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Tech: fRoots message board down?
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Subject: Tech: fRoots From: Dave Hanson Date: 12 Nov 11 - 10:06 AM I've been unable to access the fRoots message board for two days, anyone know anything ? Thanks, Dave H |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots From: Will Fly Date: 12 Nov 11 - 10:08 AM It's still down - possibly a server problem. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots From: GUEST,Ralphie Date: 12 Nov 11 - 10:16 AM Yep....It's a server problem apparently, and Ian has lost his house phone too! Serves him right for moving to Bristol, If you ask me. Won't be fixed until after the weekend apparently. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots From: GUEST Date: 12 Nov 11 - 03:41 PM I seem to remember from previous occasions when it has gone AWOL that the fRoots Forum is hosted on Mondomix's servers in France, where nobody is likely to work on a weekend or in the summer. That's what you get from it being a more civilized country ;-) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Dave Hanson Date: 13 Nov 11 - 07:01 AM Does anyone really care except Ian Anderson and Vic Smith et al ? Dave H |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: SteveMansfield Date: 13 Nov 11 - 07:35 AM Does anyone really care except Ian Anderson and Vic Smith et al ? *sigh* ... at least we managed to get a few posts in before the anti-fRoots lot turned up. Even if you don't agree with the editorial policies or music coverage or personalities or choice of aftershave of the fRoots team, surely Mudcat is at least an appropriate alternative channel to attempt to discover information about an outage on their servers? I despair of MudCat sometimes, I really do ... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Reinhard Date: 13 Nov 11 - 07:37 AM Yes, I do. But then, because of that, you'll probably put me into the "et al" pigeon hole which is oh so convenient for anyone not of one's opinion. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,JM Date: 13 Nov 11 - 07:55 AM But Dave, you were the original poster!! You obviously care enough to try to access the board a number of times, and then post about it on here. Or were you just trying to visit to to check how much you don't care about it? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Dave Hanson Date: 13 Nov 11 - 08:48 AM I was just curious, I look in now and again, I don't actually disagree with anything about fRoots and it's message boards but seriously there are probably only about a couple of dozen regular contributors and the Mudcat gets more posts in an hour than fRoots usually does in a week. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Bonzo3legs Date: 13 Nov 11 - 08:50 AM No great loss is it! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 13 Nov 11 - 11:18 AM There are things wrong with both the fRoots Forum and with the Mudcat Forum, but both also have their strengths. I (like Dave Hanson) post in both forums and find it peculiar that the tone of the fRoots forum towards Mudcat is often a superior and sneering one (and I have objected to this strongly in the fRoots Forum) and that fRoots cannot be mentioned in Mudcat without strong and usually unsupported negative comments appearing here (and I have objected to this on Mudcat and do again now.) It's not a competition; both have their good and bad points. Can those who want to support only one of them do so and not slag off the other? Can those who see the benefit of posting in both just accept that they are different animals both vital in their different ways to the communication of ideas and information about matters pertaining to folk and traditional music? The straightforward answer to the opening post is that the Froots Forum is down and it won't get fixed until after the weekend as it's hosted in Paris by Mondomix, unlike the rest of the site. Mondomix very short staffed as they've had to let a lot of people go. There are plans - as yet at the early stage - about moving it to another server which might be safer in the long term. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 13 Nov 11 - 12:14 PM Dave Hanson wrote "Mudcat gets more posts in an hour than fRoots usually does in a week." In a similar way, one might write that Lady Gaga has more people listening to her recordings in an hour than Eliza Carthy does in a week. That makes Lady Gaga a more popular singer than Eliza, but it doesn't necessarily make her a better one. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Jane Bird (without cookie) Date: 13 Nov 11 - 01:47 PM Yes I care if the fRoots forum is unavailable, I read it (and Mudcat) fairly regularly, because I'm interested in what is being said. Or was that a rhetorical question? :-) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 13 Nov 11 - 02:21 PM Bristol would be a bit out of the way for the London-centric wouldn't it? Mudcat proves that quantity and quality are definitely not the same thing, |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: catspaw49 Date: 13 Nov 11 - 02:31 PM Just out of curiosity.......... Why don't y'all set up a Facebook page as Max did. Any smaller forum like Mudcat (or fRoots) is bound to have server/software problems so why not go the backup? That also eliminates the Mudcat complaints too......or am I fucked up here? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Folknacious Ken minus cookie Date: 13 Nov 11 - 04:27 PM Can I say that i) the fRoots Forum appears to be working again, ii) I too am perplexed as to why "Dave Hanson" started this thread, unless he was hoping somebody would tell him fRoots has gone out of business (it clearly hasn't), and iii) I find "Vic Smith's" blue text very annoying, its as if he's shouting louder than everybody else. Now stand at ease, troop. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Ken again Date: 13 Nov 11 - 04:32 PM PS "catspaw49" there is a Facebook page for fRoots, but nobody seems to have thought of posting anything about the out(r)age there. Which may or may not prove some/any thing!! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Arkie Date: 13 Nov 11 - 04:44 PM I have not been checking the fRoots Forum. I intend to start when it is running again. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:03 PM Although I have no like at all for Ian Anderson, it should be mentioned that he has been responsible for keeping alive a magazine that started as Southern Rag in 1979, then later became Folk Roots in 1985 and in 1998 became fRoots. My understanding is that in order to keep it going he began to 'cover' world music, a decision that peed off some people. Well, listen up, folkies. The magazine wouldn't be there at all had he not done that. It's very easy to criticize the man for his decisions. The ultimate slap in the face to Ian--who gets more crap thrown his way than any one person deserves--would have been to start a magazine and show him how it's really done. I see no one has done that. So maybe it's time for his detractors to put up or shut up. That anyone would rejoice in his web forum being down sucks. I was banned from there a few years back for seven (?) words, all of which appear in elementary school dictionaries, and as far as Ian was concerned that was it. So be it. You want to call him whatever--to his face and using your own name--be my guest. But to rejoice in another man's misfortune does not appeal to me at all, and colonial that I am, I think it is also beneath you who do so. IMO Bruce Murdoch |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Steve Shaw Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:13 PM Please try not to be such a confounded, immature idiot, Dick. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:47 PM "Does anyone really care except Ian Anderson and Vic Smith et al ?" To be expected from Dave Hansen et al |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Norman (without cookie) Date: 14 Nov 11 - 01:54 AM I do care about the fRoots forum, and its temp absence, and will be glad at its reappearance later. The level of spite and bitterness some of the above posters have shown is laughable, and quite pathetic. The only thing missing is the resurrection of some slight arising from an indifferent review given by the mag umpteen years ago...... No wonder Americans think we Brits are barmy. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: NormanD Date: 14 Nov 11 - 03:38 AM It's back up now. The broygis will have to take a back seat, continue with its muttered resentments, and await the next opportunity. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Ralphie Date: 14 Nov 11 - 04:10 AM Well said Bruce. If you don't like a magazine (of any flavour) Don't buy it! Nobody's twisting your arm or digging in your wallet for cash. 90% of the magazines on newstands here in the UK Just don't interest me...So I walk on by. I certainly don't write in to message boards and complain that "Railway Weekly" doesn't cater for my needs/views. As you say. If you don't like fRoots, Go and do your own magazine. Lots of people in the UK have tried. Some are quite succesful, Living Tradition being one. Some flourish briefly and then go to the wall for varying reasons. That Southern Rag/Folk Roots/fRoots has survived for so long is a testimony to the tenacity of Ian. Yes, I subscribe, and although only probably only 50% of the articles tick my personal preferences, the other 50% I find (by and large) well researched and inciteful. But, I do have an enquiring mind and welcome new insights into music that I may not yet have heard. I certainly wouldn't bitch about it. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 14 Nov 11 - 04:18 AM "I do care about the fRoots forum, and its temp absence, and will be glad at its reappearance later. The level of spite and bitterness some of the above posters have shown is laughable, and quite pathetic. The only thing missing is the resurrection of some slight arising from an indifferent review given by the mag umpteen years ago...... No wonder Americans think we Brits are barmy." It's good that it's back up, but please, Norman, take a good look on that board and you will find MANY very nasty comments about Mudcat and Mudcatters on there, who are normally described as 'fuckwits' as I recall. I have no idea why those who post on fRoots even bother to lower themselves to 'our' level by posting here, so intellectual do they consider themselves to be.... And of course, folk music is all about intellectualism, right? I mean the first Peasant who ever hummed a tune, then put a few words to his tune WAS an 'Intellectual' right? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Folknacious Ken still minus cookie Date: 14 Nov 11 - 04:36 AM you will find MANY very nasty comments about Mudcat and Mudcatters on there Oh do come on, let's have a sense of proportion here. If you're of a paranoid disposition and have many, many hours on your hands to trawl through all the archived postings, you could probably come up with a few, but then likely you'll find references to what caused them to be posted in the first place. Just like here really, but in less volume and minus certain "characters", which may be interconnected factors. On the other hand, why not use the time to get out an instrument and go and make some music, or organise a club or a festival, or run a magazine . . . |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 14 Nov 11 - 05:46 AM All I'm saying is that fRoots can hardly br surprised if they get nasty comments said, when Ian has allowed so many unpleasant things to be said about Mudcat, even joining in himself on many an occasion, which is something that Max *never* does here. Anyway, his board is open again now, I beliee, so it's probably best you whizz on over there. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: matt milton Date: 14 Nov 11 - 06:12 AM "My understanding is that in order to keep it going he began to 'cover' world music, a decision that peed off some people" I'd be amazed if that were true. (World music, like folk, has never exactly been a moneyspinner. It's only in the last 5 years that it's started to throw off its terminal unfashionability). Isn't it more likely that such a move simply coincided with editor and staff and contributors' generally broadening their musical horizons? After all, the 80s was when "world music" (as a flawed but practical term) was coined. Everything I've seen of (inside) magazines has taught me that what keeps magazines going has far less to do with what they are ostensibly about, and much more to do with content, vision, panache, design, ambition, hard work, luck etc. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: matt milton Date: 14 Nov 11 - 06:16 AM oh, and it's simply not true to suggest that you'll find loads of nasty comments about mudcat and mudcatters on the fRoots forum. You'll find the occasional (and I mean once in a blue moon) oblique reference to "that other place", say. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Jon Date: 14 Nov 11 - 06:19 AM broadening their musical horizons? I'm not even sure what that means... Anyway, my guess is that froots mag simple followed the direction the editors wanted it to follow. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST Date: 14 Nov 11 - 06:20 AM You could be right, Matt. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Ralphie Date: 14 Nov 11 - 06:35 AM It still comes back to the point. If you dont like a particular magazine, don't buy it. Don't go its forum (If it's got one) Just ignore it. I don't buy "Heat" magazine for instance. Nor "The Sun" Just don't bother with it. fRoots stopped being a vehicle for English/UK musics many years ago. (hence the dropping of the word "Folk") It is a magazine that encompasses various music from around the world. I personally find it interesting. If people don't...just ignore it! Now where's my copy of Kerrang. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Will Fly Date: 14 Nov 11 - 06:37 AM I don't buy "Heat" magazine for instance. Nor "The Sun" Are you sure, Ralphie - are you telling the truth here...? Mmm? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Ralphie Date: 14 Nov 11 - 06:50 AM OK...Have a little sneaky look in the newsagents when nobody's looking!!! Collar turned up...Hat pulled down, wearing shades. Mea Culpa! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 14 Nov 11 - 07:03 AM Ralph wrote:- "fRoots stopped being a vehicle for English/UK musics many years ago." Did it, Ralph? Or did you mean exclusively English/UK musics? My impression is that if you were to count the number of articles on Britfolk against World music in fRoots in 2012 and compare the percentage now against 5 years ago or 10 years ago, you would find that the proportion devoted to British artists has increased substantially. There are fairly obvious reasons for this including the large upsurge of interesting new young British singers and musicians, the spread of performance of British folk music far beyond its folk club base and the huge reduction in touring foreign artists partly due to the increased difficulty in obtaining work permits/visas and partly the economic climate and, as Matt has mentioned, the fact that World Music was a convenient marketing devise without a natural large devoted fan base. Ian cannot afford to employ staff reporters or to commision articles so he has to sit back and hope that articles will be submitted though he does make suggestions on topics. He has mentioned this imbalance - as he sees it - in circulars to regular contributors, but without so many foreign musicians touring and with a reducing affordability of contributors travelling abroad at their own expense to hear the interesting music out there, a certain amount of British retrenchment is inevitable. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Bonzo3legs Date: 14 Nov 11 - 07:06 AM The "world music" coining has done no favours for English Folk Music at all. It's amazing the regard some toothless one, strumming a one stringed instrument (home made of course) can get........simply because......... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Spleen Cringe Date: 14 Nov 11 - 07:13 AM After all, Ralphie... Heat is the Housewive's Choice! Coat. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: matt milton Date: 14 Nov 11 - 07:13 AM "broadening their musical horizons? I'm not even sure what that means..." eg I got into bluegrass and country through playing fiddle with a bunch of friends who were into it. this led me into old-time music, which in turn got me into English folk music, because they had shared roots. I then got massively into the blues (which I'd always thought was boring simplistic old man's music when I was young and foolish). Then I checked out African music, starting with Malian kora and guitar stuff, which made a lot of sense to me, because it sounded very bluesy. Then neighbouring African musics (like Congolese rumba and stuff). Once you get into North African music, then that gives you an insight into the music of the Middle East. etc etc One thing leads to another. In each case I'm not sure I could have enjoyed that particular type of music if I hadn't already got used to the one before. If I had started editing a music magazine 20 years ago, it would have been indie, punk and hip-hop-based. If I'd carried on editing a music magazine, and it had continued to reflect my tastes, it'd be very different now to then. that's what I meant by broadening one's musical horizons. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: NormanD Date: 14 Nov 11 - 08:21 AM Quote: "It's amazing the regard some toothless one, strumming a one stringed instrument (home made of course) can get........simply because........." That just about sums it up for me, the view of the 'old guard' (to put it kindly). If you don't think that music from places other than the UK is interesting, then that's up to you. But I find it somewhat ignorant to classify it so crudely, and contemptuously. The equivalent of finger-in-your-ear-and-Aran-sweater-and-pewter-beer-mug, no? For the record, Juldeh Camara (on the ritti, a one-stringed fiddle) and guitarist Justin Adams simply rock. You don't like? Your loss. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Ralphie Date: 14 Nov 11 - 08:29 AM Vic. I stand corrected....left out the word "Exclusively" Woops! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Ralphie Date: 14 Nov 11 - 08:44 AM Mr Milton speaketh good sense. An interest in one particular genre of music doesn't preclude the discovery of others. When I used to do Womad fest for the Beeb many years ago, I would see the line up list at the beginning of the weekend. 70% of the artists I'd never heard of, let alone pronounce. How joyous was it to discover music that I would otherwise never have heard. Sometimes it produced anomalies. Exactly which Mic do you use for a semi-circular gourd, floating upside down in a vat of water? Koras through a Wah-Wah pedal were a bit odd too! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 14 Nov 11 - 08:47 AM Norman D wrote:- "For the record, Juldeh Camara (on the ritti, a one-stringed fiddle) and guitarist Justin Adams simply rock." Simply stunning the sounds that Juldeh gets from his riti! You might think that he has adapted his style to sound like a blues harmonica, but if you go to West Africa you will hear lots of riti players, mainly accompanying female singers - OK not all as good as Juldeh - but they all get that sobbing bluesy sound (not that I am as convinced as others that the blues originated in West Africa, but that's another story). As Norman says if you are missing out on Juldeh's playing it is your loss, but even better in my opinion is the current playing form of Toumani Diabaté and his kora. He is still on tour in England at the moment. Miss him at your peril. British folk music is my first and undying love; I have been running a weekly folk club booking guests every week for over 40 years, but that does not make me think that traditional music stops at Dover or that The "world music" coining has done no favours for English Folk Music. ***** Oh! and dance bands! Does anyone remember Juldeh Camara playing with Musa M'Boob (another Gambian - who now lives about three streets away from me) and Roger Watson in Boka Halat? They were the best folk dance band that I have danced to in a long time. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Jon Date: 14 Nov 11 - 09:14 AM An interest in one particular genre of music doesn't preclude the discovery of others. Sure it doesn't, nor does it prevent revisiting stuff you were already aware of. In my case, for a couple, I didn't particularly take to Irish jigs and reels when I first heard them although I play in Irish sessions now, I'm enjoy a greater range of classical music than I used to. On the other hand I'm less inclined towards pop music than I was as a kid. The way I see it is that this type of addition and in some cases filtering out is a process at least every one I know musically goes through and one that I'd imagine is the normal for most people. The difficulty I can have with something like Matt's statement is that I can (perhaps very unfairly times - so sorry Matt if I was doing that) read into it some implication that those who haven't extended their (lets call it) "folk inclusion" in some way by extension must not have "broadened their musical horizons". |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 14 Nov 11 - 11:13 AM "you will find MANY very nasty comments about Mudcat and Mudcatters on there" If there is a mention of Mudcat in anyway, I think they get deleted pretty swiftly..... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 14 Nov 11 - 11:35 AM If there is a mention of Mudcat in anyway, I think they get deleted pretty swiftly..... I believe this statement to be untrue. Could BTNG cite any concrete examples of this? Surely if this were the case then a posting which criticises fRoots posters for their attitude towards Mudcat would be removed pretty quickly? Yet my post - the third one in the thread at http://froots.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6281 from October 13th remains in place. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Emberto Uco Date: 14 Nov 11 - 12:00 PM "wankers, wankers everywhere and not a 'stop to think'... " Hmmm.. Mudcat versus fRoots ??? Do we really have to take sides ????? Now if only "Digital Spy" Forums had a 'Folk' section... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 14 Nov 11 - 12:53 PM If you say so.....I said I think, by the way, I did not say it was a definite, I've been wrong before Besides which I'm really not THAT interested, more like an idle curiousity than anything. GUEST, Emerto Uco, what an unfortunate name to parody |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,The Lurker Date: 14 Nov 11 - 01:11 PM I lurk on both fRoots and Mudcat because I love folk music of all descriptions (even some of the scary world-y stuff) and want to know what is going on. I've never posted on either site and have never liked the 'vigorous competition' between them. But I have been moved to come on here and speak because over the last couple of days when I couldn't access f-Roots, I suddenly realised I didn't miss it at all. In fact, it's absence was a bit of a relief. It's only when it's peevish, supercilious, sigh-you-lot-know-nothing-and don't deserve-us tone was taken away that I realised just how unecessary, unpleasant and unwanted that all-too-familiar f-Roots voice is. There's some awful arrogant nonsense on Mudcat, too. But it's just a bunch of people with different views and sometimes getting a bit too catty and up themselves about it.Far too often for my liking f-Roots seems to have an agenda and a bunch of axes to grind that are really the stuff of the playground. I know a lot of people happily contribute to both fora and that is a good thing. What I'm talking about mostly seems to stem from the admnistrator of the fRoots board who seems to have an unecessarily complex attitude to music and life. If I had to sum it up, I'd say Mudcat's basic approach is to ask 'is it good or bad?' The f-Roots tone is a lot more cynical and suspicious and asks ''what reprehensible motives lie behind this?'' Over the last few days I have realised I much prefer the former. Thank you, Mudcat. Now 've lost my virginity, I won't be so coy in future in contributing to your discussions, even if you are all far more learned and informed than I am! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Ken at bay Date: 14 Nov 11 - 01:58 PM This is obviously going to get even messier!! The difference between M****t and fR***s is that there's a point where you know for certain that'll happen over here, whereas over there somebody in charge will probably step up and say "oi, behave, that's not acceptable" and they'll usually be right. Hence less postings but more civility there, and that point where you just give up and go away over here, which is about to happen for me with this thread. Other than that, both are often interesting and sometimes useful. I always liked the bit in the small print in front of every paper fRoots which says "The views expressed in fRoots are those of individuals just like you; they are not necessarily those of the editorial staff, the product of a sound mind or a horse. Hey, wouldn't life be dull if we all had the same tastes in music?" |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 14 Nov 11 - 02:14 PM This is obviously going to get even messier!! It would be a pity if it did, Ken. What you say sums it all up so well that it should be allowed to be the final word on the matter (he says more in hope than in anticipation....) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Western Suze Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:39 PM matt milton said "it's simply not true to suggest that you'll find loads of nasty comments about mudcat and mudcatters on the fRoots forum." I believe this is normally true, but this tantrum here has caused an unusual little upswell of discussion over there at the moment. There is some documentation of Mudcat's refusal to moderate in even quite extreme cases, and how behaviour here can be seen by the wider world. It all ought to give some pause for thought, though I expect it will be water off a duck's back for identified culprits. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:21 PM "Mudcat's refusal to moderate in even quite extreme cases, and how behaviour here can be seen by the wider world" Mudcat isn't THAT important! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:21 PM You would attract slightly more sympathy for your cause, Dick, if you would kindly refrain from your gratuitous dissing (as above) of people who have chosen not to join this particular debate, either here or on Mudcat. You do that sort of thing here all too often, as we saw recently with your disgraceful Llig thread. You might convince some with your claim as to the reason for your banishment from froots, but then I could put forward a good case that Al Capone was only a bad boy because he didn't pay his taxes. Posted anything good to Concertina dot net recently? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:34 PM Mudcat might not be that important, but the fRoots boards tend to be self important |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: The Sandman Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:40 PM I am stating facts, not asking for sympathy, merely clarifying matters. Llig thread? you mean the idiot that dissed traditional english music and traditional irish musicians, what relevance has that, why do you bring that up?it has nothing to do with froots? what does have Concertina net to do with this? just another excuse to have ago at me?do you never get tired of it? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:58 PM Yes. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:59 PM And that's it from me to you on this thread, Dick. Nighty night! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Max Date: 15 Nov 11 - 08:25 PM I reached out to Ian last week to see if I could help in any way. Didn't hear back. I like fRoots, always have. Not sure why this conversation gets so tense or why anyone would care to be better than another in any sense. I think it's very important to have as much diversity as possible and that the collective output of all folk music fan sites and forums is what is the most accurate account of things as they are. If mudcat has gotten too big or dominates the conversation, that's due to everyone else's failures, and not my fault but rather a validation of my decisions. I contend that the very things people complain about are the very reason we are so successful. And for the record, my "refusal to moderate in even quite extreme cases" is called freedom of expression. And I am quite happy for my belief in this to be seen by the wider world. I understand how some are offended by this, as it forces a higher standard of accountability than some are capable of. Plus, it requires the bravery and humility to hear other peoples opinions without a filter, and it demands prudence to remain civil while disagreeing with those opinions and defending your positions. The vast majority of moderation request are what I call censorship. A few times per month, a message or a thread pops up that contains an opinion of an individual who saw a band or had a meal or attended a performance or purchased a product that they were not satisfied with. Invariably, a member of the band, owner of the pub, the festival organizer, a fan, or a friend, will contact me outraged that such a post is allowed to stay published and how dare I, often adding that I am an awful human being and that I should be sued or charged with a crime. I have even had my family threatened with physical violence from a person who went to the trouble and had the ability to find my actual home address. I am undeterred, my beliefs unwavering. I leave the posts because 1) they serve the members of this site who a spending their money on these products and services and that 2) I am a rational human being and know they are just opinions and 3) the threads are open and free for anyone and everyone to present a counter-opinion. It's called freedom. And frankly this is the very foundations of folk music. "The Man" censored it out or wouldn't write it down in the first place as news or history, so mothers sang it to their daughters and they sang it theirs. My service is to folk music, not you, and certainly -YES- the wider world should be aware of that before they come to visit my site. Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. ~Abraham Lincoln |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Ji Gong Date: 16 Nov 11 - 03:20 AM If you stay in the music threads and out of the BS section mudcat is a fine place full of kind, polite and eagerly helpful people. As far as I can tell the only ones complaining are the same ones that can't stay out of the arguments. Mudcat is like any other community. It will reflect what you put out. If you are kind, you will be met with kindness. Maybe more of us should look in the mirror. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Continuity Jones Date: 16 Nov 11 - 04:24 AM What's all this nonsense about Mudcat being free from censorship? Posts and threads are regularly deleted or halted - especially if they feature a certain troll who regularly posts her guff here. At least fRoots had the honesty to ban her, rather than censoring any slight word against her. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:00 AM Yeah, well, none of these places are, as far as I know, democracies. Somebody far less lazy than I am sets it up and invites me here. If I don't like the rules, or the ways moderators act, tuff titty. I can always set up my own board, with my rules, if I want. Which I don't. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:20 AM Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. ~Abraham Lincoln Max, Truly, I admire your position as stated above. Freedom of Expression is so clearly one of The Rights of Man (and, by coincidence, I am currently about two-thirds of the way through reading Thomas Paine's book. Goodness knows why I haven't read it before, it is really stimulating and well-written. Please read it, all of you). Another right of man is not to have one's personality and actions being the subject of clear defamation through identity theft. As you know, before you eventually took action this summer - very effectively, I might add, because this appears to have been stopped - this was happening through the Mudcat PM system. Freedom is the great aim, but sometimes to achieve it, mankind needs Responsibility by leaders or, in this case, administrators, and in some cases Action. Where would Freedom in the USA be if your country allowed freedom of entry to all those who wish the United States ill? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Max Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:57 AM Vic, You are so fond of recounting this story here and on fRoots that one might just think you lament that I took ACTION when something I was RESPONSIBLE for (the PM system) was effected, just because you'll eventually have to stop telling it. We have no borders though, I recognize no authority and made no promises of any particular nation or even ideology. The only unwelcome guests that I perceive are the ones that wish to do Folk ill. As is testament by the all the ill wishes upon me that we let stand in this forum. Perhaps much like burning the American flag being legal, they are reminders of just how much freedom you have here. So we're telling each other the same things. Freedom requires the RESPONSIBILITY of all involved. I'd be happy to strike a deal that we all turn our attention to that up one notch and call this conversation over. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 16 Nov 11 - 06:05 AM Max, You slightly overstate your case in saying that I persist in recounting this story - this is the first (and only) time since it occured - but you are right. It is time to move on. You dealt with it and I am thankful for that. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,THE LURKER Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:57 AM Some good posts here. Having read this and the thread about Mudcat on fRoots, would I be right in concluding there is no problem between 99 per cent of those who post on Mudcat and 99 per cent of those who post on fRoots? The problem seems to be between the editor of Folk Roots and about three people who contribute prolifically to Mudcat, no doubt based in some dim and distant 'folk war' that nobody else cared about at the time and the three or four active participants have themselves probably forgotten how it started. It's folk music's very own Schleswig-Holstein Question! A shame three or four individuals who chose to mark out their 'camps' so territorially should spoil it for everyone else. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 09:42 AM "A shame three or four individuals who chose to mark out their 'camps' so territorially should spoil it for everyone else." A shame there should one or two pompous arses who think themselves above the hoi poloi |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 16 Nov 11 - 09:52 AM > It's folk music's very own Schleswig-Holstein Question Brilliantly put, Lurker. Hope you can be enticed out of the dark kingdom of Lurk to post more often - |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Folknacious ex cook Date: 16 Nov 11 - 10:57 AM The problem seems to be between the editor of Folk Roots and about three people who contribute prolifically to Mudcat, I read it slightly differently in that the thread on Froots implies that the three individuals may have been banned from there because of complaints from other users about their behaviour. Laying the entire blame on their Editor seems a bit rich, then, even though the three in question seem to, but I suppose he's an easy target. But I do agree about individuals who spoil things for everybody else, like often happens on threads here. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Morris-ey Date: 16 Nov 11 - 11:15 AM From Max:"And for the record, my "refusal to moderate in even quite extreme cases" is called freedom of expression. And I am quite happy for my belief in this to be seen by the wider world. I understand how some are offended by this, as it forces a higher standard of accountability than some are capable of Plus, it requires the bravery and humility to hear other peoples opinions without a filter, and it demands prudence to remain civil while disagreeing with those opinions and defending your positions." "higher standards"?; "to remain civil"? Epic fail then... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: The Sandman Date: 16 Nov 11 - 11:26 AM let us get things straight, I have no problem with froots, Iam not very interested in their board and i rarely look at it, i have no ill feeling to ian anderson and i think his magazine does a GOOD job in promoting popularising and inevitably playing a part in roots music and its commercialisation. Im pleased that those people who enjoy his board are once again able to do so, each to their own, I agree with Ians international approach to trad music, and hope his magazine continues for along time. However,I take exception to people like steve shaw, who seem to delight in flaming and trolling and regurgitating ancient irrelevant trivia from other discussion forums. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 11:46 AM well apparently fRoots does ban something other than people, the use of a GMail account as an e-mail address, when registering for boards membership, something about a security nightmare...I. Anderson waffles on at great length about it, far more than is needed in my opinion, but in the same breath recommends the use of Hotmail! or Yahoo Mail!! Now talk about your security nightmares. Wasn't it Hotmail that got hacked into a few years back and it took Microsoft some fairly great length of time to realise it?....and Yahoo? well enough has been said about them to fill volumes. No, No, Anderson, it simply won't do. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Folknacious Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:00 PM Plot. Lost. Nurse! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:01 PM The plot's fine from this point of view. Thank You...next |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:17 PM Well that puts me in my place. Say goodnight to the folks, Gracie... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:17 PM BTNG wrote:- "well apparently fRoots does ban something other than people, the use of a GMail account as an e-mail address, when registering for boards membership, something about a security nightmare". Not my position to, I realise, but could I try to explain this? GMail is a favoured by the almost unbelievably high number of spammers that try to post their trash adverts etc. on the fRoots forum. (Copies of these attempts to register come to me, so I know). Attempts to join the forum are filtered manually by a volunteer who does this in her spare time. This sometimes does mean that there is a delay between attempts to register to join the forum but genuine posters do get through to join in the end. So yes, it is a "security nightmare" but the upside of that is that no spam posts appear on that forum.... .... or on this one for that matter, though how the adminstrators here manage to keep them out - especially with the ability to post as GUESTS - I really don't know. Actually, I don't want to know, because if the persistent spammers found this out, they may find a way around it. Whatever is wrong with both these forums, they are pretty much 100% spam free. Long may it remain so. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Edthefolkie Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:29 PM Er, regarding Vic's question up the thread somewhere - I didn't see Juldeh Camara with Boka Halat but I did see Musa, and Zem Audu, several times. How is Roger Watson these days? I have just been reading his Model Railway Club notes from our old school mag - 1964, oh God. And now, back to the fray chaps? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Spleen Cringe Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:32 PM I was avoiding this thread as I had made a few assumptions what it would be like, which was an example of Mudcat, ahem, not at its best. Actually I was wrong - with a few honourable and predictable exceptions, it's not that bad. As another person who posts both at fRoots and Mudcat, I don't see why there has to be any sort of dick swinging contest between the two, and I'd hazard a guess that neither Max nor Ian would want that either. Both fulfil different functions and that's ok: I certainly use them differently. I don't see any evidence that the fRoots board is peevish and supercilious as Lurker suggests (but then I would say that because I post there!). I reckon that's just a misreading of Ian's sometimes waspish humour. I also don't agree with the suggestion made elsewhere that Mudcat is full of deranged lunatics (though there are obviously a few: no names, no pack drill, don't feed 'em). I've overwhelmingly met some really decent folks here. Not that anyone asked, but I actually find that some of the posts I most enjoy reading (at either board) are by people who post on both - Vic and Matt springing to mind, for instance. Anyway, for something completely different, now I'm off to the Terrascope forum for a spot of psychtastic weirdness. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:35 PM Vic, I read Ian's posting, and it's a shame about the spamming, on both boards. I have a Yahoo account, but, I dunno, I keep hearing the security issues about them as well, funnily enough the same security nightmares, as GMail supposedly has, I say supposedly because, I must be one of the lucky ones, I've not had a problem yet. Now, you watch, having said that, I'll get a problem *LOL* Cheers! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Bonzo3legs Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:01 PM However Folk Roots magazine is well produced, even if many of the toothless wonders about whom articles are written are quickly passed over! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:12 PM Thanks for that erudite observation, Uncle Boko. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Max Date: 16 Nov 11 - 02:37 PM They are what you make them, just as anything else in life, they'll reflect what you bring in with you. An aside, if I may. Lurker, it would be a travesty if you just lurked. I am blown away by your insight, intellectual compassion, skillful, perhaps purposeful use of brevity, and your eloquent, articulate and polite manner of speech. It is just smart without making me feel stupid, bravo. We would love to have you as a member if you would care to consider it. We would be made richer, and the honor would be ours. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,999 Date: 16 Nov 11 - 03:04 PM AND, Max is gonna learn how to spell honour real soon, too. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Max Date: 16 Nov 11 - 04:33 PM and therefore and colour... we just had a meeting about the differences of our languages and how to build room for that into the mudcat 2.0 system just yesterday. I won't have to learn, the system will automate it. HA! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,999 Date: 16 Nov 11 - 04:50 PM LOL, Max. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:00 PM I just noticed that..." a dim and distant folk war...?" What you been smokin' then? Where do some people get their ideas? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Stewie Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:45 PM Max, will it also automatically correct such lapses as 'polite manor of speech'? --Stewie. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:54 PM Polite Manor, is just off the by-pass, on the other side of Basingstoke, many a fine house party was hosted there. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Max Date: 16 Nov 11 - 06:59 PM No, but it does self destruct... so we got that going for us. And quit teasing me. If you had any idea how much I type in day, you'd be amazed I got anything right. I used to have a volunteer just to correct my spelling errors. I'm growing. And I got pull around here, you should be careful, I got a big red button here that must do something dangerous that I'm just itching to push. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Max Date: 17 Nov 11 - 05:43 PM Boy, do I know how to close down a thread. Don't even have to use the Close Thread button. Just like my personal life, they scatter. This is why I keep my dog on a chain. Well, my mama says she loves me... but she could be lying too. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 17 Nov 11 - 07:05 PM ;-D |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 17 Nov 11 - 07:11 PM I was kidding and you know it, Max. You do a fantastic job with this site, there are not enough thanks in this world to offer you for providing the service. Sam (BTNG) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Stewie Date: 17 Nov 11 - 07:18 PM What Sam just said. --Stewie. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 17 Nov 11 - 10:07 PM Oh dear a troll.... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Stewie Date: 17 Nov 11 - 11:55 PM I'm not a bloody troll! I was simply echoing the remarks you made to Max. Get a grip! --Stewie. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Max Date: 18 Nov 11 - 01:53 AM SPAM, not a troll. We deleted it right after your previous post Stewie. BTNG was talking about that. Very different by the way, spam and troll. Spam has a rational intent and no emotions; trolls are insidious sociopaths who believe only in your discomfort. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Stewie Date: 18 Nov 11 - 04:15 AM My apologies to BTNG. --Stewie. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Dave Hanson Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:04 AM It's gone again, looks like because of the current economic climate fRoots message board is being turned off at weekends to save electricity. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Sam Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:22 AM Looks as though. FFS. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Jon Date: 19 Nov 11 - 05:17 AM It's giving "Erreur 503 - Service temporairement indisponible ou en maintenance" so it probably is down for maintenance. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 19 Nov 11 - 05:26 AM Dave Hanson écrit:- "It's gone again, looks like because of the current economic climate fRoots message board is being turned off at weekends to save electricity." Mais non! Á http://froots.net/phpBB2/index.php, il dit:- Serveur dédié Dedibox en maintenanceErreur 503 - Service temporairement indisponible ou en maintenanceLe site internet que vous contactez est actuellement en maintenance, merci de renouveller votre demande ultérieurement.Vive Mondomix! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Dave Hanson Date: 19 Nov 11 - 09:10 AM I don't speak much French Vic but when I posted earlier the 503 error wasn't there, just an, ' unavailable ' message. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Will Fly Date: 19 Nov 11 - 09:17 AM Ah but, Dave, you have to pay attention to Victorix when he describes how Mondomix affects fRootsixtisix... (with apologies to Goscinny and Uderzo) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 19 Nov 11 - 09:22 AM Ah but, Dave, you have to pay attention to Victorix when he describes how Mondomix affects fRootsixtisix... Gaul Almighty! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Dave Hanson Date: 19 Nov 11 - 09:27 AM Honi Soi Qui ? ah fuck it. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,999 Date: 19 Nov 11 - 11:52 AM Honi soit qui mal y pense. Old French It means (loosely) 'fu#k them wot thinks bad of it'. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Western Suze Date: 19 Nov 11 - 03:53 PM What is Mondomix? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 19 Nov 11 - 03:58 PM well Mondomix could be: http://www.mondomix.com/ an essential online resource for worldwide music and culture. Music, cinema, literature, society, travel, events, reports, artists. but in this case I think it's just a piss take of Asterix The Gaul |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 20 Nov 11 - 02:17 PM Mondomix host the fRoots Forum from Paris and presumably are still working on the maintenance that I mentioned in an earlier post (though there is a much less helpful notice on the site at the moment). Mondomix host a number of folk/world/roots music forum including the Charlie Gillette:Roots Around the World forum, a really useful forum for world music fans though since the death of Charlie and the demise of the BBC Radio London programme that was only continued for a few months after his death, it has less vitality than previously. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Jon Date: 20 Nov 11 - 03:18 PM Mondomix host the fRoots Forum from Paris and presumably are still working on the maintenance that I mentioned in an earlier post (though there is a much less helpful notice on the site at the moment). That notice is coming from the froots phpbb software and is complaining about a database table being broken. There is a chance Mondomix are not aware of this one. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Ken Date: 21 Nov 11 - 04:35 AM It was working again when I looked at it just now. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Ken again Date: 21 Nov 11 - 05:54 AM I spoke too soon, now it says "Froots is down for maintenance. Please excuse our dust... Please check back shortly!" So that's it then. Froots just needed a bit of dusting. Not unreasonable after 30 odd years I suppose, though a bit of a redecorate wouldn't do them any harm either, some new carpets and curtains and a lick of paint, clean the windows, fix the roof, stuff like that. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 21 Nov 11 - 06:33 AM It looks like the dusting is now complete - for the moment. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 21 Nov 11 - 02:32 PM It all looks nice and clean, sparkly infact Mr Anderson says: "Apologies. The fRoots Forum has been AWOL for a couple of days, presumably as a result of server glitches over in the Eurozone. Normal service hopefully now resumed. *touches wooden stake and consumes garlic . . . " |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Ken Date: 21 Nov 11 - 02:50 PM I think you will find that was last week's message - you need to use the scroll bar through a swamp of Mudcat-related stuff and a supportive message from Max. Today's one says "This board went AWOL again over the weekend. Mondomix who host it have today moved it to a new server and IP address, which took a little while to propogate around the net (which would sound jolly authoritative if I knew what it meant, I'm just being parrot-esque). Hopefully recent flakiness now sorted." |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 21 Nov 11 - 03:16 PM Yeah Ken, sorry about that, I probably wasn't prepared to wade through all the mudcat-related nonsense |
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Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 21 Nov 11 - 03:38 PM I wrote some way above this:- "Whatever is wrong with both these forums, they are pretty much 100% spam free. Long may it remain so. " ... and wouldn't you know, I have just spotted my first ever Mudcat spam posting in this thread....bet it is not there for many minutes! |
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