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Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS

Phil Edwards 25 Nov 11 - 04:47 PM
Helen 26 Nov 11 - 01:53 PM
Phil Edwards 26 Nov 11 - 03:40 PM
Helen 26 Nov 11 - 09:51 PM
Helen 27 Nov 11 - 01:50 PM
migginz 27 Nov 11 - 02:37 PM
Phil Edwards 27 Nov 11 - 06:17 PM
Helen 28 Nov 11 - 06:17 AM
Helen 28 Nov 11 - 02:04 PM
GUEST,leeneia 28 Nov 11 - 02:06 PM
Nigel Parsons 29 Nov 11 - 10:11 AM
GUEST,leeneia 29 Nov 11 - 11:04 AM
JohnB 29 Nov 11 - 12:00 PM
Helen 29 Nov 11 - 01:06 PM
GUEST,leeneia 29 Nov 11 - 05:36 PM
Phil Edwards 29 Nov 11 - 06:16 PM
JohnB 30 Nov 11 - 12:07 AM
Joe Offer 30 Nov 11 - 01:43 AM
GUEST,leeneia 30 Nov 11 - 11:01 AM
Phil Edwards 30 Nov 11 - 11:31 AM
GUEST,leeneia 30 Nov 11 - 11:43 AM
Phil Edwards 30 Nov 11 - 11:57 AM
JohnB 30 Nov 11 - 07:14 PM
Helen 03 Dec 11 - 04:04 PM
GUEST 11 Dec 11 - 12:09 PM
Phil Edwards 13 Dec 11 - 04:20 PM
GUEST,leeneia 13 Dec 11 - 06:25 PM
Phil Edwards 13 Dec 11 - 06:48 PM
Artful Codger 14 Dec 11 - 02:53 AM
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Subject: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 04:47 PM

I've been listening to Jon Boden & friends' rendition of "The Holly and the Ivy", from AFSAD about a year ago, and trying to puzzle out the parts. I gave up when I realised that no one voice was carrying the main melody line, which I believe is what's known as "just being awkward".

Still, I'd love to see the dots for The Holly and the Ivy - this version, not the more familiar one - arranged for two or more voices. Can anyone point me at such a thing?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Helen
Date: 26 Nov 11 - 01:53 PM

Hi Pip,

There is a sample track (no. 14) from A Folk Song A Day : December on this Amazon page.


Is this the version you are looking for?

It helps to know which arrangement you are looking for so that people who know more about harmony in singing than I do, can help you find the answer to your query.

From a quick listen, it sounds like everyone except the high female voice are singing the notes from chords, but as I said, I'm only guessing on that, and other people will pick it right away.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 26 Nov 11 - 03:40 PM

That's the one.

"Singing the notes from chords" - the third and the fifth?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Helen
Date: 26 Nov 11 - 09:51 PM

Well Pip, that's where I would be out of my league to comment. It sounds to me like some of Steeleye Span's harmonies, but also reminds me a bit of Welsh choir arrangements. Thirds and fifths is what I thought it might be, but it depends what chords are being used.

Now that we have a sound file to listen to I expect there'll be a rush to provide expert advice, and I can stop floundering about hoping I'm not making a total ass of myself. :-)

Helen


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Helen
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 01:50 PM

Help! I don't know the right answer, and now I'm curious too. Any further comments from singers and harmony makers would be appreciated, please.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: migginz
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 02:37 PM

David Burbidge (Lakeland Voice) has put all the parts to a version of The Holly & the Ivy on You Tube

It might not be what you are looking for but its worth a try. Enjoy


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 06:17 PM

Not exactly what Jon & Faye & friends were singing, but very useful - thanks!


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Helen
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 06:17 AM

Hi again,

I just did a Google search for The Holly and the Ivy sheet music. This is the first site I tried and it has a PDF file of a

4 part version of song for soprano, alto, tenor, bass

You can save or print the sheet music.

I don't know whether the arrangement is anything at all like what you want, but there are probably heaps of other sheet music available.

I also looked in my 3 Christmas carol books, but I can't try them out because hubby is asleep, and I'm about to go to sleep too (we're in Australia).

I've also been thinking that the harmonies on the version you are looking for reminds me of Steeleye Span's arrangement of the song Gaudete, and it also reminds me of The Coventry Carol (Lullay Thou Little Tiny Child).

The drone I mentioned is a repetition of a low note or couple of notes throughout the tune, similar to the effect of the drone on bagpipes or other pipes.

I'll have a play with the versions I have of The Holly & The Ivy tomorrow if possible, and see whether the arrangements are similar to the music sample I found.

My other thought was that you could probably contact Jon Boden through his site and I expect he would give you some guidance on how the harmonies are arranged.

Do you have any music notation software e.g. Noteworthy Composer. You could play around with arranging the harmonies based on thirds and fifths and see if it sounds right.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Helen
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 02:04 PM

Pip,

I forgot to say: to save the pdf sheet music, wave your cursor over the bottom left hand corner of the sheet music page and a little toolbar pops up. You can save it, print it, choose the page etc from that toolbar. For this song there is only one page.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 02:06 PM

I can't help out with the version by Jon Boden, but I'm going to send a MIDI to Joe with vocal parts, a part for a handdrum and a recorder playing along. (I wrote it just now.) I hope you can handle MIDI. If not, somebody will think of something, I'm sure.

You will have to tweak the words a little to fit the note lengths.

You will note that there is a measure which takes a C chord the first time and an Am the second. This is one of my little specialties.

I hope you like it. If you don't, you may folk process it.


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Subject: Lyr Add: The Holly Tree (Y Gelynnen)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 10:11 AM

Not what you'r looking for, I know!

THE HOLLY TREE (Y Gelynnen)

1. Now gather round my loving friends,
and let us praise the holly,
There's no tree grows in the wood
That is so bright and jolly.
Chorus Fol-di-rol-di-ri-do, Fol-di-rid-dle-ri, O fol-di-rol-di-ri-do!
There's no tree grows in the wood that is so bright and jolly.


2. The ancient oak is very strong,
The yew is melancholy.
You can have them both so long
as you give me the holly!

3. The sparrow and the blackbird nest
In trees that please their folly,
But my sweetheart loves to rest
beneath the shining holly.

X: 1
T: The Holly Tree
M: 2/4
L: 1/8
S: Singing Together Autumn 1971
Z: NP 29/11/2011
K: D
F | DFDF|DFA>A| BBe>d | cA3 | d>d DF | DFB>A | G(F/G/)EA |FD3 |D/E/F/G/AA| D/E/F/G/A>A| BBe>d|cA3 | d>dDF|DFB>A|G(F/G/)EA|FD3||
w: Now ga-ther round my lov-ing friends, and let us praise the hol-ly, There's no tree grows in the wood That is so *bright and jol-ly. Fol-di-rol-di-ri-do, Fol-di-rid-dle-ri, O fol-di-rol-di-ri-do! There's no tree grows in the wood that is so *bright and jol-ly

From "Singing Together Autumn 1971"
"Singing together: A series of broadcasts provided by the BBC
for the Schools Broadcasting Council for the United Kingdom"

NP


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 11:04 AM

Thanks, Nigel.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: JohnB
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 12:00 PM

Not 100% sure but their version is probably/possibly based on Carol#71 in the "Worral Blue Book".
It is certainly the right tune which you are looking for as opposed to the others I have checked out. #68 is the "wrong" tune as variously provided above.
I would scan it for you but my scanner became obsolete thanks to Windows 7.
The book is available from The Worrall Male Voice Choir and is excellent value for money, it contains I think 94 carol arrangements in four part harmony. They even post it to Canada, although it gets a bit pricey for four copies.
Two or three of that specific group of singers are members of Crucible and Hekety if you ever come across either of them, also Glorystrokes but we won't go there on this thread.
Good Luck JohnB.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Helen
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 01:06 PM

THanks JohnB. A lead at last on Pip's original question!

I was thinking the version Pip is looking for is similar in it's close harmonies but different in some ways from Welsh choir arrangements.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 05:36 PM

The version Pip's looking for can be found by following the link in the first post.

Pip, Joe hasn't posted my arrangement yet. Don't be discouraged. He could be on vacation or something. I'm confidant it will show up pretty soon.

Do you want to do the song with a choir or at school Just curious.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 06:16 PM

It's for my 52 Folk Songs project - I want to record myself singing in two or preferably three-part harmony.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: JohnB
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 12:07 AM

Sorry GUEST,leeneia,the original link as provided by the originator Pip is to a single melody line, not to a multi voiced part as per his request.
Or why would he ask a question and give the answer in the same posting.
JohnB.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 01:43 AM

I'm sorry. I was goofing off all day, and I just plain forgot. Nice MIDI, leeneia.


Click to play (joeweb)


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 11:01 AM

There you go, Pip. Three parts (sometimes four, when the bass goes really low), a drum part and a recorder doubling on the melody. Do you have MIDI software?

I abjure all copyright to this arrangement.

I'm proud to be part of the 52 folksongs project.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 11:31 AM

Thanks, leeneia. I mainly work in abc these days. I've run your file through midi2abc with slightly dubious results - I've ended up with a melody, two bass parts (one of which is probably the drum) and one part which is actually two parts combined, mostly in thirds.

What did you generate the midi from?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 11:43 AM

I took the melody from the version you linked in your first post, then I wrote the rest using Noteworthy Composer.

The parts in thirds are the soprano and the alto. One bass part is the drum (melodic tom) and one bass part is for basses and tenors. T & B mostly sing the same thing, but when the part gets quite low, there is a middle note to accommodate the tenors.   

You say you 'mainly' work in abc. But do you have MIDI software anywhere, or does a friend have it? If you save the MIDI above, the software will display and print all the lines for you. Then you can delete the staves which were just for fun, the recorder and the drum.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 11:57 AM

OK, I've got it open in Noteworthy. The problem I've got now is that the soprano & the alto are on the same stave - it would be really useful just to have one line on each stave. But I can get round it. Many thanks!


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: JohnB
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 07:14 PM

Pip Radish, check your PM, I have a copy for you.
JohnB.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Helen
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 04:04 PM

Hi again,

I was listening to The Poozies CD called Infinite Blue, and noticed the lovely harmonies on the chorus of Sorrows Away, by the Poozies

Listen to the track sample. Unfortunately, the sample is short and the chorus bits are only at the start and finish of the sample. The type of harmony is possibly done in much the same technique as Jon Boden's Holly & the Ivy.

The CD is brilliant in all respects, in my opinion, especially as my two favourite singers/musicians are in the group, i.e Patsy Sedden & Mary McMaster, being the Scottish harp duo Sileas.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 12:09 PM

hi


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 04:20 PM

Thanks, all - especially leeneia and JohnB. Here's the fruit of my labours:

The Holly and the Ivy

But I'm rather more pleased with this:


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 06:25 PM

Very nice, Pip! Congratulations!


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 06:48 PM

Thanks!

Just realised my second link got swallowed. What I'm rather more pleased with is this:

The Boar's Head Carol


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Holly and the Ivy IN PARTS
From: Artful Codger
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 02:53 AM

There's a clip on YouTube of singers at the Herga Folk Club in Pinna singing this version; they're reading it from music, so perhaps you could contact them, as well. The clip is mistitled "The Boar's Head Carol"--it's actually "The Holly and the Ivy".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SU8xpgL9Dc

Listening to the Boden recording, it sounds to me like they may be guided by a written arrangement, but they've sung it enough that they now just improvise around their parts. So they basically sing the same lines, but not rigidly.


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