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Folk awards FoI request denied

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GUEST,Spleen Cringe 26 Jan 12 - 05:39 AM
Stilly River Sage 25 Jan 12 - 07:09 PM
EmmaHartley 25 Jan 12 - 06:28 PM
Big Al Whittle 19 Dec 11 - 09:10 PM
Big Al Whittle 18 Dec 11 - 09:11 PM
Big Al Whittle 18 Dec 11 - 04:29 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 18 Dec 11 - 03:22 PM
Big Al Whittle 18 Dec 11 - 02:40 PM
The Sandman 17 Dec 11 - 06:10 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 17 Dec 11 - 05:59 PM
Silas 17 Dec 11 - 04:21 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 16 Dec 11 - 03:36 PM
Big Al Whittle 16 Dec 11 - 02:43 PM
Paul Davenport 16 Dec 11 - 02:15 PM
GUEST,John Bullshite 16 Dec 11 - 01:36 PM
GUEST,999 16 Dec 11 - 01:27 PM
Les in Chorlton 16 Dec 11 - 01:24 PM
GUEST,John Bullshite 16 Dec 11 - 10:11 AM
GUEST,Spleen Cringe 16 Dec 11 - 09:52 AM
Nigel Parsons 16 Dec 11 - 07:27 AM
GUEST, Knit-Picker 16 Dec 11 - 07:18 AM
Big Al Whittle 16 Dec 11 - 07:13 AM
glueman 16 Dec 11 - 05:31 AM
Dave Hanson 16 Dec 11 - 02:55 AM
Spleen Cringe 15 Dec 11 - 07:08 PM
the lemonade lady 15 Dec 11 - 06:41 PM
the lemonade lady 15 Dec 11 - 06:33 PM
The Sandman 15 Dec 11 - 11:39 AM
Nigel Parsons 15 Dec 11 - 11:02 AM
The Sandman 15 Dec 11 - 10:53 AM
Vic Smith 15 Dec 11 - 09:16 AM
GUEST,Seedy Guy 15 Dec 11 - 09:01 AM
The Sandman 15 Dec 11 - 08:35 AM
GUEST,Folknacious 15 Dec 11 - 08:35 AM
Howard Jones 15 Dec 11 - 08:05 AM
Vic Smith 15 Dec 11 - 06:48 AM
The Sandman 15 Dec 11 - 06:26 AM
Spleen Cringe 14 Dec 11 - 06:30 PM
GUEST,999 14 Dec 11 - 04:22 PM
The Sandman 14 Dec 11 - 04:22 PM
GUEST,Jon 14 Dec 11 - 04:22 PM
Vic Smith 14 Dec 11 - 03:36 PM
The Sandman 14 Dec 11 - 03:24 PM
GUEST,Folknacious 14 Dec 11 - 03:18 PM
The Sandman 14 Dec 11 - 02:55 PM
Howard Jones 14 Dec 11 - 02:20 PM
GUEST,999 14 Dec 11 - 02:13 PM
Les in Chorlton 14 Dec 11 - 01:37 PM
The Sandman 14 Dec 11 - 01:04 PM
Silas 14 Dec 11 - 12:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request gets Orwellian
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 05:39 AM

Would that be the "furore" that was started by a journalist hoping to stir up a bit of controversy to get people to visit her blog? Just askin'...


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request gets Orwellian
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 07:09 PM

Emma, why don't you post your new blog entry links to the original blog announcement instead of starting a new thread each time? You post one remark then never come back, so you might as well post it by adding on to the one place. It lends more continuity to your work, for one thing. Makes you less of a target, for another. IMHO.

SRS


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Subject: Folk awards FoI request gets Orwellian
From: EmmaHartley
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 06:28 PM

http://theglamourcave.blogspot.com/2012/01/freedom-of-information-act-redefines.html

Curiously UBC Media Group, which owns Smooth Operations, has lost more than 20 per cent off its share price since the furore about the folk awards blew up. No idea whether the two things are connected...


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 09:10 PM

These awards ....did you and Packie ever get one?


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Dec 11 - 09:11 PM

I don't actually want wild, more sort of panting with sexual desire....that's the effect I feel Clint should aim for.

I'm sure a sophisticated American lady, with a wild celtic streak knows all about that stuff.......

Merry Christmas, by the way!


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Dec 11 - 04:29 PM

no Bonnie, goats are randy.. I can do that as I am. I see Clint as sexually desirable,,,, you know the sort of thing.....essentially a babe magnet, but sort of unattainable and aloof.

Like Greta Garbo,   I vont to be alone......

You know how it drives you women wild.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 18 Dec 11 - 03:22 PM

Or maybe something musical, like Reel Goat (anagram for Alter Ego)?

Dunno about charming, but it's Celticky…





Well, that's what bodhrans are made out of, and they can accompany reels, and… and… y'know…


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Dec 11 - 02:40 PM

I wish I had an alias. An alter ego. I'd call him something sexy, but full of Celtic charm like .......Clint MacWhanger.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 06:10 PM

folknacious, what can one say about him?
he makes irrational comments, and he accuses a long established member of being an alias for someone else.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 05:59 PM

Silas, that doesn't explain why Folknacious should accuse a long-established member of being an alias for someone else.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Silas
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 04:21 AM

Well Peter K, I don't think it's the number of times you post that is important, its the number of posts you read that makes the difference.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 03:36 PM

The judges must be grateful that they are protected from lobbying. Most of them will be known to Alan Bearman of course, but I'm sure he doesn't lobby them at all.

Like Peregrina, a Mudcatter of two years' standing with 700-plus posts racked up, I quite like Emma's blog. Does that mean that I too am Emma, Folknacious?

Anyway, I hope Emma follows up, because there is no justification for the BBC playing its "journalism art or literature" card. And its claim that the judges are not performers is a straightforward lie.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 02:43 PM

no you're right Paul it doesn't mke sense. But this award thing has been upsetting folks for years.

I don't really see a solution. The whole folk thing - well some folk try and say its all about some traditional baloney - but in actual fact, its about British people expressing themselves with great individualism.

And you are never going to reconcile that level of individualism, with all the compromises and and marketing concerns of a music industry - probably the most competitive game in the world outside English League Football.

There may be confluences of interest - but they are always going to be very shallow tributaries of folk music in England.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 02:15 PM

I tried to read this thread from the start…it doesn't make sense.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: GUEST,John Bullshite
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:36 PM

I wasn't referring specifically to only that most recent deleted post.
Which incidentally I didn't write.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:27 PM

There was nowt funny about the deleted post. If indeed that is what passes for Brit humour these days your country is surely in trouble.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:24 PM

"British cultural humour, harmless trifling little jokes and ironic wordplays"

Very funny, yes very funny

L in C#


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: GUEST,John Bullshite
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 10:11 AM

yep some of the mudcat mods have gone delete power crazy again just recently.

They are particularly targeting British cultural humour, harmless trifling little jokes and ironic wordplays
that they just don't seem to understand..


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 09:52 AM

I should add that my post of 15 Dec 11 07:08pm above makes no sense at all now the one it was a response to has been removed. Just fer the rekkid. Not that it made a great deal of sense before.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 07:27 AM

... climate change denier?

That's a thickness of wool, right?

Or should that be "wooly-headed & thick"?


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: GUEST, Knit-Picker
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 07:18 AM

... climate change denier?

That's a thickness of wool, right?


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 07:13 AM

well I've only just understood what the thread is about - seems a pity to close it down.

Still not totally sure why you're so worried about it.

I may be getting it wrong - but it seems to me that some people think that folk on radio should reflect the clubs, whereas in actual fact - its sort of adjunct of the recording industry/ entertainment industry/ agents of artists who gig small theatres.

In actual fact GSS (I respect you a lot) I think we just have to render unto Caesar what is Caesars. Nowadays things aren't too bad - we have the internet. Its no use craving what isn't up for grabs. I know the BBC's charter makes all sorts of promises, but look how far off the mark they are in lots of ways - its bound to be very contolled by middle and upper class English people who think that culture is just something that posh folk know about.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: glueman
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 05:31 AM

Seventies prices for seventies people! Where do I sign?


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 02:55 AM

What climate change ?

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 07:08 PM

... climate change denier?


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:41 PM

Is this She


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:33 PM

Hear, hear... Who is Emma anyway?

Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Geoff the Duck - PM
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 06:40 AM

I sometimes wonder about Mudcat...

Every day Emma Hartley starts a new thread which consists of "Tabloid Headline - come and click on the Blicky to my blog...". We then hear no more from her on the thread.
In the meanwhile, a bunch of mudcat regulars (are caught in the net and hauled up on deck flapping about like wet fish) spend hours arguing about whatever irrelevance was on the blog.

Personally I think the original daily posts should just be deleted as spam.

Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 11:39 AM

100


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 11:02 AM

EmmaHartley has now provided just 1% (and only 2 lines) of the postings on this subject.
Maybe we should just let the thread die, as she seems uninterested!

100


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 10:53 AM

no Vic,
I have a right to refute idiotic statements, that insult the hard work many organisers do.
Folknacious has not backed up his silly comment with any kind of rational comment.
what the f### are seventies people, and which clubs are charging seventies prices, he is just talking nonsense, and which clubs are in seedy back rooms, it is just another attempt by someone to make ill informed negative comments about folk clubs.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Vic Smith
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 09:16 AM

bewildered of Ballydehob

It is a great temptation to descend to his level - but surely it is a sign of strength not to?


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: GUEST,Seedy Guy
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 09:01 AM

It is the reference to "seediness" or the "backness" of the room that so offends?

"Seventies prices for seventies people". I'd wear that on a t-shirt.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 08:35 AM

no,I will not drop it .
it was yet another attempt to damage the reputation of folk clubs and folk music, a   remark that is not close to reality, it read like a remark about all folk clubs, therfefore it needs to be corrected
it is a tiny minority of folk clubs that are held in seedy back rooms, and those that are held there, are held there, because there is nowhere else available, finding rooms for folk clubs is not easy.
rational debate cannot be achieved if people such as Folknacious make irrational comments.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: GUEST,Folknacious
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 08:35 AM

Howard Jones said: rational debate.

On Mudcat? With bewildered of Ballydehob? Yes it was, as you say, a throwaway remark, but unexpectedly too close to the bone for those who may have fitting caps. Always consult mirror before reacting.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Howard Jones
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 08:05 AM

GSS, the remark you're complaining about was a throw-away comment as part of a discussion on an entirely different topic. It is clearly not meant as a generalisation about all folk clubs but even you must recognise that it applies to some. It is clearly intended as the opposite end of a spectrum to the Folk Awards.

Even if you disagree with the comment, please drop it. It is not relevant to the topic under discussion, and personal abuse is inimical to rational debate.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Vic Smith
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:48 AM

... what is this crap....he has some other problem

... and so those - including myself - who just want an insult-free discussion are driven away...


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:26 AM

Icannot stand people who make sweeping generalisations[particularly about folk clubs and folk music].
the seventies was a time when many folk clubs were heaving with young people
in 1974 I saw Alex Campbell, play to a full house at dartford folk club, whose room was not a seedy back room.in the seventies i remember doing a floor spot at vic smiths[upstairs and not seedy] club the guest were strawhead, the club was well attended.
i was involved as a resident at a folk club called the three blackbirds, the guest was derek brimstone ,packed house, he got 3 encores, dereks words were this is a great club, circa 1977.
just 3 examples of many i could mention, what is this crap about seventies people, what is this crap about seventies prices, whatis this myth that all folk clubs are in seedy back rooms. this kind of genarilising rubbish only harms folk clubs and folk music
either folknacious is a fantasist or he has some other problem


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 06:30 PM

That link is brilliant. Thanks, 999!


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 04:22 PM

You folks take yourselves much too seriously.

I don't think I'm related to the old lady who wrote the letter, but I could be.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 04:22 PM

well he has described all folk clubs in a rude way:
Certainly better than hiding it away in the back room of a seedy pub and charging 1970s prices to restrict it to 1970s people."
Vic, it is idotic to describe people like you as seventies peple who hide away in seedy back rooms, if people like folknacious make idiotic statements they deserve to be called idiots


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 04:22 PM

I also take comfort from the fact that with a pool of 150 judges any cronyism, favouritism, bias or outright corruption by a few of them is likely to be cancelled out by the majority. Of course, if you believe in conspiracy theories you'll believe they're all involved...

Hmm, I would have thought that if the reply as I remember it concerning an original song getting to the finals in a traditional category is correct and the nominations are commonly that scattered, it would follow that only a small number would need to be in collusion to give an "entry" a very good chance of making the finals. Winning the final would be a different matter though.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Vic Smith
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 03:36 PM

Why is Folknacious an idiot? Why be rude?

Like you, I don't think that the Folk Awards show the folk scene at its best.

Folknacious argues - perfectly validly - that they "generate publicity for folk music and any publicity is good publicity." This is a perfectly valid point and one that I would find undeniable.

It is called a debate. Because people have different opinions from us, we don't have to be rude to them.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 03:24 PM

From: GUEST,Folknacious - PM
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 03:18 PM

However I take comfort from knowing that, in my experience, people in the folk world are almost invariably open, honest and trustworthy. I also know that most people feel passionately about the music, and I'm quite sure the majority of judges do their best to perform their duties conscientiously.

Exactly. So I think that people shouting about conspiracies and cheating and bias and cronyism say a lot more about their own likely tendencies were they in the position of being a judge than anything else: takes one to know one and so forth. Furthermore, any argument based on variations on "the people I like never get nominated" is completely spurious, like complaining about a record getting a review saying something other than your opinion. Because that's all it is: opinion based on people's tastes. Many people have been nominated and won over the years who aren't to my taste, and many people I admire have never been nominated, but that's how democracy goes folks, when it's your taste versus 150 others.

For all that, I certainly don't want to play dog in the manger and tear it down because I can see the viewpoints of those who say that it generates publicity for folk music and any publicity is good publicity. Certainly better than hiding it away in the back room of a seedy pub and charging 1970s prices to restrict it to 1970s people
   who is this idiot? .this is an insult to folk clubs and folk club organisers.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: GUEST,Folknacious
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 03:18 PM

However I take comfort from knowing that, in my experience, people in the folk world are almost invariably open, honest and trustworthy. I also know that most people feel passionately about the music, and I'm quite sure the majority of judges do their best to perform their duties conscientiously.

Exactly. So I think that people shouting about conspiracies and cheating and bias and cronyism say a lot more about their own likely tendencies were they in the position of being a judge than anything else: takes one to know one and so forth. Furthermore, any argument based on variations on "the people I like never get nominated" is completely spurious, like complaining about a record getting a review saying something other than your opinion. Because that's all it is: opinion based on people's tastes. Many people have been nominated and won over the years who aren't to my taste, and many people I admire have never been nominated, but that's how democracy goes folks, when it's your taste versus 150 others.

For all that, I certainly don't want to play dog in the manger and tear it down because I can see the viewpoints of those who say that it generates publicity for folk music and any publicity is good publicity. Certainly better than hiding it away in the back room of a seedy pub and charging 1970s prices to restrict it to 1970s people.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 02:55 PM

Jim Carroll would make an excellent judge


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Howard Jones
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 02:20 PM

I'm trying to think how anyone sufficiently involved with the folk world on a professional basis to be asked to be a judge might not, one way or another, have a vested interest in some of the nominees. If you have the qualifications to be a judge, you can't be entirely disinterested.

However I take comfort from knowing that, in my experience, people in the folk world are almost invariably open, honest and trustworthy. I also know that most people feel passionately about the music, and I'm quite sure the majority of judges do their best to perform their duties conscientiously.

I also take comfort from the fact that with a pool of 150 judges any cronyism, favouritism, bias or outright corruption by a few of them is likely to be cancelled out by the majority. Of course, if you believe in conspiracy theories you'll believe they're all involved...


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 02:13 PM

"What's the point of being an awards judge
if you can't at least get a few bottles of rare old Malt Whisky or an occasional blowjob out of it ????"

I think Bill Clinton would best be able to answer that.


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 01:37 PM

If I didn't know any better I would suspect that "Good Soldier Schweik " was in fact "the home made music phenomenon" who is publically involved in "styles of unaccompanied singing" and probably that modern opportunistic development "accomanied singing" also.

And to enter this discussion without being totally, utterly and completely honest about his/her relationship to the BBC, Smooth Opps, Mike Harding and pints of free mild beer sums up what is bringing our beloved tradition to its erm ......, why Oh why, and am I the only one .............. and stuff like that.

Yours outraged of Chorlton cum Hardy


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 01:04 PM

Yes, Folk awards have become meaningless, and particularly these ones, it smacks of the pop world and tin pan alley, in my opinion what is needed is a revival of the home made music phenomenon
The BBC did better when they had programmes like hold down a chord, might I suggest they do a programme on open tuning on guitar and or banjo, or even styles of unaccompanied singing, using traditional singers to illustrate different styles and ornamentation. or even songwriting
the BBC AWARDS are a bad joke, yours disgusted a long way from tipperary


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Subject: RE: Folk awards FoI request denied
From: Silas
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 12:43 PM

Get yer coat!


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