Oi - mate - can you play...

Subject: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 06:42 AM

We've all been there, haven't we? You're giving a polished, considered, artistic presentation of your personal musical skills - when some bod comes up and asks for something totally inappropriate.

I'm sure this has been discussed here before but the topic was rekindled for me by a conversation at an open mic last night. Dave, the organiser was reminiscing about seeing Bert Jansch playing in a pub a few years ago. Up came the bod with ,"Oi, mate, can you play..." (whatever it might have been). Poor old Bert - one of Britain's greatest - and he still had to put up with the same crap as the rest of us mere mortals.

The stupidest request I've ever had - when playing solo guitar in a pub one night - was to play "Duelling Banjos". My revenge, in these instances, is to say "no", let the person walk away a bit - and then just play a quick fragment of it...

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Mr Happy
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 07:01 AM

....& then you play it.

10 mins later, they come to you & say 'When are you going to do n?'

Duh!!

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 07:26 AM

"I could but then I would have to kill you".

"I could but I am a gentleman".....

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Maryrrf
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 07:41 AM

My favorite is "Can you play this song...Um I think it's Irish, but it might be Scottish. It's about this girl named Mary or Nancy or somebody like that. I can't remember the title or who wrote it but it was performed by this folk group - can't remember their name. It was a love song. I'll hum you a little of it" (Hums tunelessly and you can't even hear them above the noise in the pub). So can you play that one for me?

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Johnny J
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 07:43 AM

Even more annoying is when they call my mandolin a "banjo"!

Also, they often ask for the "music from Deliverance" and don't even have the courtesy or knowledge to call the tune by its name.

I think movies have a lot to answer for....... :-(

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 07:53 AM

The number of folks who come up to Hunt and ask for "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" is astonishing. Strangely, no one has ever asked me for "Lady of Spain" when I'm toting my PA!

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: alex s
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:15 AM

"Do you know 'The Wild Rover'?" - No, mate, never heard of it........

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:33 AM

I keep getting asked if I can sing a song I've never heard of called 'Somewhere Else'.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:34 AM

It's a companion song to "Over The Hills And Far Away".

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:34 AM

For me the Classic is (as I tune my Five String Banjo) can you do Leaning on a Lampost

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:36 AM

And your revenge is - to play it.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:48 AM

Tune? Banjo? Shome mishtake shurely.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:56 AM

That's accordion to the circumstances

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 09:05 AM

We did a floorspot once and the MC said: "You can finish the night as long as you do Danny Boy." We declined, but got the penultimate slot instead, though joined heartily in as everyone in the club took the stage to finish the night with a mass jam on Danny Boy in D which was quite amazing.

Someone asked us for Duelling Banjos and the reply we gave was 'Sorry - we've only got the one.'

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 09:20 AM

PS - What is it with Banjo Jokes anyway? Or folk jokes in general? Is it a social-bonding thing? I must add that I do have a sense of humour, just can't see anything remotely funny in the almost ceremonial recital of the same dour old cliches (such as Richard Bridge does a few post earlier). Something original would be nice, but every time the banjo comes out of its case it's the same old same-old (...and that's before you start to play! Boom-boom!)

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 09:25 AM

Well you should hear what cirttern players have to but up with (no, I prefer standing up).

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: BobKnight
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 09:39 AM

This happened about 20 years ago when I was playing in a country band. After every second or third song the same girl would come up and request a "Danial O'Donnel" song. Since we didn't perform such a well-hacked repertoire as D O'D, we had to refuse. The next request was greeted with, "Well, tell me something he's written and I'll sing it," which kinda stumped her for about ten minutes. Then she came back again. "You're a really big D O'D fan," I said to her, and she eagerly nodded her head. "Bet you have all his records at home?" and again she agreed, at which point I said," Well, instead of bothering us every five minutes, why don't you f*** off home and listen to them?" Luckily, she burst out laughing. I've mellowed a lot since then I have to admit.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,blogward
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 09:48 AM

Duelling Banjos? I suggest playing 'Copperhead Road' and assuring them that's the original version.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 09:53 AM

There was a irish brickie, pissed out his head, in Leipzig...stood about 30cm. from me and demanded 'The Wild Rover'.....I do sing 'The Wild Rover', but not THAT version.........I can't remember now if I sang it(THAT version) or whether I rapped it........Maybe I took pity on him- a long way from home, couldn't speak german, no friends apart from Guinness......

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 10:00 AM

In pubs you get asked for:-

Apache
I am the music man
The Birdie Song
and i used to get asked for Penny Arcade

In Irish pubs:-

Sean South from Garryowen and not to play ANY rebel songs at all - usually by the same group of people.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 10:50 AM

Or you do play it and afterwards they come up and say "Why didn't you play it like so-and-so?"

Answer: "Because I'm not f*****g so-and-so!" Just try not to say it out loud...

Pete

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 11:06 AM

Warning! This post contains praise for two banjo players , albeit one in part only!

The reason many people criticise the tuning of banjos is because most banjos are out of tune. It's an inherent design defect. The tension on one string affects the depression of the skin which affects the tension on all the other strings. It's a bit like tuning a floating bridge divebomb tremolo guitar but at least those come with locking nuts and vernier tuners on the floating bridge to make life easier - and it's still wise to go round all 6 strings 3 times. A very few players using plastic skins tightened up very very tight are less affected.

The other reasons people criticise them (which I didn't do here yet) are: -

1. The sound is usually horrid - a violent attack with no tail or sustain. Banjitars (banjo neck on guitar body - Joe Stead has one made by Peter Abnett and it sounds quite nice) - are better. This, I concede, however, is a matter of personal preference.
2. Most players use them to dominate the soundscape rather than to commingle with it. There are a few exceptions - Phil Birkin is one (although his old-fashioned long-neck appears to be a bugger to tune) and that bloke with the bright blue eyes seen for example at Broadstairs - I always forget his name, it's an unusual one for a man, Tracey, or Stacey, or something - has a melodious 5 string banjo made for him in Ireland that tunes and which he plays with sensitivity and impeccable taste, no matter how drunk, from a whisper to a cannon-shot. It even does sustain when played gently.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 11:39 AM

because most banjos are out of tune

God knows there can be little excuse in these days of electronic tuners, though I do admit there will always be a wayward harmonic resonance that might sound odd to certain ears, but that's different from being entirely OOT (expressed in my native Geordie tongue as well as a serendipitous acronym). The stability of modern banjo heads is beyond doubt (we use Remo plastic fiberskyns on both banjo & frame drums - note: frame drums not bodhrans) - though I've no doubt you speak from long years of bitter experience. What irks me most in this respect is that WE FOLKIES are supposed to cherish such earthy homegrown irregular filthy resonances which are the heart and soul of the Banjo (and bagpipes / hurdy-gurdy / melodeon &c.)

The sound is usually horrid - a violent attack with no tail or sustain

IYHO, Richard, which is fair enough, but the delight of a banjo lies in its multiplicity of timbres each of which is unique to the instrument and its many & various playing styles - and the players thereof - from piano to forte and all points in between. The sound which so offends you just happens to be one of my chief delights.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 11:59 AM

Maybe that's why early banjos were fretless - easier to compensate for dodgy tuning. I remember in the 60s having to send to America for a Weatherking head after I got fed up with wrestling with wet goatskin.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Ernest
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 12:11 PM

Richard,

banjos are instruments that were invented by black slaves and became very popular with people of the working class.

And now you are dissing them. Shame on you!!!!

;0)
Ernest

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 12:37 PM

We once got asked to play the theme from the "South Bank Show". Very sophisticated in Aberdeen.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 02:43 PM

The reason many people criticise the tuning of banjos is because most banjos are out of tune. It's an inherent design defect.

Many banjos may be out of tune, but an inherent design defect it is not. It's all down to the neck seating in the pan, skin tension, quality of strings, scale length, action, bridge placement - and the person playing like it. A bit like other stringed instruments, really.

I went to see Debbie McClatchy recently. Her banjo playing was beautiful - immaculate, bang in tune, sophisticated - and the tone of the instrument was clear and sweet. And if you want ultra sophisticated and modern banjo sounds, have a listen to Bela Flack. End of my thread digression...

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 03:21 PM

Or there's the person who asks you to sing the song you just did 5 minutes ago.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: redhorse
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 03:21 PM

"The reason many people criticise the tuning of banjos is because most banjos are out of tune. It's an inherent design defect."

Speaking as a banjo player, there is an element of truth here. Banjos don't have compensated bridges, so with three plain strings and one wound (usually), if the bridge is set to give correct intonation for the first and fourth strings, the intonation on the third string is probably out.

I use a moon bridge which helps, and also sometimes do a fine tune by ear after electronic tuning, but it still can be a bit approximate.

I also find that intonation drifts out as the strings age, so unless you compensate by regularly moving the bridge(or replace strings a lot more often than I do), yes you do end up with that traditional off-key banjo sound

nick

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Diva
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 03:34 PM

Once, many moons ago at a local folk club someone asked me to sing the Wild Rover.....so of course I obliged with the minor key version which I had just learned......yep....they did the usual as mentioned earlier, ach weel.....

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 04:05 PM

Same phenomenon appears a number of places.

My wife worked for years as a librarian--main, downtown Seattle Public Library--maybe millions of books.

Occasionally someone would come in and say, "I'm looking for this book. I can't recall the title and I don't remember who the author is, but it's about this big" (hand gestures) "and it has a blue cover."

Yeah, right!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 04:07 PM

I was once playing a bar gig where a bachelor party was infesting the first bunch of tables. Between passing out gag gifts (if you get my drift, and I think you do) and drinking a lot, the future groom asked if I knew any Simon & Garfunkel. I didn't so I said sorry, I don't know any. Every twenty minutes after that he was loudly say, is he going to play any Simon & Garfunkel or what? After the sixth repeat of that, I did say I didn't know any effing Simon & Garfunkel, which did seem to shut them up.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 04:46 PM

banjos are instruments that were invented by black slaves and became very popular with people of the working class.

Just like folk music was invented by the Irish and I suppose...

(Funny sort of grin to indicate that I don't really mean what I say but thick people on the Mudcat may not understand that. Or do I?)

DtG

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 05:47 PM

Everyone's heard Billy Connolly's "Needle of Death" story I take it?






Not quite everyone? Oh, go on then.

The story goes, Billy Connolly - back when he was a working folkie - was doing a gig and generally going down OK, except that somebody kept calling for "Needle of Death". Not only was this song not in his setlist, he didn't actually know it. The first couple of times, he ignored the guy and just did the next song he was planning to do. Then they called out "Neeeedle of Deeeath!" again, so he paused and said "Sorry, pal, I don't know Needle of Death" before going into the next song. At the end of it: "Neeeedle of Deeeath! Play Neeeeedle of Deeeeeath!" "Look, pal, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I don't actually know Needle of Death, OK?" End of next song: "Neeeedle of Deeeath! Neeeedle of Deeeath!" He tried making a joke of it, he tried taking the piss, but nothing worked: all the way through the gig, after every song, there would be that voice from the back of the room: "Neeeedle of Deeeath! Play Neeeeedle of Deeeeeath!" So, he got through the set, then he got off stage and went to seek out this idiot who'd done his best to ruin his act. He found him and (being quite a big bloke) pinned him up against the back wall and explained his position forcefully: "Look, pal. I don't know what your problem is, but will you PLEASE stop asking for Needle Of F*cking Death. I am NOT going to play Needle Of F*cking Death, because I DON'T KNOW THE F*CKING SONG. OK?"

It turned out it was the promoter.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,roderick warner
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 06:07 PM

As a busker for too many years, many stories of idiotic requests.
My favourite one was when playing once on a pitch on Carnaby Street circa 1967 with the Earl of Mustard tapdancing and someone came up and said: 'Can you do any Pink Floyd numbers?' Acoustic guitar/vocals and deranged tap-dancer - if only we had tried... Can't remember what we went into but it wasn't 'Set your controls for the heart of the sun' or anything approximate - but he bunged us anyway...

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: alex s
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 07:02 PM

Dave the Gnome - take note: there are no "thick people" on the Mudcat....

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 07:30 PM

God, what a bunch of po-faced, snobbish, self-regarding twits this thread has thrown up. If you know it and you get asked for it, why not just play/sing it. You don't have to do it all night. Some of you lot remind me of a great joke that I heard Marilyn Middleton-Pollock come out with. "You're a folk singer, are you? OK then - depress me!" Once or twice an evening it doesn't hurt to ditch "the message" and spread a little happiness instead.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Bugsy
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 08:38 PM

Or when they ask you for a song that you are familiar with but don't play, so you say "No I don't know that one" and the Bastards sing it at you.

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:10 AM

Well Steve, the point of the post is that it's not about folk-singing at all - it's about the incongruity of being asked to play something that is utterly at odds with what you're obviously doing - and with what you're obviously capable of doing. It's not snobbish at all - it's quite funny most of the time - and good for a lot of jokes.

Life is full of little ironies - and sometimes they're worth a small celebration.

As a response to your rather ill-tempered post, let me relate a story about an odd gig I once did...

Many years ago I got a telephone call from the landlord of a pub one evening. The band he'd booked had let him down at the last moment - could I help him out with some music. I said it would be impossible to get the rest of my band along at such short notice and, in any case, I had no PA - just my electric guitar and a guitar amp. So, to please him, I popped along with amp and guitar and played some jazz and blues. The beer flowed... One of the blokes at the bar called out "Play Apache!" I smiled and said it wasn't really possible - and then he made the mistake of saying, "Bet you any money you can't play Apache" - a cry taken up by his mates at the bar. My reply was: "Ten pounds - from each of you - says I can play Apache. Ten pounds to each of you - from me - if I can't".

What they didn't know was that I played in a rock'n roll trio - no second rhythm guitar - so I was quite used to playing all the lead and lots of rhythm fills... I got my ten quids - six of them!

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:44 AM

I walked out of a music hardware shop in Brixton in London , with my new Beringer mixer-amp , some drunk swaggers up to me a can of tennents super in his hand ..... " oi mate... give us a tune !"


"F~#k OFF!" ... worked an absolute treat for me.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: banjoman
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 05:17 AM

No matter where I am if I get the banjo out of its case someone will ask for "That banjo tune - you know the one I mean" I usually say I dont know it or that it needs 2 banjos. However, recently we played an afternoon set for some disabled people and afterwards a lady came up and said that her husband who is paralyzed as a result of a severe stroke was disapointed that I had not played "That tune" and it would make his day if we would. How can you resist a request like that so I played it doing the repeat bits an octave up - I think it made his day -and mine

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 05:21 AM

I came out of one of the local supermarkets one time carrying a cardboard box to hold my shopping. Jackie Daly was on the other side of the street and shouted across 'come on Peter, give us a tune on the box'

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 05:38 AM

See, this is where Marian Call wins. Most people know her through Paul & Storm, and there's a running heckle to them which is "PLAY FREEBIRD!" Which Storm will call out and say "No Paul! Noooo" while Paul goes, "You want Free Bird. YOU WANT FREE BIRD!? HERE'S ONE FREE BIRD *sticks one finger up* AND HERE'S ANOTHER *sticks up another*".

Somehow this continued into Ms Call's stage presence, to the point her latest album has a song called Free Bird, which she wrote so she had a perfect response to people requesting it.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 05:49 AM

.....and nowhere the classic retort," No, but hum a few bars and I'll fake it!"

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 06:05 AM

I get away with that a lot, but I'm a guitarist at a tune session. It's kind of my job to fake it.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 06:09 AM

I think the best response to requests for "Duelling Banjos" is Geoff the Duck's version - in which he uses kazoo for the guitar responses!

As to the Wild Rover I think the Banana Boat song version is quite fun.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:10 AM

Someone once asked a wel-known female Scottish singer to sing "Flower O'Scotland". Her reply was "Listen pal, ye're TALKIN' tae the Flower O Scotland"!

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:52 AM

when people ask me do I know the wild rover, I generally reply yes i do i saw him this morning and he had a hangover

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Diva
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:11 AM

Aye yir right enough Steve, it's the cheery wee numbers like The Wild Rover, a song about alocholism, that spead a little happiness. Dae ye know Micky's Warning..its a real jolly number?

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,Geoff he Duck
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:13 AM

Don't know where my cookie has disappeared...
I was wondering whether to comment, but seeing as Richard has brought it up here goes the story...

As Leadfingers almost said, wandering around with a banjo, you get aske the two "Do you play...?" questions.

Leaning on a lamp - I never was that much into George Formby, and try to explain that he played a totally different instrument that looks similar, but is much smaller and works in a different way.

Duelling Banjos. Same instrument, but needs a second one - guitar, which also needs a second person - There's just one of me. SILLY QUESTION!

- unless, of course, the person asking the question is some young lad holding a guitar, who expects you to play something extremely flash on your banjo while he strums a few chords in the background, then goes off claiming half the credit.

                ************************
Start of story...

I don't actually object to Duelling banjos as a tune, but I play Clawhammer style banjo and not Bluegrass. One friend who does play bluegrass used to occasionally rope me in to do the backup.

As said above, there is always some freeloader with a guitar wanting to profit from the banjo player's hard work and expertise.

It isn't the fact of the two questions, but the constant repetition of them that starts to get on the nerves.

One day I cracked...

I'd heard them one time too many...

I thought "Sod 'em"

There had to be a solution.





I sat in my room and thought...

An answer came into my head...

I was quite capable of playing a backup accompaniment to the duet, but that didn't cover all the bluegrass "leaping fingers" bits. How could I produce an identical effect of notes flying out from apparently random direction?

Inspiration hit! - Kazoo...

In my earlier life I had achieved Grade 7 in Kazoo Studies, so was well placed for musical acrobatics.

I found a note, and tuned up my Kazoo. As mentioned in earlier postings, it isn't necessary to tune a banjo, so a good cup of tea was all that I needed to complete the operation.

A couple of hours later, the bud of an idea was blossoming into the delicate petals of a musical masterpiece.....

I took it out, played it.....






people laughed....







Quack!
GtD.