BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier

Subject: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 03:48 PM

This is taken from Facebook...please, PLEASE sign the petition which is going to The White House.

"This is a White House website generated "We the People" petition, created by the Leonard Peltier Defense Offense Committee - when we reach the goal of 5000 signatures by the October 22nd deadline, President Obama himself will review the petition.

Help win freedom for Untied States political prisoner - Native American human rights, activist Leonard Peltier. Wrongfully convicted and imprisoned for 35 years.

This petition is different to any other you may have signed in the past and it is absolutely vital that we reach our goal. We need only 920 more signatures and only have a very short time remaining to reach that goal. You can help, your family and friends can help in just a matter of minutes. You do not have to go anywhere to be a part of this event. Just stay right there at your computer!

We know how many Leonard Peltier supporters there are - so we should not have a problem reaching our goal. Unfortunately the response has been relatively slow so far considering how many of you supporters are out there.

Please take just a few minutes RIGHT NOW - do not delay - it is a very simple process to complete this petition. Just follow the link directly below. I have included instructions for the petition at the bottom of this page.

White House Petition to Grant Clemency for Leonard Peltier


PLEASE SHARE THIS TO YOUR WALL, YOUR FRIENDS WALLS & INVITE AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN. THIS IS A MOST URGENT MATTER!!

Instructions:

!. Follow the above link to the "We the People" petition page on the White House website.
2. Go to the "Create an Account" button.
3. Fill out your name, email (city & zip are optional) and fill in CAPTCHA box.
4. Go to your email account as you included in the registration process (you may need to check your junk mail depending on your email settings).
5. Open the email from the White House site and right click your mouse over the link they send to you & "copy".
6. "Paste" the link into your address bar at the top of your browser. (this will take you back to the petition page)
7. Click on the "sign petition" button.
8. You can then refresh the petition page to see your name added to the petition. Know you have now contributed to something very important.
9. To have other people sign the petition from the same computer, you will need to "sign out" at the bottom of the petition page before you can continue with a new signature.

To know more about political prisoner Leonard Peltier go to the official Leonard Peltier Defense Offense Committee website:
www.whoisleonardpeltier.info

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: gnu
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 03:58 PM

Or google.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 04:29 PM

Peter, please cite your sources. This is a very emotional, volatile issue, one I have followed for years. Just refuting what Lizzie has posted is not creditable without solid cites, imo.

Thanks, Lizzie. I will be signing.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 04:39 PM

Thanks, kat.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 04:45 PM

Leonard Peltier's Lawyer speaking about the Solitary Confiment

Former Prison Guard, Bruce Smith, who knew Leonard for 20 years in prison


"...The Prosecuting Attornies now admit they cannot prove that Peltier actually committed the crime...." (taken from the link above)

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: gnu
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 04:46 PM

kat... google it and read it all for yourSELF. It's in the PUBLIC record. No need to supply "sources" for sommat you can easily find from THE sources. Just type his name into a search engine. He was a baaaad dude and he got off light... according to the SOURCES.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: BTNG
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 05:00 PM

Numerous doubts have been raised over Peltier's guilt and the fairness of his trial, based on allegations and inconsistencies regarding the FBI and prosecution's handling of this case:

    FBI radio intercepts indicated that the two FBI agents had been pursuing a red pickup truck; this was confirmed by the FBI the day after the shootout. Red pickup trucks near the reservation were stopped for weeks, but Leonard Peltier did not drive a red pickup truck. Evidence was given that Peltier was driving a suburban vehicle, sometimes known as a stationwagon or panelvan, a large sedan with an enclosed rear section, able to be accessed from inside the front of the vehicle, by climbing over the seats, or by opening the door or hatch at the rear. Peltier's vehicle was red with a white roof; not a red, open-tray pickup truck with no white paint. The FBI agents' radio message said that the suspect they were pursuing was driving a red pickup truck, with no additional details. At Peltier's trial, the FBI testified that it had been searching for a red and white van, which Peltier was sometimes seen driving. This was a highly contentious matter of evidence in the trials.

Source

    Unlike the juries in similar prosecutions against AIM leaders at the time, the Fargo jury were not allowed to hear about other cases in which the FBI had been rebuked for tampering with evidence and witnesses.

    An FBI ballistics expert testimony during the trial asserted that a shell case found near the dead agents' bodies matched the rifle tied to Peltier. He said that a forensics test of the firing pin, which would have more definitively matched the gun to the cartridge case, was not performed because the gun was damaged in the fire. A less definitive test indicated that the extractor marks on the case and rifle matched.

    Years later, after an FOIA request, the FBI ballistics expert's records were examined. His report said that he had performed a ballistics test of the firing pin and concluded that the cartridge case from the scene of the crime did not come from the rifle tied to Peltier. That evidence was withheld from the jury during the trial

Source: as above

Though the FBI's investigation indicated that an AR-15 was used to kill the agents, several different AR-15s were in the area at the time of the shootout. Also, no other cartridge cases or evidence about them were offered by the prosecutor's office, although other bullets were fired at the crime scene. During the trial, all the bullets and bullet fragments found at the scene were provided as evidence and detailed by Cortland Cunningham, FBI Firearms expert, in testimony.

(Ref US v Leonard Peltier Vol 9).

At the conclusion of Peltier's trial, the prosecutor closed his argument saying, "We proved that he went down to the bodies and executed those two young men at point blank range." However, at the appellate hearing, the government attorney conceded, "We had a murder. We had numerous shooters. We do not know who specifically fired what killing shots...We do not know who shot the agents

(Ref US v Leonard Peltier Vol 9).

The Pennsylvania Parole Commission, which presides over the Lewisburg prison where Peltier was held, denied Peltier parole in 1993 based on their finding that he "participated in the premeditated and cold blooded execution of those two officers." But, the Parole Commission has since stated that it "recognizes that the prosecution has conceded the lack of any direct evidence that [Peltier] personally participated in the executions of the two FBI agents

Source

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 05:04 PM

Lizzie, you already know that I have signed. The conditions he is being kept in/care he receives for his medical condition are dreadful. He has suffered for 36 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 05:04 PM

The Peltier trial-
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/peltier/peletieraccount.html
(Or google Leonard Peletier Trial)

Peltier should have been executed for his brutal killings.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 05:14 PM

Yes, thank you, Jean for signing. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 05:24 PM

Interesting....

John Trudell talking about the FBI's roll in this...

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 05:34 PM

don't believe all you read on Farcebook

I don't think that any of us signing here have relied totally on Facebook to decide that there are grave doubts about his guilt.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: BTNG
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 05:50 PM

First of all, I trust nothing I read on Outer Space Book

Secondly, It's interesting to note that by Douglas O. Linder the author of The Famous Trials website that Q references uses documents whose accuracy of events has been called into question, including at least two that I have cited....and a single source does not constitute a safe verdict on the events...so, like Mr. GUEST,Peter Laban I would suggest the Q's piece is an opinion rather than a statement of the facts and I think we know what they both think.

Thank You M'Lud

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: gnu
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 07:06 PM

There IS a single source... the court(s) that convicted him and continue(d) to uphold the verdict(s).

Petitions for freedom rather than due process? What a load of horseshit. I thought we were beyond mob rule... HUNDREDS of years ago? Isn't that EXACTLY WHY we have a justice system? What's next?... lynchings?

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 07:51 PM

Courts do and have made mistakes; there are many cases of miscarriages of justice. I don't think signing a petition can be classed as mob rule and I don't think we are all about to go out and lynch someone.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: BTNG
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 07:57 PM

.....and some of the evidence in highly suspect in many people's eyes, learned people at that, and yes, as eanjay says, mistakes have been known to have been committed by many judiciary systems

Once more I state, these are opinion pieces not statements of fact, though the authors may differ with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 10:16 PM

Peletier was granted a full hearing in 2009 before the U. S. Parole Commission following which his parole request was denied. His next scheduled hearing is in 2024- much too soon.

Parole was abolished for federal convicts in 1987, but Peletier remains eligible because he was convicted before then.

Blake Nicholson, Associated Press, August 21, 2009. Reported in Newsday.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: BTNG
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 10:31 PM

we know your opinion Q..no idea why you're continuing to bang on about it. I've simply presented statements and paperwork, I'm taking neither one side nor the other in this matter

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 11:34 PM

Thank you, SRS! Have read several of those over the years. It is good of you to have posted so many sources.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 11:36 PM

Personally, I'm not willing to say that he was framed simply because the FBI (oh, horrors) was involved. The original appeal decision, which the Supreme Court declined to review, covers the case, including all of the allegations of FBI malfeasance, pretty thoroughly. And yes, I realize this citation is located on an anti-Peltier website, but it is still the court decision text.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 02:41 AM

The freeing of Leonard Peltier is a long-time liberal cause, so old that it doesn't garner much attention anymore. The Wikipedia article, if it is to be believed, sounds quite credible in defense of Peltier - but the conviction has gone through the normal cycle of appeals and has been upheld.

Still, the doubt exits. Was Peltier convicted for actually committing a murder, or was it for political reasons?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 03:21 AM

I wasn't expecting the hatred that's been shown on here by some folks. It's quite upset me to be honest, although the far more positive views have helped to balance it out.

This man has served over 36 years. THIRTY SIX YEARS. And they are still treating him so inhumanely.

As eanjay states above, there have been *many* miscarriages of justice over time. I think though that his is the very worst I've ever come to know about.

I would say it's filled with racism and hatred against the AIM and against all American Indians, who, for so very long have been treated like shite in their own country.

Were this happening in another land...as it now is in Brazil, to a lesser extent though, then many Americans would be up in arms about it.   

Sadly, it seems they refuse to see their own Indigenous People in the same light. They refuse to stand up, as a country, and admit that what has happened to the American Indians has been beyond belief, beyond comprehension...and it is STILL going on today.

Obama is making some headway, but nowhere near fast enough and that in itself is insulting.

America, in my opnion, will never be a civlised nation until it has an American Indian President, with American Indians serving in high numbers within Government.

To this day, so many of them live in squalor on reservations, forgotten, shoved into the wilderness....derided, verbally abused..grossly high unemployment, horrendouly high suicide rate etc...

Leonard Peltier, in my opinion, is purely the most major victim of racism against his People...and that bastards who've done this to him will get their comeuppence, either in this life, or the next.

I think the American Justice System is archaic and appalling. The American People should be out on the streets about it, because it is filled with racist bastards who have been given a freehand to behave however they want, twisting and spinning to their own ends, whilst feeding their fat white faces with the enjoyment of seeing yet another 'black' or 'indian' go down....

I do not understand....

It would not happen in my country because over here we at least have the guts to say "Yes, we were wrong" and deal with each case appropriately...but over in the USA this doesn't seem to happen.

It is barbaric.

And they dare to highlight the treatment of people in the Middle East, when in their own country they lock people up for near on 40 years, treat them appallingly throughout that time, or murder innocent black men, despite the world standing up and saying "NO!!!!!"

The American Justice System is rotten to the core...absolutely rotten...

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 03:23 AM

"The American Justice System is rotten to the core...absolutely rotten.."

And so is the FBI.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 04:52 AM

I believe there has been a serious miscarriage of justice in Leonard Peltier's case ..... but irrespective of whether he is innocent or guilty people should be up in arms about the treatment he receives - it is a disgrace.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 05:36 AM

FBI war against the AIM

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 05:53 AM

EXCELLENT video, from a man who cares deeply and for whom I have a great deal of respect.

This is a REAL eye opener!!

Russell Means talking about Leonard Peltier and the USA justice system

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 10:48 AM

Vine Deloria, Jr Custer Died for Your Sins: An Indian Manifesto is good reading about now.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 11:37 AM

There is indeed injustice and prejudice against aboriginal peoples in many societies.

This person sems to face very poor conditions in prison. This should stop, with this person and others.

Some police agencies and individual policemenfrequently use unlawful processes against those they feel are guoilty of an offense. If you disrespet them, it gets worse.

Killing of any enforcement officer is taken seriously by the police and the courts.

Those suspected of political offenses face an additional burden with police agencies, and the courts.

There may be different levels of justice in different locals and times. But, once a person is found guilty, it is an uphill battle to reverse that decision.

There seems to be strong opinions on both sides of the issue, right or wrong.

Now that all those side factors are out of the way, was justice done? I don't know. But, IMO, one should focus on the evidence of guilt or innocence, not all the social and other side issues to get support.

Persdonally, I don't feel petitions are of much use. But< I do not sign any of em without being sure of the validity what I am signing. And< I do not know enough to know that.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 12:49 PM

There IS a single source... the court(s) that convicted him and continue(d) to uphold the verdict(s).

Umm - take that up with the list of innocent folks killed by the Texas court system, why dontcha?

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: gnu
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 03:03 PM

The system isn't perfect but the system exists, thank goodness.

Open the doors and let all the prisoners out? Good plan? I'll stick with the system.

BTW, have any of you signed/started a petition for better treatment of inmates? Anyone actively, in ANY way, lobbying governments to improve the judical and penal systems?

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 04:40 PM

unholders of the law

You betcha- it WAS the UNHOLDERS of the law that railroaded & imprisoned him. Got that in one.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: gnu
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 05:03 PM

Greg... apparently a goodly number of lawyers AND justices of the US court systemssss disagree with you.

In any case, I said my piece. gnightgnu.

Oh, as usual, take this opportunity to slag me off and try to get me to post again by posting inane shit about me. I aim that statement at nobody in particular as there are more than a few who will likely do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 05:12 PM

I know they do, Gnu, but they also claim that Bruce Edwards Ivins was the perp. in the Anthrax Letters business, with no real proof whatsoever. I could cite you plenty of other examples, as well.

Its known as "Covering Your Ass After You Screw Up".

Sorry to disappoint in the slagging-off-and-inane-shit department. I suppose I could try, tho, if you wish.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: BTNG
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 05:41 PM

The law is not infallible, the law is not beyond making mistakes, and those that believe otherwise take naivety to a whole new level, Unfortunately society is full of such people and that makes certain elements of society very dangerous indeed. To put it simply and in words that are perfectly understandable, this is what is called the lynch-mob mentality. Never mind that there might be mistakes being made (ask Timothy Evans and Derek Bentley about that one), hang the SOB regardless, we (the mob) believe him/her to be guilty, so there he/she must die. One day that mentality will turn around and bite the mob on its fat, self-satisfied, sanctimonious, self-righteous arse, and then where will we be...?

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 05:47 PM

gnu , Here you go....you miseable pile of bat droppings!

Wish come true:)

I know you did not go to bed this early, and are really stealthy watching this post, for examples of personal abuse:)

BTW, in your humble defense, (or is it offense?) just because we all have somewhat different perspectives in many areas, that is no reason to call you a worthless fart wind :)

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: gnu
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 07:06 PM

Yeah, fuck you too buddy. >;-) Your post on the "other" thread made me do that. It's YOUR fault. Ya deserve it ya scum bag. As for being a monitor of this thread, at least I am not a brainless lizard.

Makes no sense you say? Why, it's appropraiate I should think given the drivel so far.

Yes, why do you ask? I should have thought you would have understood as much.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 07:21 PM

Good "come back", Gnu.
Leaping lizards:)

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Mayet
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 09:35 AM

As Joe Offer observes this is "a long-time liberal cause" not a recent 'bandwagon'.

Unlike the OP and some others, the information available outside the 'normal cycle of appeals' fails to convince me of Peltier's
innocence and an undeniably flawed trial doesn't necessarily equate with lack of guilt either any more than exercising critical thought, sceptism about professional public relations and lobbyists campaigns and entertaining reasonable doubt makes me a 'right winger'.

Perhaps the most damning testimony I've read was that of former AIM activist KaMook Nicols then wife of AIM leader Dennis Banks.

During the trial of Arlo Looking Cloud for the execution style murder of Annie Mae Pictou-Aquash (considered the highest-ranking woman in AIM who was close to Leonard Peltier but in the increasing paranoia within the organization suspected of working for the FBI) Nicols claimed that Peltier had bragged to her and Annie Mae Pictou-Aquash about shooting both agents at close range although chillingly, he claimed one was begging for his life.
trial transcript

Although Nicols has been accused of accepting money from the FBI for her testimony Paul DeMain has also reported that he had met with several people who said they had heard Leonard Peltier in 1975 confess to the shootings of the two FBI agents at the Pine Ridge Reservation and that
"As editor of News From Indian Country, I stand by our credible and trusted sources, and my present belief, that the primary motive for the murder of Annie Mae Pictou-Aquash by other members of the American Indian Movement in Mid-December 1975, allegedly was her knowledge that Leonard Peltier had shot the two agents, as he was convicted."

I can find no argument with eanjay's contention that "irrespective of whether he is innocent or guilty people should be up in arms about the treatment he receives"

However, this should be applied equally to the estimated 20,000 plus prisoners held in isolation (which has become a "regular part of the rhythm of prison life") in the United States at any one time, and not just one, very publicized, case

If the OP was to promote a petition against the unnecessary uses of solitary confinement for minor infractions and to demand better medical and mental health care* for all then I would certainly sign.

* "There are facilities with four or five thousand people that only have two or three doctors." Around the country, some physicians are operating on a license that restricts their work to correctional facilities
because they are deemed not qualified to provide care in the community. misguided federal law deprives correctional systems of desperately needed Medicaid and Medicare dollars to fund decent health care. Many people in prison and jail qualify for these federal benefits and lose them when they are incarcerated. Just like any other community healthcare provider, correctional agencies should be reimbursed for the cost of providing health services to people who are Medicaid and Medicare eligible"
Dr. Joe Goldenson
Confronting Confinement report

Stop Prison Abuse petition

National Religious Campaign Against Torture. "Torture is a Moral Issue" Statemen

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 09:47 AM

and an undeniably flawed trial doesn't necessarily equate with lack of guilt

Nor does it necessarily equate with GUILT.

"Flawed?" the trial was a joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 12:51 PM

""the trial was a joke""

I suspect in USA justice, that would widely open the door to the appeal process.

If so, why did appeals not confirm/pick up on these flaws, if they were legally compelling?

You have to excuse my lack of knowledge on the details. But, many here have seemed to have read up alot on the topic. I have noticed through a GOOGLE seatrch that many internet sources of information would hardly be considered unbiased.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 02:09 PM

If so, why did appeals not confirm/pick up on these flaws, if they were legally compelling?

Well, U.S. law has some interestingquirks- look up Supreme Court case Herrera v. Collins, 506 U.S. 390 (1993)

Then there's Justice Clarence Thomas & Justice Antonin Scalia who criticized their colleagues for thinking that mere innocence is grounds to overturn a conviction:

    ""This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is "actually" innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged "actual innocence" is constitutionally cognizable.""

I could go on......

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: gnu
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 02:38 PM

""This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is "actually" innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged "actual innocence" is constitutionally cognizable.""

So, if one is proven guity and one cannot prove otherwise under habeas corpus but merely alleges he is innocent, he is guilty in the eyes of the courts. Ahhh, yeah, that's the way it works. Otherwise, open the doors... which, again, is pretty "quirky" to me.

I dunno IF you should go on.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: artbrooks
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 02:55 PM

The appeals court (decision linked above) looked at each 'flaw' that Mr. Peltier and his attorneys raised. They said that some of the issues were clearly valid but they were not so egregious as to warrant either overturning the verdict or ordering a new trial.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 03:49 PM

I don't believe the role of a state of federal appeal court is to decide if a person is innocent or guilty nor if errors were made on either side. The role is to the review trial proceedings and decisions of lower courts to determine if errors were made that were "serious enough" to effect a trial outcome.

I believe the role of the USA Supreme Court is somewhat different (as noted below). So, the comments you refered to by Greg F, could have been be taken out of context.

The USA Supreme Court's Role
""The Court typically will agree to hear a case only when it involves an unusually important legal principle, or when two or more federal appellate courts have interpreted a law differently. There are also a small number of special circumstances in which the Supreme Court is required by law to hear an appeal.""


US Federal courts

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 03:51 PM

Last post, first line of my last post should read:I don't believe the role of a state "or" federal appeal court

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 06:36 PM

Ahhh, yeah, that's the way it works....I dunno IF you should go on.

Not only should I, I will.

That AIN'T exactly how it works & 'taint that simple.- check it out, here, & do read the dissenting opinions:

CLICK HERE

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: gnu
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:05 PM

So, the cop that got killed said he did it but the little kid said, much later, that grampa did it so the shooter should go free? Fuckin unreal. Yer gonna believe a recount from 9 year old boy's memory years later under habeus rather than THE GUY THAT WAS KILLED?!!! along with all the other evidnce?!!! I really don't have time to read PAGES of legal documentation misinterpreted as showing the justice system failed when it obviously did not.

The cop that died said it was the convicted man that killed him and there was lots of evidence to the same effect. I am gone. This is just too strange.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 08:17 PM

I really don't have time to read PAGES of legal documentation misinterpreted as showing the justice system failed when it obviously did not.

Fascinating. You haven't read the material, but you know what it says and know its been misinterpreted and can draw positive conclusions about what you haven't read, based on what you haven't read.

Talk about strange.... that's REALLY strange.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 08:54 PM

Greg F, thank you for the link. I haven't read it all :) However, what I have read is interesting.

A person when first charged with a crime is entitled to a presumption of innocence, and may insist that his guilt be established beyond a reasonable doubt. However, it was observed that [d]ue process does not require that every conceivable step be taken, at whatever cost, to eliminate the possibility of convicting an innocent person.

Once a defendant has been afforded a fair trial and convicted of the offense for which he was charged, the presumption of innocence disappears and there is a lot in the link which highlights the difficulties that someone, who has been wrongly convicted, faces to clear their name once that presumption of innocence disappears.

Subject: RE: BS: Petition to Free Leonard Peltier
From: Sawzaw
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 11:30 PM

The actions of an innocent man:

On November 14, when an Oregon state trooper spotted someone who resembled Peltier riding in a Dodge Explorer motor home. The man believed to be Peltier gave the officer a false name--then took off into the night over a fence, firing in the trooper's direction. The driver of the motor home sped off, but the vehicle was later found abandoned, with the motor running, a couple of miles down the highway. A search of the vehicle turned of a paper bag containing Jack Coler's [murdered agent's] Smith and Wesson .357 magnum gun. A fingerprint on the bag matched that of Peltier. Agents also discovered nine grenades and dynamite in the RV. Peltier's fingerprints also turned up in an Oregon ranch home where other guns recovered from the motor home had been reported stolen.

After his close encounter with the trooper in eastern Oregon, Peltier found his way to Portland, and then crossed the border into British Columbia. He learned there that Robideau and Butler faced murder charges, and that his own face appeared on the FBI's "Ten Most Wanted Fugitives" list in post offices and law enforcement agencies. Feeling to conspicuous in predominately white southern Canada, Peltier headed north, first to B. C.'s Kamloops region, and then east to a remote native camp in Alberta. In early February, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police learned through an informer that Peltier could be found near Hinton, a town 160 miles west of Edmonton. The mounties discovered Peltier sitting in a schoolhouse next to a suitcase containing two loaded revolvers, one of which had been stolen from an Oregon farmhouse. Mounties transported Peltier to a Vancouver prison to await a hearing on his possible extradition to the United States.

The case for extradition rested on the Wisconsin "attempted murder" charge, murder charges relating to the deaths of the two FBI agents at Oglala, and attempted murder of an Oregon trooper. Under Canadian law, extradition was appropriate if evidence was presented that could convince any reasonable jury that the suspect was guilty of the charge or charges. The United States presented six witnesses and entered thirty affidavits in making its case for Peltier's extradition. Peltier, who asked for political asylum, presented ten witnesses on his behalf--most of whom stressed AIM's role at Oglala and tense situation that had existed between rival Indian groups and the federal authorities. The government's only direct eyewitness testimony came in the form of two affidavits signed by Myrtle Poor Bear. Poor Bear asserted that Peltier and others had not only planned the killings, but carried them out himself--and that she was with Peltier when he did it. "I saw Leonard Peltier shoot the agents," Poor Bear's affidavit stated. Angered at the shooting, Poor Bear (according to her affidavit) screamed at Peltier, hit him, and ran away.

aw2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/peltier/peltieraccount.html