BS: Jogging - boring?

Subject: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 01:49 PM

I love jogging - but lots of people find it boring! And, that interests me.
Now, joggers usually reply to the "boring" claims by saying that if a person can't spend 30mins in their own company, without being bored, then that reflects poorly on them.
For example, I often walk into town, which takes about 30mins; now, I would very surprised if somebody I bumped into in town said to me, "Walked into town! Weren't you bored put of your mind?" But I wouldn't be at all surprised if that same person said, " You went jogging for 30mins, didn't you find that mind numbingly boring?"
What do we think?

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 01:52 PM

Very few of the joggers I see, are wearing a smile, while indulging in their pastime.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 01:57 PM

The problem with jogging is the physical effect on the knees particularly on pavement.
I prefer walking fast and I use it for meditation and relaxation. I've known too many people who are joggers who wind up with knee replacements or sore feet.

Fast walking does the same thing for at least 45 minutes to an hour a day.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 01:57 PM

And you can smile while doing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Mysha
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 02:00 PM

Hi,

1 People complaining, I expect don't jog long/intense enough, and therefore don't get the sporting rush.
2 Some people approach jogging purely as training, fully concentrating on training aspects, which do indeed not change in any essential way during the jog. Such a style is hardly different from stationary training, and yes, I find that rather boring, though some people find the rush itself sufficient.

Bye
                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 02:21 PM

I bet nearly everyone of those joggers who need knee replacements are in fact runners who very often will flog and push their bodies to the limit.
Jogging - at a sensible pace- for 25 mins three times a week will keep a person pretty fit without damaging knees etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 02:23 PM

I think it all depends on how and why you do it. Me, for example: I jog when there's someone chasing me (it used to be an irate father, but now it's usually just a wolf or puma).

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 02:49 PM

Don't jog, for heaven's sake. Run man! Run!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 03:12 PM

David Lee Roth said it all:

"I tried jogging, but the ice cubes kept jumping out of my glass."

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: CET
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 04:03 PM

When I started running (not jogging) I relied on my Ipod shuffle a lot to keep me going over the longer distances. As I have become used to running, I find I find I have less need of distraction and I rarely listen to music, even for long runs. I don't get bored because I am paying attention to what I am trying to accomplish.

Running isn't for everybody, and if what floats your boat is yoga or walking or pick up basketball, more power to you. It's also true that if you don't pay attention to your body, you do risk injuring yourself. However, the hordes of runners who are putting themselves into hip replacement surgery don't really exist. I run about 4 or 5 times a week, usually with other people, and what I see is not a lot of grim, suffering people but ordinary folks who are making a positive change in their lives. For the beginners it's harder, and genetics does make a difference in how fast and long you can run, but every runner is winning his or her own battles. If you want to see smiling, be there at the end of a road race and watch runners complete their first marathon or half marathon.

So, jogging boring? Possibly, but running isn't (at least not for me).

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: gnu
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 04:14 PM

"Jogging - at a sensible pace- for 25 mins three times a week will keep a person pretty fit without damaging knees etc."

Ah, I would disagree. Walking is far better over a lifetime. Running, less so. Jogging, far worse than walking and running. My opinion.

Me... I am having a good brisk sit at the moment and I shall have a walk later.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 04:24 PM

You have to walk really, really fast to gain the same health benefits as jogging.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 04:36 PM

To give an example of the walking -v-jogging health benefits.
Get on a treadmill and set the speed at 4 mph. Start walking and see what your heartbeat registers. Now start jogging, and watch your heartbeat start to increase dramatically.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: GUEST,\
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 07:32 PM

The traditional formula is:

220 minus age (ie 60 minus equals 160)

at 70 percent for training effect (70 plus 48 equals 118 beats per minute)

Climb the stairs - you will arrive before most elevators.
A great, passion filled orgasm will put both of you into the zone.
Mimic a 6-18 month y.o. EVERY movement for 20 minutes.

Find joy...in nature and count the birds, trees, clouds, for a 20 minute walk and compare today, to yesterday, to tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 07:46 PM

120 steps per minute, each 30 inches long = 4 miles per hour.

That's the US Army's marching beat on level ground (e.g., a street or parade ground), without pack but with weapon, canteen, etc.. This is usually done for 50 minutes followed by a 10 minute break.

In the past I've kept that pace for as much as 10 hours (with breaks for food). Our total distance covered was about 32 miles, as I remember.

Walk 10 minutes, jog or run 5, is also an interesting (and ground covering) exercise).

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: gnu
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 08:33 PM

Gramma always said, "Walk slow and drink lots of water."

Fact is, don't abuse your body. Walk. Yoga. Tai chi. Eat fruit and veggies. Live slow and live long.

Not that I have ever done that. I just wish I had now that I known better.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: jonm
Date: 05 Dec 11 - 03:28 AM

Smiling runners? Basically, few people smile generally; I think the proportion of runners is about the norm.

I "play" tunes I'm learning in my head while running, I often find I've come up with new fingerings, embellishments, accompaniments that way which I can just sit down and play once I have the instrument to hand.

I've also substantially written several reports and research papers in my head.

I don't use MP3s, I can maintain a steady rhythm for miles without (although I tend to think of all the tunes at about 120bpm as a result, at least at first).

Running, as opposed to jogging, tends to be more on the forefoot with knees bent - much better for avoiding impact injuries than jogging.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 05 Dec 11 - 08:46 AM

I would rather take brisk walks everyday than jog around and around with stretching exercises and squats in between fast walks are enough for me. Not only that if I cheated during jogging like I saw someone do near where I lived I would feel even worse about myself. The man was all kitted out head phones in but didn't even get as far as the corner street lamp and back. If I did jog it would have to be in the wee small hours.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: clueless don
Date: 05 Dec 11 - 09:06 AM

Back in the 1970s there was a medical columnist in a local newspaper (The Washington Star. Anyone remember the Washington Star?) His name was Dr. Steinchron. One of his recurring themes was that running/jogging (whichever you prefer to call it) is not good for you. One of the arguments he advanced was almost the same as John MacKenzie made on 04 Dec 11 - 01:52 PM, namely that one seldom sees a runner smile while running.

As an alternative to running, Dr. Steinchron recommended gardening.

If folks ask those of us who run why we do it or why we like it, I suspect we have a similar situation to that of the lady who reportedly asked Louis Armstrong "What is Jazz?" Mr. Armstrong is reported to have replied "If you have to ask, you'll never know." Same goes for running.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 05 Dec 11 - 09:08 AM

You might rather walk BUT for exercising the heart and lungs, jogging is of greater benefit!
Unless, you walk at a heck of a pace! And I don't mean fast - I mean very fast!

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Dec 11 - 11:58 AM

I'm told that swimming is a far better all round exercise.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Dec 11 - 02:18 PM

Swimming. Yes, but I have to pay for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 05 Dec 11 - 02:28 PM

For most people, swimming means doing endless lengths of a 25/50m pool.
Give me my forest trails. And woodland paths. And rolling sand dunes.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 05 Dec 11 - 03:16 PM

Canal paths. Never too far from a pub.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 05 Dec 11 - 04:26 PM

I should think I've run along every towpath in London and Birmingham, each of which have more canals than Venice. I'd never have got the ground covered at walking pace.

But since switching my beat to woodland trails I've downgraded to fast walking, which is safer for anyone visually challenged like me (I'm usually out at night). Also I have a vague theory, probably unfounded, that running might dislodge a stent that now keeps one of my arteries in service. My impression is that walking leaves me no less knackered than running.

The cardiovascular system will benefit from any exercise that leaves you sufficiently breathless to interfere noticeably with normal conversation, provided it is maintained for 20 minutes and repeated every day. I suspect that if Tunesmith gets any benefit from his jogging, it will be mostly psychological.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 09:03 AM

Well, of course, the exact cardio-vascular benefits of exercise were worked out 40 years ago by Dr.Kenneth Cooper.
In his book "Aerobics" he sets out how best to achieve fitness via exercise.
Oh BTW, Cooper is a jogger/runner!

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 09:25 AM

Swimming exercises the arms as well as the legs but what's to stop you exercising your arms as you run. I often do. Of course, swimming is very low impact which can't be said about running.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Amos
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 09:40 AM

Boredom is entriely a function of the individual's capacity to be interested. It is wholly in the eye of the beholder.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 11:13 AM

I do find jogging rather boring (as opposed to walking, which is great!). When you walk, you've got proper time to enjoy every bit of the scenery. Jogging seems too driven to me.

I have another solution, though, specially in bad weather. I work out on the ellyptical while listening to Mary Chapin Carpenter, and I don't get bored as long as her heavenly voice keeps on singing, and the rythm of the music keeps me moving.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 11:14 AM

Well, I don't think anyone would say that swimming up and down a 50/25m pool is as interesting or stimulating as running along a beautiful forest path!

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 11:45 AM

Waste of time arguing with joggers, walkers and vegetarians.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 01:39 PM

Yes, jogging is boring, if not downright painful. And so is every other form of physical exercise, except maybe sex. And even with sex, it is the orgasm that comes at the end that makes it all worthwhile, not the exercise leading up to it. If it weren't for orgasms, would anybody bother with sex?

Oh, I walk sometimes, but only because I know I need the exercise. I force myself. To be honest, I never really enjoy it. Even under the best of circumstances, I am never eager to repeat it.

When I was young I used to go to dances, but, to tell the truth, the only reason I did it was to meet girls. Hormones will make you do some pretty silly things. I'll bet there are a lot of people who gladly give up dancing forever once they have a mate they are satisfied with.

I didn't meet my wife at a dance, but I have tried dancing with her a few times. The last time I tried folk dancing, I hurt my feet so badly I limped for a week. I have always had flat feet. There is simply nothing there to cushion the shock of bouncing up and down. I expect I won't do that again.

I can tolerate some moderate yard work, such as raking leaves, but I only do that when my wife insists I help her. Anything that involves a lot of bending makes my back hurt.

As far as the "rush" people talk of—I have never experienced it. And I can't believe it's because I never tried hard enough. In high school, I was forced to run until I puked, and then run some more. (I think this was before "jogging" was invented.) My body was so full of lactic acid I was stinging all over. Even my tongue hurt. But I never felt any rush.

For me, exercise comes in only two varieties: tolerable and intolerable. It is never pleasurable.

I have often wondered whether there is some genetic reason why I am unable to feel any positive sensation as a result of exercise. Maybe it's something like colorblindness. Maybe the requisite nerve cells or chemicals, whatever they are, just aren't there for me. I wonder if anyone has ever attempted to study people like me, who get absolutely no pleasure from exercise.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 02:02 PM

I love exercising! Even at my grand old age!
I was in a gym changing room the other day and I chap comes in after working out.
"Thank God that's over" he said.
I can't relate to that frame of mind at all!

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 02:21 PM

As a keen botanist I'd miss an awful lot of interesting plants if I ran everywhere!

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 02:27 PM

My husband used to run for a full hour on a treadmill at a gym. He got terrible pains in his leg, and the doc. diagnosed shin splints (tiny cracks in the leg bones) AND phlebitis. As my husband has ricketts from malnutrition, jogging or running for long periods is very dodgy for him. The doc. said that jogging/running a lot wears out the joints and jolts the spine. Walking is better. I walk in the beautiful countryside, and it's never boring. The wildlife you see is phenomenal, and the lovely views lift your spirits. Also, it's free.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 03:53 PM

That sounds like a pleasant walk, but it's not going to exercise the heart and lungs in any meaningful way!
You've got to get your heart rate up- and over - 65% of its maximum before you start accruing real benefits.
If you don't finish your walk bathed in sweat, then you ain't doing it properly!

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: CET
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 07:35 PM

Tunesmith's basic point is well taken. Becoming fit does require an effort. However, he might scare people off from trying to get fit through walking. A walk doesn't have to be the moral equivalent of a run to do you good, and even people who couldn't imagne running a hundred yards could start a walking program. You don't have to be bathed in sweat every time you go out.

One thing that helps me not to get bored with running is aiming for a particular goal. I enter races, which leads me to train systematically for them. Of course as a recreational runner my goal is different from the goals of the competitive runners, but I am still trying to improve. I never understood why anyone would enter a race without being a competitive runner until I entered my first race two years ago.

Whenever I have gone out for a long slow run I have never found any problem enjoying the scenery.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 08:21 PM

If it weren't for orgasms, would anybody bother with sex?

Well me, for one. Since I had legionnaires a few years back, they are thin on the ground. When I explained this to a prospective partner, she said "Fuck the male orgasm!" That seemed a tad selfish at the time, but I am happy to report she was right.

Tunesmith, yoo don't have to finish in a sweat to gain benefit from a walk.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 02:41 AM

You will certainly gain health benefits from walking, but according to Dr Kenneth Cooper you won't be exercising your heart and lungs properly unless you raise your heart beat to over 65% of its maximum AND keep it there for 25mins or so.
To achieve that, you're going to have to get hot and sweaty.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: clueless don
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 08:29 AM

An acquaintance of mine once described running in this way:

I'm hurrying to catch a bus, but there's no bus!

Now that person shouldn't run!

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 09:51 AM

Hot, sweaty and with a racing heart? At my age, that would probably kill me!

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: GUEST,strad
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 10:32 AM

No-one has mentioned using walking poles as an exercise aid. I can work up a good sweat walking using these - to the point of having to stop towait for my breath to catch up. And I get sweaty, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 12:57 PM

I also think swimming is pretty favourite; you can't hurt yourself as the water supports your joints and muscles, you can certainly get breathless if you go at it hammer and tongs, and it's lovely! Once I'm in, I can relax, but I hate people seeing me in my swimming costume. (rather hippo-like I'm afraid) All this is IMO much better than thumping along doing jogging.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: GUEST,Manuel
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 03:48 PM

I am so sorry that GUEST Eliza is unaware of the sheer joy one such as I derives from, in her words, "thumping along doing jogging". By the way, Eliza, is "swimming costume" synonymous with the more familiar "swimsuit"?

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Greg B
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 07:31 PM

As a 14-month cardiac rehab veteran, I think I know something of what I speak. At the height of my cardiac crisis, I could just about get halfways across a parking-lot without chest pain. Post stent (which, by the way, will NOT be dislodged by exercise) I was good for about 3.2 miles per hour on the treadmill at 5 degrees of incline.

Now, my cardiac work-out goes thusly:

Treadmill 10 minutes at 15-degrees incline at 4.1-4.3 MPH, which gets me a heart rate of maybe 120 BPM. (at age 52).

Stair-mill (a reverse-escalator of sorts) for 12 minutes of variable intervals and total of 54 floors, or 1080 steps. Good for a heart rate of around 136-140.

Elliptical trainer interval cross-country course for 20 minutes. Similar to the above heart rate.

500 meters as fast as I can on the rower. Good for 120.

Now every second day, go lift weights. Two sets of twelve on between a half dozen and a dozen machines, with weighs set so I can't really complete the second set.

I'm not really into jogging. When I run, I prefer to run my heart rate up to a limit of about 152, then walk until it drops to 120, then run again, in intervals. But running on the road scares me--- to many chances to trip or put a foot wrong in a hole.

Walking is good, and it helps, but to really make forward progress, you (I'm sorry to say) have to work a lot harder.

Fridays, I do an aerobics class which I can only describe as "romper room." Circuit training with a group of very fit and strong self-motivated people, with lots of variety, laughs and silliness. It's a group that actually takes the assignments and makes them harder than the instructor prescribes, just because we can. Like grabbing dumbbells on what was supposed to be simple lunges and knee-bends.

After a while, it becomes a way of life, and it gets to be fun, seeing just what you can do today.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 01:24 PM

Manuel, I've always called it my swimming costume. Swimsuit does just as well. I might add, my first swimming costume was knitted for me by my mum, and when wet it came right down to my ankles, so heavy and sodden it was hard to keep afloat. I do know the joy of running, as I was in the Cross-Country Team for my school.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 06:14 PM

Was it Beyond Our Ken......?

Last Sunday was The Annual Nudists Point to Point.....I never miss it. I like to see 'em jogging round the track.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: GUEST,Manuel
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 07:16 PM

Eliza, how sweet of you to reply to my comment and question! I'll make sure to use this unfamiliar term in my everyday conversation here on the western edge of the Caribbean sometime soon. Enjoy the remainder of your day!

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 10:26 PM

As you said yourself Tunesmith, Cooper's advice is 40 years old. The science has moved on a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 10:23 PM

'course, not many people smile when they're swimming laps, or biking, or gardening, or doing most things people do alone. That old line is silly, a poor way to judge running/jogging.

I began running 10+ years ago. Longer distances got boring, and the ipod came along with me, and became a motivational habit.

After a major back injury, and the attendant months of re-learning movement, I am finally back running (slowly!) again. To pay attention and make sure my form is good, not adding to the problem, I ditched the tunes. I haven't missed it at all. Never bored, but I run outside, the air, the sun, the moon, the sounds... it's always different and beautiful.

To each his/her own. I'm grateful to have found something that keeps me (relatively) fit, (relatively) sane, and (but for the occasional shoes or race fee) free!

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 09:08 PM

Jogging? I'd rather watch cans rust.

Jim Dixon, old Maine saying, "The journey IS the destination. Getting there is half of the fun.In this case, the longer the trip the better.
If you want to race, buy a sports car.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 03:49 AM

Are you crazy!!!
Stuck in a fuel guzzling, anti-social, anti-environmental anti-a multitude of other things - vehicle OR, be gliding through forest paths, in a fantastic state mental relaxation, and with a terrific feeling of well being.
The choice is a no brainer!

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: kendall
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 06:36 AM

You nailed it.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: kendall
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 03:27 PM

There are better ways to get your heart rate up.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 04:18 PM

It's just come to me that to enjoy - really enjoy - jogging, you've got to work at it.
Think about this analogy: You're learning to play the guitar. At first you're fumbling around trying to make simple chord changes and often getting frustrated at your efforts.
But if you stick at it, a whole world of satisfying, rewarding enjoyment is waiting for you
Same with running. At first it is hard work. The muscles rebel. You feel a bit foolish.
But given time, you will really grow in to those running shoes. You will love the sense of well-being, and the quality time that you can spend with youself - just you and your thoughts.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: kendall
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 04:21 PM

I suffered a back injury in the service, and some things are not options for me. Jogging is one. Using an "Irish banjo"* is another.
*shovel.

Walking on a cement floor is murder.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 03:11 AM

But that's no reason to decry others' participation.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 08:35 AM

For me it would have to be in a place where there is lovely scenery and a pub at the end of it preferably in a nice setting.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: kendall
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 11:48 AM

Decry other's participation? I don't remember doing that.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: GUEST,Manuel
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 11:35 AM

GUEST Patsy, the jogging, the lovely scenery and the pub would be even greater fun if you had me as your inspiring jogging companion!

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Charmion
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 09:56 PM

Not boring but painful -- i have asthma, and the lungs don't like to work that hard, Walking does the job nicely, thank you, and in an Ottawa summer, one can get plenty sweaty just strolling. Winter is a bit of an issue because the footing is so bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 10:52 PM

Charmion, I got myself a pair of these things which allow me to walk on even the smoothest ice. They are pricey compared to what's readily available in cheaper stores, but those ones fell apart during the 3rd use. Plus, I learned in the first 10 minutes that slip-on cleats also slip off. My Icers are now headed into their 3rd winter of daily use. I haven't needed the kit of replacement cleats yet, maybe this winter. I have needed to trim a few stray fibres from the straps. My winter boots are such a different sized footprint than my wellies that I bought a 2nd smaller pair to fit them, for use on spring days when there is still plenty of ice & snow on the trails yet the air is too warm for true-winter boots.

My Icers get tossed into my car around Hallowe'en (though that was kind of early with this year's weather!), so I always have them when I get to the dog park--it's just enough higher elevation and a couple of miles inland from Lake Ontario so that the weather is colder & snowier than home, so I'm never sure when I'll need to start using them.

With only the least bit of attention I can confidently walk on pure sheet ice even made super-slippery with melt water or friction. Even on slopes. Just TRY skidding with them on, they simply don't slip. Ahhh, I imagine it would feel smugly good to smile and tramp past people on all-fours trying to get back up a hill they were foolish enough to go down. However I stop and lend an arm, get them up one at a time (or sometimes they hitch their dog to assist against gravity). It's a thrill that even with my incredibly bad back I can get me AND them up the main hill on the trail no problem. Though it's even more amazing how many of those people have a pair of icers they left in their car.

Icers also help grip fresh snow, definitely it's easier walking with them than without. But they do add a bit of weight to the foot so, with my bad back, I shorten my walks for the first week of use to build up strength, and work back up to the usual time. Far cheaper than gym membership and I actually use them daily.

Subject: RE: BS: Jogging - boring?
From: Bert
Date: 18 Dec 11 - 09:19 PM

Way back when I was in school, long before the jogging craze, our sports master used to get us "Trotting" as he called it.

Kinda like jogging but more relaxed, you let your arms hang by your sides and keep your weight more on the balls of your feet.

It gives you almost the same exercise advantages without putting stress on your leg bones.