Class, if not dead, is on life support.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 10:45 AM

"Why real estate market was pushed to absurd highs is really the question, not the fact that it eventually collapsed."

It's certainly one of the questions, pdq. There's only so many millions a fifty-thousand dollar house can be sold for. Of course if it's repossessed lotsa times, the money will roll in until it doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: pdq
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 10:50 AM

"...Residential property owners...lost about 15 billion dollars..." ~ me

Of course, that should be 15 trillion dollars. The figure is so staggering that my brain seems to have rejected it as unreasonable.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 11:07 AM

Bobert is in solidarity with the American Nazi Party:

ANP Report for October 16, 2011

Racial Comrades: I am going to address the issue of this "Occupy Wall Street" fervor that has been sweeping the land like a breath of cleansing air!

THE NATIVES ARE GETTING RESTLESS, AND ZOG FEARS IT MIGHT HAVE A POPULAR UPRISING ON ITS HANDS - finally!

This issue is TAYLOR MADE for National Socialists, as well as WN who are serious about DOING SOMETHING - MORE - than shouting "racial slurs" and acting like "poster boys of hate" loons.

After all - JUST WHO - are the WALL STREET BANKERS? The vast majority are JEWS - and the others are SPIRITUAL JEW materialists, who would sell their own mother's gold teeth for a PROFIT. And MORE and MORE people are AWARE of this truth, are not only NOT afraid to TALK ABOUT IT - they're shouting it on WALL STREET!

I urgently URGE all of you to TAKE PART and JOIN IN when these protests hit your neck of the woods. Produce some flyers EXPLAINING the "JEW BANKER" influence - DON'T wear anything marking you as an "evil racist" - and GET OUT THERE and SPREAD the WORD! Put as a "contact point" on your literature, our www.ANP14.com address - it won't immediately "scare off" some of these scaredy-cats for even looking at our FACTS - for FACTS they ARE!

If you are unable to produce your own leaflets - check out the "support" section of our website - there are a LOT of good flyers there to utilize.

This issue reminds me a LOT of the "GASOLINE SHORTAGE" of the 1970's - where National Socialists found a HUGE receptive audience, for our viewpoints - per the JEWISH CONTROL of OUR GOVERNMENT and its insane support for Zionist Israel, and the Arab Oil Boycott that hit OUR people so hard.

As I have so often in the past spoke on - the White Working Class - is going PAST, the BOILING POINT, and is quickly reaching ULTIMATE EXPLOSION! THEY want ANSWERS! THEY want RESULTS! All of which this evil corrupt, decadent JUDEO-CAPITALIST SYSTEM is incapable of giving them. WHY? Because its BOUGHT and SOLD to the CORPORATE ELITISTS who are fast turning America into a "South American" style - THIRD WORLD WAGE-SLAVE STATE - ( complete with MILLIONS of BROWN illegal aliens willing to ACCEPT YOUR JOB for LOW WAGES and NO BENEFITS ) where, currently 3% of the population CONTROL 85% of the nation's WEALTH! And the "GREAT DIVIDE" is GROWING each and every year that passes.

WE - the WHITE WORKING CLASS - have been LIED TO and totally DECIEVED - just the other day, the system APPROVED THREE MORE so-called "Free-Trade" deals. ALL of which mean that MORE JOBS are going to be SENT OVERSEAS - YOUR JOBS! Don't you CARE? Enough to DO SOMETHING?

NOW is the TIME! GET INVOLVED! IT'S YOUR FUTURE THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

YOU can DO - ONE of TWO THINGS - SUBMIT to the uncaring GREED of these CORORATE, WALL STREET THUGS and their SOCK-PUPPETS in GOVERNMENT. OR, - YOU can RESIST! I CHOOSE RESISTANCE for MY FAMILY and MYSELF!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 11:24 AM

It always amazes me what a frontal lobotomy and a quart of hard liquor can inspire people to write.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 01:06 PM

Sawz hasn't had & doesn't need a frontal lobotomy. He comes by his stupidity naturally. As for the rotgut, I dumnno.

There is a lot of truth in that statement.

But there's a lot more bullshit, PeeDee. Marxist? Please.

The "cause" of the "depression" was de-regulation of financial institutions, repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act, massive tax cuts and Reaganomics. Lets give credit where credit is due, eh?

They also lost their ticket to the Promised Land.

Ah, but they never HAD a ticket to the promised land, only the Horatio Alger delusion..

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 01:35 PM

GF has nothing but personal attacks to offer.

They illustrate his personality and his thought processes perfectly.

Do not question the facts. You are ill equipped for that. Instead attack the person in an attempt to bring the facts into question. Ritual defamation is easier than disproving facts.

---

"with all the dirty tricks they had played on Clinton that he was not going to repeal it" Clinton could have vetoed it. Why didn't he?

"Today, Congress voted to update the rules that have governed financial services since the Great Depression and replace them with a system for the 21st century,"then-Treasury Secretary Lawrence H. Summers said at the time. "This historic legislation will better enable American companies to compete in the new economy."

Lawrence Henry Summers is an American economist. He served as the 71st United States Secretary of the Treasury from 1999 to 2001 under President Bill Clinton. He was Director of the White House United States National Economic Council for President Barack Obama until November 2010. Summers is the Charles W. Eliot University Professor at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government. He is the 1993 recipient of the John Bates Clark Medal for his work in several fields of economics.

Summers also served as the 27th President of Harvard University from 2001 to 2006. Summers resigned as Harvard's president in the wake of a no-confidence vote by Harvard faculty that resulted in large part from Summers's conflict with Cornel West, financial conflict of interest questions regarding his relationship with Andrei Shleifer, and a 2005 speech in which he suggested that the under-representation of women in science and engineering could be due to a "different availability of aptitude at the high end," and less to patterns of discrimination and socialization.

Summers has also been criticized for the economic policies he advocated as Treasury Secretary and in later writings. In 2009, he was tapped by President Obama to be the director of the White House National Economic Council.


Them Harvard guys know their shit alright.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 01:59 PM

I meant the remarks penned by the Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:07 PM

Sawzaw - I don't doubt that the American Nazi Party or any other neo-Nazi types would be pleased by massive social unrest and anger at bankers, and I don't doubt that they would hope to take advantage of it in some way....

But so what? That is no reflection on the OWS movement itself. You don't become "evil" yourself just because someone else reacts favorably to a situation which might prove politically advantageous to them in some way if they can turn it to their advantage.

What is your point? That Nazis are out to get Jews and are on a racial superiority trip? I think we already knew that.

You seem to be just as upset with the bankers as the protestors are. What would you like to do about it?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: gnu
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:15 PM

Felonious Munk's commentary on the "crisis"

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:21 PM

Awright! LOL! I have a smile on my face for the first time today. Feels good.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:23 PM

Lox, thanks for the reference to Nomi Prins. I Googled the name, quickly scanned a couple of web sites (brief note on Wikipedia, then her own site, and a quick glance at a couple of others).

As Arnie said in that movie, "I'll be back!!"

It looks like this lady knows, not only where all the bodies are buried, but who dunnit! And her book titles say "MUST READ!!"

Again, thanks for the referral! Bobert! LH! Check her out!

####

Judging from the tone of the last few posts by Songwronger, pdq, and Sawzaw, the OWS movement must be getting to them a bit. Along with the barrage of Right Wing propaganda, I detect a distinct note that verges on frenzy!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:26 PM

Do not question the facts. You are ill equipped for that.

That's both the funniest & most inane statement you've come up with in a long time, Sawz, & believe me, it has some tough competition.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:29 PM

It just occurred to me, Sawzaw, that American Nazis are opposed to cannibalism, drunk driving, and child rape.

So am I.

And they like fresh corn on the cob.

So do I!

Does this put me in solidarity with American Nazis? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:39 PM

They came FIRST for the Communists.....but "liberals" hate Communists!!.......Go figure! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:25 PM

Interesting,

In my last post I pointed out that"redistribution of wealth" is not on the OWS agenda.


In the very next post, pdq walks right on by and starts explaining what the problem with redistributing the wealth is ...


... Talk about straw men ... the right wing is building straw godzillas ...

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:29 PM

Don, You won't regret it - she knows not only whodunnit and where the bodies are buried, but how it was done and the motive.

In addition, there is no better or more experienced or more qualified economist or finacier on the planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:50 PM

Ditto that. The gal's got brains and guts.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 06:11 PM

Brains are superfluous and actually detrimental in present the present day U.S. of A.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 06:58 PM

That depends on what you're planning to do with them. It can endanger your chances of being elected, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:14 PM

Hey, ya'll... Just got home from another day of driving the P-Vine to doctors appointments and still have things to do this evening other than pudder stuff so it may not be until tomorrow before I get to Nomi Prins but I will...

I do find it typically Sawz to twist shit into a shit pretzel with Nazis... That takes the kind of twisting that would have us believe that the Jews were responsible for the Holocaust but that what Sawz does... ((((yawn)))

Glad that others are seeing right thru Songwronger's wrong song... Wrong as wrong can be... What next??? The OWS responsible for the kidnapping of the Linburg baby??? I mean, these tin-foilers are just downright unbelievable in the utter horse poo that that are willing ti ingest and spit out as "facts"???

More later...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:53 PM

Okay, now I've at least skimmed thru Nomi Prins writings and other than being a complete and total fox, she has it figured out...

I have written here on other threads the BS games that Wall Street plays to extract real cash out for their guys... I have compared "credit default swaps" to a bunch of rich guys sitting around a poker table playing with real people's money and another bunch of rich guys behind them with side bets and no matter who wins or loses, real money is "extracted" out of our economy that was earned by working people and buried in rich people's backyards...

This is the problem... Be it "derivatives" or "credit default swaps" it doesn't matter... These are ballgames that Wall Street crooks use to extract cash out of our economy... That money can no longer be used to be spent and therefore go from hand to hand and that is what GNP is all about... Dollars have to move... The rich have taken trillions out of circulation... Doesn't take a PhD in economics to tell ya' that that ain't good for the economy...

I mean, let's get real here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 09:44 PM

Nomi Prins writes about the OWS movement:

The protesters behind Occupy Wall Street and their supporters, of which I am one, share a gut feeling of utter disgust, rage and frustration at the havoc our nation's policies, from Washington to Wall Street, have wreaked not only on this current economy, but on hope of a more stable, widespread financial security for the future.

As such, the manifesto released by Occupy Wall Street is actually fairly complete, more so than its detractors would have people believe. The list includes requirements that others and I have argued for years, such as bringing back Glass-Steagall (i.e., breaking up the banks) and detaching corporate money and its influence from the political system.

More than at any other time in our nation's history, bipartisan political leaders, regulatory bodies and quasi-private entities, like the Federal Reserve, have subsidized an unstable, risk-laden, abusive and sometimes criminal banking system, which, through its unchecked practices, has catalyzed what I consider another Great Depression that will last for years.

Beyond the explicit demands and solutions of the manifesto, many of which exist at a level more complex than the dozens of different slogans paraded through streets nationwide, there are more visceral needs at a basic human level that prompted people to demonstrate.

First and foremost, protesters want accountability from Wall Street ("They got bailed out, we got sold out.") They seek punishment for people who committed economic crimes against the population, rather than indignant political gamesmanship that produces no result.

("From New York to L.A., Make the Wall Street Bankers Pay.") People get hauled into jail for minor drug infractions, and yet major fraud and market and securities manipulation remain rampant and systemic.

Protesters want jobs and the financial security that comes with them.

As in countries like Greece, Spain, Ireland and Egypt, more than 25% of the youth in this country are unemployed - and that number is growing.

Add that to the 16% to 17% of underemployed individuals, and it's no wonder that desperation has reached this visible point.

I wrote in this publication as the demonstrations in Cairo were reaching their peak that they were more about economic desperation than desire for political or leadership change. If people can't afford to eat or protect themselves financially, they revolt - there's nothing left to lose at that point.

Students want affordable education. Due to our current monetary policy of near zero-rate money, banks receive exceedingly cheap financing terms, which they have not bestowed upon their degree-seeking customers.

Homeowners want to keep their homes. To date, there have been about $1 billion of SEC mortgage-related "settlements" with Wall Street. They are negotiated absent requiring any admission of guilt, nor a dial-back of foreclosures or increase in refinancings to help borrowers. With $7 trillion of value lost from the housing market in the past few years, people understandably want to revise their economic profiles.

The biggest banks make that nearly impossible, despite the multitrillion-dollar largesse received from the government in their darkest hours.

Finally, protesters want fairer distribution of wealth and taxes.

They don't want cutbacks to social/economic programs, or for public service or private sector jobs to pay for federal generosity to a Wall Street comprising banks that are not just too big to fail, but bigger than they were before their subsidies and bailouts were initiated a few years ago. ("They Say Cut Back, We Say Fight Back")

In other words, the protesters may be learning from each other as they go along - and are all there for different reasons, with different degrees of knowledge and understanding of how to reach the goals they seek and even the complexity of the span of demands that exist and may grow. And that's just fine.