Rebecca Fox CD: Opinions and Commentary Request.

Subject: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Often
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 06:13 AM

Hello! I am about two posts shy of being a completely and utterly new member here, so first of all a very warm greeting to everyone here (guests and all).
I think for many of us we find Folk Music through many paths. In my instance however, I have more or less married in to it. My partner is a singer, and I am inclined to think a rather gifted one. (bias fully admitted).
In any event she has been singing since she was a little girl, and has certainly been active in playing at as well as hosting and helping organize folk events in her community (West Midlands-Worcester area), but had never put out her own CD.. and being maybe a little too humble for her own good..never thought anyone would be interested.
Well to make a long story short, very soon she will have a self produced CD out.
Would the people here be willing to check out and give their thoughts and opinions on a few things..

1. The songs/performances themselves (there are two examples)
2. The look/function/appeal/etc. of the website.
3. people/places/sites that might be keen on it.
4. Other advice/commentary/opinion that you feel is relevant/constructive

Ok here is the website:

Rebecca Fox Music Website

Sorry for a bit of a longish post. Your thoughts/advice/help is
VERY much appreciated.

-Cheers!

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 06:29 AM

Loved the singing - Rebecca's certainly very talented - and the recordings sounded well produced. Would have liked a little taster of each track if I was a prospective purchaser.

The website pages forced me to scroll from side to side - never a good idea - so my advice would be to reduce the page size.

If you're going to produce videos for your website or for YouTube, some actual shots of Rebecca singing live would be a great help - and keep all the advertising stuff to a separate web page.

Just my two penn'orth...

And welcome to Mudcat! :-)

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 06:44 AM

Web page is much too wide. It's about 1520. I can read this without horizontal scrolling but a lot of people will not be able to (and a number of those who can will find this width uncomfortable).

Drop this so it will all fit at 1024.

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Often
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 02:32 PM

"Loved the singing - Rebecca's certainly very talented - and the recordings sounded well produced. Would have liked a little taster of each track if I was a prospective purchaser."

I love Rebecca's singing too!! She had a bit of help with some post production but push comes to shove everything you hear is Rebecca, including the recording.

As far as teaser tracks, I think those or a couple of full tracks, but not sure if both. My thinking is that two full tracks should give an idea of what Rebecca's music is about, as most of the songs should be familiar to a folk crowd I'd think. No?

"Web page is much too wide. It's about 1520. I can read this without horizontal scrolling but a lot of people will not be able to (and a number of those who can will find this width uncomfortable).

Drop this so it will all fit at 1024."

Well I know very little HTML and even less CSS and even less still PhP, so I am using a website creation program (WebPlus). It works with fixed widths, so I targeted (or at least thought I did) for 1280x800 as from what I was reading is actually becoming more popular than 10245x768. That being said, I think I need to size it down to fit usable space and not just absolute space. (accounting for search bars etc.)
I think at least. I'll play around with it a bit. Might even make an alternate version for smaller browsers..


As for the CD itself Rebecca is expecting to flog them to the hordes at her folk club sessions and the odd gigs she does, but do you think there might be a market online for her?

I am thinking that her voice might appeal to people who might not normally find folk appealing, while still not alienating the true blue of the folk music crowd. Am I off base on this?

..and again thank you!!

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 05:14 AM

There's always an online market for recordings. Just depends on how you get the site - and therefore the buying opportunity - placed out there.

As far as a voice or repertoire "appealing" to certain sets of people, well... all I would say is: sing what you really want to sing - what you enjoy singing - and let people decide for themselves. You know the saying - "To thine own self be true"...

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 05:32 AM

I'm going by Web Developer on Firefox for the current size of your page. According to that, I have to widen the window to 1522 to get rid of the horizontal scroll bar.

I don't know about 1280 becoming more popular than 1080 but I would not go that big. And if you are targeting folk, I it's not an area of interest where I'd expect to the majority to have the latest computer equipment.

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Banjiman
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 05:48 AM

She can certainly sing...... does she do many gigs? If not how are you intending to sell her music?

In my experience, gigs are the main outlets for selling folky music (my other half has done 3 self financed CDs and I would say about 75% of her sales are at gigs) except for those who have access to significant marketing budgets/ hype. So I think it will probably be difficult for you if you rely purely on on-line sales.

But let me know if you crack it!

Cheers

Paul Arrowsmith

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 05:59 AM

I am thinking that her voice might appeal to people who might not normally find folk appealing, while still not alienating the true blue of the folk music crowd. Am I off base on this?

I'm not sure. She's a lovely clear voice, perhaps a bit classical but I think it sounds like she is singing with her "own voice"...

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 06:08 AM

I would be wary of booking anyone who seemed to have that much 'studio' treatment to her sound - Not many clubs have (OR WANT) lots of PA equipment and effects !

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Often
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 08:37 PM

"I don't know about 1280 becoming more popular than 1080 but I would not go that big. And if you are targeting folk, I it's not an area of interest where I'd expect to the majority to have the latest computer equipment."

No doubt. I have redone the website to hopefully fit better.

Rebecca Fox Music Updated Website

"As far as a voice or repertoire "appealing" to certain sets of people, well... all I would say is: sing what you really want to sing - what you enjoy singing - and let people decide for themselves. You know the saying - "To thine own self be true".."

Indeed!!

"She can certainly sing...... does she do many gigs? If not how are you intending to sell her music?"

Well we'll take whatever we can get in online sales, but yes she gigs fairly often, both solo and as a member of Foxtail Soup, plus she does folk club sessions 1-2 times a week.

"I would be wary of booking anyone who seemed to have that much 'studio' treatment to her sound - Not many clubs have (OR WANT) lots of PA equipment and effects !"

She hold up just fine on her own! :-)

Ok, so does the new page fit better for everyone?

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Lox
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 08:51 PM

I'm curious what you mean by post production help ...

... Her voice is extremely accurate and hits the notes very precisely.

If you hadn't said anything about post production i would have thought that she had an exceptional ear and exceptional vocal control, especially as there is no tremolo.

However, in light of your comments, I am compelled to ask if the help she got was from an autotune module or program ...

If not then her main assett is her accuracy and that is sufficient for matters of expression or dynamic to be overlooked.

If on the otherhand she has been autotuned, then that pretty much renders her lacking a selling point as the lack of dynamics and expression mean there isn't really anything else to keep the listeners interest.

Remember - she has to be able to perform live to be of interest to folkies ....

Autotuning can also backfire a great deal and scar a singers reputation as many listeners can feel defrauded by an autotuned voice ...

It hinges on this really in my view ...

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Lox
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 09:03 PM

Having read the Bio, it seems likely that what is on the CD is what you get live.

In which case I would make the following suggestion.

Be careful you don't go down the
celtic woman road.

Celtic woman is a product and a cliche and has a particular look and sound that has been manufactured and airbrushed to the point of utter sterilization.

Find a good bouzouki, mandola, oud, harp, banjo etc etc player.

Keep it raw and stripped down. A good voice shines better under such circumstances.

I've always preferred a Matt finish to a Glossy one.

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 09:55 PM

Regarding the display width - monitors with lots of pixels of screen width are becoming more popular, but the main reason for having more screen width is so people can have more things open at the same time in multiple windows, each of which is less than full screen. While a few people may work at "full size" most use the scaled "intermediate" size for the things they open, and 1024 wide is still a good approximation to what the majority of people will be displaying (since that's what they'll see most) in the window they normally use, even if they've got a wider monitor.

Many of the "hi def" monitors that are popular have strange aspect ratios, so in order to watch a movie you have to accept black bands at the edges or "stretch" the picture so that John Wayne looks like a 300 pound gorilla that waddles instead of swaggering (or limping depending on the age of the movie). It's not necessary, or in my opinion desirable, to try to use all the screen real estate people might have.

John

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Often
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:39 AM

"Having read the Bio, it seems likely that what is on the CD is what you get live."
CD has a bit of echo on it, but yup.


"Be careful you don't go down the
celtic woman road."

If I say 'Celtic woman' Rebecca reflexively rolls her eyes. Think we're safe there. ;-)

"Find a good bouzouki, mandola, oud, harp, banjo etc etc player."

She plays guitar, keyboards, melodion and a bunch of whistles.It's all just her.

"I've always preferred a Matt finish to a Glossy one."

Conjuring up a youth spent assembling Spitfires I'll have to agree.
;-)

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 02:21 PM

I wouldn't mind listening to a whole set or CD. One thing about the tracks and "over produced" (?) sound. Maybe the thing LF is remarking upon is the hollow sound like she is singing in a vacuum. It is not her voice (which is lovely) it is the lack of sound around it. Kind of like painting a portrait of someone but leaving the setting white around the subject. I think this is something that is done after recording straight though I wouldn't know what the technical term for it is. It can detract from the song and the singer's voice.

Or is that just what studio recordings sound like until they are embellished. If I am making no sense whatever, ignore it all except the praise parts.

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Lox
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 07:28 PM

Guitar and Piano etc are nice, but the sound is quite mellow and doesn't have the attack and timbre of the instruments I've listed above

... my whole point was to bring the voice down to earth in a way that guitar and Piano aren't quite able to do ...

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 09:20 PM

Very nice music... Problem is that "very nice music" doesn't sell all that well these days...

Sorry to be the bearer of that bad news...

But very nice music...

B~

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Often
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 05:20 PM

"Very nice music... Problem is that "very nice music" doesn't sell all that well these days...

Sorry to be the bearer of that bad news...

But very nice music..."



Well whether it's a million people buying or just you as long as whoever does get it loves it and is happy with it Rebecca will be happy.

Very happy you like the music!

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:40 PM

Rebecca has a very pleasant voice and sounds great harmonizing with herself. I agree with Lox (if I've read him correctly) that a bit of instrumental jangle would be good.

What bugs me - and this is a pet peeve of mine regarding English singers and speakers - is the apparent inability to sing two vowels in succession without inserting a "r" between them: "...and that was the last I sore of my dear". It's a minor quibble, but there it is.

Best of luck!

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Often
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 06:02 PM

"What bugs me - and this is a pet peeve of mine regarding English singers and speakers - is the apparent inability to sing two vowels in succession without inserting a "r" between them: "...and that was the last I sore of my dear". It's a minor quibble, but there it is."

I'd also include make A sound like R and R sound like A. :-)

Also, I don't suppose anyone here has a site or a blog and would be willing to give Rebecca a mention?

Subject: One Star Awake
From: Often
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 11:56 AM

My beautiful one true love, and angelically voiced folk singer Rebecca Fox of 'Foxtail Soup' fame finally has her debut solo album "One Star Awake' released.
I am incredibly proud of Rebecca and think the last year made producing this album has resulted something above and beyond the usual independent release and is a solid and enjoyable album from start to finish.

We expect to do the bulk of the album sales at shows and sessions, as you all know online sales is a tough nut to crack for a folk artist.

That being said, it is a great effort and a sincere effort. Well actually everything about Rebecca is sincere.. and very much so her music, so I hope at least some of you would take a chance on supporting her.
I am very confident that the enjoyment you will receive will far surpass the £10 that will be taken out of your royal treasury to purchase it. Rebecca even covers the postage herself to anywhere in the world.

Here is her official site where you can hear a couple of tracks done up as youtube videos. You can get the album there through PayPal, so you will know it is safe and secure!

Rebecca Fox Music Website

or if you are feeling bold, here is the direct paypal link..

One Star Awake on PayPal

I think this is a great album but really looking forward on hearing some feedback from people who have got it. Im pretty confident thought that all of you who get it will be quite happy with it!!

Let me know if you have any questions!

Subject: RE: One Star Awake: new recording from Rebecca Fox
From: Often
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 07:17 PM

Just curious, but is anyone considering giving it a go?

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Often
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 10:40 AM

Wow I started a new post about Rebecca's CD coming out and you can hear a pin drop. Thought by now there would have been at least one well wisher..

---

Threads combined. The general idea is that you're not supposed to start two threads on more-or-less the same subject, especially when those threads are running at the same time. It confuses people and splits the discussion, and may be the reason why you didn't get comments on the second thread.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:07 AM

Well, she's obviously a lot better than I am so who am I to comment?

Nonetheless, While I admire it, for a reason I can't put a finger on, I don't like it.

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: BTNG
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:16 AM

Well, I love Rebecca Fox's voice, love the website (nothing wrong with it at all, at least not on my computer, and Foxtail Soup definitely deserve to be more widely known
two very enthusiastic thumbs up here

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Banjiman
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:18 AM

"Wow I started a new post about Rebecca's CD coming out and you can hear a pin drop. Thought by now there would have been at least one well wisher.. "


Have you ever gone on to anyone else's "New CD" thread (who you didn't know) and randomly wished them well?

Subject: RE: One Star Awake: new recording from Rebecca Fox
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:52 AM

I do hope you get lots of sales. From my own experience of producing my own (and other people's) stuff, you just have to be patient in these things and let time take its course.

I think she has an excellent voice but if I'm honest, it's not my cup of tea. I've had a good listen to the videos on the website, on more than one occasion, and I find it all a little too 'churchy' and a little too full of echo for my taste. I also like live music and recordings where there's a bit of 'character', a bit of 'edge', almost a bit of 'rough'. Difficult to describe, really. But then you see, I'm knocked out by American singers like Memphis Minnie and English singers like June Tabor - to take just two at random. Music with guts.

All of which does not detract from Rebecca's talent - musical taste is a very personal thing, and you have to find the right people whose tastes match yours! Mine is just one person's viewpoint.

One final piece of advice which may or may not be welcome: it's very obvious that you adore both Rebecca and her music. Don't let that adoration blind you to a sensible and realistic view of the marketplace and the commercial practicalities. The music business is a funny old business, and it's not always the good, the loved and the beautiful who go places! :-)

Subject: RE: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Often
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 04:08 PM

"Nonetheless, While I admire it, for a reason I can't put a finger on, I don't like it."

Nothing wrong with that, just means your tastes go elsewhere. Appreciate you giving it a chance.


"Well, I love Rebecca Fox's voice, love the website (nothing wrong with it at all, at least not on my computer, and Foxtail Soup definitely deserve to be more widely known
two very enthusiastic thumbs up here"

Thank you!! :-) :-)

"Have you ever gone on to anyone else's "New CD" thread (who you didn't know) and randomly wished them well?"

Not so much here at mudcat, but yes I certainly have.

Subject: RE: One Star Awake: new recording from Rebecca Fox
From: Often
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 04:18 PM

"I do hope you get lots of sales. From my own experience of producing my own (and other people's) stuff, you just have to be patient in these things and let time take its course.

I think she has an excellent voice but if I'm honest, it's not my cup of tea. I've had a good listen to the videos on the website, on more than one occasion, and I find it all a little too 'churchy' and a little too full of echo for my taste. I also like live music and recordings where there's a bit of 'character', a bit of 'edge', almost a bit of 'rough'. Difficult to describe, really. But then you see, I'm knocked out by American singers like Memphis Minnie and English singers like June Tabor - to take just two at random. Music with guts.

All of which does not detract from Rebecca's talent - musical taste is a very personal thing, and you have to find the right people whose tastes match yours! Mine is just one person's viewpoint.

One final piece of advice which may or may not be welcome: it's very obvious that you adore both Rebecca and her music. Don't let that adoration blind you to a sensible and realistic view of the marketplace and the commercial practicalities. The music business is a funny old business, and it's not always the good, the loved and the beautiful who go places! :-)"



I think that is all very sound advice, but if we cant get to where we are going as who we are, then we don't want to be there. What's the point if only some construct based on yourself gets to enjoy it?
While yes we would hope this would do well, there is certainly no desire for fame and fortune.

I just think her music deserves a chance to be exposed to the world. Come what may of it.

Patience is of course a difficult thing to maintain..

Subject: RE: Rebecca Fox CD: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Often
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:47 PM

"Threads combined. The general idea is that you're not supposed to start two threads on more-or-less the same subject, especially when those threads are running at the same time. It confuses people and splits the discussion, and may be the reason why you didn't get comments on the second thread."

Ok didnt comment on this before, but yes that makes sense. I maybe get waylaid a little in my enthusiasm. :-P

I must also say that there have been a lot of very useful comments here, and it is all very much appreciated.

:-)

Subject: RE: Rebecca Fox CD: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Often
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:20 AM

Ok and for those who might have been just a little bit curious you can now listen to Rebecca's entire album on Bandcamp.

One Star Awake on Bandcamp

Subject: RE: Rebecca Fox CD: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:30 AM

It's not my cup of tea!
I don't like the "singing lessons" that come through with the self-conscious forming of the vowels/words.
And, has been pointed out already, there is far too much "presence" on her voice.
She will appeal to lovers of Haley Westenra, however.

Subject: RE: Rebecca Fox CD: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: GUEST,Oh please
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:31 AM

Is Mudcat the place for this endless self promotion?
To try and keep jumping this to the top of the thread list is tedious to say the least.

Subject: RE: Rebecca Fox CD: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Often
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:05 AM

"Is Mudcat the place for this endless self promotion?
To try and keep jumping this to the top of the thread list is tedious to say the least."

Well self promotion would be my own music, which this isnt.
As far as jumping to the top of the thread list, I was asked to keep it all to one thread by the powers that be.
Other than that it is a chance to listen (like it or not) for free. How on earth is that a crime?

Rebecca has been making music since she was a young girl, and for most of that time it has been trad folk music, and she sings at and helps run sessions every week at cost to herself, never mind for free, and supports other local musicians and local folk culture and so I don't see how it should be an issue that she has an album or that her partner might want to draw attention to it, so people can listen and even possibly (God forbid!) buy a track or two or even the whole album?
I mean really now,are you only legitimate as a folk artist if you never make a penny? If you don't like her music, that is fine, and I am sorry if me supporting my partner offends you, but with all due respect please get off your high horse.
and as I said, the whole thing is there for free.
I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I just want to be treated fairly and with common decency. Is that a fair request?

Subject: RE: Rebecca Fox CD: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Banjiman
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:12 AM

Absolutely, Often.

No one is forced to read the thread...... or have a listen. Don't be put off by someone in a grumpy mood!

Promotion is allowed on Mudcat, and don't you hate it when people hide behind guest postings?

Paul

Subject: RE: Rebecca Fox CD: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:28 AM

Often - Mudcat is a free forum. Post what you want when you want, within the few rules which exist. We even have a special thread called "SHAMELESS PROMOTION" - feel free to use it!

What you will get is peoples' opinions - good, bad and indifferent, as I'm sure you'll agree. And, as Banjiman says above, don't give too much credence to GUESTs of the 'Oh please' persuasion, hiding behind pusillanimous anonymity.

Subject: RE: Rebecca Fox CD: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 09:26 AM

I agree with the Will Fly in that she needs to go with more "attack" to her singing and more passion to reflect the lyric content. Her presentation today, for me, is more likely to find application in St. Pauls Cathedral.

Subject: RE: Rebecca Fox CD: Opinions and Commentary Request.
From: Often
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 01:50 AM

"Absolutely, Often.

No one is forced to read the thread...... or have a listen. Don't be put off by someone in a grumpy mood!

Promotion is allowed on Mudcat, and don't you hate it when people hide behind guest postings?"

Thank you! I guess some people can get a little mean spirited, but I'd prefer to focus my energy elsewhere. As far as guest posting, well I wont judge either way.

"Often - Mudcat is a free forum. Post what you want when you want, within the few rules which exist. We even have a special thread called "SHAMELESS PROMOTION" - feel free to use it!

What you will get is peoples' opinions - good, bad and indifferent, as I'm sure you'll agree. And, as Banjiman says above, don't give too much credence to GUESTs of the 'Oh please' persuasion, hiding behind pusillanimous anonymity."

I think there has been some great feedback here so no I wont let a few bad apples chase me away. :-)
As far as the 'shameless promotion' section.. hmmn might go check that out now! :-D

"I agree with the Will Fly in that she needs to go with more "attack" to her singing and more passion to reflect the lyric content. Her presentation today, for me, is more likely to find application in St. Pauls Cathedral."

Well, she did sing in a Church choir.. but would suggest that she is actually somewhere between the two extremes, and is in fact (and as she always is), herself.

Not everyone is going to be a fan, but appreciate people giving a listen and some feedback, and who knows maybe some might not like the whole thing, but might find that one song worth the $1 download?