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east anglian styles

The Sandman 12 Nov 11 - 06:08 AM
Mary Humphreys 12 Nov 11 - 11:25 AM
The Sandman 12 Nov 11 - 12:18 PM
Alan Day 13 Nov 11 - 05:00 AM
Vic Smith 13 Nov 11 - 06:12 AM
The Sandman 13 Nov 11 - 06:17 AM
Will Fly 13 Nov 11 - 06:40 AM
Alan Day 13 Nov 11 - 08:33 AM
treewind 13 Nov 11 - 09:09 AM
Vic Smith 13 Nov 11 - 09:19 AM
Vic Smith 13 Nov 11 - 09:25 AM
The Sandman 13 Nov 11 - 11:07 AM
The Sandman 13 Nov 11 - 11:19 AM
treewind 13 Nov 11 - 12:32 PM
The Sandman 13 Nov 11 - 01:46 PM
johncharles 13 Nov 11 - 02:17 PM
The Sandman 13 Nov 11 - 03:03 PM
giles earle 13 Nov 11 - 03:23 PM
The Sandman 13 Nov 11 - 03:53 PM
johncharles 13 Nov 11 - 04:25 PM
The Sandman 13 Nov 11 - 04:58 PM
johncharles 13 Nov 11 - 06:50 PM
The Sandman 14 Nov 11 - 03:07 AM
Alan Day 14 Nov 11 - 04:07 AM
The Sandman 14 Nov 11 - 04:16 AM
Howard Jones 14 Nov 11 - 04:18 AM
The Sandman 14 Nov 11 - 05:39 AM
Vic Smith 14 Nov 11 - 05:57 AM
johnadams 14 Nov 11 - 06:14 AM
Alan Day 14 Nov 11 - 07:21 AM
Howard Jones 14 Nov 11 - 07:44 AM
The Sandman 14 Nov 11 - 08:56 AM
treewind 14 Nov 11 - 09:12 AM
Vic Smith 14 Nov 11 - 10:02 AM
The Sandman 14 Nov 11 - 10:43 AM
Vic Smith 14 Nov 11 - 11:21 AM
Will Fly 14 Nov 11 - 11:21 AM
The Sandman 14 Nov 11 - 12:02 PM
Alan Day 14 Nov 11 - 12:03 PM
Will Fly 14 Nov 11 - 12:06 PM
The Sandman 14 Nov 11 - 12:43 PM
Alan Day 14 Nov 11 - 01:20 PM
Will Fly 14 Nov 11 - 01:21 PM
Tootler 14 Nov 11 - 05:34 PM
The Sandman 15 Nov 11 - 07:26 AM
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Subject: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 06:08 AM

Having lived there in the past and listened to a lot of traditional musicians, my ears tell me there was a considerable divergence of styles, amongst trad musicians., from that region
I hope that homeogeonised versions of these styles are not going to be taught under the guise of east anglian music, this is a mistake Comhaltas have made with irish music, it would be a shame to see this mistake repeated.Cecil PEARL , DOLLY CURTIS OSCAR WOODS PERCY BROWN,EELEY WHENT, BILLY BENNINGTON,WALTER BULWER , Encompassed a wide variety of styles


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 11:25 AM

"I hope that homeogeonised versions of these styles are not going to be taught under the guise of east anglian music"
Who is doing this homogenised teaching? And where?


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 12:18 PM

I have no idea, did i say any one was?
I would like to think that people who may be interested in east anglian styles would seek out recordings of all the different people i have mentioned and listen to them.Vintage recordings[ john howson] would be a good place to start to get source material. topic did english country music, Cyril poacher, sam larner, harry cox, are quality trad singers.
Mary,anybody else you might suggest as worth listening to?


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Alan Day
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 05:00 AM

I would expect that Jeannie Harris would be very near to the old East Anglian style she has lived there for many years and is a superb musician.I also enjoy Rees Wesson's playing particularly one row melodion, but how near he and Jeanie come to the traditional East Anglian style I do not know.
Al


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Vic Smith
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:12 AM

Vintage recordings[ john howson]

Actually it's Veteran. It's at http://www.veteran.co.uk/


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:17 AM

styles, styles Alan, Percy Browns style was different to Oscar woods or Cecil pearl, OR Font Watling.
there is no such thing as just one east anglian style
yes Veteran, not vintage.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:40 AM

Interesting stuff, Dick. How would you characterise the different styles - just out of curiosity? Is it through ornamentation, or use of single notes, or notes and chords. Every free reed player I know brings something of their own style to the music but - as I know nothing of specifically East Anglian playing - some examples of what you mean would be useful.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Alan Day
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 08:33 AM

So if it is "Styles - Styles", then there is only East Anglian Music in your view, exactly as English Country dance music, also played in many various styles. Not coming from East Anglia, or even living there, I have been mislead.
Al


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: treewind
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 09:09 AM

"I have no idea, did i say any one was?" [teaching "homeogeonised versions of these styles" under the guise of east anglian music]

You certainly seem very worried that somebody might be about to start, since you've taken the trouble to start a thread about it.

East Anglia is full of folk musicians all doing their own thing.

But now I'm getting worried in case my band plays a set of one of Percy Brown's Polkas and and of Walter Bulwer's together. Are the folk police going to arrest me for pollution of the ethnic purity by mixing the tunes of two players in a generic style? Is it all right if I play them on a 1-row melodeon when Percy played a two-row?

Dick, you'd better come along to some of John and Katie Howson's music weekends (Traditional Music Day in September or Melodeons and More in March) and make sure they are following correct indoctrination policy. Maybe you can give them some tips from Ceoltas.

(some people have entirely too much time on their hands)


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Vic Smith
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 09:19 AM

I have heard Dr. Reg Hall expound some very interesting views on this subject - and I would regard him as one of the leading living experts on this.

He stated to me that - allowing for individual differences which are always going to exist - that there is (or was) a stylistic 'arc' that extended from East Anglia, through Sussex, Dorset, Devon to Cork, Kerry and Clare where the style of playing old functional dance tunes - and to a large extent also the repertoire - held great similarities.

He thought that the style in the Irish part of the 'arc' has been largely modified during the twentieth century by both the activities of Conradh na Gaeilge, the Gaelic League, and by the strong influence of the widespread American/Irish recordings of Gillespie, Gorman et al.

I was rather sceptical of the Irish part of Reg's theory until I was at Johnny O'Leary's wonderful session at Knocknagree in the Cork/Kerry border area. Johnny called on a very old man (late '80s or 90s?) to play something and he got out his one-row melodeon and played a couple of tunes. I was astonished! If he had been sitting down with Oscar Woods or Percy Brown they would have found it easy to play together having repertoire and style in common. Johnny noticed my reaction. At the end of his set, Johnny turned to me and said, "All the old men around here used to play like that when I was learning; he's the very last one left".

I would have to agree with Reg when he talks about the differences between the technical quirks of individual players and the synthesis of them all which makes a regional style. It is the latter that more important, which is not to say that an outstanding individual will not have a strong influence on those around him.


Reg took Scan Tester from Sussex to meet Walter & Daisy Bulwer in Shipdham (and fortunately recorded their meeting - (English Country Music, CD, Topic TSCD607, 2000.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Vic Smith
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 09:25 AM

[continued...] Reg took Scan Tester from Sussex to meet Walter & Daisy Bulwer in Shipdham on August 5, 1962 (and fortunately recorded their meeting - {English Country Music, CD, Topic TSCD607, 2000.}). They had never met, never heard of one another except through Reg. They had no difficulty at all in playing together. The Bulwers know all of Scan's tunes and vice-versa.   


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 11:07 AM

tree wind "some people have too much time on their hands" thats what i call rude and not really necessary, we are getting some interesting insights into east anglian music., vics extracts from reg hall are of particular interest
lastly i dont need to go and play with john and katie, i played with them in a band some years ago, i know all about them.
lastly its comhaltas, quite frankly comhaltas are the last people to advise anyone on style, they have done a fairly good job of altering irish music.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 11:19 AM

i ha a similiar experience to the one vic described, i used to play with an old fiddler who lived 5 miles away from me, here in west cork, he played a number of tunes apart from standard irish repertoire, and overall he sounded pretty much like walter bulwer.
i havent answered wills question so far, becasue i think the best advice is to go and seek recordings of trad musicians listen and decide for yourself.
alan, its hard to compare other southern english musicians from other areas because so little has been collected, scan tester was a concertina player[very few of then in east anglia]of the fiddle players we have stephen baldwin from herefordshire, he is worth comparing to eeley whent and spanker austin, but all my recordings are on lps and i do not have time or expertise to transfer them.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: treewind
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 12:32 PM

Vic's posting about the common repertoire amongst traditional musicians in the south of both England and Ireland was indeed very interesting, but neither that nor any of your followup posts in this thread have explained why you are so concerned with Comhaltas-style teaching of a uniform "East Anglian" style, when you cannot cite any evidence that such a threat exists.

Apologies for misspelling of Comhaltas. I'm usually very careful about these things.

Finally, a question: after listening to the playing of many different traditional musicians, is a player to blame if their own playing style tends to be a mixture of bits of all of them? Does this matter at all? Is that the same as the homeogenisation that you are concerned about? What if that player does any teaching?

(OK, several questions...)


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 01:46 PM

tree wind, I lived in East Anglia from 1978 to 1989, I remember John Howson arriving from Liverpool, about 1979/ 1980.
I think John has done a comprehensive job collecting and recording singers from East Anglia.
however I don't recall you at all, where were you living at the time?
I met and heard Oscar Woods, Font Watling, Billy Bennington and many others, many of my then family knew Billy Cooper and Walter Bulwer,and their music.
you asked me a question so here is a HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE...if someone is very specific and says I am teaching THE traditional style of farhquar macrae, and then plays recordings of macrae and illustrates his style, That is fine, or says, here are recordings of angus grant, and illustrates it or here is so sand so , that in my opinion is a good way to pass on information about the music, I think it is really important that as a general principle that people are made aware of all the different traditional players and styles within an area.
    it is not quite the same as the comhaltas homeogenisation, they actively encourage [through their stupid marking system] a Comhaltas style.
in my opinion good teaching should not be just about showing one style, but should be about letting people hear and analyse different traditional musicians from an area.The material is available


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: johncharles
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 02:17 PM

the following may answer some of the questions raised. Note the link to east anglian music teaching. Anahata you are mentioned in this somewhere as leading a session.
onerow melodeon
john


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 03:03 PM

very nice clip,, her playing is different from katies, but it tells us nothing about billy benningtons hammer dulcimer style, so it is irrelevant


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: giles earle
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 03:23 PM

Er....'Him' I think you'll find, not 'her'.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 03:53 PM

him, her, does it matter, it still throws no light on benningtons hammer dulcimer style


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: johncharles
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 04:25 PM

Sorry must have missed something here. I did'nt realise the discussion was specific to " billy benningtons hammer dulcimer style"
john


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 04:58 PM

it isnt, but you cannot translate a dulcimer style, judging by the example given, to a one row melodeon, learned from katie howson from billy bennington tells us nothing about hammer dulcimer styles in norfolk.
yes its correct to mention where it originated from, but the rest is just not relevant in a stylistic sense. if people want to learn about hammer dulcimer styles of east anglia ,they need to listen to bennington or cooper, its no use listening to katie or steve.
that is as s silly as saying if you want to learn about oscars woods one row style listen to billy bennington


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: johncharles
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:50 PM

The key bit for me is that "Steve is playing in the East Anglian one-row style. East Anglia is a region of England, where the one-row melodeon in the key of C retained it's popularity after the introduction of the now more common two row melodeon."
have a look at the other tune Owl's Green Hornpipe which is described as "This hornpipe is from the melodeon player Dolly Curtis via the playing of Katie Howson."


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 03:07 AM

Katie Howson is the ideal person to talk about one row melodeon and in particular oscar woods.
The Instruments that were most common in this area[east anglia] were the one row melodeon, the two row button accordion and the hammered dulcimer,I cannot think of a single traditional concertina player who was collected, so I am not sure what the basis of an east anglian traditional style is on the Concertina[ IS IT ANGLO? ENGLISH? DUET?]I dont think there is such a thing, as an east anglian concertina style.
Scan Tester would be an example of one particular southern english style,[possibly the only one] but he was not [as far as i know] east anglian.
John Charles it is very difficult to illustrate a hammered dulcimer style on a one row melodeon, what katie should be able to do well, is to talk about and illustrate two row and one row styles, because she has absorbed and played with players like dolly curtis, and can play both instruments, undoubtedly some of her own personality and style will enter in to it , but that would be the case with any player.
John, the two row melodeon was in my opinion as popular as the one row, Font played a two row, Cecil Pearl played a 2 row, Dolly Curtis[ if my memory serves me right] played a Double Ray,Percy Brown played a 2 row
Oscar was the main man on the one row,and fred pearce, and more latterly Cyril Barber, Oscar was in my opinion a superior player to Cyril.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Alan Day
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 04:07 AM

So in your opinion John you think that there is an East Anglian style of playing and particularly on a one row melodion, the very thing I recently posted for discussion. There is much to be learnt on the use of the one row style of playing on the Anglo and like Dick I have never really heard it refereed to.
Listening to the wonderful playing of Phillippe Bruno(not sure of the spelling here) in French Canadian style on a one row melodion, there are similarities in the playing techniques.
Al


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 04:16 AM

if one were to analyse one row button accordion playing there is a limit to its possibilities[ no cross rowing for example] but there is considerable scope for right hand octave and or chordal work and or decoration.
the decoration could possibly have some similarities to both harmonica and other accordion techniques[ 2 different fingers for same button[ providing action is good enough]and using note above in same direction for ornaments, of course this may not be following faithfully in a particular style, but my idea of music is to discover and find my own way, but each to their own.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Howard Jones
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 04:18 AM

Dick, you seem to be implying that a tune learned from a hammered dulcimer player should only be played on dulcimer, in that person's style. Why shouldn't one of Billy Bennington's tunes be played on melodeon or fiddle or anything else for that matter? We know that the traditional musicians themselves gathered tunes from wherever they could, they certainly weren't bothered about whether it was a "dulcimer tune" or a "fiddle tune".

I think it's probably true that when the English Country Music revivial started there was a lot less concern about individual styles. It may have been true of those at the forefront who were actually going out and finding traditional musicians, but most of us got it second-hand from Old Swan Band and others. It is only as more recordings become available that people have started to look more closely at individual styles. For those who want to, there is now a lot more information and study opportunities than there once were. Nevertheless I feel that most musicians want to develop their own style, picking up the best of what they hear from both traditional and revival players, rather than imitate one particular "old boy".


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 05:39 AM

good points howard, but if people are going to teach and say this is the east anglian style of billy bennington[hypothetical example] the best way to do that is either on that instrument or through recordings of billy bennington .
it would be ridiculous for me to try and teach carthys guitar style on my concertina, do you get my point.
personally i try and find my own style, and whilst i would listen to a lot of traditional musicians and singers and hopefully unconsciously absorb, going along to a workshop to copy a particular style doesnt really appeal to me, though i can see its uses as a stepping stone to developing their own style for people.so i supoose it depends how the pupil use the information.
there will always be people who want to faithfully copy oscar woods[that is their choice] but it doesnt appeal to me, however acquainting oneself with different traditional styles as a way of developing an individual style, that is more my cup of tea.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Vic Smith
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 05:57 AM

Scan Tester would be an example of one particular southern english style,[possibly the only one]

Scan wasn't even the only one within his family. His brothers played anglo-concertina and Scan told me that he thought that his brother Trayton was a much better player than he would ever be. He also mentioned a number of other players that he used to play with in his younger days.
The problem as far as Sussex and other parts of southern England is concerned is that the playing of dance tunes does not seem to have been extensively collected or recorded. This is particularly surprising when one considers how many superb singers and songs were recorded in Sussex and the surrounding counties. There are no recordings or notation of Sussex or Kent hammer dulcimer players, yet I have heard old singers and musicians talk about them. Apparently there were six amongst the estate workers in a place near Cowden Pound but they were never recorded but they played together. Recordings of fiddle players in Sussex are thin on the ground, yet the tune manuscripts of C18 & 19th that have been unearthed here call for some considerable technique on the fiddle.
The survival of a tradition depends of the survival of its function and the need to have musicians playing for stepping in out-of-the-way pubs in East Anglia ensures that the tradition continued there when it went into decline elsewhere - but we also owe a great deal to enthusiatic amateurs like Keith Summers and his ilk who saw the value of this music and spent many weekends seeking it out and recording it before the renewal of interest in southern English dance music came along.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: johnadams
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 06:14 AM

GSS wrote   it would be ridiculous for me to try and teach carthys guitar style on my concertina, do you get my point.

Maybe so, but that doesn't mean that the style of one instrument can't influence the playing of another. I recorded Lizzie Higgins singing some songs which were very definitely influenced stylistically by the piping of her father. Chris Coe's hammer dulcimer playing affects the style of my fiddling and she in turn took stylistic influences from fiddler Willy Taylor.

Surely, nobody in a living tradition (if we consider that to be what we're playing) wants to emulate just one player. Most teaching of instrumental playing is about learning to play the instrument to a standard. The following stage is to use the next few decades to learn to play it properly using all the stylistic tools in one's toolkit.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Alan Day
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 07:21 AM

It is the limitations of the one row system that have developed greater use of double, or triple notes decoration and as you suggest GSS more use of right hand chords.It is this aspect of the one row playing techniques that interest me. It is a progression from one note style right hand and left hand chord style. I have no intention of copying it only to use the techniques to enhance my own style of play. (I will let others decide if that exists).
Al


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Howard Jones
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 07:44 AM

Of course if one is going to teach a specific instrumental style, whether Billy Bennington's or Martin Carthy's, then it has to be on the appropriate instrument. I'm not aware of anyone attempting to do otherwise. However that's not to say that aspects of their playing, such as phrasing and ornamentation, can't be adopted on other instruments.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 08:56 AM

howard ,my response was to john charles video in which i got the impression, possibly incorrectly, that he was saying exactly that,it surprised me because i dont think katie would have done that anyway.
i agree with vic, and john[up to a point] stylistic influences can be transferred from similiar instruments, i have used certain aspects of uillean pipe playing on the concertina[but they are both reed instruments].
hammerd dulcimer techniques could maybe be transferred to tenor banjo, or vice versa, but in my opinion button accordion and hammered dulcimer are too different for it be a successful transposition[ that is just my opinion]it is also my opinion [and i dont know whether this happened or didnt happen but i got this impression from john charles video and comments]that the best way to learn a style on the hammered dulcimer is to learn it from a player of that instrument, how could i possibly demonstrate string techniques successfully on a concertina?


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: treewind
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 09:12 AM

"tree wind, I lived in East Anglia from 1978 to 1989, I remember John Howson arriving from Liverpool, about 1979/ 1980.
I think John has done a comprehensive job collecting and recording singers from East Anglia.
however I don't recall you at all, where were you living at the time? "

Completely irrelevant, unless you are saying that anyone who didn't live in East Anglia at that time isn't entitled to an opinion, which would rule out most contributors to this thread. As it happens, during much of the time period you mention I was living in Essex, Cambridgeshire and Suffolk and I owned and listened to recordings of East Anglian musicians amongst others.

Next you mention a HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE (your caps). That's all you have. What are the concrete possibilities? I don't think the Howson's workshop weekends claim to teach a specific or generic East Anglian style, nothing done under the auspices of Suffolk Folk makes any such claim, and the EFDSS aren't likely to run any teaching event that claims to lay down the law about East Anglian music.

As mention by johncharles above, I have run a couple of workshops at a "Melodeons and More" weekend. The subject matter was tunes from an unpublished manuscript from Norfolk, and any comments on playing style were quite generic in relation to playing for dance or specific melodeon or concertina technique. As neither Katie nor I made any claims that this was specifically East Anglian, still less the style of a particular player, I'm not sure whether that workshop (and those of other tutors that weekend) was a good thing or a bad thing in your opinion. In the end everyone comes out having learned something (hopefully), but what they've learned is certainly not how to play in some uniform standard style.

I entirely agree that anyone wanting to study the style of a region should listen to traditional musicians from that region, but I don't think anybody's disputing that, nor the value of John Howson's work in collecting that material and making it available.

Interesting comment about concertina style in a place where nobody played concertina; I rather think that if a concertina player listened hard to all the Norfolk and Suffolk melodeon, dulcimer and fiddle recordings available and learned tunes from those recordings, they'd be entitled to call their style East Anglian. As Johnny says, musicians most certainly do pick up style from players of other instruments.

Executive summary: I don't think there is a problem, unless it's that not enough new players are listening to the older ones and I don't even know if that's true.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Vic Smith
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 10:02 AM

Anahata wrote:-
"Interesting comment about concertina style in a place where nobody played concertina; I rather think that if a concertina player listened hard to all the Norfolk and Suffolk melodeon, dulcimer and fiddle recordings available and learned tunes from those recordings, they'd be entitled to call their style East Anglian."


This is perfectly true. Someone called Alan Day ("Who he?" I hear you all ask) used to play with a band called Rosbif. They were a bunch of southern English musicians playing Central French dance music with a certainty of authentic style that even the French found surprising. Now whilst all the others played things like accordion diatonique, vielle-a-rous, cornemuse and other French bagpipes, Alan sat there with his anglo-concertina which - as far as I know - has no precedent in the music of Auvergne, Limousin etc. yet his playing fitted in fine with all the others.

How did he make it work? Well, he may call in here and tell us. But then all the manuscript music from English sources that Johnny Adams has done so much to promulgate show that these tunes were around long before the concertina and the one-row melodeon were invented, so they also had to find their place in English music at one time.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 10:43 AM

Interesting comment about concertina style in a place where nobody played concertina; I rather think that if a concertina player listened hard to all the Norfolk and Suffolk melodeon, dulcimer and fiddle recordings available and learned tunes from those recordings, they'd be entitled to call their style East Anglian.
I disagree, there is no basis for any such description as an east anglian concertina style,any more than there is a basis for an Isle of Man concertina style, or an isle of wight concertina style,or a lundy island flute style.
Treewind,if you wish to rewrite history and invent a traditional style, please dont expect me to agree with you, so we must disagree amicably, good afternoon.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Vic Smith
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 11:21 AM

I would have thought that the above statement was a bit much coming from someone who plays Irish tunes on the English concertina, for which there is - I believe - very little precedent in the Irish tradition, whereas the Anglo-German concertina is ubiquitous, particularly in County Clare

The English concertina and the Anglo-German Concertina share the same name but call for radically different approaches on the part of the player.

This is not to say that Irish tunes cannot be played on the English concertina. Indeed, the person who posted makes quite a good fist of doing so.

The thing about the tradition is that it changes. Within living memory there were no banjos in Irish music. Now look at the situation.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 11:21 AM

Someone called Alan Day ("Who he?" I hear you all ask) used to play with a band called Rosbif.

Indeed - and then in GIG CB (George Inn Gigantic Ceilidh Band) - which had some of the same musicians in it. Great music - and Alan still plays it fantastically well.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 12:02 PM

vic i play what i like but i dont describe it as playing in an X traditional style.
to quote frank sinatra "i do it my way" and have been criticised by some for not sounding like an anglo, or not playing in the proscribed manner of noel hill.
and now to quote Dave Bryant, remember him[the tito gobbi of the balls pond road]" I would like to see someone stop me from singing"


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Alan Day
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 12:03 PM

Not quite right Mr Fly
George Inn Giant Ceilidh Band.
Good luck at Herga Tonight
Thanks for your comments Vick re French Traditional Dance Music.
When we started most of the more recent trends in French Music line up was French Bagpipes, Hurdy Gurdy, Melodion/ Accordion and fiddle. When we started Rosbif the original idea was for me to play melodion and you will hear me playing a bit on the first record. I soon realised that most of what I was playing could be played on the Anglo and by sometimes playing in sixth's create a different sound against the drones of the pipes and hurdy gurdy. This of course came from experimentation. Imagine the response when half way through an evening in Paris where they were expecting English music, that we started playing French music ,the dances requiring no introduction, or calling. We got a terrific response as the music was a slightly different sound to what they were used to and such a surprise for them. They were of course calling us "Rosbif" then (in fun) so the name stuck for the band.
I have some recordings of Jean Megly playing French music on his Duet Concertina and there are many players now playing French Music on concertinas. I doubt very much that I was the first.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 12:06 PM

Only Giant, Alan? I could have sworn it was Gigantic.

Charlwood tonight for me - see you there?


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 12:43 PM

finally,it looks like people were enjoying stowmarket folk weekend, the museum[ which i know well, i used to live in stowmarket] is a good venue, and the pedestrianised centre is ideal for street dancing.i hope the festival continues to be a success.


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Alan Day
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 01:20 PM

I always enjoy the Step Dancing and one day I may I may have a go at demonstrating my private attempts.
Al


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 01:21 PM

Mmm... I've seen some of your private attempts, dearest - not always a pretty sight. (Gets coat).


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: Tootler
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 05:34 PM

[pedant_alert]
I should hope you are not playing in the "proscribed manner of Noel Hill", Dick.

After all, something that is proscribed is something that is forbidden!
[/pedant_alert]


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Subject: RE: east anglian styles
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 07:26 AM

prescribed. sorry.


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