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Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?

wilbyhillbilly 09 Dec 11 - 01:29 PM
Jack Campin 09 Dec 11 - 01:42 PM
GUEST,Jon 09 Dec 11 - 01:43 PM
wilbyhillbilly 09 Dec 11 - 02:19 PM
Joe Offer 09 Dec 11 - 02:33 PM
GUEST,Jon 09 Dec 11 - 02:43 PM
wilbyhillbilly 09 Dec 11 - 02:47 PM
wilbyhillbilly 09 Dec 11 - 02:50 PM
GUEST,Jon 09 Dec 11 - 03:08 PM
wilbyhillbilly 09 Dec 11 - 03:59 PM
GUEST,Jon 09 Dec 11 - 04:16 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Dec 11 - 04:19 PM
wilbyhillbilly 09 Dec 11 - 05:03 PM
Jack Campin 09 Dec 11 - 05:52 PM
wilbyhillbilly 10 Dec 11 - 02:39 AM
Richard Bridge 10 Dec 11 - 03:40 AM
wilbyhillbilly 10 Dec 11 - 06:42 AM
JohnInKansas 10 Dec 11 - 07:38 AM
GUEST,Jon 10 Dec 11 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,Jon 10 Dec 11 - 08:21 AM
wilbyhillbilly 10 Dec 11 - 10:40 AM
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Subject: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 01:29 PM

I have been trying to sort this for a couple of days now, and fast getting nowhere.

When we had to move and downsize, I took the hard drive out of my old pc thinking I could maybe one day use it as an external drive on my current Dell desktop.

I finally got round to purchasing a USB2.0 to IDE&SATA cable with all the fittings which looked just the job. So easy, it said, with full instructions. Got it all hooked up and plugged into my desktop via usb, where it was supposed to show as an extra drive, it's not visible.

One of the things that is not clear in the "instructions" is that it says "Please make sure your HDD has been set in "Master" position". I have no idea what this means and I cannot find anything such as a switch or slot on the drive that might be a reset thingy, so maybe this is the problem, can anyone please assist in simple non-tech language and help to put me out of my misery.

The drive is a western digital IDE 3.5".

The 40 pin plug that goes in the end of the disc has a red led thatis marked usb and is lit up when plugged into the desktop, it also has a green led which says ide/busy but that does not light up. I checked the power lead and that's ok and working.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 01:42 PM

There will be a small bunch of pins on the back of the drive with a plastic jumper connecting two of them - usually three positions, "Master", "Slave" and "Cable Select". Move the jumper to connect a different two. (On a Mac, either "Master" or Cable Select" will work; your machine may be fussier).


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 01:43 PM

WD IDE jumper settings


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 02:19 PM

Thanks people, Jack, I found the pins and switched to master, rebooted but still showing nothing.

Thanks John, brilliant diagrams, have now switched to slave to see if that makes a difference.

Don't hold out much hope though.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 02:33 PM

I'm wondering if the primary hard drive should be set as "master" and the external one as "slave." That would seem to make more sense.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 02:43 PM

I wouldn't have though so Joe. I've not ome accross these but by my way of thinking, that drive is the only drive on that IDE bus so I'd say set as stand alone or master.

Anyway, does the drive spin with the power connected to it?

Is there a CD with this? Might some driver installation be required.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 02:47 PM

Well I've now tried "slave" and that's not showing either.

I'm fast becoming disillusioned and ready to sling the whole lot!

Plus I keep getting a 503 message when I try to submit these messages, saying server placed offline by operator, please try later.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 02:50 PM

The drive is not spinning with the power connected, and the manual says no driver needed for Win ME/2000/XP. I'm on XP.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 03:08 PM

I'm getting the 503 too. Maybe Mudcat's a bit overloaded.

---
Can you try a different drive or a different power supply to that drive?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 03:59 PM

I reckon I'll have to just dump the drive, I tested the power plug and it's live at the drive end, plus my other external drive works fine.

Am I supposed to hear the disc spinning with the power plugged in? if so there is definitely something wrong because I don't hear a thing.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 04:16 PM

I'd have thought so, that or perhaps feel a little bit of vibration.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 04:19 PM

Take the jumper(s) off altogether for a default configuration as one last attempt. Chances are if it ain't spinning - It's dead but there could be a conflict between the data transfer speeds of the motherboard and disk. Have you checked if it spins up with and without the IDE cable attached? Oh - One other check - The IDE pins are easy to bend - Make sure you haven't bent one or two and shorted something out.

At the end of teh day, unless there is something tyou realy need on that disk though, IDE just is not worth taking time over any more.

Good luck

DtG


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 05:03 PM

Bingo!! Don't know what happened but I took the IDE cable off as you suggested Dave, and it started spinning. I plugged the cable back in and the message came up on screen "new hardware detected etc".

It's now showing as J drive, so I'll go and have a look and see if I can get anything.

Thanks so much everyone, Mudcat to the rescue again!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 05:52 PM

Is the power from the enclosure's power supply connected to the drive?

If the drive is from a desktop it will probably need more power than a USB-powered enclosure can provide. Is the enclosure mains-powered?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 02:39 AM

It has a separate direct power supply to the drive. I haven't got it in an enclosure yet as I wanted to see if it works first.

Now I'll try and find a case for it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 03:40 AM

For tidiness you can probably put a card in your new SATA-only motherboard which will run a number of IDE drives, and they come AFAIK in two bus speeds - 100 and 133 - and then you can mount the drive internally.

You used also to be able to get quite cheaply (and probably still can on ebay) hard drive enclosures the run the IDE drive as a network drive.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 06:42 AM

Thanks Richard but I dare not try accessing the motherboard, it's a bit beyond my expertise I think.

Best try to find an enclosure, I'll try Ebay.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 07:38 AM

I haven't seen USB to SAT/IDE cables separate from the external enclosures, although I won't dispute that they might exist.

I've used several external USB enclosures, with a couple that took an IDE drive only, one that took an SAT only, and about three that will take either kind of drive, using one or the other set of connections inside.

If you put it in one of the typical boxes (or if your cable does the same thing) the hard drive card/connection in the computer doesn't see the hard drive. The USB connection feeds directly through the USB port on the computer, but is named like a hard drive, even though the computer doesn't really see it like one.

Since the hard drive in the external box (or hooked to the cable) is "primary" to the USB port it hooks to, the usual setting for the drive is as primary, not as slave.

Most of the External USB cases use a wall wart (plugged into AC power) and don't take their power from the USB port they're connected to, so with those cases there shouldn't be a problem with having enough poop to spin any drive you can put int them. Trying to take enough power from a USB port might be problematical.

Without recommending a seller, since Best Buy is the only one in my town, you might want to take a look at Enclosures generally, or the closest equivalent to a couple I have. (Ones I've used were "Monster" label, from CompUSA that I believe were marketed from Canada, but CompUSA left town, so Best Buy is the only place I've got to look at stuff now. (Sympathy acknowledged.)

All the cases I've looked at have an external transformer (wall wart) that plugs into AC power to spin the drive so getting enough poop to run any drive shouldn't be a problem. Trying to pull enough power out of a USB port alone could be a problem(????) but I haven't really looked at the spin moter draw on any typical ones.

The master and slave jumper settings on the hard drive are so that the IDE or SAT port can tell which drive it's talking to. If the HD is in a USB box, the USB port takes care of the identity, and so as far as I've seen any HD in a USB box, or otherwise going through a USB port, should be set to the master jumper position. There could be exceptions, but I haven't seen any. Connecting to a HD via USB is more like connecting to a HD on another computer via a LAN than to plugging into a HD port in the computer. (A rather crude simile, but it might help how you think about the situation???)

I've pretty much given up on the USB cases for any general use, since the rather rapid expansion in HD space needed means that any HD old enough to come out of something is probably too small to be very helpful as an auxiliary (external or otherwise) drive, but having a case you can test out a drive with, or that you can hook up to get stuff off of one is pretty handy, so I keep a couple of the AT/SAT type handy. For testing purposes, you don't have to close the case, but you can be pretty sure the front end will take care of the signals and power.

As an almost incidental, I've seen some indication that the external USB HD cases I've used are a little lacking in heat dissipation, so an internal HD stuffed in one may have a slightly shorter life than you could expect with the same drive inside a computer - assuming the computer case has fair air circulation inside. The difference I've seen isn't something I can confirm; but evidence has been enough to raise a suspicion in my own pitiful little brain.

(I replaced an internal HD that's been running external in a USB box a few days ago, possibly due to overheating(?) in the box, with a "real portable USB external drive," with the result that Western Digital is on my piss list this week, but that's another story.)

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 08:20 AM

I could well be wrong John but I imagine the USB thingy a bit differently. The way I picture it, it could be broken down into 3 components:

IDE (or SATA) interface for the hard disk(s in some cases?)
IDE to USB (bulk storage device?) converter.
USB interface for the computer.

By this reasoning, while there may be various names that might even amount to the same settings, ie. default, master, stand alone, that may work, I'd not expect the drive to work as a slave. I've no idea whether any would work in a cable select mode.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 08:21 AM

I'd not expect the drive to work as a slave

(with a unit for one drive that is)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Help! IDE HDD conversion?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 10:40 AM

This is a Western Digital WD200 and it has ended up on slave, has separate power cable and 40 pin plug to usb. At the moment it is running without a case and is quite warm.

The cable details, for interest, are

USB2.0 to IDE & SATA Cable

Synchronously support 2 IDE Hard Drive

Support high speed (480Mbps), Full-speed (12Mbps)
and Low-speed (1.5Mbps)

Support 2.5"/3.5" IDE and Serial ATA Hard Disk

Support both 2.5" and 3.5" IDE Hard Drive Disk at a time

I copied the above off the cable box so please don't ask any questions 'cos I haven't got a clue what it all means, all I know is that it's working :-)


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