BS: Smart meters (power companies)

Subject: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: gnu
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 12:54 PM

Video here.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 01:05 PM

A buddy of mine had the power company where he is in the US install a power meter without informing him. It interfered with his computers--which he uses for a licensed legal business. He phoned the pc and said they had two hours to remove it or he'd smack it with a hammer. They replaced it with his old (or similar) meter and that was that.

Some folks will stand for anything--and eventually they stand for everything or nothing. God Bless America.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 01:44 PM

Help! The paranoids are after me!

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 02:00 PM

Here in California, the power company (PG&E) has been rolling these things out despite massive protests. My neighbors on both sides haave had one installed; we've been spared so far, perhaps because we have a DO NOT INSTALL SMART METER sticker on our meter.

BTW, it's not just paranoia. I'm not one of them, but I know that some folks are quite sensitive to electromagnetic radiation, to the point of serious health effects.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 02:55 PM

I just received a letter saying that 'a new meter would be installed' sometime in the next few months. Now, I can't get that video to play, so I don't see exactly why I'm supposed to be worried.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: gnu
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 03:04 PM

Bill D... the vid says... the power is monitored such that the power company and anyone else (IRS, police, CIA in your case, etc) can tell if you are running a server which would be a business, growin doep, when you rae home, when you are on vacation.... blah, blah, blah... also anyone who can intercept the info upload... ie, criminals.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 03:10 PM

I see..it's partly stories of 'health concerns' like fluoride in the drinking water, and partly concerns about 'intrusive technology' re: Big Brother, etc.

How am I supposed to *know* ahead of time whether a smart meter will be fair, hurt me, do nasty stuff to my home wiring or cause my cat to become epileptic? How much trouble will it be for me to 'stop them'? And who is sure who is right? I can't opt out of HAVING a meter.

I HATE dilemmas like this!

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 03:13 PM

well, I am not DOING anything illegal and so far as I know, my power usage is well inside the norms.

Health? Signals waking me up? I doubt it...

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: gnu
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 03:29 PM

It says you can tell them not to install one. Buddy doing the talking says you can send them his form letter and then they can't say you gave consent by NOT telling them to not install one when they send you a leter saying they are gonna install one.

Bottom line for me is the loss of meter reader jobs... and grocery store checkout jobs, and... computers feed the fat cats, not people.

Heck, I can run an engineering business with only two employees... me and the the keyboard I am typing this post on. Why do I need a draughtsman when I have AutoCadd or a tech when I have Cadkey? (ACad can do what Cadkey can but Cadkey is FAR easier and faster to use. Even the version I bought 15 years ago.)

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 03:32 PM

Variety of info here.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 04:23 PM

Good grief, what a mix of 'information', rumors, dire predictions, reassurances and technical gobbledegook. I love how these meters "... will **hopefully** help residents better track and manage their electricity usage.." and "...**eventually** be able to track energy usage in real time."   Not right away, you understand...but maybe someday. In the meantime, the companies will be able to get a rate increase to cover the cost of those maybes...

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: gnu
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 04:52 PM

Our water rates went up when remote read water meters were installed to save water. Our system went "user based". Of course, when there is low water the radio and TV and newspaper are used to tell people about when they can use water and how... for FREE. And, people tend to say, "I don't give a shit. I am paying for it."

Now, here's the REAL kicker... we get billed quarterly. These meters can tell if you have a leak but the systen isn't set up to let you know if you have a leak. You don't know if you have a leak until SIX months later when you get a BIG water bill.

Bottom line... the contractor who installed the water meters BOTH times (the first batch weren't "good enough") is linked to the mayor who said water meters are great and your water bills will decrease. Decrease? Spend more money for less revenue? What a f***in guy eh?

Oh, btw, my phone rings a half ring when the water meter is read in the middle of the night.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 05:07 PM

Much larger threat from electromagnetic radiation, susceptability to hacking, being overheard by "The Man" and all the dire consequences cited on the "EMF Safety Network" site, above, from your freakin' CELL PHONE or WIRELESS ROUTER.

Better save yourselves & dump 'em toot sweet!!

Jaysus, don't people have anything of significance to worry about ???

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 05:09 PM

WAIT A MINUTE!! Them damn Smart Meters is probably part of the same Communist Bolshevik Conspiracy as puttin that FLOURIDE in our DRINKIN WATER !!!

Spread the word! We're Under Attack!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 05:15 PM

I love how even mentioning the mere possibility of anything like this brings out all the smug people who can decide it's total bullshit/fantasay/etc within the mere flick of a synapse...in an instant....they already KNOW there can't be anything to it! Just like there can't be extraterrestrials or telepathy or reincarnation or a soul or indeed ANYTHING they haven't already decided is real. ;-) Why do they already KNOW all that with such certainty? Well, because they already know everything. Just ask 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: gnu
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 05:26 PM

Ask any neurosurgeon of note about cell phones. The WHO has recently issued a "warning" that there may be a link. After my slice and dice for a tumour and my cousin's "big as an orange" tumour and the top guy (a relative) at NYU school of medicine who consulted on my cousin's tumour saying there is a link, I gave up all but emergency use of cell phones.

There are still people laying on beaches in direct sunlight with few clothes on! Talkin on cell phones too.

As far as the meters issuing electromagnectic radiation, I'd say yer toaster is far more dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 06:01 PM

They'll be OK, Gnu, as long as they don't hold those electric watt-meters up to their ears for extended periods.

they already KNOW there can't be anything to it!...Just ask 'em.

Not as annoying by half as those folks who are certain that the end of civilization as we know it is inherent in each and every thing that comes down the pike, and support said opinion with mountains and oceans of bullshit.

But you may be right, LH - its the EXTRATERRESTRIALS who are foisting these meters on an unsuspecting public. WAIT! maybe its its reincarnated telepathic extraterrestrials!!!

Be afraid! Be very afraid.....

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: gnu
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 06:14 PM

Greg.. don't get me wrong. I am all FOR naked peeps on the beach. Well... some. Unfortunately, those young girls consider me an old pervert when I stare and smile, fondlingly remebering my youth.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 06:52 PM

I'm just saying, Greg, that you don't know one way or the other about the accuracy of what that guy in the video is saying.

I never even heard about what he's talking about before (regarding the possible surveillance capabilities of Smart meters). Therefore, it's a brand new subject as far as I'm concerned, and what he says is quite interesting. He may be partly right. He may be partly wrong. He may be entirely right or entirely wrong...but I have absolutely NO way at this time of being certain about that and I am certainly not going to make my mind up about it in 5 minutes flat (as so many of you do) and use the opportunity to poke fun at and ridicule his video, just because it was his idea and not mine.

To do so would be the height of arrogance. It would indicate that I operate on pure faith (meaning I figure I already KNOW), and have not a shred of willingness to consider any new idea in a fair and balanced way...unless it comes from a source that I've already decided to trust merely on the basis of...pure unquestioning faith.

Like a religious fanatic. Such fanatics are not found just under the banner of religion, they are found among the devotedly nonreligious as well and in every conventional mindset known to man. They are people who think they already HAVE all the answers, and if it wasn't their idea then they are simply against it upon the instant...no further investigation required. And they feel free, therefore, to ridicule it. That's arrogance.

We do live in a society that is constantly increasing its surveillance of the ordinary public through a great variety of means, such as: the ubiquitous surveillance cameras that are now placed throughout cities in the UK (and some other places), keeping track of what you buy and where you were through your use of credit cards, bank cards, and other electronic purchasing, keeping track of what websites you visit on the Internet....so why not use Smart meters for surveillance too? Why wouldn't that be possible? And if it is possible, then the temptation is there to use it.

Is this good for you and me? I don't think so. Mind you, it's not something I worry about much, because I figure I'm not important enough that the powers that be are going to come after me.....I'm protected by the fact that I'm no threat to them.

As a general principle in society, though, I think it is somewhat worrisome, and I'd like to know a bit more about it.

Having just seen one video which alludes to the alleged problem, I'm now somewhat interested in the subject, and I may look into it further if I have the time and the inclination.

*****

And cellphones?

I have little doubt by now that cellphones have damaged the health of a lot of people, and caused quite a few deaths (by causing the growth of cancer) but that's another whole discussion. And it doesn't matter a jot if some people ridicule the very notion. They obviously just got hit in the eye by their own knee jerking back in its standard conventional reflex action whenever it encounters something they didn't feel inclined to think about in the first place and they don't want to be bothered thinking about....because it might inconvenience them.

Ask me if I care? I don't. They are welcome to use their own cellphones all they want as far as I'm concerned, and bathe their own head in close range high frequency radio emissions for hours a day if it pleases them, because that's entirely up to them. Their choice. Their life. Not mine.

We all die anyway. And that's fine with me. It's the only way to get out of this place, after all... ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 08:36 PM

I'm just saying, Greg, that you don't know one way or the other about the accuracy of what that guy in the video is saying.

You may not, LH, but I moat assuredly do.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 09:36 PM

SJ Power installed one on our house (without informing me) over 2 years ago. Doesn't concern me a bit. What does concern me is a black Suburban that seems to be following everywhere I go. And then that Russian looking guy, I see sitting at a table every time I go to Tim Horton's. He must be Russian, or maybe he's Belarusian, he has short cropped hair on top of a big head, and a mole or something on his forehead. Now that I think of it, I've passed him a couple of times going inot the SJ Power building when I went to pay my bill.

Hmmmmmm .... thanks for posting that vid Gnu.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 10:13 PM

I'll just jump down to the bottom and say that all of the fuss is a waste of time and energy. I've had a smart meter for about a year and my bill is a lot lower than it used to be. I can log on to look at my usage in 15-minute increments, and by running things that use more power at night when the demand is low I save money. My electric bills during the heat of the hottest summer in Texas history in a 2,500 sf house were never over $125. I think the meter had a lot to do with it.

The tests have been run, side by side comparisons. The alarm is artificial, get used to it - your meter can be your friend.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 02:35 AM

How so, Greg? Explain how you know for sure about the accuracy of what he is saying. I had the impression you just made an instantaneous judgement that he is a paranoid loony and left it at that. Maybe that isn't the case. If so, I'd be interested to know what you have to say about it...in detail.

I've been reading books about the harmful effects of EMF for a few years now, and I know health professionals who regard those effects as significant, so it's something I give a certain amount of attention to. I'm not in a state of fear about it. I'm not hiding under my bed and shaking or anything dramatic like that... ;-) But I have avoided the used of wireless devices in my home. Why would I want them anyway? I'm doing perfectly all right with old style wired devices, and I don't feel deprived in the least by not having a wireless computer, a wireless portable phone, a wireless mouse, a cellphone or anything else like that. I don't cook with a microwave either. Not feeling deprived about that either. I use some excellent toothpaste which is flouride-free. Still not feeling deprived! ;-) I use sea salt when I can instead of commercial table salt. Still not feeling deprived. I take no prescription drugs. Still not feeling deprived. Very little alchohol. Still not feeling deprived! ;-)

These are all simple lifestyle choices...they're not driven by raving paranoia or quaking fear, but merely calm and unhurried choices to act on the possibility of avoiding a few common things that (in excess) may pose substantial health risk (after having done considerable reading and investigation on the matter).

There are easy alternatives to using all those things. There are also easy alternatives to avoiding a pretty crappy diet that is full of sugar, white flour, junk food, etc...but I know a lot of people who just can't be bothered to alter their conventional comfort zone in any way. So does that mean I'm paranoid? ;-) Naw.....it just mean I'm not so lazy and set in my ways that I "just can't be bothered to change". It interests me to see what things I can change from the standard routine that's all around me...it always did.

Now remember: In Roman times everyone thought that the best possible wine could only come from lead-lined bottles...the lead gave the wine a characteristic taste that was highly valued. That's how the rich people drank their wine in ancient Rome, and it gradually poisoned them and it had a very harmful longterm effect on that society.

If anyone with an alternative health view at the time had walked up to those Roman patricians who figured they had the world by the tail and knew it ALL, and said, "Lead lined bottles are poisoning you. You've got to stop lining your wine bottles with lead, because it's making you sick and shortening your life."

Well............!!!! That person would have been laughed at, ridiculed, and depicted as a raving paranoid, not to mention "a threat to the wine business". That was the conventional wisdom of the day.

You think it's any different now? It isn't. Every conventional society does some stupid, self-destructive things like that, they all make money for someone, hardly anyone questions it, and it's up to people a long time later to realize just how blind they were to be doing it back then. That IS the state of this society right now. In spades. Just like it was back then. And maybe worse. The general state of mind out there is nothing more than "monkey-see, monkey-do", eat what's put in the trough, buy what's advertised on the tube, practice unquestioning imitation and acceptance of the commonplace status quo...and of society's hierarchical authority structures, all of them run by rich people with big financial interest in maintaining the status quo.

A century from now a lot of the mistakes we're making now will be known, but by then it'll be too late for us, won't it? And they'll be dealing with some other set of brand new conventional blind spots all their own, and the few brave souls who point THAT out will be getting ridiculed for doing so...because that's what normally happens when anyone challenges convention in any society.

****

I'm not referring specifically to the video about the Smart meters in all the above. I haven't made my mind up about it one way or another, I neither accept it nor reject it, I merely find it has me wondering if it might be uncovering a real problem like the guy says.

No, I've referring to the general ignorant attitude prevalent in conventional-minded people which is akin to an ostrich with his head buried deep in the sand of his own conventionality who says, "Sand? What sand? You must be crazy. I don't see any sand. I'm doing just fine here, so don't bother me."

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 12:35 PM

LH, far be it from me to get in the way of your obvious affinity for & enjoyment of delusional, paranoid fantasies. And no, I won't do your

homework for you; since you wouldn't believe anything I said, it would be an exercise in futility at best.

You can research these meters and how they operate for yourself - there are plenty of responsible sources available on-line and in

print(gasp!).

These meters measure electric wattage used. Period. Some only when activated, some at specified intervals, and some in real time. Period.

That's all they do.

No, they can't tell what appliance you're using, or when you go to the bathroom, or if you're "running a server", who you're sleeping with, or

any of the ridiculous, hysterical, overblown nonsense on that idiotic video.

As for EMF, the meters provide far less RF exposure than do cell phones, wireless LAN, cordless(non-cell) phones, wireless doorbells, microwave ovens, baby monitors, Citizens-Band or Family Radio Service hand-helds & untold other modern appliances.

Have fun educating yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 12:53 PM

I've had mine for months with no problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: gnu
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 01:21 PM

Ealth Canada has just issued this regarding cell phones.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 01:31 PM

The only untoward effect that I have noticed from my "delusional" lifestyle, Greg, is that I experience an interesting change around the time of the full moon. It has required the construction of an underground room with chains, restraints, and a heavily barred door. But I won't bother explaining it to you any further since you wouldn't believe anything I said, and it would be an exercise in futility at best.

;-D

(as is arguing with any stubborn person about anything at all on the Internet...we all do it, but after we've done it we realize we just wasted another bit of our own lives in an absolutely pointless endeavour)




Note: Health Canada appears to be joining the legions of the deluded! Just like the World Health Organization, they are beginning to show some signs of nervousness regarding the longterm effects of cellphone use.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 04:30 PM

...the longterm effects of cellphone use.

LH: I had thought - from the title of the thread, from the idiotic video & from the other postings - we were discussing "smart meters", not cell phones.

Guess I was mistaken.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 04:31 PM

Or you are?

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: gnu
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 04:49 PM

Threads wander sometimes Greg. It got discussed and there was pertinent news which I wished to impart to you so that you can keep yourself and your loved ones safe and sound. You are welcome.

If you don't like it, run up yer cell phone bill... I got pics of what it's like to have yer neck sliced and diced to remove a cell phone tumour. UNfortunately, it's MY neck.

Whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 06:22 PM

Relax, Gnu - nowt to do with you; I were talkin, to da Hawk. I don't dispute the potential health risks of cell phones, far from it. AND I don't use 'em.

Folks do need to remember not to keep their heads touching their electric meters for extended periods of time, tho. (joke)

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 06:35 PM

I don't mind a bit if you disagree with me about something, Greg. As for thread drift, that happens all the time around here, nothing to get in a snit about.

I am not particularly worried about the Smart meters. Just somewhat interested in what this guy had to say, that's all. There might be something to it, there might not. I don't decide in a second or two about something like that, I file it away under "Okay...interesting topic...maybe I'll hear some more about this presently...we'll see..."

What it will do, I'm sure, is increase profits for the utility companies, because they can lay off a whole bunch of meter readers who they presently employ. I figure that's probably the main reason why they are making the conversion.

Cellphones? Well, we seem to agree on that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 08:01 PM

I don't disagree with you about the "smart meters", LH - reality does.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 08:35 PM

Speaking for myself, I don't trust NO one who knows more about me than I do. And that includes my goddam gov'ment, telephone company, bank, psychiatrist, doctor, friend or enemy. That's that! AND, I don't give a rat's ass in the meadow who knows it.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 09:58 PM

Geeeezuz 999 ..... I wouldn't include those who work at the telephone company with bankers, psychiatrists and the goddam gov'ment !

biLL .... :~[

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 10:43 PM

No, Greg, YOU disagree with me about it. You talk on the Internet. You talk to ME on the Internet. Reality just sits there all around us and continues to exist as each one of us interprets it through the filter of our acquired habits, opinions, and assumptions. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 08:04 AM

Reality just sits there

That's only your passive approach, LH - you need to become engaged with and actively embrace reality. Then you'd see that the video is bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 01:48 PM

I haven't taken any particular position on that video, Greg. I found it intriguing, all right, but I neither adopt it as "right" nor reject it as "wrong" at this point, because I don't really feel I have enough info to do that.

What I meant about reality is that it's there all around us, just being what it is....and you are the one pretending that it's in a special alliance with YOU and against anyone who disagrees with you about something. I am not pretending anything of the sort.

The only thing we disagree about regarding the video is that you have quickly decided that it's TOTALLY WRONG....and I haven't yet come to such a decision. I am willing to admit that I don't know enough to be able to say whether or not it's totally wrong, partially wrong, or entirely correct in what it says. You are willing to admit no such thing. You are already 100% sure that you know all you need to know about this particular subject. That's where we differ.............your absolute CERTAINTY that you KNOW...my willingness to admit that I don't.

I usually find myself in disagreement with people who have absolute CERTAINTY that they already KNOW all there is to KNOW about whatever is under discussion. Like the Jehovah's Witnesses, for example. Get what I mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: gnu
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:19 PM

sIx... you trust the phone company?! You've never seen... "The President's Analyst is a 1967 satirical comedy film written and directed by Theodore J. Flicker, starring James Coburn." I highly recommend it. It's hilarious.

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:42 PM

gnu .... yes, I have seen it .... thanks for refreshing my memory ... excellent movie, and yes incredibly hilarious.

btw ..... I work for 'the phone company'

bill ... ;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Smart meters (power companies)
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 09:29 PM

I don't know enough to be able to say ...

Ah, but LH, I DO know enough to be able to say that its bullshit, not because I've made a smap judgement, but because of my background in radio & electronics & physics & such like and because I've bothered to educate myself about the subject under discussion.

Go thou and educate thyself.