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BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???

Bobert 30 Oct 11 - 03:36 PM
Richard Bridge 30 Oct 11 - 03:39 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 11 - 03:48 PM
GUEST,Eliza 30 Oct 11 - 03:50 PM
gnu 30 Oct 11 - 04:17 PM
Richard Bridge 30 Oct 11 - 04:33 PM
Gurney 30 Oct 11 - 04:40 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 11 - 04:40 PM
Greg F. 30 Oct 11 - 05:47 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 11 - 06:11 PM
Bert 30 Oct 11 - 06:23 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 11 - 06:42 PM
GUEST,999 30 Oct 11 - 06:50 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 11 - 07:11 PM
JohnInKansas 30 Oct 11 - 07:13 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 11 - 07:23 PM
Richard Bridge 30 Oct 11 - 08:26 PM
JohnInKansas 30 Oct 11 - 08:29 PM
wysiwyg 30 Oct 11 - 08:38 PM
kendall 30 Oct 11 - 08:44 PM
JohnInKansas 30 Oct 11 - 08:49 PM
gnu 30 Oct 11 - 09:09 PM
ranger1 30 Oct 11 - 09:23 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 11 - 09:27 PM
GUEST,999 30 Oct 11 - 09:42 PM
Rapparee 30 Oct 11 - 09:43 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 11 - 09:53 PM
Rapparee 30 Oct 11 - 11:10 PM
GUEST,999 30 Oct 11 - 11:31 PM
kendall 31 Oct 11 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,Jon 31 Oct 11 - 08:25 AM
JohnInKansas 31 Oct 11 - 08:35 AM
GUEST,Eliza 31 Oct 11 - 09:12 AM
Bobert 31 Oct 11 - 09:46 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 31 Oct 11 - 10:28 AM
BTNG 31 Oct 11 - 10:33 AM
JohnInKansas 31 Oct 11 - 10:45 AM
kendall 31 Oct 11 - 12:13 PM
open mike 31 Oct 11 - 01:45 PM
Bert 31 Oct 11 - 02:43 PM
gnu 31 Oct 11 - 03:17 PM
Bobert 31 Oct 11 - 04:25 PM
Richard Bridge 31 Oct 11 - 04:38 PM
JohnInKansas 31 Oct 11 - 06:28 PM
Bobert 31 Oct 11 - 07:17 PM
GUEST,Jon 31 Oct 11 - 07:26 PM
ranger1 31 Oct 11 - 08:23 PM
Melissa 31 Oct 11 - 08:32 PM
Bobert 31 Oct 11 - 08:41 PM
JohnInKansas 31 Oct 11 - 09:36 PM
Bobert 31 Oct 11 - 09:54 PM
JohnInKansas 31 Oct 11 - 10:41 PM
Bobert 31 Oct 11 - 10:45 PM
MarkS 31 Oct 11 - 11:08 PM
Greg B 31 Oct 11 - 11:46 PM
JohnInKansas 31 Oct 11 - 11:55 PM
Bert 01 Nov 11 - 09:35 AM
Rapparee 01 Nov 11 - 10:03 AM
Bobert 01 Nov 11 - 01:01 PM
gnu 01 Nov 11 - 04:14 PM

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Subject: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 03:36 PM

I don't know... Seems I've always been able to figure out how to disable those miserable safety switches/relays/grounds so that you can get off the mower with the the engine running and back up with the blades engaged so...

...I just got a new Craftsman and right here under the seat are 2 wires with a push on connector and 1 wire with a push on connector that go to ground if you get off the seat so...

...I bundled them and took care of the problem of the engine dieing if you got off the seat but then when I went to put it in reverse the engine died...

So I put it back the way it was until I figure out how to accomplish this correctly...

Any ideas???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 03:39 PM

Life insurance?


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 03:48 PM

Come on, Richard... I've been disabling these going back 40 years... I know not to to dumb stuff... These safety feature are for the mentally challenged... You know, the ones who are told not to eat their new lawn tractor or drink the gasoline...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 03:50 PM

Bobert, I had a 'ride on' mower two years ago, and it had the same disabling system. When you get off, the engine cuts out. But, you daft thing, it's for your own safety! Do you actually want a runaway mower gaily cutting your toes off? Or worse still mowing the head off a child in the garden? And do you really want to reverse happily, cutters whirring around, while you shave the cat sitting behind you? You're bonkers!


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: gnu
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 04:17 PM

"when I went to put it in reverse the engine died..."

I got nuthin. Seems odd. How could they be linked?

Does the engine die in reverse now?


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 04:33 PM

There are bound to be a position sensor on the engage lever for the cutter deck and another on the gear linkage - sort of like the light switch at each end of the hall - so you can't have BOTH reverse and cutter deck. Seems odd there's no override for the cutter deck, maybe with a dead man's handle, you often want to mow backwards.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Gurney
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 04:40 PM

I know what Bobert means. Our new(ish) car has a buzzer which hoots when it is in reverse -inside the car!, and it won't go into gear unless you have a foot on the brake pedal.
I can just about understand the latter, but I wouldn't leave the keys in the car with small children anyway, but why I have to be nagged that I'm in reverse gear is beyond me. A warning outside is different.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 04:40 PM

No, gn-ze... I put everything back the way it was and all the safety crap is working like it's supposed to... In other words, lousy...
Not about wanting to mow backwards, Richard... There are times when things are tight and you need to back up a foot or two and can't do it without disengaging the blades causing extra wear and tear on the belt...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 05:47 PM

That's the brave new world - machines thinking for you and overriding human intelligence.

Just buy a new I-Phone, grab "On Star" & "Tom-Tom", log on to FarceBook & let the machines tell ya what to do. No need to use your brain - or what's left of your brain- at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:11 PM

I'll get it figured out...

Where's John in Kansas... He'll have some ideas...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Bert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:23 PM

...You're bonkers! ...

We know that Eliza! He bought a Craftsman Mower for Christ sake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:42 PM

Had good luck with them... This one is replacing a 20 year old Craftsman...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:50 PM

Bobert, have I ever called you a dumb-ass shithead before? I attended three--count them, THREE--calls as a first respondor in which people did dumb-ass shithead stuff with safety devices on farm machinery. One guy was lucky; he was DOA. Usually you're smarter than yer average cocker spaniel, but this time yer pushin' the limits, shit fer brains. No offence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:11 PM

No offense taken, brucie...

No matter... I'll kill those sumabichin' so-called safety features... They are for morons... I know not to stick my hand under the mower deck with the blades spinning... I know not to eat my lawn mower... I've disabled these moron things on every tractor I've ever had and I'll figure this one out, too...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:13 PM

It doesn't make much difference where you get it, unless it's a Deere it's made by MTD and they've only got one blueprint. They make a copy of the plan and change all the part numbers so different "brands" can charge more for the parts, but the pictures are all the same. If you don't want an MTD, you have to get a Deere, or go to a ZTR mower or to "heavy equipment" stuff.

The primary backup switch in all of them I've seen is a "leaf actuated switch" that's closed when the shift lever goes into the "reverse slot," and it will probably be mounted just under the plate where the shift lever goes through the "floor." That switch is in series with another one that may be tripped when the mower deck is down so that the engine only dies if the shift lever is moved to reverse AND the mower deck is down, both at the same time. Disconnecting either switch should let you be about as dangerous as you want to be. On several models I've seen, the "safety wiring" has been yellow-white color conded, but that may vary.

Also, if you let them sucker you into a "hydraulic drive" mower you may find something different.

Sears is notable for adding "features" like go-fast stripes and fuzzy dice, so their "customization" might cause some switch relocations, but on most mowers unbolting the plate where the shift lever disappears into the innards and raising the plate a bit should let you see the switch you're looking for.

My only examples are ten or more years old, and limited to the simple belt-drive models, so OSHA may have made them change something**; but I haven't heard them brag about anything new for quite a while.

** Mounting all the interlock switches so they don't fall off randomly would be a helpful update. Most of them are held on with sheetmetal screws through the cheap sheetmetal so you have to add a Tinnerman nut fairly often to keep them in there if you don't want to just disable them all.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:23 PM

Here's the weird one, John... It seems that the 2 wires and single wire get grounded when the seat is not in use... I can make it run without being seated by jumping the 2 wires to the single one... But then it won't do reverse...

I'm wondering if I might separate the 2 wires and find which one involves the seat and the other the reverse... Wait... Maybe by sitting on the seat I am completing a circuit???

Hmmmmm???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 08:26 PM

If I read this right, before the Bobert "improvement" the ignition is cut off if he is not on the seat, but he can still sit in the seat and mow backwards. After the improvement the ignition is not cut off if he is not in the seat - unless he engages both reverse gear and the blades.

Personally, I can see that being useful as a machine going backwards with the blades running with nobody aboard seems potentially hazardous.

Anyway, that makes it sound as if the dead man's bumhandle switch does two things - one is to disconnect one of the twin wires from the single wire (on which scenario the single wire would continue to the ignition) and the other that takes place at the same time is to connect one of the twin wires to the other of the twin wires, which then goes via a cutter deck safety switch to the ignition.   

At least I think that fits the facts. If I have the facts right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 08:29 PM

You probably can't do it by changing the single seat switch.

The seat switch is most likely closed when you're off the seat, and OPENS the "kill circuit" when you sit on it.

A separate switch CLOSES when you put the shift lever in reverse.

A third switch CLOSES if the mower deck is down (mower running).

If the seat switch is closed (you're off the mower) it's connected to the deck switch, so that the engine is killed if the mower deck is running. (The shift switch could also be in series with the seat switch to kill the engine if you get off with the gears engaged, but models that I've seen only sense REVERSE gear, so that's probably unlikely.)

The shift lever switch is in parallel with the seat switch so if the lever is in the reverse position OR the seat switch is on, the circuit to the deck switch is completed, so that lowering the deck closes the deck switch and completes the kill circuit.

For the engine to be killed, you must have:

Off the Seat (switch closed) AND deck down (switch closed). The shift lever can be anywhere.

OR

In Reverse (shift switch closed) AND deck down (deck switch closed). The seat switch can be either way.

You might be able to disable only the deck position switch, if you can find it. It's most likely a "push button" NO switch that closes when the deck lever is "anywhere but full up," probably actuated by a side link off the shaft that turns when you move the deck up/down lever, "inside" the body of the mower so that it works the same with any mower deck.

If you make the change by disabling the seat switch, you'll ALSO need to disable either the shift lever switch OR the deck switch (or both).

The interlock switches connect only to the magneto or distributor points, and grounding that point is what kills the engine by cutting off the spark. You have two parallel "safety circuits" - one through the seat switch AND deck switch and another through the shift switch AND deck switch, and completing either of the two circuits will kill the engine.

Disconnecting one wire at the switch you want to disable should be sufficient, and you shouldn't need to connect the wire back to anything in the usual circuits although you'll want to tape it or tie it so it can't short out on something. If you've connected the seat switch wires together, you've created an ON circuit, just as if you're off the seat. Unhook one (either) wire. You'll still need to attack the separate parallel shift/deck switches circuit to get what you want.

In the interlock wiring, generally:

Closed Switch = KILL.

Open Switch = RUN.

Unfortunately, MTD has never produced (released?) a legible wiring diagram. They draw it on a four foot long paper and then print it four inches long in the manuals, so even blowing it up in PhotoShop only gives you blurs. And the manuals don't mention much about the interlocks, except to say "they're there."

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 08:38 PM

Here ya go-- solution AND now it's a music thread!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_gEVILWVUM

Bobster, my mom's back in the ER after some time in ICU then rehab. 80+, never wanted to go into longterm care, tough New England stock. Kin you and the P-Vine pls say a prayer fer her (Sara) before you go mess with that safety? Family all tore up, 'cept here. (Here iz peace aplenty.)

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: kendall
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 08:44 PM

My John Deere rider mower has a button on the dash if you want to keep the blades turning in reverse, you simply push it and the engine keeps running.
If I lean over to pick up something that might get wound up in the blades the engine stops, so I pull the plug under the seat, put it neutral and it keeps running.
Bobert is right, those "Safety switches" are for people who shouldn't be running machinery anyway. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 08:49 PM

Richard -

The usual arrangement is that the engine is killed if the mower deck is lowered (to make the blades run) if you're not on the seat.

The engine is also killed if the deck is running anytime you put the shift lever in reverse.

To back up, you must be in the seat AND the deck must be raised to stop the blades.

Raising and lowering the deck doesn't really cause significant wear on the belts. It does cause significant wear and tear on the old farts driving the mower, which is probably Bobert's real complaint.

The main drive belt is the clutch and you just drop the tension and let it slip to shift gears. The mower deck belt slips when the deck is up, and the weight of the deck pulls the belt up tight when you lower the deck; but the "slippage wear" from engaging/disengaging the deck is small compared to the slippage due to torque fluctuations from moving through the grass in operation.

The belts wear out when you stall them in the tall wet stuff and make them slip under tension (they can smoke pretty quickly), and/or when you "mow over the deadfall" branches and rocks. I usually try to miss any of the junk that sticks up much above the grass, but the average mower does make a fairly decent wood chipper for anything (wooden) up to about a half-inch in diameter, if you don't mind replacing the blades occasionally when they wear down (or when you hit a really big log).

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: gnu
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 09:09 PM

Big log? That requires more than blades. Bend the shaft an yer f***ed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: ranger1
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 09:23 PM

Bobert, my only advice is: you shoulda bought a Deere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 09:27 PM

WHYSuze... We're on it...

Yeah, John, I think that we got to the same place about the same time... I think I can beat this...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 09:42 PM

I'd have a joint about now, if I had a joint about now. This is so fu#kin' stupid I don't know where to begin. First, if you had the brains God gave a turnip, you'd have goats to mow the lawn. They also crap and fertilize it for next year. Come Christmas or Thanksgiving, you and P-vine eat one of the goats. This is a so-called win-win (except for the goat).

##############################################

I just figured out--I'm a bit slow--that this is one of the best chain-yanks that's ever been on Mudcat, because NO one would be idiot enough to do what you're suggesting.

Good one, Bobert. Ya got me good. The month of April is coming and I'm gonna have a comeuppance. I don't know what a comeuppance is, but if it's anything like a goat, roast at 350 for 18 minutes a pound and voila, Bob's yer uncle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 09:43 PM

My mother was cutting grass one day. I came home and she wasn't around, but there was a very cut-up shoe in the yard. Seems like she pulled the power mower back so she could pull a weed.... Slightly over 100 stitches. She didn't lose any toes, but the motor stalled on the meat. The neighbor took her to the ER and supplied the towel her foot was bleeding into.

Well, Bobert, all I gotta say is -- you shoulda bought a Deere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 09:53 PM

So let me see if I have this right???

I should have bought a Deere because it does what I'm trying to get this Crapsman to do??? Uh huh... But if I had a Deere then I'd stick my foot under it and get a 100 stitches... Uh huh... Rap... We need you to pee in this little cup...

So let me see if I have this right, Part 2???

This is all just an early April's Fool thread??? Uh huh, brucie... That's right... You guessed it... April Fools!!!

Nah, we got a cup for you, too...

Who else needs a cup???

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Saftey Swithches???
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 11:10 PM

That was back in the days before power mowers HAD safety interlocks...about 1956, in fact. That was even before EMTs -- back then they were called "ambulance drivers" and they did the best they could.

You shoulda bought a Deere because I got relatives who work(ed) for Deere. Unemployment is high enough, and like all the rest of The Bosses Bobert grinds the American worker under his heel.

Revolution now! In fact, if we don't get revolution the lawn mowers won't work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 11:31 PM

Eezy fore ewe too tipe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: kendall
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 08:20 AM

Any power tool is a malevolent beast that is just waiting for you to do something stupid so it can rob you of an appendage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 08:25 AM

fwiw, I'm with those who think there have been too many injuries and deaths through lack of/removal of guards and safety mechanisms on machinery.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 08:35 AM

There's no question that Deeres are decent enough mowers, but a "real Deere" from the "real Deere dealer" generally is significantly more expensive than most of us need for keeping the weeds whacked down.

Deere has begun making a "cut rate model" to compete with the run of the mill mowers, sold most notably by Home Depot; but most of the real Deere dealers won't sell you one of those. The "Home Depot Deeres" still look like about 15% to 20% more money than comparable, and adquate, other "brand names."

Spend the difference only if you need the difference. Even if it's just "braggability" that may be important to you.

If you need a "garden tractor" rather than just a mower, it's probably worth looking at a Deere; but for just mowing the lawn that extra "quality" is mostly just braggin' rights. (And you probably need to look at a Deere, if that's what you need, because very few other "real garden tractors" are easily found.)

On the 4-wheel riding style, all you need to look at is the drive wheel. Mowers (residential style) universally have a single bolt through the center to hold the wheel on. That's adequate for mowing, but the only tire you can get to fit that wheel is a "turf protector" tire with almost no tread at all, and ZERO traction.

A "garden tractor" should have four lug nuts (or 4 bolts) and a slightly larger wheel. It's difficult to tell the difference in the wheel size just walking past one, but the 4 bolt rather than one tells you all you need to know to tell what kind of machine you're looking at. For the slightly larger 4-lug wheel there are at least TWO fairly available treads (there may be more?), so you can use a tire with (rather dainty - but helpful) lugs on them that may actually get you up and down around the creek bed.

Note that the people who sell them at the big box stores won't know the difference, so looking at the ads isn't helpful.

Even with one of the "real garden tractors," one can't expect to pull much load. I've got a back driveway that most reasonably sized ones probably couldn't pull a 5 cu ft cart full of potting soil up; but my mower (with the turf-saver treadless tires) can't pull itself up the slopes on about 30% of my lawn, so I have to do all the mowing diving down the slopes. (On some parts the brakes won't even stop it going down, 'cause the "turf tires" just slide.)

Although it gets a bit complicated to present all the reasons, concensus opinion also tends to be that "hydraulic transmissions" are fine for ZTR mowers and for most 4-wheel mowers, but mechanical transmissions (including belt types) are a little better if you need "pulling power" of any kind in the smaller machines - even if you only need a little bit. Opinion divides a little more when you get into larger "field tractors," but if you need something that big you probably have "special uses" to justify looking at which type of transmission does what you really need most.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 09:12 AM

Mine was only a little Countax Rider, and you could quite easily stop the blades before going into reverse to manoeuvre. I never needed a new belt in six years. I know it's tedious when, say, you get off the thing to open the garage doors and the engine cuts out, You have to restart it just to put it away. But mashed flesh isn't pretty. I once (very stupidly) used my heavy petrol brushcutter down in the ditch wearing slip-on slippers. It was a steep slope and, yes, it became a toecutter. The juicy tops of all my toes on one foot were whizzed off and the blood was something else. Luckily my neighbour got me to hospital. I now live in a little house with a little garden and have no machinery except a lawnmower. Please Bobert, do be careful. You'd be sorry afterwards wouldn't you? I know I felt a right fool!


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 09:46 AM

The problem with the Deere riding mowers is that they also have the same irritating safety stuff... Hey, I don't mind the stuff that makes sense but the one's I'm trying to override make sense only for the most seriously challenged... That ain't me... I've bypassed these two irritaing so-called safety features for the last 30 some years and have neevr been hurt in the slightest...

Here's an example of just how senseless these things are... You are our using your mower collecting leaves in the bagger attachment... Now if you have a decent amount of leave, which I do, the bag will fill up in less than 2 minutes... In order to empty the bags you have to shut everything off, including putting the sumabcih in "park" (not just neutral), shutting off the engine, etc... That's about 4 steps... Then it's off the tractor for 20 seconds to empty the leaves in to composting area and then another half a dozen steps before resuming...

Irritating...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:28 AM

After my MTD/Troybuilt lawn tractor accumulated enough ailments that fixing all of 'em was gonna cost more than the thing was worth, I stole the seat off of it and made it into a very comfortable chair/stool for my potter's wheel. I was never that pleased with the tractor, but I've not had a minute's trouble with it since I turned it into a potting stool.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: BTNG
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:33 AM

First, I wonder why it is that some people think that safety features are meant for everyone else except them, it's those same folk, I swear, who thought fluoride in the water and crash helmets for motorcycles were communist plots


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:45 AM

I haven't seen one that requires you to shut down the engine if you put the tranny in Park and disengage the mower deck, although I can't say that sort of interlock system doesn't exist. My seat switch doesn't cut the engine off if it's in Park and the mower deck is disengaged.

And although mine supposedly has a "shift on the fly" tranny coupling, it's almost impossible to get it into park unless you push the clutch/brake down all the way and slam the shift lever back pretty forcibly. (Putting it in park sets the brake, so you have to stretch the brake spring enough for it to hold it on.)

I could adjust it for a little easier operation someday, but why mess with what still works?.

Mine is about 14 years old now, and I've put about three deck belts on it, 3 or 4 sets of blades, and one drive belt. There are a half dozen "small pieces" missing, some just ignored and a few "replaced with field expedients," but it cuts the grass so it's fine for my current mowing requirements.

I doubt if I could get the mulching plug out of the deck, since it's been in there all but the first year I had the machine. Bagging the clippings ain't really the "green way" of doin' it, unless you're just trying to impress the neighbors (more than I care about doing).

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: kendall
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 12:13 PM

Idiot lights in modern cars are for people who can't read gauges too.

I bought a John Deere because it was on sale. I wouldn't buy anything from Sears again, ever. Try buying parts for one of their machines.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: open mike
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 01:45 PM

this reminds me of a song i heard recently--done to the tune of
My Favorite Things from the sound of music---"wingnuts"

bull dozers, back hoes and 15 ton dump trucks,
land rovers, track hoes, 1/2 inch keyless drill chucks,
turbo charged diesels turned up til they sing
these are a few of my favorite things

darned if i can find a link to it now...


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: Bert
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 02:43 PM

here 'tiz


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: gnu
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 03:17 PM

Red Green has a buch a lawn mower vids


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 04:25 PM

No, John in Kansas... These new ones will not let you get up off the seat... You get off and the engine dies... Heck, I'd be happy to just dismantle that one which I did but in doing so it also made the tractor die if you put it in reverse (blades or no blades)... That's the most irritating of them all so I had to wire it back the way it was so I'd have reverse???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 04:38 PM

That, I think, negates JiK's theory about how the switches work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 06:28 PM

No Richard - I think that just negates Boberts notion that he can do it all by messing with just one of the multiple safety switches.

Current models at MTD show the same circuits with the same switches as on my 14 year old one. Since these switches are "OSHA Required" the simplest way for the makers to qualify their design is to use the same design everyone else uses, so I doubt that others are much different.

Making the seat switch always kill the engine just means it's in full parallel with the separate circuit branches containing the other switches, instead of being in a series/parallel connection, and that's a trivially simple change in the wire harness.

Since there are multiple kill switches, you have to change the connection for the one that controls the function you want to change. There most likely are four separate "safety switches" on Bobert's mower, and so far as he's mentioned he's only found one of them.

There's also a fuse, usually about 20A, buried in the wire harnesses, that he'll probably blow and won't be able to find before he gets done mucking with it(?) On most models it's "in the wire" and you have to replace the "wire assembly" to fix a blown fuse. (They usually don't sell that wire separately, so you're supposed to replace the whole wire harness.)

If getting off the seat always kills the engine it means that the seat swtich closes when you get off the seat and that switch grounds the distributor.

If the mower deck switch only kills the engine when you put it in reverse with the deck running, it means the deck switch is in series with the shift lever switch, so that both of those switches have to be closed to kill. Since this kills the engine even if the seat switch is open (if you're on the seat) the deck switch and the shift lever switch have to be in series in a separate branch of the circuit, and that branch is in parallel with the branch that contains the seat switch.

The main MTD mower that Sears sells is the MTD "Yardman" series. The wiring shown by MTD for the current version of that "brand name" model is identical to mine, although they don't indicate whether all the switches are in the same physical locations on all models.

The schematic for my wiring condition:

                To Distributor/Magneto
          __________|__________
          |                   |
          X seat             X shift lever in reverse
          | empty             |
          |                   |
          X Not In            X deck running
          | Park             |
          |                   |
          |___________________|
                     |
                To Ground


The "X" indicates a switch with the condition when it's CLOSED.

To kill the engine regardless of whether the Park/brake is set, the "Not in Park" switch would have to be removed, and replaced by a solid wire. This leaves one switch with an "undefined function" in other models, since the manuals all say there are four of them. OSHA can think up lots of other features to be required that might use it.

There are multiple other schematics you can draw to get the same logical AND/OR functions. This is just one of the simpler ones.

All the switches MUST be wired to kill the engine when the switch is CLOSED.

If either of "this switch" OR "that switch" can kill the engine, those two switches must be in PARALLEL circuits.

If "this switch" AND "that switch" are both required before the engine is killed, those two switches must be in the same SERIES circuit branch.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 07:17 PM

Well, seein' as I'd be happy to just be able to get off the mower and not have the engine quit I'm going separate the two wires and see if one or the other, when connected direct to the single wire will keep it running and assume that the other of the 2 needs to go to ground...

Hey, trial and error ma be what it takes...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 07:26 PM

Hey, trial and error ma be what it takes...

Providing you don't blow a fuse or worse first...


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: ranger1
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 08:23 PM

Bobert, did you try putting on the parking brake and disengaging the PTO? That usually does the trick. and Deere's have this nifty little button that if you push it, allows you to back up without disengaging the PTO...


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: Melissa
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 08:32 PM

Wouldn't creating a constant connection for the seat be a lot easier than putting the rest of the wiring in strange contortions?


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 08:41 PM

ranger1,

Yes...

Melissa,

Tried it... Kills my reverse... The designers have tricked us... I've done all this before... They have tried to stop us from doing it...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 09:36 PM

Bobert - Best odds for doing what you want is to disconnect the seat switch and just leave the wires - either one, or both, of them - hanging (taped or tied down, of course, so they don't flop around).

There are detail differences in the specific models that might make that disable something else, but odds are good that the one disconnect should work.

The engine kill function is caused by CLOSING a switch, and the open wire simulates an open switch - which is what you want. If you unhook a kill switch wire, DON'T connect it back anywhere else - at least until you confirm that the open circuit does something else you don't want.

The backup override button mentioned on the Deere could be a pushbutton OFF-MOM switch (NC, OFF-MOM), that disconnects when you push the button, but it would need to be in series with the safety switch that closes when the shift lever goes to Reverse - preferable with nothing else between the two. You could also put a normal On-Off switch in the same place, and ON would let the interlock work normally but OFF would prevent it from killing the engine.

Usually, the Reverse sensing switch is just under the plate where the Fwd/N/Rev stick comes out, and it's just a leaf spring that the shift stick hits when you go into the R slot. The plate itself likely comes off if you pull 4 or 6 sheetmetal screws - or on the high dollar models ordinary screws that go into nutplates. You usually have to unscrew the shift lever knob to get the plate clear off, but all you need to do is lift it enough to see the switch.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 09:54 PM

Okay, John... That was on my list of "Let's see what this does"...

LOL...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:41 PM

Hey Bubba! Hold my Beer!!!!!

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:45 PM

You got it...

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: MarkS
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 11:08 PM

Take the easy way out and get a couple of goats. Keep the grass down and provide fertilizer at the same time.
Also great for controlling poison ivy!
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: Greg B
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 11:46 PM

My 1956 International (Farmall) 300 Utility doesn't have no stinkin' safety switches. Matter of fact, if I drop dead of a coronary in the driver's seat while mowing a east-going row in the field, it might just make its way to the Atlantic Ocean from rural Pennsylvania with my inert corpse sitting in the seat before it ever stopped.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 11:55 PM

MarkS -

A flock of ducks will do about as good a job as goats, and they're better at keeping the stray cats out of the yard.

But of course it's harder to milk a duck.

Burros are probably best for keeping the coyotes out, although some claim llamas do almost as good a job.

A bunch of prairie dogs will get rid of everything you might possibly mow, but they tend to move next door and upset the neighbors.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: Bert
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 09:35 AM

Goats will also eat your Kudzu.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 10:03 AM

I been thinkin' about this thread and I'm POWERFUL glad Bobert ain't in charge of the US nuclear launch system.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 01:01 PM

What makes you think I ain't, Rap???

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Disabling Tractor Safety Switches???
From: gnu
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 04:14 PM

A couple a yer eye bolts and a ratchet strap tie-down? Now, that may be the Kent County good-ol-boy riggin-friggin but it's cheap and fast. Bob's yer redneck uncle eh?


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