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BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012

GUEST,Azoic 16 Nov 11 - 03:26 PM
GUEST,Azoic 16 Nov 11 - 03:36 PM
GUEST,henryp 16 Nov 11 - 03:41 PM
GUEST,Howard Jones 16 Nov 11 - 03:41 PM
Banjiman 16 Nov 11 - 03:47 PM
Big Al Whittle 16 Nov 11 - 03:58 PM
theleveller 17 Nov 11 - 03:49 AM
Dave Hanson 17 Nov 11 - 04:05 AM
Dave Sutherland 17 Nov 11 - 11:20 AM
GUEST,Rich A 17 Nov 11 - 11:26 AM
folkandroots 17 Nov 11 - 11:32 AM
Fran 17 Nov 11 - 12:19 PM
Noreen 17 Nov 11 - 01:15 PM
Tunesmith 17 Nov 11 - 02:11 PM
Mysha 17 Nov 11 - 02:56 PM
Silas 18 Nov 11 - 05:42 AM
Johnny J 18 Nov 11 - 05:57 AM
theleveller 18 Nov 11 - 06:16 AM
Banjiman 18 Nov 11 - 06:28 AM
GUEST,Howard Jones 18 Nov 11 - 02:32 PM
Arthur_itus 18 Nov 11 - 06:17 PM
Spleen Cringe 18 Nov 11 - 07:15 PM
GUEST,Phil B 18 Nov 11 - 10:00 PM
Big Al Whittle 18 Nov 11 - 11:05 PM
Big Al Whittle 19 Nov 11 - 02:06 PM
The Sandman 19 Nov 11 - 05:44 PM
Tunesmith 20 Nov 11 - 04:12 AM
GUEST,matt milton 20 Nov 11 - 06:54 AM
EmmaHartley 20 Nov 11 - 07:01 AM
EmmaHartley 20 Nov 11 - 07:02 AM
Will Fly 20 Nov 11 - 07:06 AM
Bonzo3legs 20 Nov 11 - 07:16 AM
Will Fly 20 Nov 11 - 07:21 AM
Tunesmith 20 Nov 11 - 07:50 AM
evansakes 20 Nov 11 - 08:10 AM
Tunesmith 20 Nov 11 - 08:13 AM
Big Al Whittle 20 Nov 11 - 12:53 PM
GUEST,arthuritus 20 Nov 11 - 12:54 PM
Phil Edwards 20 Nov 11 - 01:14 PM
Big Al Whittle 20 Nov 11 - 01:20 PM
Phil Edwards 20 Nov 11 - 01:21 PM
Big Al Whittle 20 Nov 11 - 01:35 PM
Tunesmith 20 Nov 11 - 02:04 PM
johncharles 20 Nov 11 - 03:04 PM
Big Al Whittle 20 Nov 11 - 03:09 PM
Arthur_itus 20 Nov 11 - 04:22 PM
GUEST,Howard Jones 20 Nov 11 - 04:32 PM
Bonzo3legs 20 Nov 11 - 04:52 PM
GUEST,matt milton 20 Nov 11 - 05:01 PM
Big Al Whittle 20 Nov 11 - 05:58 PM
Tunesmith 21 Nov 11 - 03:06 AM
tweetiepie 21 Nov 11 - 03:57 AM
Big Al Whittle 21 Nov 11 - 06:40 AM
GUEST,Howard Jones 21 Nov 11 - 07:58 AM
Tunesmith 21 Nov 11 - 08:15 AM
GUEST,Ken 21 Nov 11 - 08:21 AM
Spleen Cringe 21 Nov 11 - 08:21 AM
Spleen Cringe 21 Nov 11 - 08:28 AM
Arthur_itus 21 Nov 11 - 08:41 AM
Tunesmith 21 Nov 11 - 08:43 AM
Spleen Cringe 21 Nov 11 - 08:58 AM
Tunesmith 21 Nov 11 - 09:06 AM
Arthur_itus 21 Nov 11 - 09:08 AM
GUEST,matt milton 21 Nov 11 - 09:09 AM
Tunesmith 21 Nov 11 - 09:18 AM
Spleen Cringe 21 Nov 11 - 09:45 AM
Bonzo3legs 21 Nov 11 - 09:51 AM
GUEST 21 Nov 11 - 10:09 AM
GUEST,Ken 21 Nov 11 - 10:13 AM
Will Fly 21 Nov 11 - 10:16 AM
Tunesmith 21 Nov 11 - 10:26 AM
Bonzo3legs 21 Nov 11 - 11:12 AM
Big Al Whittle 21 Nov 11 - 11:23 AM
Big Al Whittle 21 Nov 11 - 02:38 PM
Howard Jones 21 Nov 11 - 02:47 PM
Bonzo3legs 21 Nov 11 - 02:50 PM
GUEST,raymond greenoaken 21 Nov 11 - 03:05 PM
GUEST,Ken 21 Nov 11 - 03:18 PM
Banjiman 21 Nov 11 - 04:27 PM
Phil Edwards 21 Nov 11 - 05:31 PM
Big Al Whittle 21 Nov 11 - 09:08 PM
GUEST,Gemma Kidney 22 Nov 11 - 03:12 AM
Tunesmith 22 Nov 11 - 03:20 AM
GUEST,raymond greenoaken 22 Nov 11 - 04:29 AM
Spleen Cringe 22 Nov 11 - 07:48 AM
Mavis Enderby 22 Nov 11 - 08:07 AM
GUEST 22 Nov 11 - 11:47 AM
GUEST,matt milton 22 Nov 11 - 11:47 AM
GUEST,raymond greenoaken 22 Nov 11 - 12:05 PM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 22 Nov 11 - 12:43 PM
GUEST,raymond greenoaken 22 Nov 11 - 03:52 PM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 22 Nov 11 - 04:12 PM
LesB 23 Nov 11 - 08:32 AM
GUEST,Mad Spaniel 23 Nov 11 - 08:52 AM
GUEST,Pete Rimmer 23 Nov 11 - 11:03 AM
GUEST,Azoic 23 Nov 11 - 01:42 PM
Tim Leaning 23 Nov 11 - 02:34 PM
Phil Edwards 23 Nov 11 - 06:16 PM
Spleen Cringe 23 Nov 11 - 06:44 PM
Phil Edwards 24 Nov 11 - 06:19 AM
Leadfingers 24 Nov 11 - 06:40 AM
Leadfingers 24 Nov 11 - 06:42 AM
Phil Edwards 25 Nov 11 - 06:17 PM
Reinhard 19 Jan 12 - 12:40 AM
Dave Hanson 19 Jan 12 - 03:33 AM
Howard Jones 19 Jan 12 - 03:45 AM
Mitch the Bass 19 Jan 12 - 08:37 AM
Silas 19 Jan 12 - 08:45 AM
GUEST,Folknacious 19 Jan 12 - 10:53 AM
Big Al Whittle 19 Jan 12 - 11:27 AM
GUEST,Jon Dudley 19 Jan 12 - 11:37 AM
Big Al Whittle 20 Jan 12 - 04:27 AM
Brian Peters 20 Jan 12 - 01:32 PM
Les in Chorlton 20 Jan 12 - 02:11 PM
Vic Smith 20 Jan 12 - 02:13 PM
Phil Edwards 20 Jan 12 - 06:11 PM
GUEST,s-j in london 21 Jan 12 - 08:36 AM
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Subject: BBC RADIO 2 FOLK NOMINATIONS-2012
From: GUEST,Azoic
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 03:26 PM

LINK---------http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/events/folk-awards-2012/


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Subject: RE: BBC RADIO 2 FOLK NOMINATIONS-2012
From: GUEST,Azoic
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 03:36 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/events/folk-awards-2012/                            cut and paste


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 03:41 PM

And members of the public will be admitted to this splendid jamboree in Salford simply by producing a note to the value of £10. They are queueing up as I write.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 03:41 PM

Delighted to see Pilgrims' Way nominated for the Horizon Award. They're a cracking young band who've been working really hard and are being very well received.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Banjiman
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 03:47 PM

Very happy for Will Pound......cracking harmonica player!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 03:58 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/events/folk-awards-2012/#nominees

well dun to'em all!

But this year, I'm rooting for Sunjay brayne and Lucy of course!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 03:49 AM

Glad to see Lucy Ward and Blair Dunlop up there - they are the future of folk.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 04:05 AM

£12.00 actually £10.00 plus £2.00 booking fee, why don't they just say £12.00 FFS

Dave H


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 11:20 AM

Second the mentions of Lucy Ward; a lot of hard work is paying off.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Rich A
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 11:26 AM

But no mention of Lady Maisery yet... Their CD as been on in our car more than any this summer. I must get the Pilgrims Way Cd, the other well deserved nom.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: folkandroots
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 11:32 AM

They are up for a very well deserved Horizon award though, along with three other equally deserving acts..


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Fran
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 12:19 PM

Hopefully this will propell Lucy to the next level and she will start getting the headline/main stage spots she deserves.

She works very hard, puts in the hours and gets herself seen, she constantly learns and writes new songs and keeps her sets different and fresh, at Shrewsbury she had three sets and kept all three different, and from what I heard this is not unusual for her, well done Lucy you deserve to win this!

It may not be a 'folk' song but her take on Pulp's common people is brilliant. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNrfIRUElGU


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Noreen
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 01:15 PM

** Please note: This event is currently SOLD OUT **


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Tunesmith
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:11 PM

Great to see that "On Morecambe Bay" has been nominated in the song section.
Below is a link to the composers version and Christy Moore's take on the song.

Kevin Littlewood Youtube

Christy Moore Youtube link


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Mysha
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:56 PM

Hi,

Just to get this straight: 2012 isn't over yet; 2011 has not even ended. These awards are really the Folk Awards 2010/11?


So how do we nominate the Mudcat CD-s This is Us for the 2011/2012 awards, which will be called Folk Awards 2013? (-:

Bye,
                                                                                                                                    Mysha


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Silas
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 05:42 AM

I wonder who will get the lifetime achievement award this time? If the trend is for worn out sixties has beens who have made no contribution to folk music, then how about Cliff Richard?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Johnny J
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 05:57 AM

Ah, the English Folk Awards.

At least, there's very few surprises in the list.

Why go to the trouble of breaking in new shoes when your old comfy slippers are at hand?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 06:16 AM

I don't think Lucy and Blair Dunlop would be too happy being referred to as comfy old slippers!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Banjiman
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 06:28 AM

The exceptions that prove the rule Pete (along with Will of course!).


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 02:32 PM

It's hardly surprising that acts who are at the top of their game keep getting nominated. If they were good last year and the year before that, the chances are they'll be good this year. There are still plenty of new young players appearing on the list, but once they've been nominated a couple of times they too join "the usual suspects".

Perhaps once someone has won they should be barred from being nomisated again, but that would be unfair on those performers who continue to be top of the league year after year.

It would be nice to see more information about the nominations. It seems to me that "Singer"/Musician of the Year" should reflect a special contribution during the year in question, rather than simply a high profile. It would be interesting to know what makes them the singer/musician of this particular year.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 06:17 PM

Well I have looked at the list and fail to understand some of the choices.

Some suggestions.

Harvey Andrews who has given so much to the folk world and will be retiring next year.

Real Time - One of the best bands I have come across. Wonderful singing from Judy Dinning who is having to go through cancer treatment again.

John Conolly - Yes Mr Fiddlers Green. Such a great entertainer.

Bill Whaley & Dave Fletcher - Great duo and funny.

Kathryn Roberts and Sean Lakeman. One of my favourite duo's. Always go home gobsmacked with their performance.

Martyn Wyndham-Read & Iris Bishop - so magic to watch them.

Blimey I could go on for ages, so sorry if I haven't mentioned somebody. The point I was trying to make is they are all excellent entertainers and please the audience for at least 90 minutes. Why are they not included?

I am sure that a lot of Uk mudcatters who can think of other very suitable performers, who don't get a mention.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 07:15 PM

Awards are awards. I wish someone from my label was up for one. They're not, but that's life. I say good luck to all those who are nominated. Life's to short to wish anyone anything but the best.

I bet you're happy to see young Mr Brayne there, Al. You've been championing his music for a while, so it must be pretty exciting to see him getting that recognition.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Phil B
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 10:00 PM

I really do sincerely hope that Wiz Jones above all people is being considered for the Lifetime achievement award.There's no one else from the 'Old Guard' out there doing it to that standard with that enthusiasm. If ever there was someone who utterly deserved a bit of modest recognition it's him!!!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 11:05 PM

Well I've got to admit that I see Sunjay Brayne as the last best hope of the kind of folk music that I admire. namely the music inspired by a deep love of the steel strung acoustic guitar. No way of getting away from it - its an instrument with an American origin

It has been an incredibly fruitful field of endeavour for nusic in English folk clubs - producing McTell, Jansch, Renbourn, Carthy, Simpson and of course Nic Jones and Tony Rose.

But for years now the acoustic guitar has been just someone belting out the DADGAD shapes to a reel, or thrashing around Paul Weller style. Its been distressing because, the guitar so much more than that.

I taught Sunjay's Dad, and to some small extentI've been an influence on Sunjay. But all the while I've watched the practicioners of this wonderful music in the folk clubs, people like the late Roger Brooks and Jack Hudson decried and discriminated against.

To be honest, I have nothing but fear an trepidation for the future of that sublime talent Sanjay Brayne. I really think there are people, in this country who would rather see an important strand of folk music in this country die and wither upon the vine than give it its due.

One by one, i watched the oldsters die or drop out of the game. there are millions of wannabe Aly Blains, but to have the individualism qand degree of accomplishment to try to be the next ralph McTell- well that really is bloody rare. Almost an extinct breed.

The other thing aboutr Sanjay is - here is an Anglo Indian of great talent. The last Anglo Indians who could pick like that were Gerry Lockran and Hamish Imlach - back in the 60's and 70's. Time for another one methinks. Particularly if he can deliver like they did.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 02:06 PM

Sorry didn't mean to close the conversation down!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 05:44 PM

yes wizz jones, roy harris, loiusa killen


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Tunesmith
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 04:12 AM

Well, if Sunjay Brayne wins the Young Folk Award then the UK folk scene will be in trouble!
I've checked out Sunjay on Youtube and his material seems to be a 100% American!
Sure he's a fine guitar player, and he sings in tune, but the future of the English folk scene had better be in safer hands than his.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 06:54 AM

It never occurred to me that the R2 awards were specifically and exclusively about the English folk music repertoire. The nominations and winners would suggest that they aren't: that they are about celebrating folk musicians playing on/in the English (British?) folk scene.

After all, Martin Simpson's always played a varied repertoire of both English and American music.

Must admit, Sunjay's track and Martin Simpson's music were the only things that stood out for me amidst the snippets Mike Harding played on his show. They both happened, coincidentally, to be American material, but they just seemed to have a bit more life and vigour to them: all the rest sounded moribund to my ears.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: EmmaHartley
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 07:01 AM

http://theglamourcave.blogspot.com/2011/11/bbc-folk-awards-raising-blood-pressure.html

Comfy slippers or something more sinister? I have a friend who's a judge for the awards who thinks he's not supposed to let on...


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: EmmaHartley
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 07:02 AM

http://theglamourcave.blogspot.com/2011/11/bbc-folk-awards-raising-blood-pressure.html

Sorry. The blue clicky things didn't work first time I tried and then I got distracted...


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 07:06 AM

This comment from GUEST, Phil B struck me:

There's no one else from the 'Old Guard' out there doing it to that standard with that enthusiasm.

I'm assuming by 'Old Guard', Phils's talking about performers of a certain age, from the 60s/'70s perhaps, who've been around the public folk scene. In my experience, there are - and always have been - excellent guitarists who may not have been in the public eye, but who have been playing away in pubs and clubs and restaurants for years with just the same skill, artistry and enthusiasm. I could name half a dozen great players from my neck of the woods in Sussex who it's a pleasure to listen to and to play with, and who very few people outside Sussex would probably know.

It's one of the reasons I've never bothered to get enthused about folk awards or any other awards. Good luck to the people that get them, by all means, and I hope their careers profit by them, but what the awards are representative of, I have no idea.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 07:16 AM

Always something is not right for the whingers, for me - I'll just stick to complaining about the hideous veggie only food and uncomfortable seating at the Green Note, where they record the artist off the mixing desk!!!

As to the Young Folk Award, I understand from Blair that the standard was very very high indeed, so to me, to get through to the final 4 is some achievement.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 07:21 AM

Who's whingeing? Let the awards flourish, say I, even though I'm not particularly bothered about them. I'm merely pondering their representativeness of the actual musical scene as a whole - no harm in that.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Tunesmith
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 07:50 AM

I wouldn't be happy with a musician who just performs American material winning a ENGLISH folk award.
Lots of great folk artist perform American material but also have a great big foot planted firmly in British/Celtic music e.g. Martin Simpson.
If Sunjay Brayne's repertoire has no British/Celtic connection then I wouldn't be happy with him winning the award.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: evansakes
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 08:10 AM

Just to clarify that he's in contention to win something in the BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards....not an "ENGLISH folk award".


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Tunesmith
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 08:13 AM

Well, what is the criteria? Is it Great Britain and N.Ireland?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 12:53 PM

I noticed from Mike H's snippets that John Tams is siinging in an American accent these days. And I thought - wot a good job John's in with the in crowd. otherwise, he'sd be getting the sort of grief I've had to put up with for the last thirty years.

Lets face it Tunesmith, you don't give a shit about English folk music - this is just about about defending the bailliewick of this little oligarchy of folksingers that you approve of.

Sunjay is English, but his Mum was Indian and his dad's half American. Why would his head be full of morris tunes and Sam Larner?

His imagined village isn't yours.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,arthuritus
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 12:54 PM

Jez lowe with 2 of the bad pennies were brilliant last night at faldingworth. They entrtained the audience with cracking music and humour.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 01:14 PM

Well I've got to admit that I see Sunjay Brayne as the last best hope of the kind of folk music that I admire. namely the music inspired by a deep love of the steel strung acoustic guitar. No way of getting away from it - its an instrument with an American origin

It has been an incredibly fruitful field of endeavour for nusic in English folk clubs - producing McTell, Jansch, Renbourn, Carthy, Simpson and of course Nic Jones and Tony Rose.


None of whom confined themselves to American material or sang in an American accent.

I'm not saying Sunjay Brayne's nomination is a problem - I'm not familiar with his work and I don't care about the awards anyway. But if you think about the greats of English folk music you won't find many who don't sing English material and don't use their own accent.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 01:20 PM

Sunjay doesn't confine himself to A


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 01:21 PM

E is a good key, so I've heard.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 01:35 PM

Sunjay doesn't confine himself to American material. his biggest single influence was probably the late Roger Brooks. Roger was from West Bridgford in Nottingham. He was championed in this country by Rosie Hardman, and played in folk festivals and folk clubs up and down England for many years. Roger's tour de force was a song about the paris riots called Street riot. Its an astonishing piece of guitar playing and currently Roger's ex girlfriend, Bournemouth based Nicky Haan and Sunjay are the only people I know who can play it.

As the traddy disease bit deeper and put more folk clubs out of business, Roger was forced to work on the continent more and eventually commuted between the pubs round St Ives in Cornwall and Norway.

If you'd be paying attention to real English folk music, i.e. the sort played by English people in English folk clubs you wouldn't need me to tell you - or require your taste to be underwritten by some daft 1954 definition.

And Pip you wouldn't have to look further than this site to find people slagging off ralph McTell for singing in an Americanised accent. And what you could say about Ralph - you could surely say about Renbourn and Bert.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Tunesmith
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 02:04 PM

Big Al Whittle, Oh dear, I can't be doing with this anything goes idea!
If I want blues I'll listen to Paul Jones - or go to a blues club.
If I want country music I'll listen To Whisperin' Bob - or go to a country music event.
But, if I want British/Celtic folk music - and it's American off-shoots - I'll go a folk music club.
I like the blues as much as lots of folkies - and have performed my fair share of them, and I happy for them to have a place in British folk clubs ( but by now they should have developed a decidedly British feel to them) along with odd pop song etc.
However, I wouldn't be happy to see a blues category - or anything like it - in the BBC Folk Awards.
And, I certainly don't like American accents being used by British/Irish performers.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: johncharles
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 03:04 PM

There are other good blues players. One of my favourites is Tom Attah
he has a real feel for the music.
tom attah
john


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 03:09 PM

Let me tell you something Tunesmith. Sunjay Brayne, on his own intiative, was running a website in appreciation of the late gerry Lockran (like himself an Anglo Indian folk artist working in English folkclubs) by the time he was thirteen. sanjay was too young to have seen Gerry live, but Lockran's music inspired him.

Sanjay is a quite brilliant musician because he is talented and he has the talent that drives him every day to seek out more about his craft and work hard at it. Everyone who sees him finds his creativity very exciting. His vision is very individual - I can't influence him nowadays.

Only just eigghteen years of age, he will be attracting the sort of media interest that will fill your folk club if you book him.

And what will you have to pass onto the young people that come to your club in his wake - other than the cold arrogance and dismissiveness that you seem so adept at.

Its not anything goes - its the English folk guitarists. A British phenomenon. Eric Roche, Steve Tilston, Ken Nicol, Davy Graham, Bert Jansch, by adoption Stefan Grossman, Martin Carthy, Steve Hicks, and now Sanjay Brayne.......the most exciting aspect of the folk revival for many people. If you don't dig it, its your loss.

But pretending you know about folk music without knowing about Britain's great folk guitarists is a bit like saying you know about the history of Manchester United when you've never heard of Georgie Best.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 04:22 PM

Tunesmith, Big Al is a very knowledgable person and knows what he is talking about. If Al is recommending him, I would listen.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 04:32 PM

Judging from the clip on his website, Sunjay is certainly a talented guitarist. I wish he'd decide whether to sing in an English or American accent - it appears to waver between the two - but he no doubt deserves his place on the list, if you take a broad view of what folk music encompasses.

But Al, turn it down, please - your enthusiasm for him is understandable but your antagonistic attitude is doing him no favours. I am having to force myself to listen to him objectively rather than follow my instinctive counter-reaction to your comments.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 04:52 PM

Are any of the four finalists besides Blair gigging? I know that Blair certainly is.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 05:01 PM

Yes, and I hear he charges hundreds of thousands of pounds per appearance.



(Oh alright, not THAT Blair...)


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 05:58 PM

I appreciate I'm doing Sanjay no favours. As my Dad used to say - we Whittles, we can't disagree with someone without seeming to argue - its a bad personal fault.

And I'm sorry if I'm discourteous - I just didn't like to think of Sanjay's talents being peremptorily dismissed out of bloody minded predjudice. Just seen too much of it in the past and present - can't bear to think the children of the future having to tolerate it.

Yes I think Sanjay is gigging. Perhaps as well to wait a few weeks. BBC TV are shooting a documentary about him next week, I believe Acoustic magazine are doing an article. Perhaps when a few more people have heard of him you will have more chance of getting some people into your club to check him out.
http://www.sunjaybrayne.com/


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Tunesmith
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 03:06 AM

Well, It's now 2011 and not 1965!
Sunjay can play blues and American orientated music 24 hours a day, but the British folk scene doesn't need that.
For one reason, there are thousands of Americans doing that already.
Over 40 years ago Bert, John etc were striving for a more British sound to their playing.
Talking of 40 years ago, if Sunjay can produce anything like what Dave Evans(a Bert Jansch disciple) was exploring back then, I'd be very excited - and very happy.

Dave Evans! Wow!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: tweetiepie
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 03:57 AM

Having seen and heard Lucy over the last few years I think she is amazing. She really deserves an award. She is down to earth and very likeable. Go Lucy Go! I mean that in a positive way. Will have a listen to Sanjay Al and enthuse on. Where can I hear Nikky sing? She can play a mean guitar too x


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 06:40 AM

I think its very high handed of you to decide that the British folk scene doesn't need Sanjay.

However it surprises me not a jot. Bloody typical of the middle classes and their cruddy folk revival.

Yweets you can hear Nicky every Wednesday at teh Plymouth Hoy on the quay in the old town in Bournemouth. Lovely lady. And yes Lucy is lovely as is her family.

The difference is because of her choice of material, she was streeetwise enough to do the stuff that was acceptable.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 07:58 AM

Al, you seem to have a grudge against the folk revival, which I can only guess might be because the stuff you perform (very well, too, I've been on your website) isn't "acceptable" there. However the question of acceptability applies to any music - if you want to appear at a jazz club, then play jazz; if you want to appear on Radio 3 then play classical; if you want to play in folk clubs, then play folk music. It doesn't matter how good the music is, if it doesn't suit the venue and the audience then you won't get invited.

I recognise that for the kind of stuff you do, or that Sunjay does, there isn't really a convenient slot for it to fit into, and that for want of anything more suitable, a folk club might be the most likely environment. And, despite your grumblings, there are a great many folk clubs with a sufficiently broad attitude to accept that music. However for those that don't, and who feel that kind of music isn't for them, that's their prerogative. But don't assume that those people aren't open to other forms of music too. It's just a question of playing what's appropriate to the audience - what's "acceptable".

To bring this back on topic, the BBC Awards seem to take a fairly broad view of what is "folk", which some will agree with and others won't.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Tunesmith
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 08:15 AM

To put my position straight.
I love the blues! I'm a fully paid up member of the Son House Appreciation Society!
However, blues must be an adjunct to the main thrust of what needs to be happening in folk clubs if the English folk revival is not to disappear and leave behind clubs that are totally inhabited by people performing old pop songs and confessional singer-songwriters material.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Ken
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 08:21 AM

The last time I looked, people other than the native British (whatever they are) had folk music as well, and these things are simply called the Folk Awards. So the scandal is not that somebody playing American music has been nominated, but that all the other traditional musics you can hear played by people living within the BBC's regions aren't. They also aren't called "the folk club awards", so they're not limited to whatever it is that people play in those specialist gatherings. Whether or not people like singer/songwriters should be included or whether you apply the old Ewan MacColl rule that people should only be allowed to perform music from their own tradition are both other arguments for different sets of semantics and nitpicking. However, surely - at a minimum - anybody living and playing a traditional music within the UK to a high standard and decent public profile should be eligible?

So the question shouldn't be "why is Sunjay Brayne included", it's "why aren't for example Juldeh Camara, Seckou Keita. The Krar Collective, Mor Karbasi etc included?" They are all first class traditional folk musicians or singers living, recording and performing in the UK, and they are always excluded.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 08:21 AM

Well, I'm with Al on this one. What Sunjay is doing is not entirely my cup of tea and I think things will get much more interesting if and when he starts writing his own songs. Meanwhile he's a fantastic guitar player who clearly has an abiding and genuine love of American folk and roots music - as did many of the early people on the UK folk scene... I'm really please he's been nominated. Maybe next year we might see some of the alt.folk types up there too. People like Foxpockets, for instance.

As to the comparisons with Dave Evans - I love Dave's stuff, but you have to remember Sunjay is only 18. I suspect when "The Worlds in Between Came" out Dave had a few years on him!

I love traditional English music in the right hands, but I can't see why some people are so keen to keep Sunjay's sort of music out of folk clubs. Having said that, I hope he is getting plenty of gigs elsewhere too - you know, the sorts of places where other actual young people go to listen to music... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 08:28 AM

Excellent points from Ken. 100% in agreement.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 08:41 AM

Quote from Howard Jones "It doesn't matter how good the music is, if it doesn't suit the venue and the audience then you won't get invited."

100% correct. It's a question of artists doing their homework and finding out the clubs that best suit their style of music.

I think Folk Clubs as the older generation know them, will die as not many young people want to go to them. Do your kids want to be seen out with you, when they are teenagers? Us old folkies should stop trying to force younger people into and old folk's folk club's.
Their is a massive increase in younger people loving folk as seen at festivals. They also carry that on in their own places, where they can be themselves. Universities have a flourishing folk scene. Leave them to it. They are the future. They will carry the folk scene through.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Tunesmith
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 08:43 AM

Are these people i.e. "Juldeh Camara, Seckou Keita. The Krar Collective, Mor Karbasi" playing British folk music?
For example, there's a fair sized Polish population in the UK at the the moment but I'd wouldn't be happy if Polish folk singers were included in the BBC Folk Awards.
Boundaries are needed otherwise we'll be including every form of music in the Folk Awards.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 08:58 AM

Why on earth should any UK based folk performer with roots abroad be excluded? Tunesmith? A Polish folk singer, to use your example, is still a folk singer...

Have a listen to this: Roshi - Jaane Maryam

The Rif Mountain website says this about her: "Born in Wales to Iranian parents, Roshi Nasehi is a singer/songwriter who presents her own evocative original material alongside sometimes quite radical interpretations of the Iranian songs she was brought up listening to... When she interprets Iranian song it is in a personal style bringing a contemporary edge and an authentic understanding of context and language."


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Tunesmith
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 09:06 AM

It all depends on how far the original British folk music is diluted!
For example, lots of jazz musicians improvise on folksongs but their efforts - as far as I'm concerned - have nothing to do with the British folk tradition.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 09:08 AM

Some of these Polish folk singers as you put it Tunesmith are probably descendants of Polish war veterans who fought alongside us Brits in the second world war and were based in our country. Quite a number of these war veterans remained in this country and have brought up families here. They are as entitled as much as you or me to be classed as folk singers if that's what they do.
A couple of friends of mine wrote a song about Polish war veterans who were based at Faldingworth RAF and I had the great honour of going to see one of the polish veterans to get his approval of the song. Him and his wife still live near Lincoln and are such lovely people.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 09:09 AM

"Maybe next year we might see some of the alt.folk types up there too. People like Foxpockets, for instance"

Maybe in 2050. In a parallel universe.
These are the Radio 2 folk awards. (The old-school Radio 2, not the Radcliffe & Maconie wing.)

I've yet to hear a better album this year than Mary Hampton's "Folly", but it'd never get nominated for the R2 awards, let alone win.

Has Alasdair Roberts ever received a nomination, as a matter of interest?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Tunesmith
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 09:18 AM

My doctor is the son of a Polish immigrant, and he has sung Polish songs at folk clubs; however, I wouldn't be happy with someone whose repertoire is totally in a foreign language being nominated in the British Folk Music Awards.
Anyway, before we start including any Asian/African music in awards, we should think of allowing Breton musicians to be included as their music is a close relative of our traditional music.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 09:45 AM

Fair point, Matt. For a moment there I thought it was the Six Music Folk Awards...

I don't think he has. no. But he had just compiled this: Whaur the Pig Gaed On the Spree


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 09:51 AM

Think yourselves lucky that anyone from the younger generation even associates themselves with something normally preformed by bleating sheep!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 10:09 AM

My doctor is the son of a Polish immigrant, and he has sung Polish songs at folk clubs; however, I wouldn't be happy with someone whose repertoire is totally in a foreign language being nominated in the British Folk Music Awards.

what about the welsh?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Ken
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 10:13 AM

It all depends on how far the original British folk music is diluted!

Where does it say that they are the British Folk Awards, or Awards For British Folk Music, or any such variant? The only reasonable extrapolation that can be made for Folk Awards given by the BBC is that they are awards for all folk music being made within the cachment area of the BBC. If that's their remit, they singularly fail by excluding most of the folk music that can be found in the UK outside the walls of so-called folk clubs.

Are these people i.e. "Juldeh Camara, Seckou Keita. The Krar Collective, Mor Karbasi" playing British folk music?

They are people who live in Britain playing mostly traditional folk music.

I would be interested to see how the BBC define or give guidance on eligible music to their mythical jury of 80/120/150 or whatever the number is. Would any of those people care to break cover and quote the rules, if there are any?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 10:16 AM

I wrote this earlier on in the thread:

what the awards are representative of, I have no idea

Seems like it's still an open question...


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Tunesmith
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 10:26 AM

Well, as I said before, the BBC Folk Awards - judging from the nominations - are - almost totally - devoted to artists who play British folk music!
Not Indian, or Australian aboriginal...
And, BTW Guest, surely Welsh is a type of British language.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 11:12 AM

But we live in a wonderful multi multi multi multi cultural country now, in which an ever increasing proportion of folks come from, or their parents or their grandparents come from somewhere else - so you are going to get a bit of influence in entrants which upsets the same people who accuse of racism and like to make a fuss - now there's a thing!!!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 11:23 AM

Getting too weird!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 02:38 PM

I'm so pleased though that there is no such thing as the folk police and its all a figment of the imagination of paranoid losers.

Now the folk gestapo.....


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Howard Jones
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 02:47 PM

I've been reading Emma Hartley's blog with interest.

In response to the conspiracy theorists' accusations of a stitch-up, SmoothOps spokeswoman Kellie While replied that it's all monitored and signed-off by the BBC. She seems to fail to realise that for many on the folk scene that is not reassuring - the BBC's neglect of folk music, and its closing of more and more folk programmes, is a scandal. Mike Harding's show clearly has a remit of not letting those ghastly folkies drive away the audience, rather than providing something for real folk enthusiasts.

Personally, I don't buy into the conspiracy theory. I think the same acts keep on getting nominated because they're consistently good. Whether the "experts" really have as wide a view of the folk scene, and whether all the deserving performers are on their radar, is another matter, but the fact that quite recent acts such as Pilgrims' Way have got themselves nominated suggest to me that the experts aren't quite as blinkered as some would make out.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 02:50 PM

I think the same acts keep on getting nominated because they're consistently good.


Thankyou - at last something sensible!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 03:05 PM

>I would be interested to see how the BBC define or give guidance on eligible music to their mythical jury of 80/120/150 or whatever the number is. Would any of those people care to break cover and quote the rules, if there are any?<

Right, I'm going out, Fanshawe. Give me some covering fire...

There are rules, but they are largely procedural. Smooth Ops supplies no guidelines as to who does or does not qualify. Jurists, I'd guess, make commonsense assumptions, and if enough of them voted for The Krar Collective or even Alistair Roberts, they'd be up there. That there are no artists in the final line-up from Spleen's record label is in spite of my most strenuous efforts. Biddable, moi? No, I just know what I like.

And now, back in the foxhole...


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Ken
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 03:18 PM

Oh well, four mentions of the Krar Collective on a Mudcat thread is a bit of a result even if only by way of fallout. And yes, you're right, Mr Spleen was robbed, if I'd have been voting then Rapunzel & sedayne would have been in there. I think the simple answer is that the majority of the jury don't get out enough, maybe because they are an intentionally safe BBC selection. It is run by Radio 2 after all, the home of The Organist Entertains ;-)


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Banjiman
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 04:27 PM

It's interesting......even those acts that people are using as examples of newbies and outsiders getting into the show are mainly actually signed to pretty big record labels or agents. Even the Will Pounds and Lucy wards of this world (and don't get me wrong I really like both of them, we had Will at our place yesterday) are very well connected..... as are Pilgrim's Way.

I'm really pleased to see acts like these being nominated, I'm just making the point that they already have significant "insider" (just who does get to vote?) contacts.

Incidentally, we had Rapunzel & Sedayne here yesterday as well.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 05:31 PM

Smooth Ops supplies no guidelines as to who does or does not qualify.

Raymond - a couple of years ago, on a BBC message board, somebody inadvertently posted SO's guidelines on how to vote. While they certainly didn't make any stipulations as to who or what people should vote for - style, material, record label, nationality or whatever - they did say on what grounds people should vote: specifically, for the folk act/individual/album/etc that had had the most impact, not necessarily the best or their favourite. This obviously creates a bias towards honouring acts that are already successful - or, to put it another way, acts that would already be familiar to R2 listeners. Are those guidelines still in use? If not, what do they ask you to vote for? Or is it more a matter of a tap on the shoulder in a dark corner of C# House... psst, Raymond... it's that time again, know what I mean... you know what to do...


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 09:08 PM

In retrospect Pip, I'm abit cheesed off with what you said. I would never presume to be as prescrpitive as Tunesmith has been. Censoring a young man's first efforts and saying that it has NO place in English folk clubs.

I speak as an artist who has worked hard at MY vision of folk music for over forty years - no magic formulae for me, weird guitar tunings and odd affectations - just working with the sounds and voices that I found coming out of my mouth. No subsidised World Council tours, highly unpopular TV programmes, subsidised folk festivals, arts council grants - just my vision. An English artist whose point of reference has been English folk clubs.

And this clutz has the effrontery to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. And its me who's got the attitude problem.

I would never ever dream of telling you that you had no place in folk music. I've often bloody felt it as some cultural autistic grabs another piece of the cake - but I wouldn't dream of saying it.

Just assure me of one thing Tunesmith. You are not a relation or close friend of one of the other contestants trying to rally the troops to bugger up the opposition out of sheer malice.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Gemma Kidney
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 03:12 AM

Hi,
Please read my investigative folk blog on the subject - Are Folk Awards Discriminatory?

On the whole I think that they probably are. But maybe they're not.

Gemma


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Tunesmith
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 03:20 AM

First, I didn't say blues hasn't got a place in UK folk clubs.
What I did say is that - from Youtube evidence - Sunjay appeared to be specialising in the blues, and that I didn't see why an artist performing almost totally American music should be considered for a British Folk Music award.
A poster pointed out that Martin Simpson plays a lot of American music.
True, but he also plays a lot of British/Celtic music.
If Martin specialised in purely American music, then I wouldn't be happy with him winning British Folk Music awards.
Secondly, I haven't got any connection whatsoever with any of the other artists in that category.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 04:29 AM

>Raymond - a couple of years ago, on a BBC message board, somebody inadvertently posted SO's guidelines on how to vote. While they certainly didn't make any stipulations as to who or what people should vote for - style, material, record label, nationality or whatever - they did say on what grounds people should vote: specifically, for the folk act/individual/album/etc that had had the most impact, not necessarily the best or their favourite. This obviously creates a bias towards honouring acts that are already successful - or, to put it another way, acts that would already be familiar to R2 listeners. Are those guidelines still in use? If not, what do they ask you to vote for? Or is it more a matter of a tap on the shoulder in a dark corner of C# House... psst, Raymond... it's that time again, know what I mean... you know what to do...<

Pip –

Without giving too much away, ahem (shut that door, pull down that blind...), it's still the case that several categories use the formulation "artist/duo/group making the most impact". Is this an invitation to dispassionately assess an artist's "impact" on the British folk scene? If so, given that Bellowhead have allegedly shifted 60,000 units of Hedonism, there can be no contest for Best Group. But in practice, I suspect, lots of other considerations probably come into play, and not least of these are a jurist's own tastes. If I loathed Bellowhead, they probably wouldn't get my vote. So "impact" , I'd guess, means "impact on me" as well as "impact on the wider folk scene". That's always been my interpretation, at any rate.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 07:48 AM

Raymond and Ken - thanks for the vote of confidence for Folk Police stuff! I work on the basis that, as a new label, Folk Police are unlikely to be on the radar enough to be considered for inclusion. And that's ok. And in any case, we're far more Six Music than we are Radio Two...

Meanwhile, I still want to find a band that plays traditional music and sounds like the MC5, Wooden Shjips, Sun Ra, Crazy Horse, Mr Fox, Nusrat Fatah Ali Khan, The Allman Brothers and Boards of Canada all pulverised in a big old blender. With a singer who sounds like Lizzie Higgins.

Any takers?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 08:07 AM

Gemma,

Thanks for the link. It's a interesting blog and just the sort of thing we probably need much more of.

Keep us updated on your investigations!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 11:47 AM

"There are rules, but they are largely procedural. Smooth Ops supplies no guidelines as to who does or does not qualify. Jurists, I'd guess, make commonsense assumptions, and if enough of them voted for The Krar Collective or even Alistair Roberts, they'd be up there. That there are no artists in the final line-up from Spleen's record label is in spite of my most strenuous efforts."

This is about what I'd expect: there's no conspiracy, it's simply that the Awards reflect the rather middle-of-the-road and unadventurous tastes of the panel.

There is no real reason why Rapunzel & Sedayne couldn't be nominated for the awards - they have, after all, received more press in mainstream media than many other nominated acts have in the past. But it's inconceivable. It's not that they're "not on their radar", it's just the jury simply don't like that sort of music.

I mean Alasdair Roberts is an excellent case in point. He's on album number 6, all of them having been covered in both folk press and mainstream press. He's revived a Scots mummers tradition (Galoshins) and toured it; he writes the title-track (Hyperboreans) of an album for Jackie Oates and it receives a nomination. Emily Portman does guest backing vocals on his sixth album; she has received a nomination. To my mind it's clear that Emily Portman or Jim Moray are as far as the jury's taste gets in terms of "edgy".

It's no big deal in the grand scheme of things, but I do think it's a shame that the R2 awards always have and always will be so conservative. Maybe it's about time fRoots and Spiral Earth and others teamed up to host a small-scale annual alternative folk awards to celebrate the non-Smashie & Nicey stuff?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 11:47 AM

above=me again


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 12:05 PM

I guess if you gather 170 folk enthusiasts together and see what tastes they share, you're likely to get a pretty middle of the road result.

As it happens I nominated Rapunzel & Sedayne in a couple of categories. Clearly nobody else did...


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 12:43 PM

Does that mean I can use 'Nominated for BBC2 Folk Award' on our publicity now, Raymond?

Otherwise, what's all the fuss about?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 03:52 PM

Suibhne –

strictly speaking I suppose you could, but it would be a bit cheeky. If x numbers of my fellow jurors (whoever they are) had voted for Rapunzel & Sedayne along with me, R&S would have made the shortlist and could justifiably proclaim themselves nominees. It's making that shortlist that really counts.

Fuss – what fuss,ahem...?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 04:12 PM

I jest of course. And besides, we don't do publicity. Nor yet do we crave any higher status than that which the fates bestow on us. Be Glad, as we old heads still mutter as our mantra...


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: LesB
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 08:32 AM

I am delighted to see our own (Bothy's) Kevin Littlewood being nominated for Best Original Song with 'On Morecambe Bay'.
As previously posted Kevins own version can be see here Youtube
Also it is available on the Bothy residents CD 'Residents Lounge' available here Abicat only £5
I am sure we would all wish him and Christie Moore good luck despite your views on the rights and wrongs of the awards.
Cheers
Les


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Mad Spaniel
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 08:52 AM

The finalists don't reflect the way i voted with the exception of Bellowhead for the live award.
Maybe the voting is so widespread and various that the ones who get the nod for the final four are in the end condensation of this wonderful and varied world we inhabit rather than a reflection of it?
I don't have a conspiracy thoery about it. Just see and hear so many wonderful players that i don't think ANY awards would ever really do it justice


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Pete Rimmer
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 11:03 AM

Great to see Kevin's Song doing well.
His recording on Bothy Folk Club CD is quite different,well worth listen.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Azoic
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 01:42 PM

A question for everyone-------When all is said and done ,which of the nominees are YOU most pulling for?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 02:34 PM

I pull only for my own pleasure..
That is the only reward I require..
Wonder why I feel so drawn to these threads?
:)


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 06:16 PM

I still want to find a band that plays traditional music and sounds like the MC5, Wooden Shjips, Sun Ra, Crazy Horse, Mr Fox, Nusrat Fatah Ali Khan, The Allman Brothers and Boards of Canada all pulverised in a big old blender. With a singer who sounds like Lizzie Higgins.

A track I finished this evening ended up sounding like Augustus Pablo jamming with the Burundi drummers and Faust, with a singer with a fake American accent. No idea how that happened.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 06:44 PM

Pip, you're talking my language!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 06:19 AM

Watch this space!


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 06:40 AM

For no godo reason --100


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 06:42 AM

Why did it still show '99' when I started , despite a twenty minute gap ?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 06:17 PM

Traddie melodica bongo fury: here (last track but one).


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Reinhard
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 12:40 AM

The lifetime achievement award "to celebrate their contributions to folk and acoustic music" will go to The Dubliners and to Don McLean. Mike Harding announce it yesterday.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 03:33 AM

Long overdue for The Dubliners, Luke Kelly, Ronnie Drew, Ciaron Bourke and Bobby Lynch all gone now.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Howard Jones
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 03:45 AM

As expected, an award to someone the public will have heard of, but whose "lifetime achievement" seems to be two (admittedly very good) songs.

Well-deserved by the Dubliners though.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Mitch the Bass
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 08:37 AM

From the BBC press anouncement -

One of the other prestigious awards of the night - the Roots Award, awarded in recognition of an outstanding contribution to Folk Music from a Grass Roots level upwards - will be presented to Malcolm Taylor OBE. Malcolm is the Director of the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library at the English Folk Dance and Song Society. He's receiving the Roots Award for his outstanding contribution for over 30 years of service.

Malcolm Taylor said: "I am surprised and honoured to be receiving this award. The real star of the show is the Ralph Vaughan Williams Library itself. I am absolutely delighted to be accepting the award on behalf of the library and archive collections."


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Silas
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 08:45 AM

The Dubliners - fair enough (anything is better than Donovan for christs sake), perhaps they will get round to the Spinners before they have to award this honour postumously?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Folknacious
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 10:53 AM

Last year Don O'Van. This year Don MacLean. Dons of dubious folk credentials who last had hits decades ago. Who will be next, following that pattern? Jason Donovan? Don Lang & His Frantic 5? Perhaps Wizz Jones would get the one he deserves if he changed to an anagram of his real name, Raymond : Don Mary Jones . . . ?


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 11:27 AM

For what it's worth, I always thought Sonny was a bad Don.....


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,Jon Dudley
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 11:37 AM

The award to Malcolm Taylor is richly deserved.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 04:27 AM

I like the Don idea.....

Don Corleone, Don Partridge......Streets of Lon Don


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Brian Peters
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 01:32 PM

Indeed Jon D, no arguments at all about Malcolm Taylor's award. Being the modest chap that he is, of course he had to say:

"The real star of the show is the Ralph Vaughan Williams Library itself. I am absolutely delighted to be accepting the award on behalf of the library and archive collections."

Those of us who use the library know very well that, although the collection itself is fabulous, Malcolm is the perfect guide to it. Immensely knowledgable, passionately committed, unfailingly helpful and, on top of all that, a nice ordinary chap without the kind of pretensions or academic dryness that someone in his position might be expected to hide behind. He really is the star of the show.


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 02:11 PM

The Spinners deserve one if anybody does. Three still with us - so get a move on BBC

L in C#


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Vic Smith
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 02:13 PM

Jon Dudley wrote:-
"The award to Malcolm Taylor is richly deserved. "


Malcolm Taylor & Shirley Collins at the launch of the Take 6 project in 2009 :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyk1zOqAyLg


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 06:11 PM

This is for whoever followed the link to my Bandcamp site promising "traddie melodica bongo fury". I'm afraid that track (a version of House of the Rising Sun) could only be played online for a couple of days; it's now available as an 'extra' if you download the Indigo album.

Some more Knitted Folk, complete with melodica and bongoes, here (tracks 2, 8 and 10).


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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Nominations - 2012
From: GUEST,s-j in london
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 08:36 AM

'
"The real star of the show is the Ralph Vaughan Williams Library itself. I am absolutely delighted to be accepting the award on behalf of the library and archive collections."

Those of us who use the library know very well that, although the collection itself is fabulous, Malcolm is the perfect guide to it. Immensely knowledgable, passionately committed, unfailingly helpful and, on top of all that, a nice ordinary chap without the kind of pretensions or academic dryness that someone in his position might be expected to hide behind. He really is the star of the show. '

Agreed, Brian Peters!
:)


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