Park records manufactures a folky band

Subject: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: EmmaHartley
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 10:08 AM

http://theglamourcave.blogspot.com/2011/10/manufactured-moonshee-rising.html

Moonshee sounded lovely, but there was something I couldn't quite put my finger on...

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 10:11 AM

Oh goodie - another post leading us off to the Glamour Cave blog.

Why not contribute to the thread this time, instead of just starting it - or post more fully....

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: EmmaHartley
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 10:14 AM

What would you like to talk about, Will?

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 10:18 AM

"Is music-reading an important skill?"

Subject: RE: Park Records manufactures a folky band
From: EmmaHartley
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 10:26 AM

Confused. Do you have two logins, Will? Or is that someone else?

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 10:28 AM

No - it's someone else being sarcastic as well.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 10:39 AM

I am not Will, thank you very much. (He's a much better guitar player than I am.

I actually posted to that thread which YOU started and then to which you never returned. I wondered what the intent of that thread was just as I wonder what the intent of this one is.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: EmmaHartley
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 10:50 AM

It's whatever you want it to be, guest 999.

I went to see Moonshee the other night and thought it was interesting, so I wrote about it.

What I'm expecting is to be told that there have been other folky manufactured bands in the past...

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: EmmaHartley
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 10:52 AM

Anyway. I did return to the other thread. I just didn't write anything on it. Is that OK?

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:05 AM

Pretty, but not my cup of tea musically. Blair Dunlop, however, is something else entirely.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: BTNG
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:06 AM

Emma everything is fine, ignore Frick and Frack, apparently they're both having a bad day, whether it's their hair or the traffic, I'm not quite certain :-D

Just took a look at your blog, Emma, very nicely done and hilarious that Ashley H and Blair D. were denying their relationship.

You might nor know that a couple of weeks ago, Ashley, Blair, and Judy Dunlop appeared together at The Red Lion Folk Club, at The Red Lion Pub, in Kings Heath Birmingham, now THAT must have been quite an evening:-)

Love and Rockets.

BTNG

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:06 AM

well Emma, the problem from my curmudgeonly and grumpy old manly viewpoint is that, whenever I see a post that's put up by you, it leads me inexorably to your blog. So the discussion here kicks off - and you never return to add to the conversation, say "ta" (perhaps) for a decent response, or anything else.

The inference I draw from that is that you're only really interested in luring people to your blog by putting up Aunt Sally questions here on Mudcat. How much nicer to create a post with your own words and thoughts in the post itself - and then dig into the subsequent discussion yourself.

Perhaps it's just me being an old cynic. I'd be quite interested in having a decent discussion with you here - but external blogs don't interest me in the slightest.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: BTNG
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:26 AM

Ohm by the by, Ruth Angell is in an incredibly talent fiddle player and can heard and seem playing with her own band, Ashley Hutchings Rainbow Chasers and The Lark Rise Band, just to name three :-)

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: EmmaHartley
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:38 AM

She's got the best line in between-song banter I've heard in a long time...

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:39 AM

Charlotte, dear Charlotte . . .

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:55 AM

They're on a journey, they nailed it, and whatever else they say on the X factor.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: BTNG
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:59 AM

She does that, Emma, Ruth has a delightful sense of humour

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:59 AM

....er, not "you're going home", hopefully :)

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Tootler
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 12:11 PM

You wanted manufactured folk bands?

Well, how about Peter, Paul and Mary for starters?

Oh! and did I notice the obligatory long-haired blond female vocalist or two?

I agree with Will Fly, btw. You start a thread then go away. You're not actually trolling but it's getting close.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: BTNG
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 12:22 PM

the word "troll" get's bandied about alot it seems to me...the word mirror seems to rise up everytime I see someone use it....

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Peter C
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 12:44 PM

Ruth Angell is an amazingly good fiddle player. She is also the first and only musician I have ever seen knitting (Ie with wool and needles) on stage between numbers (And sometimes during....)

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: BTNG
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 12:46 PM

Peter...yes, Ruth's like that and she loves knitting..she appears to be as good at knitting as she is at music, which no mean thing.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Banjiman
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 01:43 PM

I bet Smooth Ops are wetting themselves over Moonshee. Has Mike Harding played it (and interviewed them) yet? Bet it won't be long anyway......

Just wish I didn't kind of like it!

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 01:51 PM

well it all seems quite macrobiotic to me. good luck to 'em all!

On a more serious note, I wonder whatever happened to Steven Smith and Father. that tricky second album perhaps.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 01:55 PM

I detect the green-eyed monster in the room

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 02:08 PM

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16874284@N05/sets/72157627991461770/with/6286797860

More to come - but these 2 give the band some "legs"!!

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST,blogward
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 02:09 PM

Moonshee sound like wannabe Corrs. Sitars sound like sitars.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: EmmaHartley
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 03:18 PM

Phil Widdows from Folkcast tweeted the immortal words "curried Corrs" when he saw the video :-)

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 03:31 PM

BTNG, Judy Dyble of Fairport Convention also used to knit between numbers.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 03:55 PM

"Blair Dunlop, however, is something else entirely."

Indeed he is, a very talented lad indeed.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 04:23 PM

I'm not sure that the fiddle works in this band, I think a medieval instrument might blend better with the sitar - but she does show her legs well, and wears high heels that Essex Girl would be proud to wear at the Duke of Essex Polo Cup........ and thank Clapton, doesn't hide them on stage behind hideous black leggings!!!!

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Judy Dyble
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 04:23 PM

'Judy Dyble of Fairport Convention also used to knit between numbers.'

I did! I did! But only dishcloths and Eiffel Towers. Ruth would be far better at knitting than I ever was.
Well, anybody would be better actually :-)

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: BTNG
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 04:38 PM

Now, Judy, I am JUST old enough (actually we share the birth year) to remember seeing you...I'd forgotten all about it, till you mentioned it

Nice to "see" you again :-)

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 08:07 AM

There's nothing wrong with a manager or a label "putting together" a band.

It's just that, when they do, they tend to be of the unashamedly commercial, middle-of-the-road kind.

Hey, I hear Westlife split up recently. These Moonshee people could mop up some of the post-Westlife dollar methinks.

Reminds me of the Corrs. (Whatever happened to them?)

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 03:38 PM

Very interesting I see I have been accused of the green eyed monster, once again by supporters of the folkistocracy.

However i stick by my 'macrobiotic' comment. Its kind of understandable where its all come from, but none of it sets your mind on fire - artistically no one would cut their lughole off for this stuff.

BD has a fine DADGAD propulsive plectrum technique. The kind of people who go to folk clubs and sing Damien Rice songs will think this is fabulous. You can see JD more than Ashley's influence. Theres nothing more organic than a lad and his Dad making music. But when the Dad has been telling everybody what constitutes folk music for the last forty odd years - you'd expect the folk roots to be a little nearer the surface.

so like I say - more Steven Smith and Father, than the Carter family.

Park Records is in many ways the more interesting of the two. Park were forever advertising in the Bandit newsletter looking for new talent. When we had a recording studio way bck in the 1980's I sent them some remarkable young singer.songwriters, who never got the courtesy of a reply even. So I contacted them and asked them, what they would want to find in tomorrow's mail if their A and R dept was going to respond. They told me that they wanted a YOUNG, ETHNICALLY DIVERSE group. So after hanging round 20 years , they've decided to act out their fantasy.

I've always loved Come All You Fair and tender Maidens.   Its a great song, and full marks for choosing a Childe Ballad to openthe scoring. Like Fairport choosing Susanne, and The Johnstons doing Streets of London - it a respectable start - lets see how they run with it.

Okay not jealous, not malicious - just not hairs standing up on the back of the neck time. Understand.......? i doubt it.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: BTNG
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 03:49 PM

Nice Try al and your criticism has that same effect on me

"just not hairs standing up on the back of the neck time. Understand.......?"

I doubt it.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: John P
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 04:04 PM

What difference does it make how a band was formed? Surely whether or not one likes the music is the only guide to whether or not one should listen to them.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: BTNG
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 04:26 PM

everytime I see the term manufactured band, I always think of Thhe Monkees, or any of those "bubblegum" music bands.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: John P
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 06:55 PM

The Monkees, of course, were the quintessential manufactured band. So what? They still made some good music (at least those of us who sort of like 60s pop music thought it was pretty good . . .) They had lots of clunker songs, but so did the Beatles, The Rolling Stones and The Who.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Tootler
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 07:05 PM

They don't quite pull it off for me.

Individually they are all pretty good and the song was a good choice and is well sung, but the whole does not blend effectively. The harp and sitar particularly jar. I like both instruments but for me they don't work together.

Overall they sounded like a work in progress.

Good luck to them, nevertheless.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 07:22 PM

not criticism....just comment.

Agree with Tootler - best of luck to all of them.

Obviously not as much luck as I wish 18 year old Sunjay Brayne from Cradley Heath, Birmingham.


http://sunjaybrayne.com/

Makes the hairs stand up on my neck.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 03:59 AM

Glad you confirmed my knitting memory Judy, I wasn't sure I hadn't made it up. Re. The Monkees, the group produced some timeless popular songs, Last Train to Clarkesville and Daydream Believer among them. The motivation may have been Tin Pan Alley but the zeitgeist was hit squarely on the hooter. It's a shame this thread has gone down the one or t'other, this or that, cowboys or indians, mods or rockers, choose your poison angle I've loathed since the school playground. Can't we love Alan Lomax and Micky Most?

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: John P
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 11:10 AM

EmmaHartley, I'm really curious about how you feel about "manufactured" bands. Why is that piece of information important enough to you to start a thread about it? I detect a fair bit of negativity toward the concept of a manufactured band. Why is that? If that's not so, why did you start a thread with that as the most important aspect?

The last band I was in was started by me. I decided what kind of sound I wanted and went out and invited musicians to join. Whenever we needed to replace someone we conducted auditions. I wrote all the originals we did and had the biggest say in our arrangements. Was that a manufactured band? What's the difference?

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 12:31 PM

Good leg show!!!

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 12:48 PM

Well its better doing something than doing nowt, Good luck to park records!

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: EmmaHartley
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 07:39 AM

John P. Because it was the most interesting thing about them. As I explain in the post, there was something bizarre about their stage behaviour that only made complete sense when you knew they were put together and organised by a "higher power". A kind of nervousness that you don't normally see with folk bands.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST,roundtheblock1
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 08:37 AM

Okay, for the big question. Two big questions, actually. They are, without my being at all sure which of them should come first and which one second, (drum roll)>>>>>>>

1) Is "authenticity" a meaningful word, that is, is "authenticity" even possible, when referring to a "folk band" at this point in human cultural evolution?

2) If the answer to the above question is "Yes, authenticity can still exist," then is it possible for any of us, immersed as we are in the Spectacular situation, could possibly recognize it?

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: John P
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 10:26 AM

Emma, what I saw in their videos is a band that hasn't played together long enough. The individuals are quite skilled, but they haven't internalized their material yet. The songs are just a bit over-arranged and the band is focusing more on remembering the parts of the arrangement than on just playing it as a whole. In short, they are stiff on stage and the songs don't breathe.

The fact that they have "backing" probably means they are playing on stages they really aren't ready to play on yet. But that could be equally true if they formed themselves and found backing instead of being manufactured by a producer.

What I find interesting about them is their apparent newness to each other and to the material. They have enough skill that they will get better. I don't really care about the mechanism of their formation; it's none of my business and isn't really very interesting. I understand, however, that you find it interesting, and I support your right to think so. What I'm really curious about is whether you think it is automatically a negative aspect of the band, since there seemed to be a bit of that your remarks.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 10:41 AM

The links here and here are to the John Renbourn Group back when they featured Keshav Sathe on tabla. And here is the excellent Magic Carpet who were more on the psych-folk side of things. I always though this was a great sound that could be taken much further (though the forty odd Indian classical CDs I have on my shelves tell me I'm probably a bit biased). Having said that, this doesn't really do it for me - its all a bit too airbrushed and squeaky clean (though in the folk world it's far from alone in having that sound). I don't think it's the manufacturedness of it that causes this, just the decision to go for the default 21st century folk sound.

No problem with the idea of 'manufactured sounds' from me, though. Check out a wonderful album called 'The Upside Down World of John Pantry' which is chock full of brilliant psych-pop and most of it by bands that were avowedly studio concoctions. I agree with Gluey that it doesn't have to be either/or - its what comes out that counts.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 10:43 AM

"immersed as we are in the Spectacular situation"

Excellent! We have a situationist in the house!

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 10:54 AM

So folk still complain about the manufactured bands of the 60's and 70's..

...well don't even bother telling me how inauthentic and two dimensional
The Archies may have appeared on stage....

I don't care, they were still one of the greatest pop bands ever !!!

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 11:02 AM

http://youtu.be/UKywSgQ4OHE

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 12:44 PM

Shame that they need 6 people to make a noise that was fractionally as good as Blair Dunlop on his own!!

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Folkiedave
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 12:56 PM

Emma - I like the pictures of you at the very bottom of your blog.

Did it occur to you - when Blair and Ashley were denying any relationship that they might have been taking the mickey? I don't know whether they were or not - but it occurs to me.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: EmmaHartley
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 01:22 PM

John P - Don't you think that if I didn't like them I would have said so? Why are you so keen for me not to like them?

Folkie Dave. I have a feeling that the pictures you saw were ads - since there aren't any pics of me at the bottom of my blog - in which case they rotate and I'm sorry to disappoint. The father and son in question weren't so much denying their relationship as not mentioning it.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Tootler
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 08:39 PM

A manufactured folk group created in 1961.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t4g_1VoGw4

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST,Kevin
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 07:33 PM

It was actually the Australian lady who talked about what a Moonshee was, not the Irish one. It turns out none of the band auditioned to be in it either... they're all pretty regular on the session circuit.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 08:45 PM

Other manufactured folk groups: The Equation (1995 - all members vanished without trace now of course**), and currently Calan.

I'd far rather a manufactured band than a manufactured thread to hype a poor parody of Gemma Kidney

** irony

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 05:45 AM

Every act is manufactured.

There isn't a field where they grow folk music like potatoes. Neither does folkmsic grow wild like heather. Somebody has to get manufacturing to make it happen.

I'm on the side of the manufacturers.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 04:40 PM

It's the material and musicianship that matters.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: treewind
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 05:32 PM

"Every act is manufactured."

Only in a sense that is so general that it's meaningless.

The odd thing about this one is that none of the members of that band took part in the manufacturing. That doesn't usually happen in folk music.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 05:48 PM

That doesn't usually happen in folk music.

You mean that bands are manufactured in "folk music" with the member's consent...

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST,Kev
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 07:12 PM

The musicians brought their own songs to the album if you check it out. Songs from where they grew up etc.

Subject: RE: Park records manufactures a folky band
From: GUEST,Kev
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 07:14 PM

And the musicians did a most of the musical arrangement.