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BS: Wall Street Protesters...

Related threads:
Occupy Wall Street Songs (33)
a song for Wall Street (6)
BS: The Meaning of OWS (Occupy Wall Street) (31)
PETE (Seeger at Occupy Wall Street) (21)
Songs For The 99% (11)


Lox 20 Oct 11 - 09:25 AM
Bobert 20 Oct 11 - 09:15 AM
Bobert 20 Oct 11 - 08:55 AM
Greg F. 20 Oct 11 - 08:52 AM
Greg F. 20 Oct 11 - 08:46 AM
GUEST,999 20 Oct 11 - 04:18 AM
akenaton 20 Oct 11 - 03:50 AM
Little Hawk 20 Oct 11 - 02:00 AM
Songwronger 20 Oct 11 - 12:51 AM
Don Firth 20 Oct 11 - 12:34 AM
Don Firth 20 Oct 11 - 12:16 AM
Songwronger 19 Oct 11 - 11:47 PM
Little Hawk 19 Oct 11 - 11:14 PM
Bobert 19 Oct 11 - 09:06 PM
Don Firth 19 Oct 11 - 09:01 PM
Bobert 19 Oct 11 - 08:42 PM
Little Hawk 19 Oct 11 - 08:30 PM
Bobert 19 Oct 11 - 08:23 PM
Don Firth 19 Oct 11 - 08:14 PM
Bobert 19 Oct 11 - 08:12 PM
Little Hawk 19 Oct 11 - 07:46 PM
Lox 19 Oct 11 - 06:07 PM
Bobert 19 Oct 11 - 05:57 PM
GUEST,999 19 Oct 11 - 05:55 PM
pdq 19 Oct 11 - 05:33 PM
Bobert 19 Oct 11 - 05:11 PM
Little Hawk 19 Oct 11 - 04:43 PM
GUEST,999 19 Oct 11 - 04:38 PM
Little Hawk 19 Oct 11 - 04:23 PM
Little Hawk 19 Oct 11 - 04:15 PM
GUEST,999 19 Oct 11 - 02:01 PM
GUEST,beardedbruce 19 Oct 11 - 01:15 PM
GUEST,beardedbruce 19 Oct 11 - 12:08 PM
GUEST,beardedbruce 19 Oct 11 - 11:56 AM
akenaton 19 Oct 11 - 11:53 AM
GUEST,999 19 Oct 11 - 11:33 AM
GUEST,beardedbruce 19 Oct 11 - 11:15 AM
GUEST,999 19 Oct 11 - 10:33 AM
GUEST,beardedbruce 19 Oct 11 - 10:18 AM
Greg F. 19 Oct 11 - 10:05 AM
GUEST,beardedbruce 19 Oct 11 - 09:25 AM
Bobert 19 Oct 11 - 09:14 AM
GUEST,beardedbruce 19 Oct 11 - 09:08 AM
bobad 19 Oct 11 - 08:09 AM
GUEST,beardedbruce 19 Oct 11 - 07:38 AM
Lox 19 Oct 11 - 03:39 AM
Songwronger 18 Oct 11 - 11:30 PM
GUEST,999 18 Oct 11 - 10:50 PM
Don Firth 18 Oct 11 - 10:04 PM
Lox 18 Oct 11 - 07:24 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 09:25 AM

Songwronger,

You need to listen to them - its no secret.

the OWS keeps repeating itself again and again.

The 1% who have all the wealth and power.


That is called feudalism - in this case corporate feudalism.


Democracy has always been about taking power out of the hands of the 1% and sharing it with the other 99%.


This is the same thing.


The 1% has somehow managed to get all the power back and the 99% are saying - hold on time to do a democracy reset.


It isn't about us and them, that is just taking language from other unrelated issues (nationalism, race, gender etc) and misapplying it.


This is 100% about simple straight forward democracy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 09:15 AM

Oh, and just for the record, Obama was not on the architectural firm that designed Reaganomics... He was the poor guy who had and has to deal with the corrupt bastards who did and who are hell bent on keeping Reaganomics as our economic model... And he is being out PR'd because these bastards also own 100% of BIG MEDIA...

And that's why we have folks out there spreading "Obama gave $15T" propaganda...

Garbage in = garbage out...

And as for the OWS movement being controlled by the right wing??? Koch head mythology plucked from thin air...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:55 AM

Don't know where you get your supposed "facts", songwronger, but they aren't facts but mythology... Glass-Steagall was on the Reaganomic practitioners hit list going way back... The Republican Congress repealed it knowing full well that with all the dirty tricks they had played on Clinton that he was not going to repeal it... That's purdy much why he went along with Welfare Reform...

As for Obama giving a $15T stimulus to the banks??? Hog wash... He did no such thing... Reality is that he came into office with a collapsing economy and the strongest opposition party since Abraham Lincoln and he has done what he could... Which ain't all that much... The actual stimulus was $300B in spending and $400 in tax cuts...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:52 AM

Interesting view Here


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:46 AM

Before long, if you own a house, you'll be in the 1%.

I see the Horatio Alger myth is alive & well. Not to mention false class consciousness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:18 AM

"So, who are the 1%? In the French Revolution it was "the monarchy," and look at how many lost their heads there."

About 13,000.

However, that is nowhere near the number who have died as a result of policies that killed millions around the world through starvation, war and other forms of genocide. I have great difficulty feeling sorrow for people who have created 60,000,000 victims who hang onto life with no hope of a tomorrow.

Mob rule? I fail to see how people sleeping in parks is mob rule. They rule nothing, not even their own lives. The so-called 1% deserve what the get, even if it is their bloody heads handed to them.

The houses you mention being stolen: the 1% have already stolen those houses. Three million houses, and that's a low figure. I have never wept for Custer, Stalin or Pol Pot, and I will never weep for the scum who played, play and continue to play games with people's lives. Save your sorrow for those who need it but maybe at last will no longer want it.

The breakdown in social order was and is not caused by people sleeping in parks. It is caused by those who left them no place else to sleep. The breakdown in social order is not caused by people stealing bread to eat. It is caused by those who have priced bread beyond ordinary means.

I feel no empathy or sympathy for the Evita Perons of this world. Nor for the Eichmanns and Pinochets who do their biddings. Nor for the Wall Street crowd so inconvenienced by the mob in the park. Fu#k 'em. They felt no remorse when hundreds of millions died as a result of the policies and practices that allowed them to steal their money. I feel no sorrow or remorse for them now.

"Although the pharmaceutical industry claims to be a high-risk business, year after year drug companies enjoy higher profits than any other industry. In 2002, for example, the top 10 drug companies in the United States had a median profit margin of 17%, compared with only 3.1% for all the other industries on the Fortune 500 list.1 Indeed, subtracting losses from gains, those 10 companies made more in profits that year than the other 490 companies put together. Pfizer, the world's number-one drug company, had a profit margin of 26% of sales. In 2003, for the first time in over 2 decades, the pharmaceutical industry fell slightly from its number-one spot to third, but this was explained by special circumstances, including Pfizer's purchase of another drug giant, Pharmacia, which cut into its profits for the year. The industry's profits were still an extraordinary 14% of sales, well above the median of 4.6% for other industries.2 "

Don't cry for me Argentina? Unlikely. I'll probably dance in the streets.

No more!


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:50 AM

I suspect many Democrats here see this movement as merely a stick to beat conservatives with......I do not think there are many who appreciate what the required systemic change will mean in practice.

If it is not handled with more care, it could end in severe loss of life.

I notice that you are still saying that the regulation of the banking system can repair the damage done......this is "whistling in the dark"....Deregulation is a desperate measure, taken by governments of "left" and "right", to promote growth in the economy through the marketing of financial "products".

It is a desperate measure taken when a Capitalist society has nothing left to exploit.....and so begins, like a rat in a cage, to devour itself.

Without economic growth, Capitalism is doomed and I see no sign of producing that growth in the near or distant future.

Whatever the future holds, it will be neither easy, nor "liberal"

BITE THE BULLET!


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 02:00 AM

Yeah, sure the old Right/Left system is breaking down. I've been saying that for years. Its primary purpose in recent elections has been to keep the public distracted by fighting with each other over the old partisan Right/Left symbology while all the parties tacitly serve the business and banking elite once elected. The Right/Left thing is just camouflage as far as I'm concerned. They trot out Bush on one side, Obama on the other, convince you that Obama is the moral antithesis to Bush...so people rush out to vote for "change"...but it's just cosmetic change. Obama gets elected and "Surprise!"...he ends up pursuing quite similar overall policies to what Bush was pursuing, and he gets away with it easier than Bush could have...because he's not Bush. The supposed "change" he inspired the hopes of the electorate with was a good sales job, but it has not happened. I don't believe it was ever intended to happen. He put some of the key architects of the banks' ponzi scheme into high positions of power in his administration. That tells me who he's really working for...the same basic interests Bush II and Clinton and Bush I and Reagan all worked for. The party divide is there to fool people into thinking they can change what's happening by voting in "the other party"...and it works beautifully! People are fooled. Again and again. What a shameful situation it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 12:51 AM

Your old system left-right system is breaking down. Perceptive people realize that Rush Limbaugh and NPR tell the same lie about the "one trillion dollar stimulus." They both quote the same figure, and that figure is a lie. Obama's stimulus gave closer to 15 trillion to the banks. Yet the "left" and "right" news outlets say it was one trillion. An agreed-upon lie. Why would they do that? Because their job is to deceive you.

Maybe you still push the left-right thing because the new reality is too horrible to comtemplate. The new 99%/1%. The 1% WANTS you to hate them because there's nothing you can do to touch them. And when people realize they can't touch Soros and Buffett, they'll want a percentage of SOMETHING, and that's when the middle class will suffer.

You say you own your house. I want it. Get the fuck out of my house.

That's how redistribution works. That's how the 1% wants us to treat one another. The old left-right crap worked for a long time and will still work for a while, but now we're getting into anarchy and mob rule. Maybe you're holding onto the old left-right thing because you realize how dangerous the new paradigm is to you, as a property-owner. Spout me some more Marxism from the comfort of your home.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 12:34 AM

"There is no wealth in America. Not significant wealth. The wealthy have moved their money overseas."

You're right about that, songwronger. They've put it all in Swiss banks and in the Cayman Islands. And this comes partly from their not paying their fair share of taxes--and from receiving multimillion dollar bonuses despite having totally screwed up. But most of the money they're shipping out of the country is bail-out money that was supposed to be used to create jobs.

THIS, as I have pointed out several times on this thread, is ONE of the things the OWS folks are angry about.

Not really that difficult to grasp.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 12:16 AM

Like I said, Songwronger. You need to get out and mingle, not sit at home and read Right-Wing blogs and listen to Fox News. It keeps you clueless.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 11:47 PM

The good thing to come out of OWS so far is that people are crediting the Democrat/Republican mindset less and less. Clinton didn't repeal Glass-Steagall because of the Republicans and a blowjob... Obama didn't offer to cut Social Security because of the Republicans and the Tea Party... Clinton and Obama are just as establishment (bank) as Reagan and Bush. Clinton signed NAFTA, gutting the U.S. unions. The Republicans didn't make him do it. Those days of false blame-casting are over. Clinton/Bush/Obama are all on the same team, just handing off the ball to one another, playing offense and defense.

OWS is showing, though, a new and more insidious mindset. The new "us vs them" standoff isn't between 50% on one side and 50% on the other anymore, it's now 99% vs 1%.

So, who are the 1%? In the French Revolution it was "the monarchy," and look at how many lost their heads there. After the monarchy was gone you were executed if you were just against "the revolution." And look at Pol Pot and his war against intellectuals. After the professors were dead he ending up killing, what...40% of his country because they were too intellectual?

So who is this 1% that the OWS 99% are going to "get?" And after they're gotten, who's in the next 1%? Because you'll never shake this mania once it gets hold of you. Before long, if you own a house, you'll be in the 1%. Off with your head. Own a car? Off with your head.

The saddest thing in the OWS movement is the Marxist talk about redistribution of wealth. There is no wealth in America. Not significant wealth. The wealthy have moved their money overseas. Any redistribution will be of middle-class money. OWS appears to be just the latest assault on the middle class.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 11:14 PM

Yeah, I've had similar conversations with them. I hear they call people like us "deadbeats" in the credit card industry. They consider our lack of debt to be downright unpatriotic.

Barter is a wonderful idea, Don, one that people should probably make considerably more use of. People in a community could circumvent the money system itself for many things by issuing their own "credits" through a local organization that traded goods and labour of all sorts through exchanging x amount of credits and recording it at the local credit exchange. (and some communities have done so). The government doesn't care for the idea, because they can't figure out how to tax it. Banks don't care for it either.

"What if they issued a currency and nobody showed interest?" (Same as "What if they gave a war and nobody came?") A population can only be enslaved by money if they allow themselves to be by first surrendering to it...and using it for all their transactions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 09:06 PM

I'm in the same position, Don, and these folks just don't get it??? What, you don't want out money??? What the heck is wrong with you, man???

LOL...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 09:01 PM

I've posted this a number of times before, but I think it might bear repeating.

One of the kinds of telephone solicitation calls that I get fairly often (makes me smirk) is someone from a financial institution telling me that "We can assist you in making your mortgage payments!"

"Well, thank you," say I, "but our mortgage was paid off about thirty years ago. We own our home outright."

I can hear the creak of his jaw dropping. Then he takes another breath and says, "Well, we are also equipped to assist you in paying off your credit card debt."

"Thanks again," I say, "but my wife and I make it a point to pay off our credit card balance every month. We don't have any credit card debt."

All of this is true, by the way. He never gets as far as car payments, but there, too, our 1999 Toyota Corona is all paid for—and it only has about 30,000 miles on it, and due to the fine work of the mechanic at a gas station and garage three blocks away, it's well maintained and runs just fine, thank you.

Here's a word that can give bankers cold chills:

Barter.

(Worked just fine for hundreds if not thousands of years.)

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:42 PM

BINGO, LH...


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:30 PM

Well said, Don. I have no need for you to buy Icke's whole package. I don't buy his whole package. But I am delighted to hear someone explain the banker's Ponzi scheme of present day money creation that clearly.

Imagine what any of us could do if we could create money that way, with the mere tap of a computer keyboard. Why...we (and our colleagues) could end up running the world...and get fabulously rich.

And if it created a financial crisis, we could ask for a bailout. ;-) And then do it again. And again. And again.

Money is power. He who creates the money has the power. The banks have created virtually all the money that is now listed on their balance sheets, and the governments are in hock to them up to their eyeballs...and the public is paying the bill.

Banks must be stringently regulated to stop this from continuing to happen. And it would be a very good idea to put printed money back on a gold or silver standard, every dollar redeemable in a fixed amount of gold or silver upon demand. It used to be that way. It was discontinued so the bankers could run their Ponzi schemes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:23 PM

Looks as if we each came to the same conclusion, Don...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:14 PM

Give him his due. David Icke gives the clearest and most succinct explanation of the banking system, and economics in general, that I've ever heard.

This "vapor money" and the ability to manipulate it, as he describes, is one of the reasons that, in times past, there was such a strong campaign—and a successful one, obviously—to abandon the gold standard, where having a dollar bill in your hand meant that there was a dollar's worth of gold on deposit, and you could take that dollar to a bank and get the equivalent in gold. Since there is a limited supply of gold, that meant that the supply of money was limited also. Which meant that you couldn't "create money" the way the banking system does now, because for every dollar there had to be an equivalent amount of gold somewhere and you could demand actual possession of it.

Remember silver certificates? Same deal there. Every silver certificate (fives, tens, twenties, etc) had "Redeemable on demand" printed on it. They were taken out of circulation in 1965.

Were you aware, when Reagan appointed him Fed Chairman, that Alan Greenspan was a disciple of Ayn Rand? I was. And figured, "This is ominous!" Deregulation! Complete deregulation!

But—

As far as the entire video is concerned, David Icke leads us through the door into his own private fantasy. A former English sports announcer (presenter) turned writer, public speaker, and general pot-stirrer, he has written a book entitled The Biggest Secret, which is considered by many to be "the conspiracy theorists' Rosetta Stone." Some of the things he comes up with are in the realm of really bad science fiction.

But his explanation of the credit system in the U. S. is really quite good. It's where he tries to take it…….

Of course there will be those who will get on my case for not buying Icke's whole package, but—so be it.

####

Detractors of OWS can quote polls and echo Fox News 'til hell freezes over, but the comments by Josh Brown that I quote above are right on the mark. And OWS and its mirror demonstrations (some 900 cities across the country AND in cities overseas) are starting to have a salutary effect.

Among other things, it has the Right Wing peeing its pants in sheer fright.

Seattle City Councilman Nick Licata was on the radio this morning, being interviewed by KUOW's Steve Scher. Among other things, he said that the Mayor McGinn and the City Council know where OWS and our local edition, Occupy Seattle demonstrating at Westlake Park, are coming from. They have gone to Westlake Park and actually TALKED with the people there, asked questions, and listened to what they said.

One of the results is that the City Council is now examining the banks and financial agencies that the city has been using in the management of the city's funds and checking on their practices and procedures.

"And," said Licata, "we were not entirely happy with what we find. We will be making some changes!"

He also said that he knew that Los Angeles and a number of other cities were doing the same thing.

So, said banks and other financial institutions had better clean up their act or they will be losing some BIG clients!

Now, I'd say that's fairly effective, wouldn't you?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:12 PM

It only makes sense to a point, LH... Some of the OWS chapters have gone on record of demanding the restoration of Glass-Steagall... Repealing it, which BTW was something that the Repubs pushed and had Slick Willie on their meatgrinder over a blow job over, opened up this "prefect storm"... The repeal was the ultimate Reaganomics victory... It is also what brought about the near collapse of the economy on September of 2008...

Icke goes way too far here... He has the same story that my dad use to tell about these "5 Jews who run the entire world" conspiracy theory... That's where I get off, thank you... This isn't about "5 Jews"... It's about Reganomics... It's about a corrupt government... It's about the insanity of deregulation... Deregulated capitalism = disaster...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 07:46 PM

I'm not suggesting you associate OWS with David Icke. I'm suggesting that you might find interest in listening to his talk about the financial crisis. It makes a lot of sense. It's what he's talking about in that video that connects to the OWS movement, because it is the essence of what the movement is protesting against. To let your personal problems with David Icke (because of some other thing he said at some time) affect your comprehension of what he's explaining in that video will not be helpful at all.

Most people are not right about everything. Most of them are right about some things, and they're mistaken about others. I think David Icke is quite correct in most of what he says in that video regarding the financial crisis, and I don't feel he has to be right about EVERYTHING else he's ever said in his whole life before I give that video my serious attention. I don't expect David Icke or anyone else in this world to have the right answer to EVERYTHING...and that leaves me free to consider this particular video on its own merits...rather than just making a kneejerk decision to accept it or reject it in its entirety merely because it's emanating from.....David Icke.

I'm willing to listen to anyone. Pay attention closely. See if it makes any sense to me. If it does make sense, I don't particularly care who said it. It's what they said that counts. What David Icke is saying in that video makes sense to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 06:07 PM

I think the less we associate OWS with David Icke the better!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 05:57 PM

That, pdq, is one thing that we agree upon... I can a take a little of David but then he, like Lyndon LaRouche, goes into a conspiracy world that I find a tad hard to believe...

Bring back Glass-Staegall and all of this goes away, anyway...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 05:55 PM

So he's strange. He's also right about the financial 'crisis', one in a continuing line of crises brought on by crooked politicians, crooked bankers and a very crooked Wall Street.

Attack what he said about finance, or don't. Character assassination because he said what he thinks on another front has NO bearing on what he has said in this instance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: pdq
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 05:33 PM

Little Hawk mentions David Icke...

"...set out a moral and political worldview that combined New-Age spiritualism with a passionate denunciation of totalitarian trends in the modern world. At the heart of his theories lies the idea that the world is becoming a global fascist state, that a secret group of reptilian humanoids called the Babylonian Brotherhood controls humanity, and that many prominent figures are reptilian, including George W. Bush, Queen Elizabeth II, Kris Kristofferson, and Boxcar Willie."

Listeneng to David Icke will give you a headache.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 05:11 PM

I'm about half way through the link that LH put up... Very interesting so far...

And...


...400...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 04:43 PM

Got it. Thanks!


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 04:38 PM

I just messaged you, LH.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 04:23 PM

When I said "Bruce", I meant 999.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 04:15 PM

Are you not a member now, Bruce? I tried to PM you and I couldn't find you on the list.

What I wanted to do was send you a link to this talk by David Icke about the financial meltdown, the banks, Bush and Obama, etc...it's very good, very well thought out, very clearly explained. The interviewer is on a Russian TV show (I think it's Russian...sounds like it), so his questions are in Russian, but David Icke replies in English. Since David Icke does most of the talking, this works fine for for us English-speaking viewers even if we don't comprehend the Russian language questions. So don't be put off by the brief Russian language intro at the beginning, just wait for David Icke to reply to the questions.

David Icke speaks about the world financial crisis


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 02:01 PM

beardedbruce,

You I trust. Ake I trust. However, there is not one single source from any main-stream media publication I trust. NOT ONE!

The purpose of media is to manipulate. I do not care what they have to say. It is meaningless to me. I can read lies, obfuscations, bullsh#t, falsehoods, aspersions, untruths until the cows come home. And at the end of the day they will still be lies, obfuscations, bullsh#t, falsehoods, aspersions and/or untruths. Poor people don't own newspapers, television stations, radio stations. Rich people, governments, corporate conglomerates do. To me, it's that simple.

I'm not angry, I'm fed up. Period.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 01:15 PM

"You asked earlier about "Occupy Wall Street" and what I've said is that I understand the frustrations that are being expressed in those protests. In some ways, they're not that different from some of the protests that we saw coming from the Tea Party, both on the left and the right. I think people feel separated from their government, that the institutions aren't looking out for them "


http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/transcript-abc-news-jake-tappers-exclusive-interview-president/story?id=14764446&singlePage=true


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 12:08 PM

btw, isn't



http://www.klfy.com/story/15717759/second-hand-dealer-law


the sort of thing that puts more control in the banks? I THINK that the 99% would think it a bad idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 11:56 AM

Bruce,

You are letting your anger interfere with even reading posts.

I put up a post that Gallup says of all polled, 22% support what they think are the OWS goals.
THAT poll says that 63% don't know enough to say.

Bobad posted that, contrary to expectations, the FOX poll shows 70% of respondants saying they support the goals of the OWS. I then invited comment by Bobert, since he claims that FOX viewers/listeners are all bigoted, racist, ignorant yahoos. ( who support OWS, it seems)

I am then attacked by greggie, and you seem to think that I have made some comment ABOUT THE GOALS of the OWS Movement- WHICH I HAVE NOT!!!!

Stop telling me I am wrong when for all you know I AGREE WITH YOU!!!

THAT is a certain way to make sure nothing gets done.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 11:53 AM

Actually, on the subject of percentages, i think we are concentrating on the wrong demographics.

The really important percentage is the one which reflects the number of people who feel they still have a stake in the system.
I'm talking about property owners, pensioners, public employees, university graduates, those of us with a few measly grand in the bank, etc etc.....at a rough guess,80%.

Against that, those with nothing to lose at all and those with something to lose, but who dont give a flying fuck whether they lose it or not,......like me, a lifelong Communist, politically motivated against Capitalism.......20%???

Now my days as a gambler tell me that these percentages are piss poor, and we will be marginalised. If we continue we will be liquidated.

This is not the way to go, by all means get rid of the system but do it from inside, We must be united with the majority...who are conservative, so that means a change of direction from the left.

A tactical retreat......we fucked up big time in not recognising the value of Mrs Palin and the Tea Party....and its anti politics stance.

Never expect to change this system in a month or a year, think about a couple of generations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 11:33 AM

The logic doesn't work, BB. It went out the window when banks were bailed out with tax payer money; when CEOs who'd screwed their corporations were given millions to retire with; when a succession of governments ripped off and created the poor; when 46% of your congress became millionaires; when 60 million people sank below the poverty line.

Sorry, buddy, but there ain't too many folks for you to convince. Tell me the above ain't true. Go ahead.

But it is true, and there's little left of the American Dream for the 99%. NO MORE.

I do not care what 2000 polled people think, chosen because they represent the average person. There are NO MORE average people. Fu#k the polls. They are tools to manipulate. NO MORE and no less.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 11:15 AM

Bruce,

Did you even bother to look at the poll before you commented. they tell you the question- so don't tell us

"If, as so many claim, no one KNOWS what OWS wants, how can the pollsters even begin to understand which questions to ask? "

IF that is so, I would claim that since NO ON knows what OWS wants, then NO ONE can be in support of it.

In fact, the question was asked
"Do you approve or disapprove of the goals of the Occupy Wall Street movement, or don't you know enough to say?"

IF you bothered to look you would have seen that- the result was that 22% OF THOSE ASKED THOUGHT THEY KNEW the goals, and approved of them.

As long as people here throw around that 99% number, I think it resaonable to use numbers- unless you are insisting that ONLY YOU are allowed to do so, and the rest of us have to follow a different set of rules. MY understanding is that that is one thing the OWS movement is AGAINST. Yet some here want it to be used to prevent discussion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 10:33 AM

The polls do NOT matter. OWS started without benefit of polls, continued without benefit of polls and will continue without benefit of polls, thank you very much.

Polls are tools used to manipulate public opinion. If, as so many claim, no one KNOWS what OWS wants, how can the pollsters even begin to understand which questions to ask?

#######################################

Poll designed by an architecture student:

Do you like the building structures in the Wall Street area.

YES         72%
NO          23%
DON'T KNOW   5%


Story in the news:

A recent poll conducted by students at Justask University has concluded that 72% of the people who responded like Wall Street. This bodes poorly for Occupy Wall Street protesters.

#########################################

Meanwhile, back on the street . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 10:18 AM

Well, gregie boy,

"anyone with pretensions to intelligence would believe them is beyond me."

You mean that the fact that 70% of the respondents SUPPORT the Occupy movements goals indicates how stupid they are??

What does that say about you???


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 10:05 AM

Well, Beardie, with the track record that Faux News (owned, directed & scripted by that paragon of virtue & probity Rupert Murdoch)has established for outright lies, distortions and fantasy, how anyone with pretensions to intelligence would believe them is beyond me.

But you're free to believe what you wish...


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 09:25 AM

Bobert,

Let me see.

Gallup says 22% of the public in general.
NBC says 47% of the public in general.
FOX says 70% of ITS VIEWERS that responded to the survey support.

AND YOU SAY
" The right hates OWS because it is exposing their weaknesses, which are many..."

AND claim that FOX viewers are right wing.



and YOU criticise the Tea Party????????????????????

THEY are more in support of Occupy than the left-leaning NBC, or the neutral Gallup says that the general public is.

Please send up some of what you are smoking- I need an alternate reality like that!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 09:14 AM

First of all any one who thinks that OWS is being directed by the right wing is deep in Coolaid-ville... But that entire line of offense/defence is nothing but a right winged talking point... The right hates OWS because it is exposing their weaknesses, which are many...

So the right wing will continue with pushing their PR propaganda...

And the polls I am hearing do not resemble the one that bb posted... Even the right winged BIG MEDIA NBC had the approval rating of 47%???

That's why polls are so unreliable... They are easily rigged.... Just as elections are rigged...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 09:08 AM

Bobert,

Care to comment on these two reports, in light of YOUR comments about FOX Viewers???




"Fox News is running a poll on their website asking readers if the 99 Percent movement represents their views on the economy. In a move that likely surprised the network — which has consistently belittled, smeared, distorted, and otherwise dismissed the protests — the vast majority of respondents, many of whom are likely Fox viewers, said they agree with the movement:




"22% approve of the Occupy movement."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/150164/Americans-Uncertain-Occupy-Wall-Street-Goals.aspx




70% of FOX respondents ( IE, those who choose to reply to FOX polls) support , while Gallup says 22% of non-selected (IE, everyone) support the Occupy protests.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: bobad
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:09 AM

Fox News Poll Backfires: 70 Percent Support Occupy Wall Street | Fox News is running a poll on their website asking readers if the 99 Percent movement represents their views on the economy. In a move that likely surprised the network — which has consistently belittled, smeared, distorted, and otherwise dismissed the protests — the vast majority of respondents, many of whom are likely Fox viewers, said they agree with the movement:

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/10/12/342314/fox-news-poll-backfires-70-percent-support-occupy-wall-street/



The media demands one headline per protest: Whaddya mean there's no clear cut program


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 07:38 AM

"22% approve of the Occupy movement."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/150164/Americans-Uncertain-Occupy-Wall-Street-Goals.aspx


"The poll sought to contrast support for Occupy Wall Street with another prominent American movement, the Tea Party. In the poll, 22% describe themselves as Tea Party movement supporters, 27% as opponents, and 47% as neither. Gallup has typically found that about equal percentages of Americans are Tea Party supporters or opponents, with the greatest percentage neutral. Thus, the current level of public support for Occupy Wall Street is similar to that for the Tea Party movement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 03:39 AM

Songwronger - if enough people refuse to participate, those at the top will have to redraw the social contract.

Call it blackmail if you like, but its no worse than saying "accept my cock up your ass or I'll go and give it to someone in Mexico"

Social global media is allowing more and more people too communiicate worldwide and government attempts to control the net are failing at every step.

You CAN watch BBC in the USA - you CAN get facebook in china ...

... its easy and everyone knows how to do it in places where there are restrictions.


the message will be simple ... "we're not playing till the rules are changed" ...

... big money is only powerful when it can buy people.

When people demand a higher price together, things will change.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 11:30 PM

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0oG7n6RPZ5OxyQASbdXNyoA?p=obama%20silicon%20dinner%20picture&fr2=piv
<


Pics of Obama celebrating with Silicon Valley bigwigs after Mubarak was ousted. Obama thought his CIA had a new method of installing thuggish military regimes without bloodshed, but then came Libya.

OWS was begun by a Marxist magazine and now it's being guided by right-wing anarchists who direct participants to expend their energy in non-productive ways.

And that NPR piece. They under reported the cost of the financial fiasco by TRILLIONS. They're part of the problem, same as the conservative outlets. Keep the public in the dark while pretending to shed light.

OWS makes me think of Howard Beale saying, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" That's all well and good, but where's the plan? Watching people moan about "the 1%" doesn't accomplish anything.

The cold will soon cut back on the protests, but then the main attraction will come next year, when the economy REALLY tanks. People will go out for their comfortable little protests, and the anarchists will provocateur. I mean, hey, if you want anarchy, you're going to get it. For a while.

Either get a clear cut program FAST, or have one foisted on you by the demonic government you're threatening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 10:50 PM

Ake, hello.

Was thinking about how far you and I go back and the fact we've been on opposite sides of issues frequently and still never let that interfere with a good friendship. This is no different. Not one of us here need convince anyone else of anything.

The greatest fear rampant in the world today is that expressed by the money people: WHAT do they want?

They are afraid they may lose their positions of wealth, and they will if currency devalues. So, what choice do they have except to find ways to ensure that doesn't happen!

###############################################

Maggie's Farm written by Bob Dylan

I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more
No, I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more
Well, I wake in the morning
Fold my hands and pray for rain
I got a head full of ideas
That are drivin' me insane
It's a shame the way she makes me scrub the floor
I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more

I ain't gonna work for Maggie's brother no more
No, I ain't gonna work for Maggie's brother no more
Well, he hands you a nickel
He hands you a dime
He asks you with a grin
If you're havin' a good time
Then he fines you every time you slam the door
I ain't gonna work for Maggie's brother no more

I ain't gonna work for Maggie's pa no more
No, I ain't gonna work for Maggie's pa no more
Well, he puts his cigar
Out in your face just for kicks
His bedroom window
It is made out of bricks
The National Guard stands around his door
Ah, I ain't gonna work for Maggie's pa no more

I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more
No, I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more
Well, she talks to all the servants
About man and God and law
Everybody says
She's the brains behind pa
She's sixty-eight, but she says she's twenty-four
I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more

I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more
No, I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more
Well, I try my best
To be just like I am
But everybody wants you
To be just like them
They sing while you slave and I just get bored
I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more

Copyright © 1965 by Warner Bros. Inc.; renewed 1993 by Special Rider Music

#########################################

Ake, they need us more than we need them. Truthfully, what's the difference between competing with each other for wages set by Wall Street and not competing with each other for the wages they set? We can all get good 'wages' by cooperating with each other and completely ignoring Wall Street. Let those a$$holes come to us with their caps in their damned hands--just for a change. This ain't for us, anyway. We'll be dead before any changes of substance are made to banking systems or ways of doing business. But our kids won't, nor their kids. Gradually, as we speak WITH each other, we shall find consensus. Wrong or right, it will be better than what we have now. Workers let go weeks before they have pensions; houses stolen by banks; cheap watches as parting gifts while the money people get five million dollar handshakes for fu#king up their businesses, and fu#king up our money earned by our labour.

I don't know exactly where this road leads, but I do know where the other one goes to, and it ain't good. Slavery, destitution, extreme poverty.

I have no answers that would convince anyone of anything. But then it's not my responsibility to have answers for questions designed to make people argue with each other. The fact we talk scares them. And for now, that's good enough. Let the money people be scared for a change. Let the arrogant scum walk a few miles in the shoes we've worn all our lives. Then, we may be able to treat as equals. Not before.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 10:04 PM

Tess Vigeland is the host of "Marketplace Money" on American Public Media. I heard this on my local NPR affiliate this afternoon. Josh Brown states, briefly and to the point, just what the OWS protesters are all about.

If I were to merely post a link to the audio or printed versions of the interview, it would be gone within a few days, so I'm posting the printed version here for your enlightenment and edification.
Tess Vigeland: Inequity is arguably the main rallying cry of the Occupy movement. And on that score, the primary bogeymen are the nation's bankers, brokers and traders -- the so-called "one-percenters" who control about a third of the country's wealth.

Commentator Josh Brown is one of those one-percenters. He's an investment adviser at Fusion Analytics in Manhattan. If you think you know what his take on all this is going to be, here's his open letter to the banks that don't seem to get why people are mad.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Josh Brown: In 2008, the American people were told that if they didn't bail out the banks, there way of life would never be the same. In no uncertain terms, our leaders told us anything short of saving these insolvent banks would result in a depression to the American public. We had to do it!

At our darkest hour we gave these banks every single thing they asked for. We allowed investment banks to borrow money at zero percent interest rate, directly from the Fed. We gave them taxpayer cash right onto their balance sheets. We allowed them to suspend account rules and pretend that the toxic sludge they were carrying was worth 100 cents on the dollar. Anything to stave off insolvency. We left thousands of executives in place at these firms. Nobody went to jail, not a single perp walk. I can't even think of a single example of someone being fired. People resigned with full benefits and pensions, as though it were a job well done.

The American taxpayer kicked in over a trillion dollars to help make all of this happen. But the banks didn't hold up their end of the bargain. The banks didn't seize this opportunity, this second chance to re-enter society as a constructive agent of commerce. Instead, they went back to business as usual. With $20 billion in bonuses paid during 2009. Another $20 billion in bonuses paid in 2010. And they did this with the profits they earned from zero percent interest rates that actually acted as a tax on the rest of the economy.

Instead of coming back and working with this economy to get back on its feet, they hired lobbyists by the dozen to fight tooth and nail against any efforts whatsoever to bring common sense regulation to the financial industry. Instead of coming back and working with the people, they hired an army of robosigners to process millions of foreclosures. In many cases, without even having the proper paperwork to evict the homeowners. Instead, the banks announced layoffs in the tens of thousands, so that executives at the top of the pile could maintain their outrageous levels of compensation.

We bailed out Wall Street to avoid Depression, but three years later, millions of Americans are in a living hell. This is why they're enraged, this why they're assembling, this is why they hate you. Why for the first time in 50 years, the people are coming out in the streets and they're saying, "Enough."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vigeland: Josh Brown. He wrote a scathing blog post along these same lines earlier this week. You can also follow him on Twitter @reformedbroker.
If anyone was confused or in doubt about what it's all about, there it is!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 07:24 PM

Although it should also be noted that in Egypt the protests had been going on unreported for a couple of years and that trade unions played a very large part in keeping things coordinated.

Here trade unions are run by the pigs who took over the farm house and their leaders have grown fat. This is because they need to keep the goverment and big business happy or risk being closed down and having their funding interrupted. And there are some good salaries in Unions here ...

... so sisters are having to do it for themselves as it were ...

... but thats liberation for you!



Also, it is unpleasant to report that even in the last few days, protesters in egypt were crushed by the army att night in Tahrir Square, where the lights were turned off, the tanks were driven in and people were shot ...

... we're all fighting the same enemy ... people in Bahrain, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, USA, UK, HK, ... and wall street is the symbol of their power.


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