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Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?

Big Al Whittle 20 Nov 11 - 05:40 AM
greg stephens 20 Nov 11 - 07:54 AM
Will Fly 20 Nov 11 - 08:33 AM
GUEST,Shining Wit 20 Nov 11 - 10:10 AM
Big Al Whittle 20 Nov 11 - 10:22 AM
Mr Happy 20 Nov 11 - 10:26 AM
foggers 20 Nov 11 - 10:43 AM
GUEST,Georgina Boyes 20 Nov 11 - 03:14 PM
Big Al Whittle 20 Nov 11 - 09:18 PM
Big Al Whittle 21 Nov 11 - 01:40 AM
mayomick 21 Nov 11 - 03:27 AM
Musket 21 Nov 11 - 03:39 AM
foggers 21 Nov 11 - 09:13 AM
Trevor Thomas 21 Nov 11 - 11:00 AM
Marje 21 Nov 11 - 11:55 AM
GUEST,Georgina Boyes 21 Nov 11 - 12:50 PM
Big Al Whittle 21 Nov 11 - 02:09 PM
Big Al Whittle 21 Nov 11 - 02:33 PM
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Subject: Sheffield/Irish accents - a connection?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 05:40 AM

The first time I was in a Sheffield folk club and I heard the locals talk, I thought they were speaking with an Irish accent. They corrected me. They said we're talking dee-da's, which is apparently a local dialect.


Thinking about it years later - really an American would have thought they all were Irish. It sounded very similar. And there are a lot of Irish people in Sheffield - originally Irish, that is - probably English now.

Perhaps they came from Belfast and worked in the mills over here originally...?

Do any locals thoughts stray along similar lines?


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 07:54 AM

Well, I have to say that from an English perspective the Sheffield accent doesn't sound remotely Irish.


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 08:33 AM

Have a read:

Sheffield dialect words


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: GUEST,Shining Wit
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 10:10 AM

We're from over the hill from Sheffield, just south of Manchester and we were asked in Vegas the other week if we were Irish. When se said that we weren't, then the guy said that we must be from the north of England then. And he is right.


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 10:22 AM

Im English, Greg.


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 10:26 AM

Im?


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: foggers
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 10:43 AM

The term "dee dah" refers to the survival of the use of "thee" and "thou" for you\your in northern english dialects. In Sheffield the "th" is hardened to a soft "d" and the "ou" is shortened to "a". However, just over the border into Derbyshire (my neck of the woods) the "th" sound prevails. I grew up with the terms thee-thah and dee-dah being used as slightly derogatory terms for "that lot just over the border who don't know how to speak properly". Just a year back when we moved house, our new neighbours commented that my OH is a dee-dah because he is from Sheffield.

As to any links with Irish dialects, I can't see any similarities.


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 03:14 PM

I was born and lived almost all my life to date in Sheffield and Rotherham and can't think of even the remotest similarity between Dee-Dahs and north or south Irish accents.

I'm not sure what Big Al means about 'mills' either. Spinning and weaving weren't Sheffield industries (that was further west in Yorkshire), steel-making, cutlery and holloware and engineering were - and to some extent - still are major employers.


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 09:18 PM

Well this doubt in my mind is a result of a cyber chat with the late Malcolm Douglas - a while back. You're probably right and there's no connection.


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 01:40 AM

correcyion (must have been tired when I wrote that) Malcolm Edwards


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: mayomick
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 03:27 AM

There may be a connection to the way English is spoken in Ireland . My grandfather from Mayo spoke English with a slight Yorkshire accent according to my father . He grew up speaking mostly Irish. Like many people from the area he came from, he learned much of his English while working in the north of England.


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: Musket
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 03:39 AM

The city is split in two.

They speak excellent coherent English (fellow Owls)

They speak bollocks (Blades)


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: foggers
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 09:13 AM

Ian - imagine the conflict in our household ; me a thee-thah of Spireite tendencies, and he a dee-dah of with leanings to the Owls.


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: Trevor Thomas
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 11:00 AM

When Al said 'Mills' I thought he meant Steel Mills, of which there were many - unless they weren't called mills?

The use of 'd' for 'th' is common to Sheffield and Irish accents (and also Liverpool, come to that), but I've lived in Sheffield, what, 25 years or more and I don't think Irish and Sheffield accents are particularly similar at all.


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: Marje
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 11:55 AM

Ah now, Liverpool, that's another matter entirely. Liverpool English is noticeably Irish-influenced, in a way that I can't hear in Sheffield or other northern English accents. And the Devon accent has odd similarities with Northern Irish, for reasons I can't quite fathom.

Many non-standard British accents and dialects use pronunciations that were once widespread but are no longer heard in "RP" English (the variety that most foreigners are likely to be familiar with).It's likely that whoever it was in Vegas who made the wild guess was simply unfamiliar with northern English accents, and heard them as quaintly non-English (i.e. Irish).

Marje


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 12:50 PM

I've never heard of Sheffield steel being produced in "mills" - they were always called "steel works" or even just "the works".


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 02:09 PM

Sheffield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SheffieldCached - Similar
You +1'd this publicly. Undo
Increased automation and competition from abroad resulted in the closure of many steel mills....

Perhaps that's why you never heard of them Georgina. if you travelled down the M1 in the 1970's you have seen miles of them rolling out steel.


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Subject: RE: Sheffiels/Irish accents - a connection?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 02:33 PM

Actually though - I'll fess up. i was thinking about textiles.

Like i say, it wasn't a very intelligent or informed set of thoughts. Malcolm was trying to think of songs to do with the textile industry that existed in Yorkshire.

i suggested a song called The Doffing Mistress. Malcolm said, no that was a Belfast song.

Naturally I bowed to his superior knowledge, but afterwards I got to thinking about all the Irish people I had met over years of gigging round Sheffield and Yorkshire generally. And I wondered if the song could have migrated.

if you say there was no textile industry in Sheffield, I'm sure you're right.


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