You're not a Folksinger unless......

Subject: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Bert
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 11:47 AM

A dear friend of mine Marti Rogers Here's Her Website says that 'you are not a folksinger unless you can sing Matty Groves'.

I will not dispute that, as she sings much better than I do, but Would counter it with 'you are not a folksinger unless you can sing The Old Sow Song'.

So, just for fun, what would you say?

you are not a folksinger unless you can sing....

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 11:52 AM

You are not a folksinger unless you CAN sing.

PS. Actually, thinking about it...LOL.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Deckman
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 12:06 PM

At least 1,000 folksongs from memory!

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Bert
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 12:20 PM

Uh Oh! Deckman. I'd better start learning. My song list is about five hundred and they are not all folk songs. (And I wouldn't sing some of those without swatting up.)

And True Pete, True. But let us not discourage those who are just learning. It does take a lot of practice to be a singer.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 12:37 PM

...you can sing The Famous Flower of Serving Men. Or, for the more contemporarly minded, Sad eyed Lady of the Lowlands:-)

DtG

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 01:15 PM

bollocks

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Bert
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 01:21 PM

Ah yes! Good Soldier. A great folk song to the tune of Colonel Bogey.

Bollocks, and the same to you
Bollocks they make a very fine stew...

Do you have any more lyrics GSS?

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: johncharles
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 01:27 PM

...it costs you more to get to the gig than they pay you.
john

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Bert
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 01:45 PM

LOL john.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 02:22 PM

you know the difference between a folksinger and a folksong singer.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Bert
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 02:47 PM

Yes, but there are so few folksingers around nowadays that the distinction is rarely made and the term is commonly used to include folksong singers.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Elmore
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 03:57 PM

Sing through your nose,Murder good prose,And sound precisely like Dylan.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 03:59 PM

Sad but true Bert.

But please - just don't sing any Bob Dylan!

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: BTNG
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:00 PM

you finally workout that this thread is yet another variation on the never ending What is Folk Music debate

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: fat B****rd
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:06 PM

.....you foresee another batch of unpleasant rants - which have nothing to do with the subject - between the usual suspects.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: BTNG
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:10 PM

I don't need to apologise for my observation

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:13 PM

I have sung Matty Groves, so I guess I'm a folksinger. ;-)

I also sing Bob Dylan's songs frequently, and I find much enjoyment in annoying people who object to that practice, but I don't try to sound like him, vocally speaking. What for? We already have Bob to do that, just like we already have Neil Young to sound like Neil Young and Louis Armstrong to sound like Louis Armstrong. I have my own voice to work with, after all, so why not use that? I will occasionally mimic some of Bob's typical phrasings and accent just for fun (as Joan Baez does too on occasion), but I mostly prefer to sing in my own natural voice.

I believe that the thing that pisses people off about Dylan is...

- He's done way better than they did.
- He's a lot more famous than they are. And better paid.
- More people like him than like them.
- He's probably more talented than they are too (although that's not a certainty).

or...

- They just don't get what he's doing or saying, period. Incomprehension does not make for good listening.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: BTNG
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:29 PM

Hawk if you want to find out how Dylan reacted, on several occasions, to his being called a folk singer, read Colin Irwin's Legendary Sessions: Bob Dylan: Highway 61 Revisited

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Tunesmith
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:39 PM

Back in the mid-1960s, Bob Dylan was one of only one hundred and fifty-three protest-singers active in the States.
Or was that one hundred and fifty-four protest-singers!

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Bert
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:48 PM

This is supposed to be a fun thread.

I was hoping that people would submit the 'one song' that they sing better than anyone else.

LH, you brought up some good points. Wouldn't the world be a better place if more singers copied Louis Armstrong instead of Bob Dylan?

BTING, I suppose it is really 'what is folk music' but I was hoping for that one song from each of us rather than a general discussion. So what is your answer to?

you are not a folksinger unless you can sing....

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: fat B****rd
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:51 PM

Something that starts with "As I walked out..."

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Joe_F
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:52 PM

Dink's song.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 05:17 PM

The Lumberman's Alphabet

A is for axes that you may all know;
And B is for boys that make them all go;
C is for choppers so early begun
And D is for danger we often stand in.

CHORUS :

'Tis merry, 'tis merry, 'tis merry are we
No mortal on earth, so happy as we.
A derry, Lo derry, Ring derry dum.
Give us shantymen's grog and there'll nothing go wrong.

E is the echo that through the woods rang:
F is the foreman, head one of our gang;
G is the grindstone so merrily goes round
And H is the handle, so smoothly 'tis worn.

I is the Iron that mark-ed the pine;
J is the Jov-al that's never behind;
K is the keen edge our axes we keep
And L is the lice that over us creep.

M is the moss we patch-ed the cracks
And N is the needle we patch-ed our pants;
O is the owl that hooteth at night
And P is the pine that always falls right.

Q is the quarrel we never allow;
R is the river we float our logs down
S is the sleds so stout and so strong
And T is the teams that go jog 'em along.

U is the use we put our teams to;
V is the valley we draw our logs through;
W is the woods we leave in the spring
And this is all I am going to sing.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: BTNG
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 05:32 PM

I'm not a folk singer

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 06:04 PM

""You're not a Folksinger unless""..... you know that the two earliest folk songs known, "Summer is Icumen In" (approx 1250) and "The Cutty Wren" (1302, I believe) do not fit the criteria laid down by the 1954 definition, and can still sing at least one of them.

Don T.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Deckman
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 07:14 PM

"Youksee Humma Humma" .... kittos ... bob(deckman)nelson

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: kendall
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 07:21 PM

I never learned Matty Groves, but I was singing folk songs before Robert Zimmerman was born.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Tootler
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 08:16 PM

The Chevy Chase in full from memory - all 76 verses of it.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 08:27 PM

Thanks Don T, I'm OK then!
BTW, there are a lot earlier versions of Matty Groves!

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 09:55 PM

I never liked Matty Groves. I mean what is the point of that song? As a feat of memory....it's not really up there with Rainman. Read from a loose leaf folder (as it generally is) - its just a ghastly waste of everybody's life.

Is there a moral to the tale?

1) in church, keep your mind on the service
2) always choose the worse looking knife - it works better
3) don't lose you head over a another man's wife
4) women generally end up on top

Hi ho holiday....what IS that all about?

I think Hi Ho Silver Lining's a better folksong.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: GUEST,Neville Grundy
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 12:37 AM

Someone has shouted "Judas!" at you.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: GUEST,Tweetiepie
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 04:40 AM

T'was as a mere lass back in the dephs that I was involved in a band and we sang Matty. Those were the days my friend. 1972/3 wonderful ones but short lived alas and alack methinks. X

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 05:45 AM

well on account of your extreme youth Tweets, you are forgive. But really chopping people's heads off and putting the woman on top.

As Mr Godfrey said in Dad's Army - I don't like that sort of thing....

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: tweetiepie
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 05:52 AM

Al...you flirting with me?????

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Ref
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 09:13 AM

...You've figured out that drawing artificial distinctions about repertoire and experience is a ridiculous and self-limiting exercise. get OVER yourselves.

And Bert? It would be a better world if people would sing, even other peoples' songs, in their OWN voices instead of "copying" anyone.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Elmore
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 10:08 AM

OMG. Yesterday I saw this thread, found it amusing, and stole a couple of lines from Eric Bogle's "Do You Sing Any Dylan?" It appears that someone took me seriously. I enjoy Dylan, love folk music regardless of its definition,and apologize to Bert if My above entry in any way screwed up his concept.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: GUEST,Guest-JD
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 11:44 AM

...you understand your voice is just as necessary/important as Bob Dylan's, sing with community/for community, give a damn about Community, understand the songbird's voice is beautiful because it sings at all.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 12:51 PM

You're not a folksinger unless you are part of the tradition which means that you learn from the tradition and do something of your own with it.

Imitation doesn't get it. Influences are important.

Take these songs and make them your own. Rewrite them if you have to.
Stop just being a scalp collector and become an integral part of the process.
Traditional folk singers are not decrepit museum pieces but part of an evolution.

There can be no folk music without evolution.

Bob Dylan is a pop star. He wanted to be Elvis Presley. He has not lived what he writes about.

Woody Guthrie never saw much money from his songs but "This Land" is known by every school child throughout the world. He learned from the Carter Family, Leadbelly, other traditional singers and wrote simply, clearly, and with the kind of brevity that folk songs have.

Jean Ritchie is another one who writes songs this way.

Pete Seeger writes this way as well.

You're not a folksinger unless you write and sing songs for their sake, not just to make
a buck off of them. A rich folksinger is an oxymoron.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: GUEST,Guest-JD
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 01:17 PM

Stringsinger, your mention of Jean is wonderfully encouraging. Your insight is very fitting for the intentional farming community that I live and work in everyday. We are a CSA run by the mentally ill, and every morning before we go to work, 60 to 100 of us sing together and someone will share a poem. If I stood up and quoted some of the entries from this thread, I cannot tell you how many schizoprenic farmers would become mute and be ashamed of their own voice. These are basic folk songs which have proven to be a crucial aspect of our farm's success for over 100 years. So to all the snobbish folkies, there is a folksinger in all of us, and while we wash the dishes or plow the fields, we don't need permission or need to know every verse of 1000 songs. We just sing...and that's a beautiful thing.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 01:19 PM

Guest-JD, I second your emotion.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Ref
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 01:53 PM

JD and Stringsinger, you've got it right! Except...every school child knows PART of "This Land." Very few know the "In the streets of the city..." verse.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 02:19 PM

There was a big high wall there that tried to stop me;
    Sign was painted, it said private property;
    But on the back side it said nothing
    This land was made for you and me.

    In the squares of the city, In the shadow of a steeple;
    By the relief office, I'd seen my people.
    As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking,
    Is this land made for you and me?

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Young Buchan
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 02:36 PM

... without the written words in front of you.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Young Buchan
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 02:37 PM

... more traditional songs than non traditional ones.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Young Buchan
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 02:39 PM

... to people sitting no more than 10 yards away without using a bloody amplifier.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Young Buchan
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 02:40 PM

... unaccompanied.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Elmore
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 02:46 PM

Through your nose

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Bert
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 02:47 PM

Yes Stringsinger.

Traditions change. The pub 'party piece' sing around is dying and being replaced by the Open Mike.

More and more song writers are coming to the fore and are getting better. "This is one I wrote myself" is being replaced by "this is an original" and doesn't elicit the silent groans that it did twenty or more years ago.

...You're not a folksinger unless you write and sing songs for their sake...

That is true but I also like to sing songs that entertain, amuse and sometimes educate my audience.

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 03:13 PM

Tweetie Pie whenever you fancy a pluck, my banjo is at your service....

Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless......
From: tweetiepie
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 07:10 PM

:>}} tweet tweet twiddly dee....

My first foray into the world of folk was through "the Joan Baez song book" Taught myself a few basic chords on guitar and went forth into the great folk unknown.

Never was allowed to do the nasal bit. When first starting to sing with my ex he said" You can cut that out right now" I just automatically went into a nasal twang but stopped it as was told!!!

I remember the Days of yore in the "Fir tree"..Iffley road Oxford with great singers like Graham Metcalfe and Ian Giles..now they can sing songs and I can listen till the cows come home.

Sorry gone into reminisce mode. X