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A Child of Merseyside

Raggytash 13 Oct 11 - 06:10 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 13 Oct 11 - 06:20 AM
Bernard 13 Oct 11 - 07:35 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 13 Oct 11 - 07:41 AM
Bernard 13 Oct 11 - 07:42 AM
GUEST 13 Oct 11 - 07:44 AM
Bernard 13 Oct 11 - 07:46 AM
Bernard 13 Oct 11 - 07:52 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 13 Oct 11 - 08:02 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 13 Oct 11 - 08:23 AM
Bernard 13 Oct 11 - 08:24 AM
Bernard 13 Oct 11 - 08:33 AM
Bernard 13 Oct 11 - 08:57 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 13 Oct 11 - 09:46 AM
GUEST,Yvonne 13 Oct 11 - 09:50 AM
Bernard 13 Oct 11 - 09:59 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 13 Oct 11 - 10:32 AM
Bernard 13 Oct 11 - 10:51 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 13 Oct 11 - 01:13 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 13 Oct 11 - 01:16 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 13 Oct 11 - 01:29 PM
Matthew Edwards 13 Oct 11 - 07:35 PM
Bernard 13 Oct 11 - 07:56 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 14 Oct 11 - 05:00 AM
Bernard 14 Oct 11 - 05:21 AM
GUEST,Yvonne 14 Oct 11 - 05:54 AM
Bernard 14 Oct 11 - 01:23 PM
Matthew Edwards 14 Oct 11 - 03:14 PM
Bernard 15 Oct 11 - 02:06 PM
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Subject: A Child of Mersetside
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 06:10 AM

Going through seldom played recordings I have come across "The Flowers Of Manchester" by the Two Beggarmen, they were a great turn in the 70's around the clubs in Manchester. One song which I am going to add to my reportoire in A Child of Merseyside, the chorus goes

I think of her where'er I go
wherever I may bide
Liverpool to Manchester
along the flowing tide
and I raise me glass into the air
and drink to her with pride
for each of us was born
a child of Merseyside

Anyone any idea who wrote it ?

Cheers

Nick


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 06:20 AM

I somehow think of the term "Merseyside" as being relatively new; e.g. would the term have been used widely - or at all - 100 yrs ago?
I'm not sure even today, it would be used as it is in the lyrics above.
I'm sure people from Liverpool would say "Liverpool" and people from St Helens would say "St Helens", and people from Formby and Southport might even say that they're from Lancashire - in preference to Merseyside.


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:35 AM

Rosie Hardman - it was on her first album 'Queen of Hearts', and I still have my copy!

I occasionally sing the song, though Rosie won't because the time has passed... I'll post the full lyrics in a few minutes.

Merseyside in this context (before the boundary changes) applies to her home town of Urmston, as the Mersey passes through there on its way from Stockport to Liverpool. If you drive along the Carrington Spur (M60) you'll cross the Mersey, and there are signs letting you know!


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:41 AM

Well, I'll go to foot of our stairs, never would have guessed that, Thanks Bernard, Rosie always write some bloody good songs, I'm just trying (again) to do Cleveland County justice.


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:42 AM

Child of Merseyside       (Rosie Hardman 1967, approx)

I was born down in Manchester
Way back in 'forty-five
They call her the rainy city,
And it's true while I'm alive.
I swore if I had the money,
And I'd still the strength to run,
I'd leave that River Mersey,
And I'd find myself the sun,

Chorus:
Oh, and I think of her where e'er I go,
Wherever I may 'bide
Liverpool to Manchester,
Along the flowing tide,
I raise my glass into the air,
And I drink to her with pride
For each of us was born
A child of Merseyside.

When I was young, I used to say
The countryside's for me.
Away from all the chimneystacks,
The mills and industry.
I'd leave the dirty waters
Of the old Ship Canal,
But now I feel that I'd be leaving
My oldest pal.

(chorus)

As I grew up, I used to dream
Of Canada's green pines.
Longed to see the grapes of France,
And tread them from the vines,
Dreamt of all the treasures
When the open road was mine,
But now that River Mersey,
Well, she's filled my heart and mind.

(chorus)

From Wallasey to Wavertree,
Through Allerton and Hale,
Widnes up to Warrington,
And onwards into Sale.
See the many ships
As they sail upon the sea,
They'll carry many cargoes,
But they'll never carry me.


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:44 AM

What was the point of Tunesmiths contribution ?


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:46 AM

I'm sure Rosie will cruise in at some point and fill out the details a little more.

She used to comment on the last line with a twinkle in her eye... those who know Rosie will realise she's no stick insect!! ;o)


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:52 AM

Tunesmith's contribution was querying the mention of Manchester in connection with Merseyside...

When the song was written, Liverpool was still part of Lancashire, and Merseyside still meant 'by the side of the Mersey', hence Tunesmith's confusion!


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 08:02 AM

When the song was written Manchester was part of Lancashire and still is, the 1974 boundary changes were only for political considerations, i.e.local government, the actual county boundaries remain the same and as I, like Rosie, was born in Urmston (the cottage hospital back in 1955) I too am a child of Merseyside and a Lancastrian. (Bernard, ask Ted about the Free Lancastrian Army that we jointed formed with others, notably Bob Marshall, in 1974. We even had a Airbourne division, Ted's hang glider and a Naval division, my Kayak, the Armoured division was Ted's Ex GPO Moggy Thou)


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 08:23 AM

Unfortunately, the modern usage of the word "Merseyside" - as applied to an English county( of sorts), throws the lyrics off somewhat; e.g. a song entitled " Child of Greater Manchester" would - to my ears - sound "wrong".
Maybe Rosie should do a rewrite. Simply changing "Child of Merseyside" to " A Child of the Mersey" might be a start.
Or would that just lead to more confusion?


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 08:24 AM

Interestingly, the Post Office still recognises the old boundaries - my postal address is still 'Bolton, Lancs'!

I'm not surprised to find Ted involved in such activities...!! He's still determined to have a microlite flight, but finding someone prepared to take on the risk is proving very tricky.


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 08:33 AM

Rosie will NOT do a rewrite!! I think I know her well enough to guess the expletive she would use to dismiss such a suggestion!!

Should we also change 'The Lowlands of Holland'? - perhaps to 'Oh I do like to be by Zuider Zee side'...!!

Seriously, though, there really is no need to change it, as it's historically correct.


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 08:57 AM

Thinking it through a little more, it occurs to me that it also gives you scope for additional 'patter' when introducing the song to an audience. Yes, the usage of 'Merseyside' has changed, but its real meaning has not.

There are lots of people who don't even know that the officially agreed source of the Mersey is in Stockport! That's the shopping centre is called 'Merseyway', near to Mersey Square!

I may just do this one at Lymm Folk Club's Singers Night this evening...!


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 09:46 AM

Bernard, the difference is that "The Lowlands of Holland" doesn't sound "wrong", but, I'm afraid the very title "Child of Merseyside"
doesn't ring true.
Of course, when the title is explained ...but that seems a very messy way of going about things.


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: GUEST,Yvonne
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 09:50 AM

Look forward to hearing it, Bernard.

See you later.


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 09:59 AM

"but, I'm afraid the very title "Child of Merseyside"
doesn't ring true."


Don't be silly! You're looking at it from a very skewed, selfish perspective. I know lots of people who were puzzled by the phrase 'Lowlands of Holland' - to them it sounded 'wrong', and there are even extensive threads on the 'Cat about it.

Lots of other songs require a little explanation so the audience can understand, and this is no different. Or are you one of those irritating people who sings a song without any word of explanation or attribution for the source?

When you get to the bottom of the hole, stop digging!!


See you later, Y!


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 10:32 AM

Well, I bet the subject of that song is more likely appeal to local performers than any others, and with that in mind, I would suggest that in its current form it wouldn't sound correct to people in the north-west of England - and in particular to any young people who might find their way accidentally in to a folk music club!
Remember the "writer's motto" - "clarity, clarity, CLARITY!"
And, songs should never be considered finished but rather "work in progress", and many writers have changed lyrics of songs even after they have appeared on recordings.
That makes sense.


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 10:51 AM

"Well, I bet the subject of that song is more likely appeal to local performers than any others"

Quite correct... nail on the head... but you are still digging...!!

You are entitled to your opinion, you have made your point, now you are trying to hammer your point home until you have split the wood.

This started off as an innocuous thread from Raggy trying to identify a song... why did you seek to spoil that?

Clarity has nothing to do with your argument - the song lyrics, particularly the last verse, make things perfectly clear. Or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

Pity help you when Rosie gets her teeth into you!

;o)

Truce?


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 01:13 PM

Bernard, you are one hammering, and you are one still digging.
The song title is confusing.
The Lowlands of Holland is not a confusing title; well, at least not someone from the UK who would know that Holland is a low lying country.


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 01:16 PM

I must admit that I thought Tunesmiths first contribution was a little obscure, in as much as it didn't answer the question posed i.e. who wrote the song. However the title of the song tells anyone who listens to or reads the lyrics what the song is about, that is, anyone who was born in a settlement be it hamlet, village, town or city that has the River Mersey running through it or by it is a child of Merseyside. As someone who has long left the town I was brought up in I still have a sentimental attachment to the area of my youth which I think is the "essence" of the song whether it be Merseyside as in this case or wherever an individual hails from. I would consider the vast majority of people could identify with the sentiments of the song.

If you read this Rosie, it will be ringing in the folk sessions in North Yorkshire shortly, thanks for touching old memories.

Nick


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 01:29 PM

I agree, if the the song was sung in the States it would make perfect sense; the title would just contain the of name an area in a foreign country BUT to anyone in the UK - or in the north-west of England, in particular - the title promises something that the song doesn't deliver.
And, as I have said, because of the passing of time and the change in meaning - to the general British public - of the term Merseyside, the title know sounds strange and very un-folky.
But that's not Rosie's fault, rather it's the fault of some silly government bureaucrat who decided to "create" a new "Merseyside"


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:35 PM

Enjoyed hearing Bernard sing this tonight.


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:56 PM

Thanks, Matthew - your poem was great... can I have a copy? Pretty please?!


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 05:00 AM

I live in South Manchester and the River Mersey is 10 minutes walk from my house. So, as far as I am concerned, I currently live on 'Merseyside'.

Historically, the River Mersey was the boundary between the historic counties of Lancashire and Cheshire. I am an amateur botanist and can tell you that, for botanical recording purposes, the north bank of the Mersey marks the southern boundary of the 'vice county' of South Lancashire (VC 59) and the south bank the northern boundary of the vice county of Cheshire (VC 58).


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Bernard
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 05:21 AM

Quite so! As for the location of the 'Lowlands of Holland' so perfunctorily dismissed above, may I recommend that this makes for interesting reading, where Carthy suggests Australia as one possible location...


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: GUEST,Yvonne
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 05:54 AM

Yes..agree with Matthew. It was lovely to hear you sing it last night, Bernard.

The lyrics explain precisely where Merseyside is.

No confusion in those at all.


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Bernard
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 01:23 PM

;o)


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 03:14 PM

@Bernard:- Somewhere in the depths of the Mudcat is a thread on poetry and clog dancing where I originally posted the poem you requested but I can't find it at present. So as a special treat, and because you asked so nicely, I've put it up on Soundcloud for you Poetry in Motion; A Tribute to Sam Sherry.

Matthew (an adopted child of Merseyside!)


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Subject: RE: A Child of Merseyside
From: Bernard
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 02:06 PM

Hah! Thanks for that, Matthew - great that there's audio as well!


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