BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 02:17 PM

Is it possible to respect people who don't respect other people?

All depends on what you mean by "respect".

I think when we set out to cause offence to other people it is dishonest to complain when the people we have set out to offend are in fact offended.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 01:56 PM

Is it possible to respect people and their religion when those people don't appear to respect each other or people of other faiths?

L in C#

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: John P
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 01:50 PM

If I were Mary, Annunciation or not, I would like some proof. I'll bet she was watching her periods even though she knew it was all OK because of the angelic visitation.

Or . . . this scene happened ten years after the birth of Jesus. One assumes she continued to be married to Joseph and pregnancy was still a concern.

Eliza, if it you think it is wrong to depict Mary in this way, then you shouldn't depict Mary in this way. You don't get to tell anyone else that they should consider it wrong. Or at least you shouldn't expect anyone to comply - or refrain from getting peeved at you - if you do. Your comparison to a billboard showing a real person displayed in an offensive way is silly. Mary is not a real person who can be hurt by any such thing. Your post came across like a veiled threat of violence and made you sound more like a Muslim fundamentalist than a Christian. Like it or not, we live in a free society where we get to say any non-violent thing we choose. Part of the reason so many people are wary of Christians is that so many of them think they have the right to tell other people how to think and how to behave. Please stop it.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Crowhugger
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 12:22 PM

Eliza, I've absorbed some more of what you said, in particular I'm thinking now of where you said "[Mary] should not be depicted holding a pregnancy test and looking peeved."

From this statement I can understand better at least one part of how we differ about whether/how offensive the image: To my eye she isn't peeved, not at all. To me the image depicts that very real moment many women experience, the moment when, despite already being pretty sure they're pregnant, despite wanting to have children, they experience a real bump up against reality when the pregnancy is confirmed. That flip-floppy feeling of, "What have I gotten myself into, am I ready for this?" I know very few women who were totally unequivocal about becoming pregnant despite clearly wanting a family.

I'm wondering: Within your beliefs, is it wrong to depict VM experiencing such emotions? A related questions: Would the same picture, but with her face NOT looking peeved in your view, be offensive?

For VM to be shown at such a vulnerable moment of ambivalence connects her profoundly with womanhood everywhere but to me in no way does it debase her or lessen her worthiness to be Mother of God. Not at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: GUEST,Shining Wit
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 12:11 PM

That was me above, sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 12:10 PM

By definition faith schools are exclusive; their teachings are skewed to whatever belief the people running it adhere too. This is particularly insidious as it's indoctrinating children into a belief system that automatically assumes it's right and everyone else is wrong, full stop. If that doesn't set the stage for intolerance I don't know what does. Do you really think it's OK to skew a child's view by labelling them a 'catholic', 'muslim' or 'protestant' when they're too young to decide for themselves? Is it really OK to tell a child the rest of the world is wrong and we're the chosen few? Doesn't that colour an individual's thinking for the rest of their life.

In the North of Ireland faith schools have done sod all but exacerbate and promote the persistence of the evil of sectarianism. I was lucky in that I went to a state comprehensive with a real mix, and learnt more about my mates religious traditions b talking to them and going around their houses for tea than ever I did in R.E.

Faith schools are an abomination, as the only way for us as a society to all get along is if we mix and exchange ideas freely, and aren't told 'only we are right' by someone whose experienced divine revelation. Integration is the key, and nurturing a child's natural inquisitiveness and curiosity about the world should be done without the constraints placed upon it by any religious dogma.

It's like the enlightenment never happened sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 11:58 AM

There is no reason why a mother should not remain sexually active. Any suggestion that mothers should cease to be sexual beings is an offensive patriarchal attempt to imprison.

The image does no disrespect in any event. It correctly criticises those who judge and wrongly use their religion as a weapon. Compare "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone"   John 7:53-8:11.

Those who kill and threaten in the name of their religion impair whatever creditworthiness their religion might otherwise have.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 11:30 AM

Faith schools are heavily over-subscribed, and have to teach about other faiths, and there is absolutely no threat of creationism being taught as Science.
I do not see that you have anything to be offended about.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: GUEST,Shining Wit
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 11:22 AM

Sorry, got carried away with my impinges there.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: GUEST,Shining Wit
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 11:20 AM

As I say, I really don't mean to be rude in any way, and your personal life is of no relevance to this discussion. The problem is, in secular society we are allowed freedom of choice in all manner of things and the second you start impinging on that right we are all in trouble, whichever quarter that impingement comes from. This isn't an impingement on your right to believe or worship, it's someone either taking the piss or trying to make a theoretical point by subverting religious iconography. However, if anyone tries to stop people making these images (by whatever means, and unfortunately many are intimidated by the so-called faithful in so many parts of the world these days) then that is an assault on personal freedom.

So in this case (of this image the questioning of the Virgin Birth), I have to wonder why anyone who believes in the divine conception would respond to the image by grizzling about how offensive it is rather than defending the catechism robustly?

As for attitudes hardening, it's possible for some people to express their views with conviction without resorting to intimidation, insults and violence. I agree that stoking the fires of resentment, suspicion and intolerance is not health in any society but please be aware that this works both ways - we have Cameron telling the world we're a Christian country, the nasty and divisive ghettos of faith schools (populated by apostates and non-believers mostly it seems) plus the ever-looming threat of creationism and other such nonsense being taught as science rather than comparative religion.

Come to think of it . . I'm the one who should be offended!

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: TheSnail
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 11:00 AM

Fair enough, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 10:33 AM

Shining Wit, in society, we all live nursing our different beliefs, religions and tenets. Many of these are held most strongly and each will defend his/her own creed with vigour. The knack I suppose is for each of us to edge with respect around the other, and to try not to inflame or upset unnecessarily wherever possible. In UK, for example, we have a myriad different mores, religions, customs etc, and generally speaking we try to respect those of a different persuasion. If we did not, attitudes might harden, tempers flare, hatreds fester and eventually this may erupt in civil violence etc. We must just try to 'get along' and apply a little kindness and understanding. I do not foist my religion/culture on anyone, but this is a forum, and one may express views. As you may know, my husband is a Muslim yet we live in harmony together because we each respect the other's right to believe what he will, and would never contemplate mockery, insult or blasphemy with regard to the religion of the other. Even he was shocked at the poster of Mary. If he can understand the distress it causes, maybe others can too?

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: GUEST,Shining Wit
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 10:12 AM

Ooops! Pressed the button before I finished. I meant to say that it's your choice to believe that, it's not your right to foist those views on other members of the society in which you live, however. If you think it is, I find Christmas offensive so whoever doesn't agree with me must take down all the trees and decorations and show some humility and compassion for a change. But wait - that would be rather unreasonable wouldn't it?

I don't mean to be rude or inflammatory but you have to realise we don't all share your beliefs and think that in many cases they're detrimental and offensive to many, many people.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: GUEST,Shining Wit
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 10:06 AM

"The Virgin Mary is not, of course, my mother, but even more importantly, she is/was the Mother of Our Lord, the Mother of God. She should not be depicted holding a pregnancy test and looking peeved. She is not an object of derision or disrespect. Maybe this can help you to understand?'

It's your choice to believe that, it's not your choice to foist those views on other members of the society in which you live.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 09:51 AM

No, at the Annunciation she was told that she would conceive, not that she had conceived.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: TheSnail
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 08:43 AM

My suggestion was that this scene doesn't follow the Annunciation, it IS the Annunciation.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 08:09 AM

What doesn't work is the implication that an imagined positive pregnancy test might come as a surprise in the circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Crowhugger
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 07:53 AM

theleveller, just enjoying the laugh is perfectly fine! I hope you'll be equally fine with me trying to get a handle on what makes it NOT funny to some.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: TheSnail
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 07:23 AM

McGrath of Harlow

The whole point of the Annunciation story is that it short-circuits this scenario

Surely this picture IS the Annunciation brought up to date. I think Mary was a little troubled until Gabriel explained the situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 07:16 AM

What the hell! It's a joke - you either get it or you don't. End of!

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Crowhugger
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 06:33 AM

M, you won't be surprised that I'm not exactly up on the difference between the two. I do figure you got my general meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 04:51 AM

' the image messes with theology ··· so I can totally understand how that would be blasphemous. ' Crowhugger
,..,
I think not. Theology is simply a series of academic opinions and theories postulated on matters of religion; not any sort of defining statement of belief. Depending on whose theology and in whose view, it might be heretical. But I can't see how it could be blasphemous.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Crowhugger
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 10:34 PM

Eliza, thank you for bearing with me on this. I expect it's just as hard for devout folks to wrap their heads around how I see things as vice versa. Are you saying it's against church rules to consider or portray Virgin Mary in any light other than as a devoted madonna figure? You did kind of lose me at the parallel between thong & tassles on my mother and VM thinking "oh sh!t, this baby thing is for real." Does this mean that you feel VM taking a pregnancy test effectively sexualizes her, and that's what's wrong with the image?

McGrath, your comment is helpful, I think. Do I understand correctly that you're saying that what the image portrays is not possible within the story of the annunciation? If so, the image messes with theology (I think, it's not like I'm an expert in this stuff) so I can totally understand how that would be blasphemous.

I think that those who were raised Christian may not realize just how much detailed knowledge they've amassed about it, which knowledge I, for one, do not possess. I do know that Christians care about certain stuff that isn't a big deal to me. That is the whole reason I was asking about the image in the first place--I know enough to realize there may be issues but I don't know enough to see what they are. I'd rather know than guess, so I asked.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 06:23 PM

The whole point of the Annunciation story is that it short-circuits this scenario - Mary agrees to become pregnant, no question of her being surprised at a notional pregnancy test.

Now if you had Joseph looking worried about a positive pregnancy test showing up, that would be a different matter, a potentially funny way of bringing it all up to date, and quite in keeping with the original story, where he does get rather gobsmacked.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 04:46 PM

Crowhugger, I'm taking you at your word, (although I wonder if you're just teasing by saying you don't understand why it offends)
Imagine if you will driving along and passing a large billboard on which was depicted an enormous photo of your mother. The photo has been digitally altered so she appears to be wearing, say, a sexy thong and boob-tassels and she's holding an opened bottle of whiskey and winking. People are laughing at her, as some of them recognise the lady as your mum. Later, some even come up to you leering and ask if you've seen it. I do think you'd be deeply upset and offended, and want the poster taken down. You'd probably be very angry as well. The Virgin Mary is not, of course, my mother, but even more importantly, she is/was the Mother of Our Lord, the Mother of God. She should not be depicted holding a pregnancy test and looking peeved. She is not an object of derision or disrespect. Maybe this can help you to understand?

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Crowhugger
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 03:48 PM

Unfortunately that kind of definition doesn't help me to know why some people (Eliza and others) find the image blasphemous. Saying that it is blasphemous or contemptuous or profane doesn't increase my understanding at all about what aspect(s) of the image, exactly, are unacceptable. [sigh] I guess it's self-evident to those who "know", but I don't know and if I'm to learn I do need it spelled out clearly.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 12:26 PM

I found this interesting:
(via google)
blas·phe·mies
1.
a. A contemptuous or profane act, utterance, or writing concerning God or a sacred entity.
b. The act of claiming for oneself the attributes and rights of God.

Perhaps those claiming the first should be aware of the second?

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 10:53 AM

This is blasphemous sacrilege. The Virgin Mary is the Mother of God in Christian teaching, and as such no-one should be permitted to display such a poster

This is a bit tricky. The people displaying it are themselves a Christian Church, so it is not exactly analogous to the Krishna/Buddha examples. I'd certainly be unhappy if it was an advertisement for a pregnancy testing kit, for example, because the reasons you give. But as it is a poster by a Christian Church aimed at getting people to think more about the reality of Christmas (as Christians perceive it), I'm not opposed.

(On the other hand, I am always wary of the phrase 'no-one should be permitted', whatever it applies to.)

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 07:57 AM

Is it possible to respect people and their religion when those people don't appear to respect each other or people of other faiths?

L in C#

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 06:56 AM

As a non-believer I am confused (and sometimes amused) by what the multifarious and divided sects of the Christian religion do or do not find offensive. My mother was orthodox C of E and was offended when the local Catholic church erected a full-size, life-like and multi-coloured effigy of Jesus on the cross outside their church. She thought it vulgar and irreligious. Let's not forget that many beautiful murals and carvings created to inspire worship in our local parish churches were destroyed during the Commonwealth by Puritans of a Presbyterian persuasion who classed them as 'graven images'.

It would seem that, where religion is concerned, even though adherents claim to worship the same god, you just can't please everybody – or anybody.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Musket
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 06:42 AM

I thought it was Red Bull that gave you wings?

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 06:35 AM

I am likewise, as I hope my last post made clear, ambivalent in the same way about the subject of this thread. Eliza, I should never dream of deriding or abusing your deeply felt opinions as expressed so cogently above; and agree with you that there are other religions whom cartoonists would hesitate long before making such game of their faith ~ especially with that not-so-long-since Danish example before them.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 06:30 AM

My father was always amused by the bit of folklore called The Irish Girl's Prayer, "Mary, Mother of God, who conceived without sinning; teach us, we pray, to sin without conceiving." I think he had learned it in his own university days. I was, & am, never quite sure if I found it amusing or not ~~ thoroughly ambivalent, in fact.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 06:29 AM

I find it extrememly offensive, and if this were to be displayed in my local area, I would stridently object in every way possible. This is blasphemous sacrilege. The Virgin Mary is the Mother of God in Christian teaching, and as such no-one should be permitted to display such a poster. Imagine if Mohammed (peace be upon him) were to be portrayed in an equally disrespectful way. There would be riots. No doubt there will now follow a stream of abusive and derisive postings, but I stand firm.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 06:01 AM

I find the reactions of those purportedly shocked posting on the linked site deeply disturbing and somewhat dangerous.

The uncharity of the Xtian religious right to single pregnant women is sociopathic and the image lampoons it well. Many a young single pregnant woman will "have the baby kicked out of her". Some religion.

The poster on the other site arguing that women are put on earth to provide future generations is quite simply dehumanising women.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 05:34 AM

I think anyone who hasn't faced a pregnancy they weren't ready for (married or not) has no right to criticise that facial expression. Its an awful situation to be in, even now. Particularly if you don't agree with or have no access to abortion.

Mary was young, living in a society which would not have looked kindly on the situation (and I've seen or heard several reasonable and informed interpretations of the sort of thing that might have happened), and probably frightened. Even if you believe the bits about the visit from an angel, and even if she believed she was chosen in whatever way, there would have been human moments of doubt and self questioning.

She may or may not have been formally betrothed to Joseph by this time - the stories are too vague for us to know at this distance. That would have helped a bit, but not much.

I hope it helps the church in question. It certainly makes me think. And I do like some of the comments.

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 04:08 AM

I have been pondering why I find it funny and also potentially offensive and the two are clearly related.

One reason is the cognitive conflict of 1C Palestine and the 20C testing kit. The second CC is in my mind between the Mary the Mother of Jesus and the young woman who looks as if she is not happy and that it is an unplanned pregnancy. The sacred made profane?

For those of us who feel christianity is part of the status quo and via the Church of England the ruling class, we are witnesssing a poke at one aspect of authority.

This is my take as an atheist

L in C#

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Crowhugger
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 11:17 PM

Interesting about the apparent age of Mary in the pic. I didn't register thoughts about that. Looking afresh I wouldn't have pegged her as old as you did. 19 maybe. The style makes it hard to be sure though.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 10:43 PM

It is a pretty picture with a good expression...lI am not sure she looks like a 14 year old..I would say more 30ish..I am also not sure how many strawberry blond Palestenians there were at the time but there undoubtedly were some..also, did they have nice wood to spare for outhouses for poor people? I would have thought rock or clay brick or something. But it is not a bad picture. Has a universal quality to it. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 07:59 PM

CH, well said. Further via PM if you wish-- I will not be following the thread further. Thanks again for asking.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 07:49 PM

My son's comment- History might have been different if they had had the morning-after pill in those days.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 07:37 PM

Well, I wasn't even born back then so I had nothin' to do with it...

That will be my final answer...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: gnu
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 07:20 PM

Mother Mary woulda been fine in my outhouse up country. No flies, no spiders.

All she woulda needed was a clothespin. If the flies and spiders hadda had sommat like that, they mighta survived.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Crowhugger
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 07:05 PM

Susan I appreciate your insights and candour. I'll mostly want to sit with and consider them a while, but I can say right off that I winced too, although my reaction was to the breaking a general societal rule, not the breaking of any of my personal rules or the crossing of a personal comfort boundary, if that's a fair way to characterize what you expressed.

Jack it's interesting that the images you found are designed to sell consumer products, and while that is a common thing to see, it's perhaps more common than to see a deity-adaptation (for lack of a better expression) designed to promote religious discussion. In this case it seems they want to inspire or provoke discussion; I don't know how they might measure whether a future donation or membership can be traced back to this image.

I wish I'd followed through with clicking on the image sooner; I would have used this link to the image instead. At this size it's clear to me what she's holding and that she is inside the most spider- and fly-free outhouse I've EVER seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 05:36 PM

Is there any other religion in the world whose principal figures of reverence would be used in such away?

these days even Krishna uses a dating agency

the goddess of vinyl furniture

Buddha should use a microwave

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 03:55 PM

I am not offended but I was not able to see a large picture, just thumbnail, and it did not seem to be uglified..just a woman holding an object. But I didn't find it funny either.

It is not like those "art" forms that are meant to shock and upset people. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: MartinRyan
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 03:51 PM

Don't see why she looks surprised - hadn't the fortune-telling angel told her well in advance? ;>)>

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 02:30 PM

I'm trying to get a handle on *why* image might be bothersome or downright offensive.

I sat with this for awhile before posting. The thread title alone gave me a hint of the topic, but I was peasantly surprised to find the original post asking how people might be feeling about it.


I found it bothersome. It's hard to say why, because it's a nonverbal reaction..... :

I think every generation struggles to reinterpret the Gospel in light of their own particular times and culture; this image/approach seems, to me, to be antithetical to my times and culture.

I'm not particularly an old poop, or lacking in humor; I just know that for many people of my age (or older), I would not be the only person wincing and feeling like something that is precious to me is somehow not knowable to "today's" culture... in 'most any carload of folks I'd be likely to be riding with, down our big highway on the way to ministry class, that billboard would provoke various degrees of sadness.


For me, that discomfort comes along with the solid experience of knowing that, very often, these people (people in "emerging" church culture in general) seem to come to Hardi and me (and other "dinosaurs") because of the depth our spirituality has provided to us. That place in me that feels discomfited by this image is the very same place from which people draw from that resource.


So whenever I see one of these "flash-bang," emerging-church thingies, part of my inner response is, "Oh, here come some more people in need of our solidity...." And simply-- it can get kinda tiring, maintaining that resource against the insistent tide of change.

We are not against change, but we just feel the increasing pace of it in the un-connection-ness of the people insisting upon change-- when the day comes that they bring whatever present panic the changes have not prepared them to withstand.

(Since you asked.)

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 02:23 PM

Mary is revered by Christians.
Some will find it unacceptable for her image to be used for such marketing, but there will be no beheadings or bloodshed.

Is there any other religion in the world whose principal figures of reverence would be used in such away?
Of course not, but the feelings of Christians do not matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Virgin Mary & pregnancy test
From: Crowhugger
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 01:36 PM

If I'd seen it on a billboard I'm not sure I'd even have figured out what she was holding, but maybe it would be clearer on that size of image.

What I enjoyed was the different point of view--being taken into the minutiae of that famous woman's moment of truth. But then my sense of humour is very often about an unexpected point of view (my favourite comedic poem of all time is, "Have You Got Any News of the Iceberg?").

I'm trying to get a handle on *why* image might be bothersome or downright offensive.