Lyr Add: Lovely sweet gra geal mo chroidhe

Subject: Lyr Add: Lovely sweet gra geal mo chroidhe
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:41 PM

I've been trying to discover the words of this song for a while but haven't found any printed set. Working from a very indistinct recording, I got most of them apart from a couple of place-names. Recently, I heard a woman in Sligo singing a version of the song, and asked for these place-names; although she supplied the words she had, she added that the man who wrote them out for her was himself unsure of some of them (writing them only in pencil). Some of them are consistent with a Cork setting. I give the two versions I've heard.


It was westwards to [?through] Clondrohid parish
One day as I chanced for to roam,
There I met with a gentle young damsel
Who happened to be all alone.
She was the bright star of the morning,
So brilliant and charming was she;
No name shall I give for this fair one,
But style her, Sweet Gra Geal mo Chroidhe.

I approached her the moment I saw her
As I was always inclined for to do,
And the words that I spoke to this fair one
I now will repeat them to you;
"Fair Lass, will you leave your own father
And fly to the Border with me?"
Yet no name shall I claim for my darling
But Lovely Sweet Gra Geal mo Chroidhe


(The other version has - correctly, I think -
"Fair Lass, will you leave your own father,
And fly o'er those mountains with me?")



As sure as the Summer comes warm,
As sure as the Autumn proceeds,   [surely "succeeds"?]
As sure as the Winter comes after,
And the Spring, when we all sow the seeds,
As sure as blight catches gardens,
Or the Winter leaves fall from the tree   [?"withered"]
No name shall I claim for my darling
But, Lovely Sweet Gra Geal mo Chroidhe

Till ------- is eastwards of -------
Till Cork and PortArlington meet,
Till trout can't be found in Blackwater,
And dry runs the broad river Lee,
Till the sun rises West in the morn,
When it shines on the ?lawn so sweet,
No name shall I claim for my darling
But, Lovely Sweet Gra Geal mo Chroidhe.

And, through Carraiganimmy next morning
I carried my Love with great speed,
I was not afraid of her father
For doing so awful (sic) a deed;   
I took her to sweet 1. Lough Sheelin   2 ?Skelmolina
My bride ever after to be,
And I will roll her in my arms,
My Lovely Sweet Gra Geal mo Chroidhe.



It seems to me there are some corruptions here; the line about "Fly o'er those mountains with me" is more conventionally poetic than the line about the Border, which may have been inserted to explain the reference to Lough Sheelin, which is in County Cavan, a long way to the North, though still in the Republic, unless of course there's a smaller Lough Sheelin nearer to Cork/Kerry. I can't find Skelmolina on any map, either. In the second-last verse, I wonder if there's been some transposition of lines; this attempted reconstruction runs better with regard to rhyming, and I suspect "till the sun rises West in the morning" may originally have been "till Sunrise be West in the morning", that is, a conventional impossibility:

Till Curran be Eastwards of Corran,
Till Cork and PortArlington meet;
Till Sunrise be West in the morn -
When it shines on the Laune it's so sweet;
Till trout can't be found in Blackwater,
Till dry runs the broad River Lee,
No name shall I claim for my darling
But Lovely Sweet Gra Geal mo Chroidhe.

The suggested place-names here are at least consistent with the setting, and "Laune" is a river near Killarney. The pencilled words here were "Larnet", which again I can't find.

I wonder if "Lough Sheelin" might have been "Lough Leane", or even, depending on pronunciation, Lough Guitane? Anyone got any ideas, since I'd rather be accurate than attempt any inappropriate revision.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE SEA AROUND US (Dominic Behan)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:51 PM

Reminds me of The Sea Around us, by Dominic Behan.

Words in DT

As it shares a similarly worded chorus.

The Sea Around Us
(Domenick Behan) (sic)

They say that the lakes of Killarney are fair
That no stream like the Liffey can ever compare,
If it's water you want, you'll find nothing more rare
Than the stuff they make down by the ocean.

cho: The sea, oh the sea is the gradh geal mo croide*
    Long may it stay between England and me
    It's a sure guarantee that some hour we'll be free
    Oh, thank God we're surrounded by water.

Tom Moore made his "Waters" meet fame and reknown
A great lover of anything dressed in a crown
In brandy the bandy old Saxon he'd drown
But throw ne'er a one in the ocean.

The Scots have their Whisky, the Welch have their speech
And their poets are paid about tenpence a week
Provided no hard words on England they speak
Oh Lord, what a price for devotion.

The Danes came to Ireland with nothing to do
But dream of the plundered old Irish they slew,
"Yeh will in yer vikings" said Brian Boru
And threw them back into the ocean.

Two foreign old monarchs in battle did join
Each wanting his head on the back of a coin;
If the Irish had sense they'd drowned both in the Boyne
And partition thrown into the ocean.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lovely sweet gra geal mo chroidhe
From: MartinRyan
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 05:01 PM

Little more than the key phrase in common with Behan's song? It's bit of a Hiberno-English cliche, really!

There are a number of songs with the phrase. I think we had a related thread a while back. Will have a look.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lovely sweet gra geal mo chroidhe
From: MartinRyan
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 05:07 PM

In fact, I think I was asked about this one in another context - can't find any real trace of it on Mudcat. I'll have another look.

The songs I'm thinking of are usually sung to a variant of Cailin Deas Cruite na mBo (Pretty Girl Milking her Cow)

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lovely sweet gra geal mo chroidhe
From: MartinRyan
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 03:57 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lovely sweet gra geal mo chroidhe
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 10:38 AM

Ah Ha! Yes, we did try to hunt this before,under a different title:
Click here

I'll get back onto it.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lovely sweet gra geal mo chroidhe
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 06:51 AM

Yes, I thought there was a relationship between some (musical) phrases in the two sets of the air you mention, which I first learnt in the "Terence's Farewell" way. I wonder can any Irish person, preferably familiar with Cork & Kerry place-names, give me some guidance upon pronunciation. For instance, I would think "Clondrochid" has a stress on the second syllable, that is, "clon-DRO-chid", although to follow the musical notes easily the stress must be placed upon the first, "CLON-dro-chid". Secondly, how is "Lough Guitane" pronounced? Finally, while loughs and mountains are more poetic in association than villages, perhaps the problematic "Lough Sheelin" was originally just "Lisheen", which is again in the general locations where I think the song is set. Of course, then I'd wish to know whether it's "li-SHEEN", which I think likely and which would fit, or is it "LI-sheen"?

I notice you write "the songS". If you can track down another, I'd be most grateful to learn it too, although I'm happy to have eventually got almost to a satisfactory way of this one. The two versions I've heard differ only (apart from a few words) in that one has only four verses, having the first half of the third (above) followed by the second half of the fourth. I should think this is evidence of someone having forgotten, or deliberately omitted, the missing lines, since these two verses are themselves coherent. That is, the first is to do with the progress of the Seasons and with, ultimately, disease, age and death, while the second is a series of impossible events, common enough in ballad and song.

I think it's one of the best traditional songs I've encountered for quite a while.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lovely sweet gra geal mo chroidhe
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 06:55 AM

By the way, while the Scots certainly have their Whisky, the Welsh are said by Dominic Behan to have "their Leeks".