 sj |
||
|
||
Tech: fRoots message board down?
|
|
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Western Suze Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:39 PM matt milton said "it's simply not true to suggest that you'll find loads of nasty comments about mudcat and mudcatters on the fRoots forum." I believe this is normally true, but this tantrum here has caused an unusual little upswell of discussion over there at the moment. There is some documentation of Mudcat's refusal to moderate in even quite extreme cases, and how behaviour here can be seen by the wider world. It all ought to give some pause for thought, though I expect it will be water off a duck's back for identified culprits. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:21 PM "Mudcat's refusal to moderate in even quite extreme cases, and how behaviour here can be seen by the wider world" Mudcat isn't THAT important! |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:21 PM You would attract slightly more sympathy for your cause, Dick, if you would kindly refrain from your gratuitous dissing (as above) of people who have chosen not to join this particular debate, either here or on Mudcat. You do that sort of thing here all too often, as we saw recently with your disgraceful Llig thread. You might convince some with your claim as to the reason for your banishment from froots, but then I could put forward a good case that Al Capone was only a bad boy because he didn't pay his taxes. Posted anything good to Concertina dot net recently? |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:34 PM Mudcat might not be that important, but the fRoots boards tend to be self important |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: The Sandman Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:40 PM I am stating facts, not asking for sympathy, merely clarifying matters. Llig thread? you mean the idiot that dissed traditional english music and traditional irish musicians, what relevance has that, why do you bring that up?it has nothing to do with froots? what does have Concertina net to do with this? just another excuse to have ago at me?do you never get tired of it? |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:58 PM Yes. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:59 PM And that's it from me to you on this thread, Dick. Nighty night! |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Max Date: 15 Nov 11 - 08:25 PM I reached out to Ian last week to see if I could help in any way. Didn't hear back. I like fRoots, always have. Not sure why this conversation gets so tense or why anyone would care to be better than another in any sense. I think it's very important to have as much diversity as possible and that the collective output of all folk music fan sites and forums is what is the most accurate account of things as they are. If mudcat has gotten too big or dominates the conversation, that's due to everyone else's failures, and not my fault but rather a validation of my decisions. I contend that the very things people complain about are the very reason we are so successful. And for the record, my "refusal to moderate in even quite extreme cases" is called freedom of expression. And I am quite happy for my belief in this to be seen by the wider world. I understand how some are offended by this, as it forces a higher standard of accountability than some are capable of. Plus, it requires the bravery and humility to hear other peoples opinions without a filter, and it demands prudence to remain civil while disagreeing with those opinions and defending your positions. The vast majority of moderation request are what I call censorship. A few times per month, a message or a thread pops up that contains an opinion of an individual who saw a band or had a meal or attended a performance or purchased a product that they were not satisfied with. Invariably, a member of the band, owner of the pub, the festival organizer, a fan, or a friend, will contact me outraged that such a post is allowed to stay published and how dare I, often adding that I am an awful human being and that I should be sued or charged with a crime. I have even had my family threatened with physical violence from a person who went to the trouble and had the ability to find my actual home address. I am undeterred, my beliefs unwavering. I leave the posts because 1) they serve the members of this site who a spending their money on these products and services and that 2) I am a rational human being and know they are just opinions and 3) the threads are open and free for anyone and everyone to present a counter-opinion. It's called freedom. And frankly this is the very foundations of folk music. "The Man" censored it out or wouldn't write it down in the first place as news or history, so mothers sang it to their daughters and they sang it theirs. My service is to folk music, not you, and certainly -YES- the wider world should be aware of that before they come to visit my site. Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. ~Abraham Lincoln |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Ji Gong Date: 16 Nov 11 - 03:20 AM If you stay in the music threads and out of the BS section mudcat is a fine place full of kind, polite and eagerly helpful people. As far as I can tell the only ones complaining are the same ones that can't stay out of the arguments. Mudcat is like any other community. It will reflect what you put out. If you are kind, you will be met with kindness. Maybe more of us should look in the mirror. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Continuity Jones Date: 16 Nov 11 - 04:24 AM What's all this nonsense about Mudcat being free from censorship? Posts and threads are regularly deleted or halted - especially if they feature a certain troll who regularly posts her guff here. At least fRoots had the honesty to ban her, rather than censoring any slight word against her. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:00 AM Yeah, well, none of these places are, as far as I know, democracies. Somebody far less lazy than I am sets it up and invites me here. If I don't like the rules, or the ways moderators act, tuff titty. I can always set up my own board, with my rules, if I want. Which I don't. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:20 AM Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. ~Abraham Lincoln Max, Truly, I admire your position as stated above. Freedom of Expression is so clearly one of The Rights of Man (and, by coincidence, I am currently about two-thirds of the way through reading Thomas Paine's book. Goodness knows why I haven't read it before, it is really stimulating and well-written. Please read it, all of you). Another right of man is not to have one's personality and actions being the subject of clear defamation through identity theft. As you know, before you eventually took action this summer - very effectively, I might add, because this appears to have been stopped - this was happening through the Mudcat PM system. Freedom is the great aim, but sometimes to achieve it, mankind needs Responsibility by leaders or, in this case, administrators, and in some cases Action. Where would Freedom in the USA be if your country allowed freedom of entry to all those who wish the United States ill? |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Max Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:57 AM Vic, You are so fond of recounting this story here and on fRoots that one might just think you lament that I took ACTION when something I was RESPONSIBLE for (the PM system) was effected, just because you'll eventually have to stop telling it. We have no borders though, I recognize no authority and made no promises of any particular nation or even ideology. The only unwelcome guests that I perceive are the ones that wish to do Folk ill. As is testament by the all the ill wishes upon me that we let stand in this forum. Perhaps much like burning the American flag being legal, they are reminders of just how much freedom you have here. So we're telling each other the same things. Freedom requires the RESPONSIBILITY of all involved. I'd be happy to strike a deal that we all turn our attention to that up one notch and call this conversation over. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 16 Nov 11 - 06:05 AM Max, You slightly overstate your case in saying that I persist in recounting this story - this is the first (and only) time since it occured - but you are right. It is time to move on. You dealt with it and I am thankful for that. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,THE LURKER Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:57 AM Some good posts here. Having read this and the thread about Mudcat on fRoots, would I be right in concluding there is no problem between 99 per cent of those who post on Mudcat and 99 per cent of those who post on fRoots? The problem seems to be between the editor of Folk Roots and about three people who contribute prolifically to Mudcat, no doubt based in some dim and distant 'folk war' that nobody else cared about at the time and the three or four active participants have themselves probably forgotten how it started. It's folk music's very own Schleswig-Holstein Question! A shame three or four individuals who chose to mark out their 'camps' so territorially should spoil it for everyone else. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 09:42 AM "A shame three or four individuals who chose to mark out their 'camps' so territorially should spoil it for everyone else." A shame there should one or two pompous arses who think themselves above the hoi poloi |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 16 Nov 11 - 09:52 AM > It's folk music's very own Schleswig-Holstein Question Brilliantly put, Lurker. Hope you can be enticed out of the dark kingdom of Lurk to post more often - |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Folknacious ex cook Date: 16 Nov 11 - 10:57 AM The problem seems to be between the editor of Folk Roots and about three people who contribute prolifically to Mudcat, I read it slightly differently in that the thread on Froots implies that the three individuals may have been banned from there because of complaints from other users about their behaviour. Laying the entire blame on their Editor seems a bit rich, then, even though the three in question seem to, but I suppose he's an easy target. But I do agree about individuals who spoil things for everybody else, like often happens on threads here. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Morris-ey Date: 16 Nov 11 - 11:15 AM From Max:"And for the record, my "refusal to moderate in even quite extreme cases" is called freedom of expression. And I am quite happy for my belief in this to be seen by the wider world. I understand how some are offended by this, as it forces a higher standard of accountability than some are capable of Plus, it requires the bravery and humility to hear other peoples opinions without a filter, and it demands prudence to remain civil while disagreeing with those opinions and defending your positions." "higher standards"?; "to remain civil"? Epic fail then... |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: The Sandman Date: 16 Nov 11 - 11:26 AM let us get things straight, I have no problem with froots, Iam not very interested in their board and i rarely look at it, i have no ill feeling to ian anderson and i think his magazine does a GOOD job in promoting popularising and inevitably playing a part in roots music and its commercialisation. Im pleased that those people who enjoy his board are once again able to do so, each to their own, I agree with Ians international approach to trad music, and hope his magazine continues for along time. However,I take exception to people like steve shaw, who seem to delight in flaming and trolling and regurgitating ancient irrelevant trivia from other discussion forums. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 11:46 AM well apparently fRoots does ban something other than people, the use of a GMail account as an e-mail address, when registering for boards membership, something about a security nightmare...I. Anderson waffles on at great length about it, far more than is needed in my opinion, but in the same breath recommends the use of Hotmail! or Yahoo Mail!! Now talk about your security nightmares. Wasn't it Hotmail that got hacked into a few years back and it took Microsoft some fairly great length of time to realise it?....and Yahoo? well enough has been said about them to fill volumes. No, No, Anderson, it simply won't do. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Folknacious Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:00 PM Plot. Lost. Nurse! |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:01 PM The plot's fine from this point of view. Thank You...next |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:17 PM Well that puts me in my place. Say goodnight to the folks, Gracie... |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:17 PM BTNG wrote:- "well apparently fRoots does ban something other than people, the use of a GMail account as an e-mail address, when registering for boards membership, something about a security nightmare". Not my position to, I realise, but could I try to explain this? GMail is a favoured by the almost unbelievably high number of spammers that try to post their trash adverts etc. on the fRoots forum. (Copies of these attempts to register come to me, so I know). Attempts to join the forum are filtered manually by a volunteer who does this in her spare time. This sometimes does mean that there is a delay between attempts to register to join the forum but genuine posters do get through to join in the end. So yes, it is a "security nightmare" but the upside of that is that no spam posts appear on that forum.... .... or on this one for that matter, though how the adminstrators here manage to keep them out - especially with the ability to post as GUESTS - I really don't know. Actually, I don't want to know, because if the persistent spammers found this out, they may find a way around it. Whatever is wrong with both these forums, they are pretty much 100% spam free. Long may it remain so. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Edthefolkie Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:29 PM Er, regarding Vic's question up the thread somewhere - I didn't see Juldeh Camara with Boka Halat but I did see Musa, and Zem Audu, several times. How is Roger Watson these days? I have just been reading his Model Railway Club notes from our old school mag - 1964, oh God. And now, back to the fray chaps? |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Spleen Cringe Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:32 PM I was avoiding this thread as I had made a few assumptions what it would be like, which was an example of Mudcat, ahem, not at its best. Actually I was wrong - with a few honourable and predictable exceptions, it's not that bad. As another person who posts both at fRoots and Mudcat, I don't see why there has to be any sort of dick swinging contest between the two, and I'd hazard a guess that neither Max nor Ian would want that either. Both fulfil different functions and that's ok: I certainly use them differently. I don't see any evidence that the fRoots board is peevish and supercilious as Lurker suggests (but then I would say that because I post there!). I reckon that's just a misreading of Ian's sometimes waspish humour. I also don't agree with the suggestion made elsewhere that Mudcat is full of deranged lunatics (though there are obviously a few: no names, no pack drill, don't feed 'em). I've overwhelmingly met some really decent folks here. Not that anyone asked, but I actually find that some of the posts I most enjoy reading (at either board) are by people who post on both - Vic and Matt springing to mind, for instance. Anyway, for something completely different, now I'm off to the Terrascope forum for a spot of psychtastic weirdness. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:35 PM Vic, I read Ian's posting, and it's a shame about the spamming, on both boards. I have a Yahoo account, but, I dunno, I keep hearing the security issues about them as well, funnily enough the same security nightmares, as GMail supposedly has, I say supposedly because, I must be one of the lucky ones, I've not had a problem yet. Now, you watch, having said that, I'll get a problem *LOL* Cheers! |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Bonzo3legs Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:01 PM However Folk Roots magazine is well produced, even if many of the toothless wonders about whom articles are written are quickly passed over! |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:12 PM Thanks for that erudite observation, Uncle Boko. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Max Date: 16 Nov 11 - 02:37 PM They are what you make them, just as anything else in life, they'll reflect what you bring in with you. An aside, if I may. Lurker, it would be a travesty if you just lurked. I am blown away by your insight, intellectual compassion, skillful, perhaps purposeful use of brevity, and your eloquent, articulate and polite manner of speech. It is just smart without making me feel stupid, bravo. We would love to have you as a member if you would care to consider it. We would be made richer, and the honor would be ours. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,999 Date: 16 Nov 11 - 03:04 PM AND, Max is gonna learn how to spell honour real soon, too. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Max Date: 16 Nov 11 - 04:33 PM and therefore and colour... we just had a meeting about the differences of our languages and how to build room for that into the mudcat 2.0 system just yesterday. I won't have to learn, the system will automate it. HA! |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,999 Date: 16 Nov 11 - 04:50 PM LOL, Max. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:00 PM I just noticed that..." a dim and distant folk war...?" What you been smokin' then? Where do some people get their ideas? |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Stewie Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:45 PM Max, will it also automatically correct such lapses as 'polite manor of speech'? --Stewie. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:54 PM Polite Manor, is just off the by-pass, on the other side of Basingstoke, many a fine house party was hosted there. ;-) |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Max Date: 16 Nov 11 - 06:59 PM No, but it does self destruct... so we got that going for us. And quit teasing me. If you had any idea how much I type in day, you'd be amazed I got anything right. I used to have a volunteer just to correct my spelling errors. I'm growing. And I got pull around here, you should be careful, I got a big red button here that must do something dangerous that I'm just itching to push. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Max Date: 17 Nov 11 - 05:43 PM Boy, do I know how to close down a thread. Don't even have to use the Close Thread button. Just like my personal life, they scatter. This is why I keep my dog on a chain. Well, my mama says she loves me... but she could be lying too. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 17 Nov 11 - 07:05 PM ;-D |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 17 Nov 11 - 07:11 PM I was kidding and you know it, Max. You do a fantastic job with this site, there are not enough thanks in this world to offer you for providing the service. Sam (BTNG) |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Stewie Date: 17 Nov 11 - 07:18 PM What Sam just said. --Stewie. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: BTNG Date: 17 Nov 11 - 10:07 PM Oh dear a troll.... |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Stewie Date: 17 Nov 11 - 11:55 PM I'm not a bloody troll! I was simply echoing the remarks you made to Max. Get a grip! --Stewie. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Max Date: 18 Nov 11 - 01:53 AM SPAM, not a troll. We deleted it right after your previous post Stewie. BTNG was talking about that. Very different by the way, spam and troll. Spam has a rational intent and no emotions; trolls are insidious sociopaths who believe only in your discomfort. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Stewie Date: 18 Nov 11 - 04:15 AM My apologies to BTNG. --Stewie. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Dave Hanson Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:04 AM It's gone again, looks like because of the current economic climate fRoots message board is being turned off at weekends to save electricity. Dave H |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Sam Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:22 AM Looks as though. FFS. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: GUEST,Jon Date: 19 Nov 11 - 05:17 AM It's giving "Erreur 503 - Service temporairement indisponible ou en maintenance" so it probably is down for maintenance. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: fRoots message board down? From: Vic Smith Date: 19 Nov 11 - 05:26 AM Dave Hanson écrit:- "It's gone again, looks like because of the current economic climate fRoots message board is being turned off at weekends to save electricity." Mais non! Á http://froots.net/phpBB2/index.php, il dit:- Serveur dédié Dedibox en maintenanceErreur 503 - Service temporairement indisponible ou en maintenanceLe site internet que vous contactez est actuellement en maintenance, merci de renouveller votre demande ultérieurement.Vive Mondomix! |
| Share Thread: |