Lyr/Tune Add: Dark Eyes / Ochi Chornya

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: Dark Eyes / Ochee Chornya
From: Genie
Date: 22 Mar 07 - 04:52 AM

I'd love to hear Stan Freberg's (sp?) send-up. I'm sure it's indeed magnificent!

Thread closed temporarily because it's been a target for a heavy barrage of Spam. If you have something to add to the discussion, contact me and I'll reopen it.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: Dark Eyes / Ochee Chornya
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 04:03 PM

please note dates of earlier posts.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: Dark Eyes / Ochee Chornya
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 03:21 AM

Never been able to take the song seriously since Stan Freeberg's magnificent send-up.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: Dark Eyes / Ochee Chornya
From: lennice
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 08:52 PM

Amazing job, Masato!

re translations: the closest translation posted here is KennyB's, English Lyrics by Bernice Manoloff(1935). The one given by Masato is lovely. Translating a work of art (as opposed to a manual on fixing a tractor) is really difficult (especially with rhyming), one has to take a lot of artistic license - it is a creative process, more like writing a song from scratch. All of them are missing the espressive mood of the original, which is more like "Oh those black eyes! Oh how I love them!" I'm not carping, I couldn't do it as well, just pointing out some of the flavor that got lost, which is darn near inevitable.

Subject: Mr. Masato Sakurai - Your Help Needed
From: GUEST,Alper Egmir / Istanbul Turkey
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 07:58 AM

Dear Mr. Masato Sakurai,

I came across with some info you inscribed in this forum back in 2003 while I was doing a research in the past days.

I am preparing an article on the Russian song Dark Eyes/Otchi Chornye and I have been stuck with some question marks -which I cannot overcome by myself- as to the historical background of this song.

May I hope for your attention and a few lines of yours to my e.mail addy [e-mail]

Your help will be highy appreciated. Thanks in advance

---

Message transferred from another thread.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: Dark Eyes / Ochee Chornya
From: GUEST,Ilya Romanos
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 06:15 PM

Hello to all,
I stumbled by chance on this thread which has my favorite Russian romance song, as I was looking for Louis Armstrong's version of "Ochi Chyornye" Dark Eyes. The link posted by Masato Sakurai in 2003 no longer gives access to this Armstrong version.   Can anyone direct me to the recording's file?
Thank you

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: Dark Eyes / Ochee Chornya
From: Artful Codger
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 04:54 PM

Er, here are the yo's I neglected to mark above:
V1.L1: чёрные
V2.L4: нём
V3.L3: Всё

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: Dark Eyes / Ochee Chornya
From: Artful Codger
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 10:22 PM

The tune to "Those were the days" is taken from the Russian gypsy song "Ekhali na troike s bubentsami" (We rode on a troika with bells), also known as "Dorogoy dlinnuyu" (By the long road).

Since Evgeniy Grebenka wrote the poem "Chornie ochi" in 1843, I suspect the story about the Cuban genesis of the tune is spurious.

Here is the original poem:

Чёрные Очи
Евгений Гребенка

Очи черные, очи страстные!
Очи жгучие и прекрасные!
Как люблю я вас! Как боюсь я вас!
Знать, увидел вас я в недобрый час!

Ох, недаром вы глубины темней!
Вижу траур в вас по душе моей,
Вижу пламя в вас я победное:
Сожжено на нем сердце бедное.

Но не грустен я, не печален я,
Утешительна мне судьба моя:
Все, что лучшего в жизни бог дал нам,
В жертву отдал я огневым глазам!

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: Dark Eyes / Ochee Chornya
From:
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 08:25 PM

The song was written by a Cuban composer (Signo Garay) many years ago in a theatre in Cuba, for Ursula his girl friend. However, a group of Italian and Russian singers heard it and liked the tune. When these girls went back to Russia, they only knew the tune not the lyrics. Apparently some Russian composer wrote the lyrics in Russian and received world wide credit for the song calling it Ochee Chornya. The Cuban author never claimed any credit since he was not recognized outside his native country and Russia later became the protector of Cuba, assisting the Cuban government (Castro regime) in many ways during the cold war years. The video "The Roots of Rhythm" by Harry Belafonte has a small clip where the real author is interviewed in Cuba and he explains what actually happened with his song, and how Russia takes the credit and why he really does not mind the error. All of this was recorded before his death. I really don't care what anyone says. The Russians have taken so much from everyone and copied from other people claiming everything to be their own, that one song from the small Island of Cuba does not matter much!

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: Dark Eyes / Ochee Chornya
From: autolycus
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 12:39 PM

Professor Tom Burman,"Customarily taken to be the very quintessence of Old Russian romanticism,'Dark Eyes' was actually written by Florian Hofmann,a 'Russianized German',in the words of Nicolas Slonimsky. And it was not originally a song.....but a piece for violin and piano entitled 'Valse Hommage', about as Russian as the Marseillaise."

From Burnam's The Dictionary of Misinformation. That doesn't mean it provides the reader with loads of misinformation only, but also the corrections.

Nicolas Slonimsky is a foremost chronicler of music.

In sum, the above adds that the composer was German, and his pice was for violin and piano.

At a time when there was no radio or disc player, if people wanted to hear music, they played it, so there was a vast market for arranging music for every conceivable combo of instruments. And in pre-coptright days, anything found to give the population a buzz was seized on and done to death any which way. So pieces like Dark Eyes turned up everywhere. The Whiffenpoof Song, for example, has an equally intriguing history.

Ivor

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: Dark Eyes / Ochee Chornya
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 02:58 AM

Try "Nostalgie" as recorded by Julio Iglesias. Lyrics are French, and the tune is the same.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: Dark Eyes / Ochee Chornya
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 03:44 AM

Have been searching for some lyrics for this tune - But the English versions do not seem to fit the tune so well.. Does anyone know of some lyrics in French?

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: Dark Eyes / Ochee Chornya
From: GUEST,Cy
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 02:25 PM

There is a Jazz singer named Sophie Milman that sings a beautiful version of Ochi Chernye. She grew up in Russia and this is the only russian traditional tune she sings on her self titled CD.

Check it out if you want to hear a modern version.
http://www.linusentertainment.com/artists/milman/milman.shtml

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: Dark Eyes / Ochee Chornya
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 18 Dec 04 - 08:30 AM

I can't say how pleased I am thatMasato was kind enough to post the transliteration and links to various recordings of the song.

My father used to love singing Ochi Chernye but never remembered the entire thing. By the time I hit twenty five, I was ready to hear more than just the first verse and started occasionally searching for the lyrics. That was over ten years ago.

This month marks the first anniversary of his death and it has been quite nice to remember him as I listen to the songs he (partly) sang.

Thanks you.

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 04:31 PM

The tune can be done as a fast waltz, a fast two/four (or cut time) um-chunk
Hopak-like tune (ala Those Were the Days) or can be done rubato...out of rhythm with a pulsating balalaika-like-a background. It has a Russian Gypsy feel. It usually starts with the Rubato section, goes to the Waltz and then to the Fast Part with Gypsy feel (um-chunk um-chunk).

Frank

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 04:08 PM

That MIDI John linked to comes from a wonderful Website, Doc Wilson's Turn-of-the-Century Stuff Page.
Thanks, John.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Lyr Add: RUSSIAN LULLABY (Irving Berlin)
From: GUEST,John in Brisbane
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 07:53 AM

I came across another song of quasi Russian backgroung with a liberal dressing of ragtime from the pen of Irving Berlin. The tune can be found at THIS LOCATION :


RUSSIAN LULLABY
by Irving Berlin
Copyright © 1927 by Irving Berlin

Where the dream-y Vol-ga flows, there's a lone-ly Russ-ian Rose,
Gaz-ing ten-der-ly down up-on her knee,
Where a bab-y's big brown eyes glis-ten, listen,
Ev-'ry night you'll hear her croon a Russ-ian lul-la-by,
Just a lit-tle plain-tive tune, when ba-by starts to cry,
Rock-a-bye my ba-by,
Some-where there may be a land that's free for you and me
and a Russ-ian lul-la-by.

Regards, John

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:08 AM

50 years ago and more, Dark Eyes was SO well known. I once had a conversation with a chap who had played in dance bands/small groups in the pre-rock music age, and he told me that Dark Eyes eventually got played to death, and that any requests for it would be received with a p*** off glare!

Subject: Lyr Add: DARK EYES (Eng. lyr. by Bernice Manoloff)
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 07:53 PM

Alternative words published by Calumet Music Co Chicago

Dark Eyes
English Lyrics by Bernice Manoloff(1935)

Eyes so dark and dear,
Eyes of love and fear,
Beautiful and true ,
I'm in love with you,
Gleaming eyes of love,
As the stars above,
Yop cap-ture my heart,
May we never part,

Your bright eyes so bright ,
Bring cheer to my heart,
How hap-py I feel,
When I see you my dear,
The smile in your eyes,
Turns gray to blue skies,
I wish you were mine,
Sweetheart you're so divine,

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 01:59 AM

I got an e-mail from Dale Rose. He says the tune was played several times on the music boxes which are a key part of the plot in Ernst Lubitsch's 1940 film The Shop Around The Corner with Margaret Sullavan and James Stewart.
I've added a 1999 MIDI from John in Brisbane. You'll find two other MIDI files here (click). The second one is really cool. I'm still not convinced we've come across the source of this song that's so familiar to me. I thnink maybe it was the Les Paul recording that first struck me.
I hadn't noticed that the song is on a CD by some friends of mine, Harmonious Wail. I met the group's leader/mandolin player when he was my brother's classmate in kindergarten.

-Joe Offer-

---

Click to play

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 09:39 AM

It's five years since I first contributed this tune and I have some doubts which have gnawed away at me ever since.

This is actually a two part tune (at least) with the B part the most commonly heard. I have a nagging feeling that the first two verses MAY relate to the A part of the tune. It may take me another five to figure this out, so if anyone else has futher clues it'd be good to hear.

Regards, John

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: Catarina
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 10:33 AM

Nigel: Thanks! I'll never cease to be amazed by the things you people at Mudcat know...! That's why I keep coming back... Thanks again!

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: AKS
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 08:51 AM

Case may be rested, thank you plenty, Masato!

AKS

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 12:48 PM

Catarina: Try Here

Nigel

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: Catarina
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 09:49 AM

Bob Dylan has a song called DARK EYES, that I've only heard in a judy Collins CD(Judy sings Dylan). It has nothing to do with the lyrics above, and begins with "The gentlemen are talking and the midnight moon is on the river side...". Does anyone know where I can get the words to that song?

Subject: Lyr Add: OCHI CHERNYE / DARK EYES
From: masato sakurai
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 09:21 AM

OCHI CHERNYE(from HERE
(cyganskaya pesnya/slova E.Grebenki)

Ochi chernye, ochi strastnye!
Ochi zhguchie i prekrasnye!
Kak lyublyu ya vas! Kak boyus' ya vas!
Znat' uvidel vas ya v nedobryi chas!

Oh nedarom vy glubiny temnei!
Vizhu traur v vas po dushe moei,
Vizhu plamya v vas ya pobednoe:
Sozhzheno na nem serdce bednoe.

No ne grusten ya, ne pechalen ya
Uteshitel'na mne sud'ba moya:
Vse, chto luchshego v zhizni bog dal nam,
V zhertvu otdal ya ognennym glazam.

Ne vstrechal by vas, ne stradal by tak,
Vek svoi prozhil by pripevayuchi.
Vy sgubili menya, ochi chernye,
Unesli navek moe schastie.

Bud' tot proklyat chas, kogda vstretil vas,
Ochi chernye, nepokornye!
Ne vidal by vas, ne stradal by tak,
Ya by prozhil zhizn' pripevayuchi.

Chasto snitsya mne v polunochnom sne
I mereshitsya schast'e blizkoe,
A prosnulsya ya - noch' krugom temna,
I zdes' nekomu pozhalet' menya.

      DARK EYES(from HERE)
(English Words by Jay Arnold)

Two dark dreamy eyes,
Dark as midnight skies,
Full of smoldering fire,
Full of warm desire.

Let me sing to you,
Let me bring to you
All the ecstasy
That our love could be.

Dark Eyes flashing by
While I sit and sigh,
Longing for a glance,
As you lightly dance
To the music gay,
While I hope and pray
That your eyes divine
Soon will gaze in mine!

When the moon is low
When soft breezes blow,
I will hold you tight
In the hush of night;
We will find our love,
While the stars above
Will be shining in your Dark Eyes.

MIDI for "Dark Eyes" based on guitar duet version by David Moreno (CLICK HERE).

"Dark Eyes" - Tab (CLICK HERE).

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: masato sakurai
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 11:21 PM

M. Ted, it appears to be a MIDI (shown as such, though), but actually it isn't.

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 11:21 AM

Also at the Shaiapin link above, a great version of "There were days"(those were the days) and a great version of "Chrysanthymums"--As always, Masato, thanks for the links!

Oh, all I got at the Louis Armstrong links were MIDI's, and they wouldn't play--

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: masato sakurai
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 10:43 AM

Thanks, John.

Found "Ryska valsen ur Hommage-valse" av Florian Herman HERE (score & midi).
The composer's name is written Herman (with one n), but Hermnann (with two n's) HERE. The original seems to have been a work for the piano.

~Masato

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From:
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 10:00 AM

Masato

Once again I have to hand you the "Searcher in Chief" award.
I don't know how you do it but thanks.

John

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: masato sakurai
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 07:24 AM

I was listening to Louis Armstrong's "Dark Eyes" many years ago too. He seems to have improvised lyrics. His recording is HERE [wav file; 07:21].

The original poem (whose title seems to have been "Chernye Ochi") was written by Evgenii Grebenka (1812-48) in 1843 (Click here for romanized text; click here for Cyrillic text).

According to James J. Fuld (The Book of World-Famous Music, 4th ed., pp. 417-418), the first known printing of "Otchi Tchorniya" as a song was shortly after March 7, 1884, though no copy of it has been found (it was republished before 1897 by A. Gutheil, Moscow). The reprint is in Gutheil's Favorite Songs of Moscow Gypsies (in Russian), with this note: "a Gypsy Romance to the melody of the 'Hommage-Valse' by Hermann."

Transliterated titles I have found include "Ochi Chernye"; "Ochi Chornia"; "Otchi Tchorniya"; "Otchi Tchornie"; "Otchi Tchornia"; "Otchi Chornia"; "Ochie Chornie"; and "Ochy Chornia". Feodor Shaliapin populairzed this song (listen to him HERE). The Russian Red Army Choir version is HERE [zipped wav file] and HERE [lyrics]. Vladimir Vysotsky's version of "Ochi Chernye (Narodnaya)" [RealSlideshow] is interesting (Click here).

~Masato

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: toadfrog
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 09:42 PM

I think "Dark Eyes" is a familiar tune just as "Dark Eyes." I've known it from before I could walk, and I'm not even Russian.

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: Genie
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 09:39 PM

Mad Tom,

"Otchee Tchoryna" and "Those Were The Days" are definitely not the same tune, though they have a similar feel and use pretty much the same chords (except that the chord pattern to "Those Were The Days" is more complex).

This song, BTW, especially in Russian, is a favorite in the Jewish retirement homes where I do music programs.

Genie

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: michaelr
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 08:57 PM

Pedantry alert! I keep seeing this same misspelling...

It's "Eyes of Ecstasy".
It's not my ex, Stacy!

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: rich-joy
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 07:56 PM

Many moons ago, Louis Armstrong's singing of this song made it known for me - great chune!!

Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: GUEST,steve benbows protege
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 07:57 AM

guys, This one of the most famous gypsy tunes ever. Pick up any Django c.d, or anyone of that idiom and you will find "Dark Eyes" on it. It is a lovely melody that gives a bloody good springboard for improvisation. It is not that difficult a tune to learn the melody and the chords of. I have to say it is a well played tune with me, Benbow, Disley etc and well worth the effort of learning.
Good luck guys!
    Pete.

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 05:22 AM

Thread on Those Were The Days-History showing a Russian connection

Nigel

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: Mad Tom
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 05:11 AM

Hmm... That MIDI file sounds a lot like "Those Were The Days" as recorded by Mary Hopkins, sometimes in the late '60s, IIRC.

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: AKS
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 04:58 AM

Hello ev'ryone! In Saturday's feb/8 Helsingin Sanomat there was an article on copyright of Russian/Soviet songs. Interesting enough, they print - among other things - that "Dark Eyes" (Î÷è ÷¸ðíûå) is NOT Russian trad, but composed by a German called Florian Herman (source for this being Martin Tegen, a Swede). According to this site the Russian lyrics are by K.P.Grebenka. Next question, of course, would be: when did these persons live?

AKS

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Oct 99 - 01:22 PM

Hmmmm. I went to the menu at the top of my browser, chose "View," then "encoding," then "Cyrillic (Windows)." Voilà! Instant polyglot! I can actually see the Russian characters.
...but it's the TUNE I'm asking about...
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Oct 99 - 01:10 PM

No, Rita, it's the TUNE that is really familiar. I think we need to call in the Big Guns.
Hey, Dick Greenhaus!
You seem to have survived with a less-decrepit memory than the rest of us have - can you tie this tune to a familiar song?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: Ferrara
Date: 05 Oct 99 - 08:32 AM

We don't have Russian fonts installed, either. Wish we did. Joe, as far as I know, it's a Russian folk song. Title, "Dark Eyes," comes out phonetically as roughly "OTchi TCHORNya" in Russian.

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 04 Oct 99 - 07:18 PM

Joe, I believe that you are right about the fonts. I figured that anyone who could actually read the text would have the font installed. (My only experience with the Russian language was a couple of years ago. The lighting guys at a show I was singing at were keen to chat up the female Russian Army dancers. I checked out the phrases for "I love you", "You are beautiful" and sundry other so-called pick up lines).

Could you also please check out the German on the Der Wasserfall thread which I posted yesterday. In hindsight I should have given the title a different prefix. Regards, John

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Oct 99 - 03:26 PM

Oh, fer dumb. I shoulda thought of that. I'll bet it's just that we don't have Russian fonts installed on our computers, John.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: MMario
Date: 04 Oct 99 - 01:34 PM

a friend just checked this thread and for HER, the russian lyrics are readable. for me they are gobbledygook.

and yes, the tune is extremely familiar to me as well. But I don't know from where....

Subject: RE: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Oct 99 - 01:27 PM

Hmmm. Now, that's a tune I'm familiar with. Don't know if it's a theme in a classical piece, or what, but it's a very familiar tune. I'm guessing it was a song commonly recorded by big bands, but I don't really know. Can anybody tell us more?
John, are all those unusual characters the actual lyrics, or did Something go haywire with what you posted?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Tune Add: DARK EYES
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 03 Oct 99 - 09:38 PM

Here's the tune.

X:1
T:
M:3/4
Q:1/4=120
K:C
^D2E2F2|-FEE4|^D2E2F2|-FEE4|E2A2A2|-A^G^G4|
B2c2B2|-BAA4|A2c2c2|-cBF2F2|B2c2B2|-BAE4|
^D2E2F2|-FEE2E2|B2c2B2|-BAA7/2||

---

Click to play

To play or display ABC tunes, try concertina.net

Subject: LYR/TUNE ADD: Dark Eyes
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 03 Oct 99 - 08:29 PM

After a prompt from Joe I will add the tune for Those Were The Days. Here's another lovely (Gypsy/Klezmer) song - I will add the tune later in the day.

Dark Eyes / Ochee Chornya / ×åðíûå î÷è

Î÷è ÷åðíûå, î÷è ñòðàñòíûå !
Î÷è æãó÷èå è ïðåêðàñíûå !
Êàê ëþáëþ ÿ âàñ! Êàê áîþñü ÿ âàñ !
Çíàòü, óâèäåë âàñ ÿ â íåäîáðûé ÷àñ !

Îõ, íåäàðîì âû ãëóáèíû òåìíåé !
Âèæó òðàóð â âàñ ïî äóøå ìîåé,
Âèæó ïëàìÿ â âàñ ÿ ïîáåäíîå:
Ñîææåíî íà íåì ñåðäöå áåäíîå.

Íî íå ãðóñòåí ÿ, íå ïå÷àëåí ÿ,
Óòåøèòåëüíà ìíå ñóäüáà ìîÿ:
Âñå, ÷òî ëó÷øåãî â æèçíè áîã äàë íàì,
 æåðòâó îòäàë ÿ îãíåâûì ãëàçàì !

Eyes of ecstacy,
Always haunting me,
Always taunting me
With your mystery!
Tell me tenderly,
You belong to me
For eternity,
Dark eyes, talk to me!

Regards, John