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BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???

Bobert 16 Nov 11 - 07:55 PM
Little Hawk 16 Nov 11 - 08:03 PM
Rapparee 16 Nov 11 - 08:03 PM
Bobert 16 Nov 11 - 08:06 PM
catspaw49 16 Nov 11 - 08:08 PM
Little Hawk 16 Nov 11 - 08:11 PM
Don Firth 16 Nov 11 - 08:22 PM
Little Hawk 16 Nov 11 - 08:25 PM
Rapparee 16 Nov 11 - 08:26 PM
catspaw49 16 Nov 11 - 09:11 PM
Bobert 16 Nov 11 - 09:23 PM
catspaw49 16 Nov 11 - 10:05 PM
Little Hawk 17 Nov 11 - 01:25 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 17 Nov 11 - 01:44 AM
Arkie 17 Nov 11 - 02:36 PM
beardedbruce 17 Nov 11 - 02:42 PM
Little Hawk 17 Nov 11 - 05:15 PM
Bobert 17 Nov 11 - 05:30 PM
Little Hawk 17 Nov 11 - 05:40 PM
Bobert 17 Nov 11 - 05:46 PM
Little Hawk 17 Nov 11 - 05:51 PM
Bobert 17 Nov 11 - 06:03 PM
Jack the Sailor 17 Nov 11 - 06:43 PM
Donuel 17 Nov 11 - 07:14 PM
BTNG 17 Nov 11 - 07:22 PM
Greg F. 17 Nov 11 - 08:58 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 18 Nov 11 - 01:44 PM
MarkS 18 Nov 11 - 04:29 PM
Jack the Sailor 18 Nov 11 - 05:08 PM
Bobert 18 Nov 11 - 08:35 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 18 Nov 11 - 10:24 PM
GUEST,999 19 Nov 11 - 09:25 AM
Jack the Sailor 19 Nov 11 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,999 19 Nov 11 - 01:34 PM
Jack the Sailor 19 Nov 11 - 01:45 PM
GUEST,999 19 Nov 11 - 01:53 PM
BTNG 19 Nov 11 - 01:53 PM
Jack the Sailor 19 Nov 11 - 02:05 PM
GUEST 19 Nov 11 - 03:53 PM
BTNG 19 Nov 11 - 04:08 PM
GUEST,999 19 Nov 11 - 04:24 PM
BTNG 19 Nov 11 - 04:31 PM
bobad 19 Nov 11 - 04:44 PM
Jack the Sailor 19 Nov 11 - 05:35 PM
bobad 20 Nov 11 - 09:30 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 21 Nov 11 - 01:52 AM

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Subject: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 07:55 PM

Seems that the current Republican presidential wantabees are into "huff and puff" on Iran and ready to "Bomb, baby, bomb"....

What the hell is wrong with these people, anyway???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:03 PM

Oh, they're probably under the impression that they are fighting "evil" and protecting "democracy"...

Or maybe they just love war so much that they simply can't get enough of it.

Actually, I think they're just doing standard election propaganda which they hope will get them votes and hurt Obama. (the standard Republican tactic is ALWAYS to make the Democrats look like they're "afraid to fight" a foreign enemy, and their supporters believe it too).


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:03 PM

It's fine with me, as long as they pay their own way and don't use any of our troops or military stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:06 PM

Party pooper, Rap...

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:08 PM

Not to worry.......Mitt will change his mind 15 times by the weekend whereas Newt will gyrate around looking for the best (read: most popular) position and finally settle on some fence straddling policy.

Perry and Cain couldn't find the place on the best day they ever had. Perry would forget what country it was he wanted to bomb and Cain would become confused thinking Iran was an old rape victim of his named Irene.

Ron Paul would invade so he could have a government to dismantle of his very own and of course he wouldn't want to destroy it before he had a chance to fuck it up personally. Michelle Bachmann would blame it all on Obama then ask what was the question.

Finally Woodson and Santorum would have to get some tiny iota of support before they could invade McComb, Illinois...........


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:11 PM

Wonderful idea, Rap! ;-D I think that all American politicians who are in favor of attacking Iran should be given a sidearm, a parachute, and dropped over Iranian airspace ASAP after being told "Go get 'em, tiger!" Same goes for Israeli politicians who want to attack Iran. We'd get rid of a number of undesirable public figures right quick by doing that, and it might result in a saner general approach to conducting international relations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:22 PM

There's one helluva lot of money to be made from military contracts. Just ignore the body-count and concentrate on the PROFITS!!

There is a lot of animal cunning in this collection of people, but beyond that—well, let me put it this way:   I'm well into the state of geezerhood and I've seen a mighty lot of presidential elections. But I've never seen a field of potential candidates before as downright, bloody ignorant and rapacious as this collection of yahoos!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:25 PM

You're wrong about Ron Paul, Pat. He is totally opposed to invading Iran or any other foreign country. He wants to close American military bases in other countries, end the foreign wars, and bring the American troops home. He wants to invest in domestic infrastructure, not in building an overseas empire.

In saying that, I am NOT supporting Ron Paul's EVERY other policy, domestic or otherwise. I'm simply saying that I agree with his views on America's foreign wars and his views on foreign intervention by the USA in the internal affairs of other nations. He says it's wrong to do that. I agree.

Perry and Cain wouldn't have to find the place. ;-) They have a Joint Chiefs of Staff, a military force, and a CIA to find it for them. All they'd have to do is rubber-stamp the orders when the piece of paper was put on their desk. That's what the bozos are put there in the Oval Office for, don't you know?


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:26 PM

Call 'em like you see 'em, Don, and stop beating around the bush.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 09:11 PM

Sorry for the jokes..........Of course the entire field is nothing but jokes. My fear is that one of these fuckin' jokes will be elected. Obama has grown some still small sized balls but at least they are growing.

Most of these guys are lousy politicians including Obama. Politicians understand dealing from strength and then working "across the aisle." They have the ability to persuade others like themselves and that makes this system work. Clinton understood that and even with all the congressional fighting, he accomplished a lot. Look back and you'll see the most successful ones all had that skill.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 09:23 PM

The problem, Spawz, is that with redistricting and re-redistricting we only get wackos... Purdy messed up system...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 10:05 PM

Of course it is Bobert. But this is all you can expect and then you need revolution.

"The people will fancy an appearance of freedom; Illusion will be their native land.".............Jacques Ellul

And what did he say were the "illusions?" I found this great synopsis of what Ellul wrote of often:

# That "the people" control the state in a democracy

# Voting controls the course of events [changing those in office means to change nothing, as politicians simply deal with with ephemeral matters or work within constraints (i.e. "iron rails"

# "The people" participate substantially in the doings of the state

# Organizations, such as parties or trade unions, channel popular desires [these organizations require men at the top who are professional politicians concerned with little else than the eternal struggle to attain and retain power against rivals in their own and all other camps. Therefore, these men are interested only in having the support of numbers, and the hopes and aspirations of the rank and file are filtered not up but out.

# Information provided to "the people" is relevant and pertinent [citizens in a state, are dependent upon the information fed them, and the state, party or union hierarchs are expert in managing information and in preventing all nonconforming forces from emerging.

# Politics provides real solutions ["the people" demand political solutions, but no political solutions exist for genuine political problems consists of truly contradictory facts that merely permit equitable settlements. Yet the technicians more and more present all political problems as solvable equations, and "the people" expect solutions for everything



When the methodology of the system changes then perhaps we regain the freedoms we have given up. Now if this reminds you of Ron Paul......Ellul was at the other side of the spectrum. But there are spectrums and spectrums. I don't argue about this philosophy anymore......I just watch it slowly happen as in the Occupy Movement. One day it will ballon up to far greater heights and POOF and WHOOPS!!!----Revolution!!!


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 01:25 AM

I couldn't agree more. Jacques Ellul sums it up perfectly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 01:44 AM

There you go again, Bobert. Neither party is going to do jack shit, unless they find a profit in it, from their inside trading buddies from Wall Street, and the bankers...then they'll vote for whatever is going to turn them the best profit! It doesn't matter what party they're from! Martha Stewart did it(insider trading), and the nation was in an uproar....Three Democrats on the 'super committee' are known to have been doing it...and still are!..and Pelosi, Hilary Clinton, Reid, and John Boehner. It's the club!..and how the payoffs have been funneled for years...and it's now FINALLY getting notice in the so called 'news'.
Jeez, wake up and get a life!
It would be really cool if you just got your shit together, and took a good hard look at the reality of things!

BTW, proof is abundantly available, outside the rock your living under.
Same for that other dunder-head! You partisan promoters could do so much better, if only you were capable of re-addressing your energies in to the REAL issues! You back the OWS crowd...but the guys you like, that are publicly backing them, are the same ones profiting from passing whatever legislation, good or bad that will cause the market to get their stocks up! That's one reason MORE that makes them full of shit...and their 'devotees' such crackpots!

GfS

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Arkie
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:36 PM

There is always an advantage in painting a picture of a dangerous enemy and providing a segment of our population with someone to fear and hate and offering to be the nation's only possible savior.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:42 PM

Arkie,


"There is always an advantage in painting a picture of a dangerous enemy and providing a segment of our population with someone to fear and hate and offering to be the nation's only possible savior."

What, you mean like the evil Wall Street Bankers, or the horrible Teaparty folks that those Bobert supports will save us from???


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 05:15 PM

I haven't seen any B-52 strikes, predator drones, cruise missiles or military invasions launched yet against the Wall Street Bankers or the Tea Party. I haven't even seen any police action against them. But I have seen police action taken against peaceful demonstrators who are protesting against the abuse and fraud of Wall Street.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 05:30 PM

"Both sides are the same" = Republican PR...

Exhibit A: This bullshit isn't coming from progressives... You don't hear Bernie Sanders or Dennis Kucinich parroting this Republican propaganda...

The Republicans are spending tons of cash to spread this nonsense...
But, like I've said before, the Mudville-Both-Sides-the-Same-Queen is a dyed-in-the-wool Republican...

((((((((((((((((((((((((((Yawn))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 05:40 PM

To say that both parties are corrupted through the same lobbying processes is to state the plainly obvious. That doesn't mean they're "the same", it simply means you can't trust either of them to significantly change the existing system of graft and corruption once they are in office.

Dennis Kucinich is hardly typical of the majority of the Democratic Party in Congress. He's his own man, and I think he's an honest man. Most of the others are creatures of Big Business, they do what the lobbyists want them to do. Ron Paul is also his own man, as far as I can see, and he's a Republican. This isn't a matter of party preference, it's a matter of identifying systemic corruption of the political process in Washington no matter which party is guilty of pandering to it.

I have, as yet, received not one red cent from anyone to say this, Bobert...nor do I expect to. ;-D You're implying that GfS is a Republican? Not a chance. GfS doesn't believe in either one of those parties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 05:46 PM

BS, LH...

She's Republican and you are blind as a bat and gullible to be taken in by her propaganda...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 05:51 PM

Do you imagine that everyone who disagrees with you about an American political matter MUST therefore be a Republican, Bobert? ;-)

Your attitude on this kind of reminds me of those Spanish Inquisition guys...if you didn't agree with them about everything, you were a servant of Satan! Same basic thing, right?

And then there are those Republicans who think that everyone who doesn't see it their way MUST be a socialist! Same basic routine again. Too funny.

I call it the old "If they're against me, they must be as completely awful and depraved and evil as I think they are! Crucify them!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 06:03 PM

Nah, it ain't that at all, LH...

One party has made it perfectly clear that they'd like to Deep Six the New Deal...

One party is perfectly happy seeing the disenfranchisement of voters... 70,000 older black voters have been removed from the voting roles in SC for the crime of being born at home 60 years ago...

One party has actively used it's power to kill unions...

One party thinks that corporations are people...

One party stole a presidential election...

One party thinks that using goons to scare people from town hall meeting is fine...

One party has threatened to use 2nd amendment remeidies against folks who do not agree with them...

I mean, get off the GfinS Fantasy Bus and smell reality for a change...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 06:43 PM

Gfs is just a shit disturber, trying to start arguments.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 07:14 PM

With all of Obama's success in killing the high profile sworn enemies of the US, Republicans need a foreign policy issue they can hold up as an example of "a failure to act". FOX news appears to be declaring war on Iran with endless stories of new bunker busting bombs and Iran assembling their first atomic bombs.

I believe bombing nuclear materials in Iran is a sad bad idea.

Even if Russia and China said, "sure go ahead, just wait until we are not downwind of the fallout", Pakistan would demonstrate Arab solidarity with some nuclear retallation of their own, but claim no knowledge of such an act.

Obama did meet with the Russian President in Hawaii and had some talks with China who is currently upset that the US is projecting power in the Pacific with new bases in Australia. I don't think they agreed that we start bombing Iran.

Romney, Perry or that Cain in the ass guy don't need no permission from nobody nohow to bomb the hell out of Persia. After all, Nostradamus already predicted it, the Bible told them to, the rapture needs help and astrologers have warned the Earth is headed into Uranus on the 9th hour of the 9th day in the 9th house of Glabnar. All they need to know is the feeling in their gut, which happens to be the same thing they have for brains.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: BTNG
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 07:22 PM

Let the entire Republican Party membership go to Iran LOL

A warning to the war-at-any-cost set, the Irani's will fight back, and not be steamrollered. I seem to remember that Canada had to pull six U.S. dipolmats asses out of the Irani fire back in 1979. There's a lesson there somewhere, but I doubt the warmongers are capable of learning from it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 08:58 PM

What, you mean like the evil Wall Street Bankers, or the horrible Teaparty folks that those Bobert supports will save us from???

No, Beardie, he' don't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 01:44 PM

"Pakistan would demonstrate Arab solidarity with some nuclear retallation of their own ... "

Can I just point out that neither the Pakistanis nor the Iranians are 'Arabs'!


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: MarkS
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 04:29 PM

The only justification to invade Iran would be if they actually built a nuke, placed it on one of the medium range missiles they already have, and explode it in Israel.
Whether or not they will be able to do that anytime soon is a whole 'nother topic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 05:08 PM

The only assets able to track a missile from Iran to Israel are in the hands of the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. They could explode what they wanted in Israel and say it came from where ever they wanted. No one could prove otherwise. But that would not matter. People will believe what they want to believe. Think about 911 or JFK.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 08:35 PM

Like Iran is going to nuke Israel??? Vegas has the odds a 10 gazillion to 1 that that wouldn't happen even if Iran could...

This is the part the folks don't seem to get... We comprehended this with the Cuban Missile Crisis some 50 years ago... Mutual destruction is bot an option for any sane society... Iran might have some issues but their people are basically sane...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 10:24 PM

Bobert: "This is the part the folks don't seem to get... We comprehended this with the Cuban Missile Crisis some 50 years ago... Mutual destruction is bot an option for any sane society... Iran might have some issues but their people are basically sane...

B~"


No wonder there's none of them on Mudcat!!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 09:25 AM

"Iran might have some issues but their people are basically sane..."

True enough, Bobert, but their leadership ain't. I wouldn't want to laud Iran.

For more on Iran, check out Amnesty International or the Iran Human Rights Documentation Center. Both worth reading in this regard.

################################################

Detonated nuclear weapons not being traceable--they are. However, it then comes down to whether or not you trust the people who do the tracing.

################################################

As Bobert said, MAD is not an option, but it was international policy for decades. IMO, it still is in Israel. A nuclear response would come if any WMD were used on it. Israel has had nukes for a long time. They have not used them, and they could have. While I am not a fan of all Israeli policies or actions, I do understand, and people who post here should understand that, too.

While we--the people of this planet--once again (or still) walk a tightrope, we must keep in mind that once the cat of WMDs are out of the bag there will be no more cat, no more bag and no more planet. Rhetoric, political opinions and dislikes will disappear concomitantly with whoever is right and whoever is wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 12:54 PM

How would the world change if Iran had nukes?

Based on the news of North Korea half exploding a half baked weapon a few years ago, I think the that discussion of invading Iran would cease.

If they had a couple of bombs and a platform big and fast enough to deliver them would they pre-emptively strike Israel facing retaliation from Israel's estimated 200 weapons and NATO's 20,000?


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 01:34 PM

"How would the world change if Iran had nukes?"

It would make the world a safer place? Jack, on a scale of one to ten you just outdid yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 01:45 PM

I don't recall saying. "make the world a safer place"

It would certainly make Iran a safer place.

Now getting rid of Israel's nukes would make the whole world safer, including and most especially, the people who live in Israel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 01:53 PM

1) I said 'It would make the world a safer place?' in regard to your question, "How would the world change if Iran had nukes?"

2) I think that no one having nukes would be a good thing, but I don't see that happening anytime soon, Jack.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: BTNG
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 01:53 PM

Same words, different ethnic/political group. The Republicans have hawking (pun intended) the same paranoid horseshit for years


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 02:05 PM

I don't think that Iran having a bomb or two would have any effect on the safety of the world. If Iran were to use it Israel would go apeshit and Israel has 200 bombs. The regime is repressive. So are our friends the Saudis. But I don't think they would trade relatively minor damage to Israel for the obliteration of their homes, their families and their culture. Based on Israel's past any officials who survived the Iranian holocaust could count on being hunted down and punished.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 03:53 PM

Your figure of 200 seems way-far high to me, Jack. No offense, but where's it from?


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: BTNG
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:08 PM

As of 4 years ago Israel was believed to possess between 75 and 400 nuclear warheads with the ability to deliver them by intercontinental ballistic missile, aircraft, and submarine.

source: Israel – Nuclear Weapons, Federation of American Scientists

so who knows how many they have now?


Arms Control and Proliferation Profile: Israel


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:24 PM

That guest post was me.

Thanks, BTNG.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: BTNG
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:31 PM

Not sure where sailor boy got his figure from either, but it appears to be about the half way point on the approximation list.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: bobad
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:44 PM

Israel is not the only Middle Eastern country that doesn't want to see Iran acquire nuclear weapons, many arab countries have pressured the US to stop Iran by any means necessary, including military.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 05:35 PM

That is true.

But "because the Saudis want it." is not a reason to start a major war.

NATO, The Russians and probably the Chinese all are would deter the Iranians from using the bomb on its neighbors. They probably would not obliterate the whole country. But they would destroy everything that even hinted at a military use.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: bobad
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 09:30 AM

IMO the fact that Israel is suspected of possessing nuclear weapons makes the Middle East a safer place - Iran possessing nuclear weapons would make the world a more dangerous place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Republicans to Invade Iran???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 01:52 AM

Hey, its only Jack. He isn't known for being TOO accurate....once in a while....but you know, what I've said before.."A broken clock is right twice a day"....this isn't one of those times.....as usual.

Sorry Jack.

GfS


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