BS: Wall Street Protesters...

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 05:55 PM

Well, this thread being about OWS, you won't hear too much from either 'side' in the turmoil. OWS doesn't really care which party or persuasion the crooks are purporting to be with or people are assuming they're from. That should be fairly clear by now, imo. It's news, but so what? Been going on for decades. And soon it will have to come to a full stop.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 04:37 PM

Well BeeBee, several things.

1.If one actually reads the article cited, it was the Illinois Legislature that created this farce, not the Unions, so perhaps your outrage should be directed at them.

2. Here we have 2 or 3 individuals possibly getting between $300K & $500K. The corporate princes you love and defend regularly get MANY TIMES that per anum at separation PLUS multi-million dollar "bonuses" each year while employed.

As just one example of hundreds, General Motors' head Rick Wagoner got a $20 million retirement package as a reward for driving the company into bankruptcy.

Its a difference in kind, as well as in degree.

Try again.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 03:29 PM

last was mine...



"
Come, all you union members
And workers in your shop;
"

Shouldn't the Union members hold heir OWN leadership to ( at least) the standards they are told to hold the Corporations'?

By failing to do so, aren't they putting forth a double standard, that "Those who I support should not have to play by the same rules that those I disagree with do."?

The same reason I posted Obama getting more Corporate money than Bush or McCain. There is a tendency here to complain about the flaws of the other side while ignoring greater examples in those that are supported.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 03:26 PM

"
Come, all you union members
And workers in your shop;
"

Shouldn't the Union members hold heir OWN leadership to ( at least) the standards they are told to hold the Corporations'?

By failing to do so, aren't they putting forth a double standard, that "Those who I support should not have to play by the same rules that those I disagree with do."?

The same reason I posted Obama getting more Corporate money than Bush or McCain. There is a tendency here to complain about the flaws of the other side while ignoring greater examples in those that are supported.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 03:04 PM

"Union LEADERSHIP is as guilty as the Wall Street CEOs..."



If the facts are as stated in the article, BB, you are correct in being aghast. That said, what point are you making?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 02:40 PM

No, Don, that is definitely not why you and they don't get along, and you flatter yourself in imagining it is. The only way you guys could get along, IMO, would be if you met each other in real life, rather than through a remote device such as a computer, and you got to know each other as real people...and related on a great variety of levels rather than just fighting about politics. You would probably get along much better in that case. I can't guarantee it...but the odds would be greatly improved.

Remember: "politics is the Great Divider" (I said that) Its very premise is to divide and conquer. It lives on conflict (often even while preaching the gospel of "unity").

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 02:34 PM

Union LEADERSHIP is as guilty as the Wall Street CEOs...


"A labor leader in Chicago is expected to receive pension payments of nearly $500,000 a year, while another could get about $438,000 a year, according to reports Wednesday.
The Chicago Tribune and WGN-TV, which obtained information about union pension benefits during a joint investigation, said at least eight union officials in Chicago were eligible for what were described as inflated city pensions on top of union pensions for the same period of employment."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44872639/ns/us_news-life/

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 01:57 PM

That is an excellent song, Bob. Applause for the two of you and best wishes. Real good.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 01:19 PM

I think the reason that GfS and Ake keep attacking me is because I am not a defeatist. I'm not content to sit in the corner and whine.

I'm out and DOING!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 12:44 PM

Socialized/Privatized


Come, all you union members
And workers in your shop;
And all the laid-off folks who dread
The day the checks will stop;
Employers paying three folks,
Who used to employ ten;
We are the angry Ninety-nine,
Marching once again.

Refrain:

From Wall Street home to Main Street, shout loud the clear refrain:
"They've socialized the losses, and privatized the gains!" (2X)

The One-Percenters at the top,
With greed their only aim,
Have done their best to hide the way
They've played their selfish game.
So secretly they've tweaked the rules,
To keep us in the dark;
But now we're waking from our sleep,
And gathering in the park.


Refrain

When profits rise so high, you see,
And wages stay so low,
It's obvious the powers that be
Just don't want us to know.
As Joseph Stiglitz put it,
In words so clear and plain,
They socialize the losses,
But privatize the gain.


Last Refrain:

From Wall Street home to Main Street, shout loud the clear refrain:
"The people take the losses, the bosses take the gains!" (2X)



©2011 Annie Storr & Bob Clayton

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 12:35 PM

Bruce...right on!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 12:29 PM

Sorry guys...just got in from work.

Brucie Baby.....you always make sense!,but we are just looking at this issue fron two slightly different perspectives, I despise the financial institutions probably as much if not more than you do, but we differ in how we would seek "reform" them.

I understand what you have written and it makes excellent sense, but in practice it could lead to the same people in power just with a police state in place to enforce that power.

I dont suppose there are many here more to the left than I am politically, but socially I am very much a traditionalist, and I believe that the vast majority of ordinary folk are of the same mind.
Their aim in life is to have a family, a job, and a little freedom, they are not interested in a superindustrial workhouse.

Inspiration and unity, not politics are what is required to form a new type of society....."You Betcha!!"

I wont be so hard on GFS Bruce....If Don is going to make snide remarks about GfS "dipping in the toilet bowl", he must expect some of the shit to stick when GfS retaliates......I thought it was an excellent witty response...(the biter bit, as it were).

Thanks for your good wishes, and I will be writing to you to let you know how things are going.

Greetings Sanity!....Leave these old "libs" alone, you put their blood pressure off the clock. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 10:14 AM

"...There are those on here, who like to paint me as some sort of hostile creature..."

Geez, wonder why that might be!?!

Doesn't have anything to do with 8:40 PM or 12:22 PM.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 08:47 AM

That's my read, anyway. Does it make sense?

You Betcha!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 07:22 AM

Ake, you are correct in what you say. However, the boat you're missing on this one is that OWS is not politically driven (in terms of the movement). It's simply people saying, "I have had e-fuc#ing-nuff!"

Yes, it's starry-eyed idealism, and yes the OWS people are not united (except in being not united), but that may be its saving grace. The thing that broke the various movements back in the 1960s was that very cohesiveness people are asking for now.

I don't expect you to recall SNCC or NAACP or the then-rising Black Power movement, but what had been a fairly cohesive approach to 'getting the job done' was splintered by in-fighting and when ML King was murdered, the nail was driven into the coffin. Concomitantly, many people from the 'freedom' movement were also working to end the Vietnam War. They were the two foci of well-meaning people at that time.

The FBI was at wit's end trying to keep track of who's who in the world of what I will loosely call 'resistance'. The US government could denigrate the groups more easily because there were just two of them. I hope people learned from that. The OWS movement has a dozen concerns, each seemingly different yet each connected by one thing: MONEY and its abuse. Yes, the environment is in serious trouble. Yes, the economy is in the toilet. Yes, gay rights are not being addressed (hang on old friend, that's only one of the issues). Yes, poverty is rampant. Yes, the theft of billions has not been explained. Yes, there are separate laws for the rich and for the poor. Yes, wars around the globe are started for political reasons. Yes, there are multiple issues on the table. Yes, it's driving the Democrats, Republicans and Wall Street nutzo that no one will tell them "what they want."

My answer to the Republicans, Democrats and Wall Street is simple: You already know what we want. So don't bug us with small talk, something YOU want to engage us in so you can figure out how to attack us. We got nothing to say until such time as you get your head OUT of your collective ass and address what you know ARE the issues. You got the cops, you got the guns, but you ain't got us.

Basically, the response to Wall Street and their minions is get lost. We don't want to speak with you. You do NOT represent us, not now and no other time. Now, Wall Street speaking through Washington wants to establish rules for the fight. Really? We'll establish rules when the dust settles. Right now, it is not to OWS's benefit to establish rules. Rules will help only the monied class. We already know what their rules are.

That's my read, anyway. Does it make sense? I don't know. But I do know that the other way didn't. Fight by the other guy's rules and you lose. Something we all should remember: there are no rules in a street fight.

Keep well, Ake.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 03:38 AM

Well said, Ake.

Hey, how have you been doing?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 03:16 AM

Subsidising industry will NOT promote growth in the economy, it is simply a way of buying time.

Without growth, the system is fucked its as simple as that,

Please stop arguing about how to fix the system, your choices are extreme poverty, reduced standard of living, services cut, huge rates of unemployment etc, to re-set an economic system which has failed and will definately fail again in a few years.....or, accept economic an social hardship in an attempt to find something better,

The most important element is unity, the OWS movement is too divisive, too many ideas which alienate socially conservative people....the majority in your country and mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 02:36 AM

I'm trying....!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 02:32 AM

Boys, boys, boys.....

[be nice]

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 02:09 AM

No need to, you've insulted yourself quite adequately....I'm not playing this next round of petty bullshit with you. Stick to the topic.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 12:57 AM

Crude and unimaginative, GfS. Not only do you think with your spleen, you can't even come up with a clever insult.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 12:39 AM

Trying to keep you from drowning.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 12:29 AM

Much of the day I'm out at Westlake Park participating in the Occupy Seattle demonstrations, along with talking with local representatives.

What are YOU doing other than dipping epithets from your toilet, GfS?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 12:22 AM

Yeah, it begins with silly children who don't want to listen, because they're afraid they might have to THINK, and they don't want to do that, and respond with profound rebuttals, or constructive 'thoughts', say mature things like "PHOOEY"....run away to go suck their thumbs, Watch T.V., and are entertained while their nation turns to divided chaos.....even their own party!

Makes ya' wonder, whose payroll these guys on?


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 12:15 AM

Gentlemen, we see how easily agreements can go to shit, don't we.

Fuck!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 11:55 PM

Horseshit!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 11:06 PM

When someone starts a post with "Get it through your thick skulls..." I know that what follows is not going to be worth reading. Anyone with that attitude is nothing but a schoolyard bully and he's too concerned with his own ego to bother with facts and reason.

PHOOEY

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 10:12 PM

Agreed, Q....

We should be building plants here... I'm all for that... Use tax money to compete... The right calls that socialism... I call it competing to keep Americans employed... That's why we need to pass a job bill..

Sorry, dick, but lotta these folks ain't where you want them to be and may never be where you want them to be... Some will get there but it's a process... We're kinda back to Square One and need a new look...

OWS is in its infant stage... Like to see you attend your closest OWS "General Assembly" and put your 2 cents worth in...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 10:06 PM

Overall profit margins for the whole of industry are meaningless.

Tell it to industry.

Oh, and how about some figures that aren't 6 years old?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 09:58 PM

"Not to mention that India and China* are building entire plants...."
Now why didn't the Americans think of that?
*You forgot to add South Korea and Taiwan.

Overall profit margins for the whole of industry are meaningless.
Takes time to winkle them out, but a few figures-
2005 levels:
Internet companies- 21%; 1st Q 2011- 23.8%
Lumber companies - --; 18% 1st Q 2011
Major Banks- 16%; 1st Q 10.5% (money center banks)
Newspapers- 11%; 7% 2011 1st Q*
Multimedia- 9%
Oil and gas- 9% (1998- 7.4%); 1st Q 2011- 6.2% integrated majors, oil&gas expl. companies 10%)
Clothing- 5%
Auto- 3%
Groceries- 1.5%
* This places major integrated Oil & Gas companies at no 114 in the order of profitability. Size cannot be equated with profit margin.
-----------------
Closed end equity funds 2011 1st Q- 81% Yes, this sort of thing needs oversight and regulation. Closed end foreign- 38%

Of course the loonies who cannot read a balance sheet will continue to rant against corporations, without effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 09:55 PM

I think it's a shame that this much energy and enthusiasm still doesn't seem to be aimed at anything useful. A plan to organize and defeat congessmen (Repubs and Dems) who have filibustered the jopbs bill would be a meaningful step towards achieving the OWS avowed goals.
A successful grassroots movement should not support any political party---they should try to directly influence the members of any party that oppose their views.
To me, screaming at billionaires because they get government tax breaks is pointless; scream, instead, at the people who give them those breaks.Better yet, keep them from being elected. (note: observe Tea Party tactics)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 08:51 PM

If ya' gonna talk the talk then ya gotta walk the walk... That means no more rant/lectures of a mix of Lyndon LaRouche/Ron Paul/ Wallie Wacko...

Join your local OWS and find out it ain't all about you...

Talk is cheap...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 08:40 PM

Get it through your thick skulls...the 'globalists' are NOT looking out for America, or American interests...just themselves! They don't want, or need to give a shit about you or me!..nor this country, other than using its military to attain their goals......and if using it, against us, will further THEIR goals, they will!
They only need a reason to make it LOOKED 'justified', and make it LOOK like 'it's for your own good'!
That is what is the goal of the Tea party, in conjunction with OWS, in conjunction with the Democraps, in conjunction with the Republicunts, your 'news' media, and EVERY thing they can exploit, to make divisions, hostile to each other....so they can 'quell', by force, and set up their agenda, that you will be compelled to comply with.....WITHOUT representation!
This is not rocket science, folks.
'Globalists'...you know, like 'World Dominators'! You will give up your freedoms WILLINGLY, some already have, to buy into their crap...and some of you are promoting just that.....on their behalf, because you believed them!...and still do!
It is YOU who they fear!...That is why the lies and secrecy! Now, either way you turn, you are caged in!

Have a wonderful practice session.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 08:06 PM

Not to mention that India and China are building entire plants, turn key, and giving them to American corporations for free, land and all...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 08:05 PM

And also because they can cheerfully exploit workers in foreign, non-union environments and treat them even more like shit wythan they treat U.S. workers.

And tell your story (that it's all the fault of the Unions in the U.S.) walking.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 08:02 PM

Jobs have gone elsewhere because costs are lower and efficiency greater overseas

No.

Jobs have gone elsewhere because a decent profit and a fair return on investment are no longer sufficient for the greedy bastards who pine for the days of The Gilded Age and wish they were J.P. Morgan - now they must make an obscene profit, and damn the consequences.

And also because these 'job producing patriots' don't really give a fuck about the USA or US workers as long as they keep making gobs of money - by any means necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 07:20 PM

Hmmmmm???

I though this thread was about the Wall Street protesters???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 07:00 PM

If our political, ideological rocket scientists on here, would click on their names, and read posts, from TWO weeks ago, and on back....they would be finding they are arguing the other side of the same arguments that they are arguing now!

Now to the 'other' party...You like Mitt??..The Obama administration released, TODAY, that the 'model' for Obama Care, that was used to pattern Obama Care after...was modeled after Mitt's Massachusetts health care bill!

Big difference there, huh????

Joe Biden, was the architect of the Patriot Act, in the mid 1990's!!..BEFORE 911!!

When they FINALLY discover that Wall Street was a HUGE, excuse me, the BIGGEST, supporter of Obama's Presidency bid in '08..do you think your dim lights will grow brighter??

Then you squabble and bitch about what 'news' source I am 'deluding' myself with.....and throw 'party line talking points' at me, like I'm some sort of anti-human, right wing Bobert Basher and Donny Dowser,..only to find out, that I was telling you the TRUTH, all along..that the 'two parties' are really a masquerade, pandering to one side or the other, AT A TIME, all along!
You may even remember my analogy of the boxer in the ring, hitting you with a 'right' another 'right' a 'left' and a 'right' and a 'left' ..but behind it ALL, was the SAME boxer...out to knock you out! (or unconscious).
That analogy, used on here, was over THREE years ago, during the elections!!! (anybody home?).....

Now its Wall Street...and today announced that they are going into the area where the 'rich' guys pulling the financial/political strings live....guess who lives in that area?.....David Koch, George Soros, Murdoch,..and a host of others!....that Either/Both side THINKS are their 'heroes'......................

.............when all along...................................you heard it HERE, .................................first!

Weren't the earlier 'protest/folk' singers supposed to have some 'insight'?....and that made them 'hip'?....especially when they spoke out AGAINST the 'establishment'?

Guess what???................................except for a few on here....................................YOU are the establishment!

Happy Creative Moments........and Be Sane,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 06:43 PM

Jobs have gone elsewhere because costs are lower and efficiency greater overseas.

U. S. infrastructure has gone downhill, salaries too high, unions backward in thinking, education levels low, more progressive education and rise of competition in Asia and strengthening EU, lack of foresight and incentives on the part of government- you name it. The only entrepreneurship has been on the part of the communications industry, but developments outside the U.S. quickly caught up and forged ahead.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 06:28 PM

Like Paul Harvey used to say, "And now for the rest of the story...


http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2010/04/06/173215/exxon-zero-taxes/

Read 'um an' weep, Q-ball...lol...

B:~)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 06:23 PM

Statement by Bobert incorrect. Sales taxes, etc. in the statement of income and expenses.
Read the summary annual report for 2009, especially the financial summary p. 38.
Total sales and operating revenus in 2009 was 301.5 billion, with total costs and deductions 276 billion, which included sales taxes, product purchases*, manufacturing and sales expenses, and other taxes incurred (foreign, etc.).
This leaves approx. 35 billion income before income taxes.

*Much of supply purchased from governments and producing companies around the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 06:20 PM

1. Source, Please?

2. Please break it down to specifics - state taxes, federal taxes local taxes & etc. & include profit figures, not just gross sales.

3. What about the other several thousand major corporations?

The U.S. would be Slobovia without these generators of jobs...

Problem being that the jobs they create are IN Slobovia, not the U.S.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 05:54 PM

Those are not corporate tax figures ... Those are other tax figures... They include everything including the payroll taxes they pay their employees, the taxes they pay the state and localities for property owned... They are not based on the profits the corporation made... This is more corporate smoke and mirrors...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 05:40 PM

Above Exxonmobil data from 2009 Annual Report.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 05:38 PM

Exxonmobil 2009
Income - 35 billion
Income taxes - 15 billion
Net Income - 20 billion
(from which payments made to the many shareholders)

Total revenues - 311 billion
Total expenses - 276 billion
Earnings/common share - $3.98

2008
Income - 83 billion
Income taxes - 36.5 billion
2007
Income - 71.4 billion
Income taxes - 30 billion

Does not include sales taxes, etc.

I could do Microsoft and show a much larger percentage of profit-

The U.S. would be Slobovia without these generators of jobs and taxes.
The tax system needs reform, but claiming corporations pay no taxes is idiotic nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 05:30 PM

Not a true statement. Air travel does not in any way defy gravity...

You mean the THEORY of gravity, dontcha Beardie? Like the theory of evolution, the theory of global warming, etc?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 05:10 PM

That's right, Sawz... The chimp may have some real bad persoanl habits but his politics are right on...

Matt Miller is a loon, Q, with David Brooks not too far behind... What got the US to spending 17% of its GNP on health care in the first place was exactly what Miller now say is the solution... Kinda like leach therapy... Slashing corporate tax??? What's the difference if it's 35%, 3% of 10 million %... They won't pay any just like they don't pay any now... Matt Miller is a puppet without a real brain that thinks independent of what the Koch brothers stick in there every day... Not sure where David gets his looniness but I think he comes by it more honestly than Matt...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 04:58 PM

From The Times "passionate, but pointless"

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 04:52 PM

A good column in the NY Times today.
The Milquetoast Radicals
David Brooks, Oct. 10, 2011

Nothing but trivial sideshows over the past two years (E. g., The Occupy Wall Street). Extracts-

"A group that divides the world between the pure 99 percent and the evil one percent will have nothing to say about education reform, Medicare reform, tax reform, wage stagnation or polarization. They will have nothing to say about the way Americans have overconsumed and over borrowed. These are problems that implicate a much broader swath of society than the top 1 percent."
"..... since the left no longer believes in the nationalization of industry, these "radicals" really have no systematic reforms to fall back on."
The article goes on to castigate the small thinkers, including both Obama and the Republicans.

See Matt Miller, The Third Party Stump Speech We Need.
".... slash corporate taxes and raise energy taxes, aggressively use market forces and public provisions to bring down health care costs; raise capital requirements for banks; require national service; balance the budget by 2018."
Matt Miller, Washington Post, published September 25, 2011.
The results will be a "more competitive, sustainable and just America."
Miller makes a strong case against "the Democrats' timid half- measures and the Republicans' mindless anti-government creed."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-third-party-stump-speech-we-need/2011/09/22/gIQAj8wK_story.html
(or google title of story)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 04:02 PM

Thank you Don and Bobert.