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BS: Wall Street Protesters...

Related threads:
Occupy Wall Street Songs (33)
a song for Wall Street (6)
BS: The Meaning of OWS (Occupy Wall Street) (31)
PETE (Seeger at Occupy Wall Street) (21)
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Bobert 26 Oct 11 - 08:40 PM
Bobert 26 Oct 11 - 08:33 PM
Don Firth 26 Oct 11 - 08:31 PM
Don Firth 26 Oct 11 - 08:28 PM
Lox 26 Oct 11 - 08:27 PM
Bobert 26 Oct 11 - 07:55 PM
Lox 26 Oct 11 - 07:47 PM
Lox 26 Oct 11 - 07:43 PM
bobad 26 Oct 11 - 06:48 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Oct 11 - 06:34 PM
Don Firth 26 Oct 11 - 06:30 PM
Bobert 26 Oct 11 - 06:17 PM
Lox 26 Oct 11 - 06:04 PM
Lox 26 Oct 11 - 05:48 PM
Lox 26 Oct 11 - 05:33 PM
Don Firth 26 Oct 11 - 04:32 PM
dick greenhaus 26 Oct 11 - 04:20 PM
Bobert 26 Oct 11 - 04:07 PM
GUEST,999 26 Oct 11 - 04:04 PM
Lox 26 Oct 11 - 04:01 PM
Stringsinger 26 Oct 11 - 03:24 PM
Don Firth 26 Oct 11 - 01:48 PM
GUEST,John from Kemsing 26 Oct 11 - 12:26 PM
Greg F. 26 Oct 11 - 11:59 AM
GUEST,999 26 Oct 11 - 11:19 AM
Bobert 26 Oct 11 - 09:11 AM
GUEST,TIA 26 Oct 11 - 07:51 AM
Wesley S 26 Oct 11 - 07:30 AM
Lox 26 Oct 11 - 05:36 AM
Don Firth 26 Oct 11 - 12:46 AM
Songwronger 26 Oct 11 - 12:26 AM
GUEST,TIA 25 Oct 11 - 11:31 PM
GUEST,TIA 25 Oct 11 - 11:22 PM
GUEST,TIA 25 Oct 11 - 11:19 PM
GUEST,999 25 Oct 11 - 10:44 PM
Suffet 25 Oct 11 - 10:26 PM
Lox 25 Oct 11 - 10:05 PM
Don Firth 25 Oct 11 - 09:49 PM
Bobert 25 Oct 11 - 09:36 PM
GUEST,999 25 Oct 11 - 09:24 PM
GUEST,999 25 Oct 11 - 09:22 PM
Don Firth 25 Oct 11 - 09:21 PM
Songwronger 25 Oct 11 - 09:15 PM
Don Firth 25 Oct 11 - 09:11 PM
Bobert 25 Oct 11 - 08:36 PM
Lox 25 Oct 11 - 08:32 PM
Bobert 25 Oct 11 - 07:17 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 25 Oct 11 - 06:15 PM
Bobert 25 Oct 11 - 04:41 PM
Don Firth 25 Oct 11 - 04:25 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 08:40 PM

Thanks for the link, Lox... I am afraid that this is going to get repeated... I hate it... Bad image... With all the tear gas and all it leave the impression that OWS is in riot mode when they are absolutely not... What we are seeing is Boss Hog, like Mubarak's pigs riding thru non-violent people, beating them to create another scene for their right wing supporters...

Watch for more mid-night raids becasue the smoke makes it look like there is resistance...

I hope I am wrong...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 08:33 PM

Reality is that Soros could have used his vast wealth to buy elections like the Koch brothers did... He didn't... Ain't his bag... Ain't what or who he is...

Yeah, he's part of the 1% but has put himself out as the rebel within the 1% for suggesting that the 1% be taxed at the levels of his secretary... Horrors!!!

Now back to OWS... Seems that some local governments want to bust some balls...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 08:31 PM

Amd tp reiterate, my mentioning Soros at all was only in response to Songwronger's vicious slander of him.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 08:28 PM

Fair enough, Lox and Bobert. But let me be clear here. I have no misconceptions about what a struggle for democracy both seeks and entails.

Soros has stated that he understands, agrees with, and approves of OWS. As far as I know (and contrary to claims of hysterical Right-Wingers), Soros has not tried to lead or fund OWS, and other than verbal support, he's staying clear. Wisely, knowing that to do otherwise would only give ammunition to the Right and lower OWS to the level of the Tea Party.

He HAS, on the other hand, leaned on his fellow Fat Cats to follow his example of philanthropic giving--in the manner of Carnegie, and more recently, Gates, Turner, and a few others.

Sure, he's one of the 1%, but I have a hard time characterizing him as "The Enemy."

As long as he just stays out of the way.

Okay?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 08:27 PM

Sideshow?

Then why this?

violence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 07:55 PM

Yo, Don and Lox...

Chill... Ya'll are each on the correct side of the truth... Leave it alone...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 07:47 PM

"Don - I don't have a problem with you either."

To clarify - my posts do not attack Soros character - or you - they explain your misconception about what a struggle for democracy both seeks and entails.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 07:43 PM

The violence shown against them by the government shows that they are no side show.

The very nature of the OWS message is right at the heart of current politics.

Thats not a sideshow.


Don - I don't have a problem with you either.

Soros point of view would be of no significance to you and me if he wasn't a billionaire.

He wouldn't be any more of a useful ally than you or anyone else on here if he were not a billionaire.

So he is only useful to this conversation insofar as he has power and influence way way above and beyond the power and influence of the average citizen.

The position of OWS is that no private individual should have greater or lesser political power than any other whether they are a billionaire or homeless.

Rallying behind the billionaire to unseat the corporatocracy is therefore a contradiction.

If he wants to come and rally down on the street, let him come and be welcome - but using his financial clout to affect a favourable political outcome is doing exactly the thing that OWS is against.

If he then listens to the demands, and cleans up the act of the many business interests he has, and ensures all his employees are paid a fair wage, and that they receive proper health care, and if he then agrees to pay himself a wage that is comparable to that of his employees, (rather than 'selflessly' only paying himself billions until his death - at which point he will gladly sacrifice his wealth) then he can claim to be with us.

But you know what, I don't see that happening any time soon - I don't think he'd want to let go of his privilege.

He is the beneficiary of a corrupt system and he continues to be complicit in it even though it is plain that for every billionaire made, a million people fall into slavery.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: bobad
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 06:48 PM

The governor of the Bank of Canada doesn't think they are a sideshow - he says that they are 'entirely constructive'

Globe & Mail article


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 06:34 PM

The Wall Street protesters are a sideshow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 06:30 PM

Okay, Lox, you've got me buffaloed. I've looked through both our recent posts on this thread. Songwronger comes on with totally libelous material about George Soros. You jump his case. I do likewise, and after a bit of research, blow SW's slanders out of the water. Then YOU get on MY case for defending George Soros.

And you say that I don't get it. You're right. I DON'T get it.

Please explain.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 06:17 PM

George Soros is a side show that has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion...

He is the right wing's boogie man that they parade out every time they want to change the conversation yet again...

Ignore their tactics... We've seen them all before...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 06:04 PM

.

Another useful article from Monbiot.

Money ...

.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 05:48 PM

Don

recapitalizing the banks is not and never was the solution.

M0, M1, M2 etc


.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 05:33 PM

"You're condemning Soros solely on the basis that he is wealthy"

You keep repeating this even though I keep repeating that i am not condemning him.

Thats fine - ok - but don't delude yourself that you have responded to my point. You are engaged in a parallel debate that has nothing to do with me.

You'll find my view in the posts I've made.

If you want to respond to it, try to understand it first and if you have criticisms, try to make them of my view rather than of your inferences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 04:32 PM

"Soros saying he is on the side of the 99% is as absurd as a poor teaparty supporter saying he is on the same team as the koch brothers."

WHY is that absurd?

You're going to have to explain that. You're condemning Soros solely on the basis that he is wealthy, without taking anything else into consideration.

Some background on Soros:
Soros, 81, is No. 7 on the Forbes 400 list with a fortune of US$22-billion, which has ballooned in recent years as he deftly responded to financial market turmoil. He has pledged to give away all his wealth, half of it while he earns it and the rest when he dies.

Like the protesters, Soros is no fan of the 2008 bank bailouts and subsequent government purchase of the toxic sub-prime mortgage assets they amassed in the property bubble.

The protesters say the Wall Street bank bailouts in 2008 left banks enjoying huge profits while average Americans suffered under high unemployment and job insecurity with little help from Washington. They contend that the richest 1% of Americans have amassed vast fortunes while being taxed at a lower rate than most people.

Soros in 2009 wrote in an editorial that the purchase of toxic bank assets would, "provide artificial life support for the banks at considerable expense to the taxpayer."

He urged the Obama administration to take bolder action, either by recapitalizing or nationalizing the banks and forcing them to lend at attractive rates. His advice went unheeded.

The Hungarian-American was an early supporter of the 2008 election campaign of Barack Obama, who will seek a second term as president in the November, 2012, election. Soros has long backed liberal causes among which are the Open Society Institute, the foreign policy think tank Council on Foreign Relations, and Human Rights Watch.
Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 04:20 PM

"Soros saying he is on the side of the 99% is as absurd as a poor teaparty supporter saying he is on the same team as the koch brothers."

Functionally, he is. It's the tea party supporters that are pushing the Republican Party into positions that benefit the Kochs mightily, to the detriment of the other 99%.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 04:07 PM

Yeah, I never get why the cops feel like they have to go thru the usual militaristic thing of dressing up like gladiators to arrest non-violent people who aren't going to go to war with them??? This alone should be part of what OWS is demanding... We don't need cops looking like robo-man... They are people, too, and it degrades them as people...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 04:04 PM

Strings,

As you said, OWS is not going away. The pressure to 'tell us what you want' has increased since the movement started. That is disingenuous crap. The folks asking know the answer damned well. I would counter any such question with 'instead, why don't YOU tell us why YOU think we're here'. Make them say it.

As the movement grows, it will encompass more and more people from all strata in society, from all colours of the spectrum, from all religions, from all languages, from all backgrounds and from all countries in the world where peaceful protest is allowed--a statement that carries serious overtones in itself. The human telephone is working. It is 'freeing' in a sense not to need mainstream media to give us the news. I want to hear what's going on from the Boberts, Mays, TIAs, Stringsingers--NOT Fox, MSN, NYT, etc. These people I trust. I have zero trust for the media on TV or radio. Too much spin, ya know?


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 04:01 PM

"That's prejudicial thinking."

No it isn't - you are not responding to my point, your response is to a point that I have not made but that you have inferred.


"I'm not about to condemn someone just because they have a lot of money"

Neither am I - again - you have inferred a point that I have not made.

Soros saying he is on the side of the 99% is as absurd as a poor teaparty supporter saying he is on the same team as the koch brothers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 03:24 PM

It is important that OWS does not try to become a single issue movement. There are many different issues that OWS embraces and they all are contingent on one another.

America is now under siege and is headed toward an American Spring standing in solidarity with the oppressed people of Egypt, Syria, Bahrain and other countries.

Atlanta police have displayed riot squad police on horseback and 53 arrests have been made.

This Occupy Atlanta is a peaceful protest with the occupiers feeding and caring for the poor in Atlanta who have been pushed to the dark corners and are now abandoned. Mayor Kasim Reed has been disingenuous in his negotiations with the Occupiers using a kind of deception and violating his promise to allow the protesters to remain in Troy Davis Park (aka Woodruff Park) until November 7th. He has attempted to use local clergy as a dodge when they were unable to agree on how to meet. It wouldn't have mattered anyhow because the Mayor's mind was made up. This is the typical show of force that is being employed everywhere from Oakland to New York. Their statement is "We are the authorities and you people are nothing."

Free speech has been compromised in America and only given to those corporations that can pay for it.

This movement is not going away, it's just getting started.

If you don't know what OWS is about, you haven't been paying attention.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 01:48 PM

No, Lox, I'm not missing the point at all.

"As nice or as mean as he might be, he cannot be on 'our side' - his existence as an example of the divide between the super rich and ordinary people is a matter of concern."

I don't accept that. That's prejudicial thinking.

I've lived long enough to see peoples' viewpoints and values change as their circumstances change and they grow older, and sometimes, wiser. As, indeed, mine have changed and grown in the light of new knowledge and new insights. There are numerous stories of wealthy people who were hard-charging and often quite unethical when they are young, but as they grew older, their ideas—and there moral principles—altered.

History is full of examples. Without writing a whole treatise on the subject, look at the life of Andrew Carnegie, founder of U. S. Steel. Early on, he was as much a "robber baron" as many during his era—but in later life he turned his attention to philanthropy. In fact, he wrote books on the subject and urged his wealthy compatriots to turn their vast wealth into "doing real and permanent good in the world." Among his many philanthropic acts, he started a nationwide public library system. He also said, "He who dies rich dies in disgrace." In short, "Now that you have it, do some good with it."

This didn't end with Carnegie. Take a look at THIS.

I'm not about to condemn someone just because they have a lot of money. What are they DOING with that money is the important question.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 12:26 PM

Who makes millionaires millionaires?. Perhaps we should ask them to stop it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 11:59 AM

Well, that should garner support from the Tea Party then.

Nah, to get the Tea Potty endorsement, they'd actually have to SHOOT some miserable revolutionary socialist liberal godless commie like Gabrielle Giffords.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 11:19 AM

"The mayor was quoted as saying that an AK-47 was spoted in the crowd earlier in the day."

Well, that should garner support from the Tea Party then. Wasn't it they who carried firearms at some of their 1% rallies a while back?


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 09:11 AM

Yeah, I find it interesting that so many of the OWS opponents haven't actually been to any of them???

No drummer's elbow, TIA, but "drummer's back"??? Different story... Don't think I'll be drumming this coming Saturday...

B;~(


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 07:51 AM

Yeas Songwronger, Harrisburg is going under financially. Are you "focussed" enought to know why, or just being snarky? Find out why, and you will see more of what OWS is about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 07:30 AM

Occupy Atlanta was broken up last night by the police. The arrests were peaceful. The mayor was quoted as saying that an AK-47 was spoted in the crowd earlier in the day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 05:36 AM

"And who said anything about Soros being a "dictator" to anything, ESPECIALLY OWS?"

Don,

You are totally missing the point.


We live in a corporatocracy - i.e. a system where billionaires and corporations have more political clout than ordinary people because they can buy it.

OWS thinks we should be living in a democracy - i.e. a system where all people have equal political clout, regardless of whether they have money or not.

Soros, may be a saint, but that does not change the fact that he has wildly disproportionate political influence.

It is the imbalance in political enfranchisement and in wealth that is under scrutiny, not whether Soros is a nice guy.

As nice or as mean as he might be, he cannot be on 'our side' - his existence as an example of the divide between the super rich and ordinary people is a matter of concern.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 12:46 AM

With all due respect, Lox, I believe you are reading more into what I wrote than I intended.

My beef was with the totally wrong and basically slanderous ideas that Songwronger was trying to peddle about both Soros and his supposed control of OWS. I never said that Soros could heal the sick, raise the dead, and walk on water. What SW said was sheer Right Wing propaganda. Soros is in hot water with the Right Wing because Soros—like Warren Buffet—reacted positively to OWS, rather than condemning it outright like the rest of those in that lofty wealth bracket.

"There are no billionaires on our team." Why, then, have Soros and Buffet made favorable comments about OWS? I don't know that they haven't offered financial support, but it they haven't, it is more than likely that they are aware that this, per se, would cast a cloud over the "grass roots" aspect of OWS and subject it to the same kind of criticism that has been levied at the Tea Party because of the involvement of the Koch Brothers. The Right Wing would leap on something like that with glee. In fact, they have already been making unsubstantiated claims along that line.

And who said anything about Soros being a "dictator" to anything, ESPECIALLY OWS?

Before ripping into Soros and ALL other wealthy people with unsubstantiated charges based on pigeon-hole type assumptions about the wealthy, you might want to read up a bit on people like Soros and Buffet from unbiased sources.

Among other things, you might want to find out why Fox News hates Soros so much.

Don Firth

P. S. To Songwronger.

" FDR had the answer, largely, but then the modern presidents began tearing down what he put in place."

Yes, FDR did have the answer. But the presidents who began tearing down what FDR put in place was,first, Ronald Reagan. And then, every REPUBLICAN president since then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 12:26 AM

Focus. That's good. You'd better get focused, Tia, because your capital city just filed for bankruptcy.

I'm glad to see that most OWS people are aware of the fake left/right stuff. The battle has ALWAYS been between the 1% and the 99%, not 50% vs 50%. They won't be able to pit us against one another much longer.

FDR had the answer, largely, but then the modern presidents began tearing down what he put in place.

Let's see...my most interesting discussion today was with a stockboy who told me all about Al Gore's energy-guzzling house in Tennessee. I would have argued with him, but I couldn't. I handed out some printouts about local votes coming up, and some printouts about the recent Saudi diplomat charade (the Obama administration is trying to build it up into a war with Iran, but no one's buying it)...the usual stuff. Handed out a pocket constitution, a couple of bumper stickers (Support the Troops, Bring them Home NOW). Typical day. Political activism is a way of life around here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 11:31 PM

Bobert-
You got drumming elbow yet?
Keep it up, but keep it healthy.
TIA


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 11:22 PM

Getting there and back, I talked to a flight attendant, a taxi driver, a policewoman, A Dunkin donuts server a civil engineer and a college kid who all understood the focus. Seems like it might be your problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 11:19 PM

Songwronger-
What is your personal knowledge of OWS? Have you been out here talking to any of us? (I spent the day in Pittsburgh in the shadow of the US Steel Tower).
No, of course you have not. Your characterization is straight out of the Lamestream Faux News Right Wing False Outrage Echo Chamber.
Come talk to us when you have your own knowledge and opinions.
Buh-Bye.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 10:44 PM

Hear, hear, Steve! BINGO.

Lox, damned good post.



"We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately." B Franklin


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Suffet
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 10:26 PM

The media first said that Occupy Wall Street was violent, but that didn't fly. So they said it was unsanitary, but that also proved to be a lie. Then they said it was rife with anti-Semitism and focused on an obvious plant plus a couple of LaRouche followers to prove their point, but that went nowhere. Next they claimed it was just a bunch of spoiled trust fund kids acting in concert with some union goons, but that was simply laughable. Now they are so desperate they are saying that OWS is too noisy and that drum circles will spell its doom. And at the same time they are saying that it's being controlled behind the scenes by (1) Barack Obama, (2) George Soros, (3) the Muslim Brotherhood, or (4) the teachers unions. Take your pick or add your own.

To which I respond: Bull-fuckin'-shit! Even if the OWS encampment were to end this instant, there is no going back. The movement that it has inspired is here too stay. Get used to it!

--- Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 10:05 PM

Don,

You describe Soros in a way that is comparable to a benevolent dictator.

OWS has no beef with the individual, but is without any shadow of a doubt 100% opposed to the existence of any kind of dictatorship.

The very fact of his complicity in the current status quo, whether he is a benevolent or malign influence, makes him part of the 1%.

He isn't on our side until he limits his own salary, ensures all his employees have a fair wage, health insurance etc, and until he works to ensure that his profits are made without unnecessary damage to the environment, war etc.

There are no billionaires on our team - this is a permanent struggle between the interests of billionaires and the interests of the rest of us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:49 PM

Constitutional Democracy. Even the Greeks were aware that pure democracy can quickly become tyrannical. A very good example of PURE democracy is a lynch mob. Hence, the Constitution, which not only limits the power of government, but protects the individual from the tyranny of the mob.

I have recommended this book a number of times:   First Democracy: The Challenge of an Ancient Idea, by Paul Woodruff. Despite its flaws (which many Greeks were aware of at the time), Greek democracy worked quite well; in many ways, better than ours. The final chapter in Woodruff's book bears the title, "Is America Ready for Democracy?"

You see, Songwronger, I stayed awake in my high school civics classes and kept observing and learning since then. Yes, I know what Democracy should be, and how and WHY it so frequently falls short.

As far as focus is concerned, OWS is way ahead of you.

Don Firth

P. S. Over and out. Got a busy evening ahead of me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:36 PM

Don-thinking is good, brucie...

Songwronger, like his or her handle suggests, is bad...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:24 PM

I'm starting to think like Don. Not a bad thing, but scary. lol

Cross-posted with you, buddy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:22 PM

At this point the only people saying OWS has to focus are those who are NOT with OWS. We got no problem with the so-called lack of focus. Why do people who--if they wanted to help would--keep saying 'focus'? We're focused already, although maybe not on the things YOU find of import.

Your fairly prescriptive 3-4 items leaves out one helluva lotta stuff that has to be corrected/rectified/recompensed. imo


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:21 PM

YOU are the one flogging that particular horse, Songwronger.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:15 PM

Such a mishmash of idologies and terminologies.

Does anyone here know what a democracy is? America has a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Democracy is rule by 51%. And consensus is defined as "Agreement in the judgment or opinion reached by a group as a whole."

See, that's how you know that OWS is intended to fail. Everyone involved with the program talks about reaching "consensus," but they can't even agree on what they're protesting. It has something to do with Wall Street, because that's in the name, but then there's the environment and a hundred other issues. No "consensus" will ever be reached on anything. And it's meant to be that way. The intention of the organizers is to bleed off the political fervor of the protestors so that they are no longer a menace. That "consensus" talk on day one was the first red flag for me.

OWS needs to focus on 3-4 items and distribute those nationwide. Tax financial transactions, reinstate Glass-Steagall, maybe nationalize the Federal Reserve. And trials. Lots of trials.

Soros. He's part of the 1% and his crimes are many. Why flog that horse?


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:11 PM

Lox, Soros is, by no means, pure and lily-white. He came by his fortune by the usual Wall Street-style wheeling and dealing, and was once charged with insider trading, but he, like a number of billionaires—a small number, but there, nevertheless—is among those who are trying to redeem themselves by using their great wealth to do some good in the world.

Two who occur to me off the top of my head (and a litte digging will turn up a number of others) are Bill Gates, who has given away something like $32 billion dollars so far, through the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and Ted Turner, who has given away a third of his fortune so far. When criticized by his fellow billionaires for his philanthropy (e.g., setting a good example for other billionaires), Turner responded, "For #$%&!@#!, who NEEDS that much money!??"

I was responding to Songwronger's hysterical slanders about Soros' alleged activities aiding Hitler in sending his fellow Jews to the slave labor camps and gas chambers. A little simple arithmetic would have shown him how ridiculous that charge is. Wotthehell!! Soros was barely into his teens at the time! Whoever Songwronger got that from is little more than a wad of hate and lies.

Let's take an occasional bow toward the Real World and give some credit where credit is due!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 08:36 PM

I don't really give a rat's ass about George Soros... The thing is that he has become this symbol of the right that no matter what they do that is downright mean and stupid that they can't possibly as bad as Soros... I'd just like to see the right wing stand up on their policies without having to use made-up boogiemen on the left...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 08:32 PM

I do not trust Soros.

It is true that he has speculated against the pound and also that he was locked in a speculation battle with the sultan of brunei who used his own fortune to prevent soros from damaging the economies of the asia pacific region for personal gain.

I remember reading about it at the time.

But this is a big red herring - OWS doesn't need Soros and I'm surprised anyone feels the need to stick up for him.

He is the 1% and is happy for the status quo to remain as it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 07:17 PM

Oh geeze... More polls... I've heard 3 (mow 4) different ones... One poll that was on NBC last night had approval of OWS in th4e high 50s...

Polls smolls...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 06:15 PM

Protestors were cleared from a park adjoining City Hall in Oakland, CA.

The Huffington Post reports an Associated Press story that 37% of Americans support the protesters, but a Gallup poll indicates the majority of Americans don't know what the protests are about.

The guy talking in the video on the Atlanta link is as loopy in one direction as Michelle Bachman is in the other.

By New Years Day, I think the foofaraw will be over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 04:41 PM

Yeah, George Soros supports pro-human causes while the Koch brothers buy political power that allows them to poison our water and pollute our air...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 04:25 PM

George Soros, born in 1930, was less than ten years old when Hitler started invading other countries. He was fifteen when WWII came to an end. He was born in Budapest, Hungary into a Jewish family. He emigrated to England in 1947—at the age of seventeen.

Tell me once again, Songwronger, about how he was Hitler's right-hand man in engineering the Holocaust.

Indeed, in his early teens, he had a job as a gofer for the "Jewish Council." He was to deliver slips of paper to various Jews in the city, telling them to report to a particular location at 9:00 a.m. He showed the slips to his father, who recognized them, and told young Gyorgy to tell the people he delivered the slips to that if they DID report to the appointed place at the appointed time, they would be "deported." And that they had best make themselves very scarce!!

I had a friend (gone now) who was a Hungarian Jew. He told me that when he was eight years old, his family had received such a warning, and escaped that night and made their way circuitously to the United States. He had friends whose families were rounded up and sent to the gas chambers.

Bulletin, Songwronger! George Soros WAS, and IS, one of the GOOD GUYS!

Learn to live with it!

Don Firth


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