Where's New Zealand?

Subject: Where's New Zealand?
From: GUEST,Ed Silberman
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 12:58 AM

Why is it that we (in the USA at least) hear so very little about English language traditional song from New Zealand? In forty-some years of interest in folk music I don't know if I've heard more than one or two NZ songs, if even that many.

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: Gurney
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 01:48 AM

Where's NZ? Through Disneyland, left at Mickey Mouse, then start swimming...;-)
There are very few trad songs, by the strict definition, from NZ. There are British songs that have a NZ version, a couple of sea songs that have no known author, and there are songs whose origins we know, including some rather good ones.
I'm sure Little Robyn will come in with a definitive list if you ask her nicely.

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 02:40 AM

A NZ teaching colleague of mine in S London called Jim McNeish, who subsequently iirc became a fairly well-known journalist but of whom I have heard nothing for many years, back in the late-50s used to sing a song with chorus: "Rows of bottles standing upright, Labelled in bright blue and gold; Beer so cold it needs no icing In the cellar's deep dark hold" [from memory], which he claimed to be a traditional NZ song; but he seemed to know no others.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: Musket
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 04:11 AM

Songs about or songs from?

I recall Paul Metsers first coming here to The UK with his wonderful songs, many penned from his life there. Not traditional, but rather nice.

When I was in NZ, I found the folk tradition from a bars and cafe aspect was centred on English, Irish, Scottish (especially Scottish) traditional songs, and a huge number of seafaring songs of course.

New Zealand as a country thinking about its folk tradition would, like Hawaii, have a a strong Polynesian influence. Maori culture would be the New Zealand tradition for many.

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 04:23 AM

The rows of bottles come from the song 'Shantys by the way'.
There aren't a lot of old NZ 'folk songs' but John Archer has a NZ Folksite here Click here.
There are also a few Maori songs included as well.
Many years ago the NZ Folklore Society set out to locate the 'Great NZ Folk Song' but we didn't really find much. Even the songs we thought were NZ trad were shown to be adaptations of songs from other countries - Davy Lowston = Sam Hall, Bright Fine Gold = Hot Cross buns and even the Maori songs I heard as a child, were either adapted from hymns the missionaries taught or popular songs of WW1 that were rewritten. John's site can fill in gaps.
There are also threads here on specific songs. Look for comments from Billy the Bus (Sam Sampson, now deceased).
There are lots of threads in general if you put 'New Zealand' in the search box above.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: banjoman
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 05:17 AM

I seem to recall hearing a song about Yo Yo's when I was little and being told it was a Maori song from NZ. The only bit I recall is something about -Tiny ball on end of string -
Any ideas??

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 05:39 AM

I have refreshed old thread re 'Pub At The Crossroads' in relation to "Shanties by the Way" ref'd above, of which a full version appears there.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: Andrez
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 06:04 AM

Still gloating over their most recent sporting victories over Australia I imagine :-)

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 06:11 AM

The tiny ball on end of string is a Maori poi, not a yoyo. It's usually made of something soft - like scrunched up newspaper and the strings are either short or long. The technique is slightly different.   
Short poi here.
Long poi here.

Robyn

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: scouse
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 07:29 AM

Wasn't "Now is the hour." based on a Maori lullaby.. something in the back of my mind thinks it is. Though I could be wrong!!

As Aye,

Phil

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 08:33 AM

Peter Cape was pretty good.

http://folksong.org.nz/petrcape.html

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: Gurney
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 03:23 PM

According to my book, 'Now is the Hour' was written by a Maori lady, Maewae Kaihau, to music by Clement Scott.
I used to work with Maewae's nephew, a fine guitarist, and he thought 'auntie' wrote it all!

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 03:23 PM

Now is the hour is a Maori song, made popular in the 40s and sung as ships pulled away from the wharf taking the troops to war. I think it was Gracie Fields who took it back to Britain and it spread from there.
Here it is on John Archer's site.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: GUEST,Ed Silberman
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 05:13 PM

Thank ya'll, especially Little Robyn, for your leads. I will pursue them.

To answer a few questions. I mean English language songs of the Anglo/Celtic sort that have been preserved through oral transmission by New Zealanders. They can be by known or unknown authors. Many Wood Guthrie or Stephen Foster song, f'r instance,have definitely passed into the folk river even tho we know very well who penned them

They need not be about New Zealand. Are all Irish folk songs about Ireland? Just so long as were/are sung on NZ soil. I xpect there are to be a lot of songs from English, Irish,and Scottish roots. That doesn't disqualify them, everything comes from somewhere. Barbara Allen is an English song, and an Appalachian, Ozark, Vermont, New Jersey, Wyoming and a Missouri song and more

I'm not really interested in Maori music(xcept for where it's intermingled with white people's music) for the same reason I'm not interested in learning Native American music. It's too far outside of my frame of reference. It's not my culture, it's not my language, and it would very presumptuous of me to attempt to sing them.

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 08:57 PM

The short answer re celtic songs migrating to NZ is no! We discovered that most early settlers, in Canterbury at least, would be either singing hymns at church or the family group around a piano singing Victorian parlour songs. Phil Garland spent 3 months on the road in 1969, searching for 'Folk songs' but mostly he found poetry, sometimes political, sometimes quite recent but he didn't really find the sort of songs you're thinking of.
We already knew the Woody Guthrie/Weavers/Leadbelly songs and most of us endured stuff like Skye boat song or Oh, no John, no John, no John, no, or Early one morning when we were at school, so the NZ Folklore Society were keen to find something more inspiring.
Phil Garland has a site here.
He used the things he found to write his own songs or to add music to existing poems.
Not really what you're looking for either.
One song from England that Frank Fyfe found in the Wairarapa was 'The Mistletoe Bough' but that was the closest to a folk song that he found. None of us ever felt moved to sing it!
Robyn

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 10:54 PM

hmmmm.. we used to have several regular posters from NZ to ask...(search for Pete M or Billy the Bus, or matai).. but not much recently.

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 03:47 PM

Billy the bus (Sam Sampson) died about 3 years ago.
Don't know about the other 2.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Where's New Zealand?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 03:54 PM

Here's Sam's obit.

Robyn