Oi - mate - can you play...

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 12:34 AM

Sorry, Elmore; don't know that one. But if you'll just hum it...

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Elmore
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 09:31 PM

Oops. Sorry. Drunk.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Elmore
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 09:24 PM

No,no a thousand times no! I'd rather see my life blood spilling.I'll sing anything, even "God Save the King", but I'll never sing any Bob Dylan - Eric Bogle

king",

i

i'll sing

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 08:31 PM

Nice one, Don, but would you play Over The Hills And Far Away? :-)

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 07:59 PM

When gigging with Clive Lever, we pray for somebody to say "Oy mate, can you play The Wild Rover?"

He gets two or three of Clive's hundred or so biteingly witty versions of the Wild Rover, in the style (perfectly reproduced) of Johnny Cash, or Louis Armstrong, Ray Charles, Chuck Berry, Elvis................

Three will shut up the most persistent, and leave everybody else curled up laughing.

Can't do much wrong after that!

I have a policy regarding requests. If I know the song and the punters are paying to get in..........You know the saying "He who pays the piper........

If it's a charity gig, I'll do it also, but if I'm performing buckshee as a favour............I'll probably still do it. I might get asked back, for money!

In short, I always perform any request, as long as it doesn't end with the word "off!"

Don T.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Boston Bass
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 02:44 PM

From Jay Turner...

Can you play something we know?

(Jay)....Better that we play something that WE know!

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: davyr
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 09:48 AM

Just in case there's somebody on here who hasn't already seen this (sorry about the brief ad before the sketch starts):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1YNEtaHbzA

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 09:30 AM

LOL!

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 08:50 AM

I thought Al Porcine was an American-Italian actor.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 08:36 AM

nobody would go to a classical concert and in the middle of an overture call out give us holsts planets.

Ooh, sounds fun!

Oy, Kennedy, leave off the Polish jazz nonsense, give us the 4 Seasons!

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 08:32 AM

"Existentially its your choice - no one holds a gun to your head and says - you've got to be a folksinger."

I suppose there are worse ways to earn a living - I once knew someone who was a pig wanker (honestly).I think his actual title was AI Porcine Semen Collector.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 07:48 AM

I am neither a coward or a charlatan, and yes I gave up the day job 35 years ago, and earn my living through playing and teaching music.
What I cant stand are generalised statements denigrating   any kind of folk music, be it trad or contemporary , irish, english, american.
let every performer be allowed to play what they wish and not be intimidated by loud mouth drunks who want the birdie song or whatever their alcohol besotted brains demand.
it is all about respect for performers, nobody would go to a classical concert and in the middle of an overture call out give us holsts planets.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Tigger the Tiger
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 07:36 AM

I thought Pete Seeger handled requests rather well. People who went to his concerts knew they could run up on stage during intermisssion and leave a note with a request. I had fun when he was in an outlying area,as people did not know to do this. I would put MY requests up there;people thought I was nuts as usual. He would just then quietly choose whatever he felt like playing.Easy for him as he had such a repertoire. Quite a gent.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 07:35 AM

Just pull a Martin Simpson and make it seem like you're just showing off when you're tuning.

Damn him being being better than me.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: TheSnail
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 07:28 AM

Why, I even had a Watkins Copicat and a Hofner Verithin.

Can't work out if those are shoes or haircuts.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 07:20 AM

Last night I got asked if I could play any Bach.

I had to say no, but gave them some Handel, Widor and a bit of Pietro Yon.

There's the old story about the punter who wanted "That's what you are".
Eventually when asked to sing a bit of it he gave the first line - "Unforgettable, that's what you are".

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 06:20 AM

The professional folk musician is a comparatively recent (although not unwelcome) phenomenon.

I'd say Pros and Amnatuers are exact contempories myself.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 06:16 AM

Not so much of an overstatement, Mr Leveller - more complete opinionated bollocks. Its a dialect I'm getting better in, as I get older.

But yes, it does concentrate the mind wonderfully on the job in hand of trying to entertain a roomful of people, when its your principal source of revenue. You learn what is the sinew of 'folk' music, and what is just musical necrophilia with stuff that should be left in a museum.


If the nobs running folk radio won't play you and the other lot the journos won't review you, you don't get heard - you don't get a reputation, you don't get booked - so you have to develop a bread and butter gig (or two over a lifetime). That is if you are to pay for nice guitars and new guitars strings and spend a long time every day perfecting your art.

Existentially its your choice - no one holds a gun to your head and says - you've got to be a folksinger. And when you've devoted your life to it - there's still some folk who say - well that's not folk music. But for my generation - that was certainly the option. With these folk degrees and Radio 2 competitions, and the web - I like to think its better for this generation coming up.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: paul vaughan
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 04:45 AM

I had a good 'un a couple of years ago, some mouthy kid at the bar shouted out " 'ere mate, can't you do summfin we know?"
So I gave him a couple of verses of " The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round......"
He wasn't impressed but I enjoyed it, hehe!

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 03:55 AM

"To be honest, I don't think you've got a clue about folk music until you give the day job up."

Don't you think that's just a teeny-weeny bit of an overstatement, Al? Folk music is essentially the music of the people - amateurs. The professional folk musician is a comparatively recent (although not unwelcome) phenomenon.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 03:47 AM

hands up all those around here who have given up the day job.

Me! Me! Well... I AM retired...

Actually, in the days when I did earn a living from music alone (in the '80s), I played in a 1950s-style rock'n roll trio and, when I say 1950s, I mean it. Nothing later than 1961 or 1962 - pre-Beatles and Stones, really. We had an extensive repertoire of the period - around 200 numbers - we dressed to suit the period, etc. Why, I even had a Watkins Copicat and a Hofner Verithin. We got bookings through an agent and were fully advertised as a 1950s band.

We did occasionally get the "Oi - mate -" question. And we we steadfastly refused to play anything beyond the repertoire - not out of pettishness, I should add - we simply just didn't know any non-'50s stuff well enough to do it properly.

Agents, of course, can be greedy buggers who will make a quick buck by getting bands to do inappropriate gigs - just for the percentage. On a couple of occasions, ours booked us for '60s nostalgia nights - quite a different scene - we turned up to play in front of people dressed in Beatle wigs, flares, psychedelia, etc - and they got very ratty at first when we didn't play any Beatles stuff or Stones stuff. We couldn't blame them - told them to complain to the agent as we'd taken the booking in good faith, etc., etc.

All good fun, eh?

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 12:17 AM

···"Your generalisation about folk singers is inaccurate, and is nearly as a wild inaccuracy as the person, who made the following statement on the session forum
"Well, to be specific, most traditional Irish music is rubbish because most traditional Irish musicians are rubbish.
And most traditional english music is just plain rubbish."···
,.,.,.,.
Agree with your points in general, Dick. Easy for people to get carried away and overstate things.

But one should always have at back of mind distinguished science-fiction writer Theodore Sturgeon's [obviously ironic - up to a point!] Principle Of Science Fiction:- "90% of Science Fiction is rubbish; — because 90% of everything is rubbish".

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:49 PM

To be honest, I don't think you've got a clue about folk music until you give the day job up.

What makes people sing. what makes them dance, what makes them listen..how CAN you understand, if they sing, dance, listen - just out of good manners? Or because someone in Froots or the Observer says they're 'worth listening to'.

If you're a pro, someone comes up and says, oi mate - can you play?

You listen. Unless he's a card carrying twat.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: terrier
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:48 PM

"Can you do any Billie Jo Spears", "No, who's he?"
Sometimes you just gotta' admit defeat..

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:17 PM

what harm is the odd Wild Rover or two going to do

Off the top of my head: once you've done one song they know, some punters may think it's a request show and ask you to do Streets of London, Black Velvet Band etc - or for that matter Angels, Chasing Cars etc; punters may stop paying attention to the stuff they don't know, thinking there'll be one of the good ones along in a minute; and if you go down well, you may get asked back on the understanding you'll do a set full of Streets of London, Chasing Cars etc. Careers have ended on less.

It's your gig. You can do a couple of crowd-pleasers good-naturedly then back off. You're in charge. They'll forgive you for not doing more if the gig's good enough. As for careers, hands up all those around here who have given up the day job.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Bugsy
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:11 PM

Quoting GUEST, Peter Laban,
"I came out of one of the local supermarkets one time carrying a cardboard box to hold my shopping. Jackie Daly was on the other side of the street and shouted across 'come on Peter, give us a tune on the box' "

You don't share a passing resemblance to the inimitable TED EGAN , "World Champion Lager Carton Player" do you Peter?

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Bugsy
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:02 PM

I really don't mind playing any request, If i know it.

The worst request I ever got was during a folk night in a rather raucus pub when a drunk came up to me at the end of a song and asked if he could put the Juke box on! Now that really is taking the piss.

CHeers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:19 PM

I get really offended by that "Why do you have to tune" crap. I know several players who don't. Oh Jesus the cacophony that results. Indeed I sometimes don't myself, because of the shibboleth. I always regret it afterwards.

GO AND GET SOME SODDING EARS AND RECOGNISE THAT THE PEOPLE YOU DENIGRATE (I KNOW WHO YOU REALLY MEAN) ARE SOME OF THE GREATEST GUITARISTS ON THE PLANET AND WHO UNLIKE YOU YOU CLOTH EARED MORON DO NOT PLAY OUT OF TUNE.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: olddude
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 06:53 PM

LOL but when do it it sounds more like stairway to hell ... gotta have the chops to sing that one ...

Now had they asked me for some Eagles yah I can ... one time a guy ask for Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen. Freddy Mercury I am not

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 06:44 PM

Gosh - I'd forgotten I even knew NoD! Must try it out on fiddle at my local sesiun.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 06:22 PM

what harm is the odd Wild Rover or two going to do

Off the top of my head: once you've done one song they know, some punters may think it's a request show and ask you to do Streets of London, Black Velvet Band etc - or for that matter Angels, Chasing Cars etc; punters may stop paying attention to the stuff they don't know, thinking there'll be one of the good ones along in a minute; and if you go down well, you may get asked back on the understanding you'll do a set full of Streets of London, Chasing Cars etc. Careers have ended on less.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:39 PM

I do enough of Stairway to Heaven to make them wonder why they asked in the first place...

Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:38 PM

Gosh, my italics started way too late there. Sorry!


Well Steve, the point of the post is that it's not about folk-singing at all - it's about the incongruity of being asked to play something that is utterly at odds with what you're obviously doing - and with what you're obviously capable of doing. It's not snobbish at all - it's quite funny most of the time - and good for a lot of jokes.

Life is full of little ironies - and sometimes they're worth a small celebration.

As a response to your rather ill-tempered post

Not ill-tempered, Will, but aghast at the apparent unanimity of posters to this thread (with the odd honourable exception). Dammit, you can always say you don't know it. If you do know it, it is probably at least tenuously connected to what you're doing in some way. Not everyone who comes to a folk club or gig is a member of the folkie in-crowd, and good luck to 'em. I wasn't exactly suggesting that you sell your soul to the populist devil, was I? But what harm is the odd Wild Rover or two going to do in a whole evening of the stuff that you want to do? I remind you that preciousness is an accusation frequently levelled at folkies, and not always without good reason. There's plenty of it in this thread!

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:29 PM

God, what a bunch of po-faced, snobbish, self-regarding twits this thread has thrown up. If you know it and you get asked for it, why not just play/sing it. You don't have to do it all night. Some of you lot remind me of a great joke that I heard Marilyn Middleton-Pollock come out with. "You're a folk singer, are you? OK then - depress me!" Once or twice an evening it doesn't hurt to ditch "the message" and spread a little happiness instead."
The above post suggests that we may not be spreading happiness, because we are not singing the wild rover.
Steve maybe, we might be allowed to play what we want to, rather than what some person thinks they have a right to demand, would you go up to Martin Carthy when he was playing and request him to sing the wild rover., would you be happy if you were playing your harmonica at an irish session and somebody asked you to play a totally inappropriate tune like "god save the queen" or harmonica boogie.
Steve your post,reveals a lot about yourself, and your attitude to folk singers, you clearly dont know what you are talking about if you think all folk singers do is sing depressing folk songs or sing songs with messages., of course a few folk songs are depressing[ as are some of leonard cohens songs] and yes some folk songs do have a message, but many folk songs are songs with interesting stories some have have endingsand some are a celebration of life[joy of living springs to mind]   
but your generalisation about folk singers is inaccurate

Ah, Dick, Dick, Dick, Dick, DICK. My post did not contain even the whiff of a generalisation. Carry on, old chap.



...and is nearly as a wild inaccuracy as the person, who made the following statement on the session forum
"Well, to be specific, most traditional Irish music is rubbish because most traditional Irish musicians are rubbish.

And most traditional english music is just plain rubbish."

Ah, you mean Michael Gill! Why didn't you say so! Because you're a bloody coward, that's why!

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: olddude
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:11 PM

Ever been asked if you can do "stairway to Heaven"

I have ... ya just give them that look and they go away

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:08 PM

take note: there are no "thick people" on the Mudcat....

You don't know me very well then do you Alex :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 11:18 AM

On your recommendation, Al, I certainly shall. Actually Ross Campbell sings a nice one too come to think of it...

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 10:48 AM

Sweeney, listen to Ron Kavanagh and hear the song anew! Let the scales fall from your eyes. Its a beautiful song with everything.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 10:42 AM

The Wild Rover can go in places where While Gamekeepers Lie Sleeping simply wouldn't survive

Depends how you source it; I've seen many an unaccompanied singer go arse over tit because they try to reproduce June Tabor's Macrame Beat approach. The source I would recommend is Bob Roberts on Songs of the Sailing Barges - it doesn't need folking up, but keeps its quiet dignity, and is one of a number of songs I reserve for non-folk punters because it's a lovely wee tale that never fails to put a smile on people's faces.

I would never sing Wild Rover though, even if threatened with a red hot poker. When asked (it does happen) I offer them a ready alternative: I Was a Young Man or The Rambling Comber or The Roving Journeyman great songs which you never hear enough, unlike the Wild Rover which, if I never hear again will be too soon.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 09:42 AM

Once when I was introducing the "The Trees They Do Grow High" I made a joke about it being different from most traditional songs in that only one person dies. That set off a bit of good-humoured banter with the audience, mainly joky requests for "depressing" songs and my missus shouted out "don't ask him to play Needle of Death - cos HE WILL!"

So I played it, just for her...

Pete (still in the doghouse)

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 09:39 AM

Well why not? Martin's balls wouldn't drop off, if he sang The Wild Rover. Ron Kavanagh used to do beautiful versiion of the song. really something.

After all it's a good song. Just because Clover margarine got hold of it doesn't make it bad.

Two things

1) don't despise songs or writers who help you put food on the table, and The Wild Rover can go in places where While Gamekeepers Lie Sleeping simply wouldn't survive. Some songs are like Piglet and can go out in the world, some like Pooh have to stay in Hundred Acre Wood, the Folk Club.

2) I've forgorgotten the other thing.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:31 AM

Given the amount of time some well respected names take to tune a guitar between each song, slagging off banjos is a bit rich.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:21 AM

"have have endings", should read, have happy endings

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:18 AM

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 07:30 PM

God, what a bunch of po-faced, snobbish, self-regarding twits this thread has thrown up. If you know it and you get asked for it, why not just play/sing it. You don't have to do it all night. Some of you lot remind me of a great joke that I heard Marilyn Middleton-Pollock come out with. "You're a folk singer, are you? OK then - depress me!" Once or twice an evening it doesn't hurt to ditch "the message" and spread a little happiness instead."
The above post suggests that we may not be spreading happiness, because we are not singing the wild rover.
Steve maybe, we might be allowed to play what we want to, rather than what some person thinks they have a right to demand, would you go up to Martin Carthy when he was playing and request him to sing the wild rover., would you be happy if you were playing your harmonica at an irish session and somebody asked you to play a totally inappropriate tune like "god save the queen" or harmonica boogie.
Steve your post,reveals a lot about yourself, and your attitude to folk singers, you clearly dont know what you are talking about if you think all folk singers do is sing depressing folk songs or sing songs with messages., of course a few folk songs are depressing[ as are some of leonard cohens songs] and yes some folk songs do have a message, but many folk songs are songs with interesting stories some have have endingsand some are a celebration of life[joy of living springs to mind]   
but your generalisation about folk singers is inaccurate, and is nearly as a wild inaccuracy as the person, who made the following statement on the session forum
"Well, to be specific, most traditional Irish music is rubbish because most traditional Irish musicians are rubbish.

And most traditional english music is just plain rubbish."

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,Geoff he Duck
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:13 AM

Don't know where my cookie has disappeared...
I was wondering whether to comment, but seeing as Richard has brought it up here goes the story...

As Leadfingers almost said, wandering around with a banjo, you get aske the two "Do you play...?" questions.

Leaning on a lamp - I never was that much into George Formby, and try to explain that he played a totally different instrument that looks similar, but is much smaller and works in a different way.

Duelling Banjos. Same instrument, but needs a second one - guitar, which also needs a second person - There's just one of me. SILLY QUESTION!

- unless, of course, the person asking the question is some young lad holding a guitar, who expects you to play something extremely flash on your banjo while he strums a few chords in the background, then goes off claiming half the credit.

                ************************
Start of story...

I don't actually object to Duelling banjos as a tune, but I play Clawhammer style banjo and not Bluegrass. One friend who does play bluegrass used to occasionally rope me in to do the backup.

As said above, there is always some freeloader with a guitar wanting to profit from the banjo player's hard work and expertise.

It isn't the fact of the two questions, but the constant repetition of them that starts to get on the nerves.

One day I cracked...

I'd heard them one time too many...

I thought "Sod 'em"

There had to be a solution.





I sat in my room and thought...

An answer came into my head...

I was quite capable of playing a backup accompaniment to the duet, but that didn't cover all the bluegrass "leaping fingers" bits. How could I produce an identical effect of notes flying out from apparently random direction?

Inspiration hit! - Kazoo...

In my earlier life I had achieved Grade 7 in Kazoo Studies, so was well placed for musical acrobatics.

I found a note, and tuned up my Kazoo. As mentioned in earlier postings, it isn't necessary to tune a banjo, so a good cup of tea was all that I needed to complete the operation.

A couple of hours later, the bud of an idea was blossoming into the delicate petals of a musical masterpiece.....

I took it out, played it.....






people laughed....







Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Diva
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:11 AM

Aye yir right enough Steve, it's the cheery wee numbers like The Wild Rover, a song about alocholism, that spead a little happiness. Dae ye know Micky's Warning..its a real jolly number?

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:52 AM

when people ask me do I know the wild rover, I generally reply yes i do i saw him this morning and he had a hangover

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:10 AM

Someone once asked a wel-known female Scottish singer to sing "Flower O'Scotland". Her reply was "Listen pal, ye're TALKIN' tae the Flower O Scotland"!

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 06:09 AM

I think the best response to requests for "Duelling Banjos" is Geoff the Duck's version - in which he uses kazoo for the guitar responses!

As to the Wild Rover I think the Banana Boat song version is quite fun.

Subject: RE: Oi - mate - can you play...
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 06:05 AM

I get away with that a lot, but I'm a guitarist at a tune session. It's kind of my job to fake it.