BS: The Petty Arguments Thread

Subject: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 07:57 AM

In the interests of preventing a derail of a topic due to petty arguments, I suggest that all petty arguments are moved to here using science.

What can possibly go wrong?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Paul Burke
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 08:24 AM

Science alone can not explain all petty arguments, that's reductionism taken to its extreme. Some arguments require faith and imagination more than hard evidence. Such petty arguments should be moved here using superstition.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 08:32 AM

What's to argue? Tom Petty was a darned good 'rocker' and writer, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Lox
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 08:36 AM

I don't know about Patty Arguments, but I'm happy to help with the petty cash ...

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: pdq
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 09:57 AM

Richard Petty was the greatest race car driver of them all.

No arguments needed.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: alanabit
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 10:15 AM

Are we going to argue about Norman Petty too? (He was one of Buddy Holly's co-writers...)

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 10:16 AM

I read the title as PERRY Arguments - and Rick sure has some whoppers.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 10:23 AM

Just don't take those perry whoppers as an endorsement of the malted milk ball candies. They are apolitical.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 10:36 AM

isn't this about perry como?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 10:59 AM

"What can possibly go wrong?"

Ya' see, no one will admit to their arguments being petty..

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 11:05 AM

Why dont the extreme religious folks and the extreme athiests just codefy (aka list) their repeating arguments/preachings by number, then they could just refer to them by number, to save bandwith/space. They both would know what each posted number (aka position, aka argument, aka poreaching)meant, and it would really not matter to the rest of the folks not in the repeating argument post? The posters could still be free to use the insults (after all, most often a main reason to post), but would not need to go "on and on" repeating the much repeated preachings, to prove their supreiour point/position.

Post: An example, you are wrong, you athiest asshole, based on religious argument # 45.

Reply to post: Where is your evidence, you mindless and supersticious zealot,based on Athiest argument #36.

Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 11:27 AM

Why don't people with petty arguments sign their posts?

Just a thought.

(One of my personal pet peeves)

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 11:42 AM

I'm in charge of this thread.

Petty Officer W. Fly

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 11:44 AM

All three of the dogs I currently care for like petties.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 11:56 AM

No you are not, Will.

~M~

Captain, Royal Fusiliers(TA) [retired]

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 12:10 PM

Reminds me of the joke about the Trappist monks. They held up a card with a number on, which was a code for a joke. One monk received no laugh. A friendly older monk wrote "We've heard that one before".

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 12:27 PM

... & another commented in his note, "It isn't just the joke, it's the way you tell it!"

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 12:33 PM

As Shane would say, "Youse are all soooo flippin' WRONG! It makes me sad, eh? If'n youse were my dog I would have the vet put youse all down."

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 12:59 PM

Reminds me of the joke about the Trappist monks. They held up a card with a number on, which was a code for a joke. One monk received no laugh. A friendly older monk wrote "Some people just can't tell a joke".

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 02:00 PM

Sorry, I was GUEST, 11:05 AM. Cookie was broken:)

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: kendall
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 02:08 PM

Shut your festering gob you toffee nose pervert!

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 02:42 PM

it's because of my genetic makeup, kendall. why are insulting my mother? you wanna step outside, huh? it's quite pleasant to drink on the porch.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 02:48 PM

Well the scientists say
It'll all wash away
But we don't believe in them
Anymore...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 03:01 PM

Naw...it's not that we don't believe in them, Bobert. It's just that I don't believe anyone's infallible. That includes doctors, scientists, the president, my mother, and the Pope!

;-)

You follow what I'm saying?

The fact that scientists are not infallible is easily proven by an exmination of scientific history over the past few centuries. It reveals that scientists (like all other authority figures) have frequently disagreed with one another on basic doctrine, have opposed each other's scientific views, and have in time been proven wrong in science which they were quite certain of.

If it happened that way in the past, it's happening that way now too...only most people haven't become aware of it yet, that's all.

Just wait and see. Many of today's scientific "certainties" will presently prove to be quite incorrect...and will be replaced by new "certainties" which almost everyone will accept as basic doctrine. (all based, of course, on empirical evidence AND a whole set of subjective assumptions which arise out of that evidence).

The subjective assumptions are exactly where the problem of infallibility rears its head...and they generally arise out of things like:

1. cultural viewpoint
2. established prejudices of one sort or another
3. financial considerations and politics
3. incomplete evidence and incorrect interpretation of that incomplete evidence, driven mostly by (1), (2), and (3) above.

It happened in the 1500s, it happened in the 1800s, and it's happening now.

The most honest thing anyone can generally say about the great questions of life is, "I don't know for sure if my view of this is right. It might be partly right. It might be partly wrong. It's just the best conclusion I can come to at the moment, based on what I know and what I've seen and what I've heard, and I might be wrong."

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 03:30 PM

It's just that I don't believe anyone's infallible.

Are you kiddin'? What about Ron Davies?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 03:36 PM

LOL!!!!!! Yes, well....ummmm.... (cough! cough!)

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 07:41 PM

Hawk also for got about The Great Hat, widely known to be completely infallible!


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 11:29 PM

Yes, he is rumoured (British spelling) to be infallible. And who spread those rumours? The Hat and his contemptible minions (like Spaw) did, that's who! I tell you, it's a worse conspiracy than Opus Dei, these deranged worshippers of Cheech Wizard!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 12:02 AM

No offense, but you guys are seriously fucked.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 01:17 AM

Yes.....

So, what's your point? ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 03:25 AM

But surely they are really petit arguments?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 10:19 AM

Tom Petit and the Hearbreakers? Nah, doesn't work.

What the world needs is what it once had: a Source that tells you what's what and if you don't like it you get burned alive. Bring back the Papal States and the Pope's temporal authority! Revive the Inquisition! That'll put a stop to all this nonsense. Hmmph! Earth going around the Sun indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Silas
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 10:25 AM

I thought we already had a paypal state?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Musket
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 11:28 AM

Fuck me! Is the quest for scientific advancement so petty?

Don't know about the 1500s and 1800s but only last week my son thought he had cracked the problem for his PhD research and then after a session drinking with his mates and sleeping on it, he seriously disagreed with his stance of the day before, and so it's back to the testing and observing in the lab till the next Eureka moment.

Compare that to a theological argument where the original hypothesis is on a pedestal never to be knocked off its perch.

Now that's the sort of Petty that Tom and the Heartbreakers would be proud of.

I love petty arguments AND I sign my posts.

The reason I love them is that taking this forum seriously would be a sad thing to do, so forgive me if I indulge myself from time to time. You get a (hopefully) more rational discussion with me in the pub or in a meeting.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 11:51 AM

I'll be honest that this was aimed at 2 people in particular, but the important thing is that we can continue with insanity. YAY!

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Silas
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 12:05 PM

Being one of those 'two people in particular' it's slightly annoying that the posts have been deleted - I don't think it petty when another poster tries to steal your identity and post in your name - but there we are, the posts have gone for good or bad.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 12:15 PM

"seriously fucked"

No, that elephant was put to rest behind my middle school many years ago.


""This morning it was 2005 in New Orleans, I was staring at you wondering what it would be like to have the ability to change into a tiger. Now it's the day before I enter the world in 1981 and I can turn into a tiger. Yeah, just your average day...if you're in a Ted Raimi production."" Sherrilyn Kenyon, Unleash the Night

Now that almost everyone has access to the internet,aand it is the main source of information, is it not time to seriously discuss defunding public libraries?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Silas
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 12:19 PM

"is it not time to seriously discuss defunding public libraries?"

Please tell me that you are joking...

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 01:04 PM

Well, Ian, established religious tenets also get stringently questioned and debated periodically in most major religions, and doctrine gets changed after much furious discussion between the learned minds at the top of the authority structure. Such debates and schisms have frequently rocked even an ossified structure like the Vatican over the past centuries and they led, among other things, to the Protestant Reformation.

There have been several such schisms in the Muslim faith too. And in the Jewish faith. And the Buddhist faith. Etc.

It doesn't just happen that way in the world of science. Religion, like science, can be a field of continual inquiry, not just a field of rigid, established belief.

The conservatives in religions are the ones who cling to the old beliefs and defend them. The liberals and radicals challenge the old beliefs and change them. The same is generally true in science (where new theories and new interpretations of existing evidence are frequently brought forward to challenge the old ones...and are often bitterly resisted, even ridiculed, by the conservatives in the scientific establishment).

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 01:16 PM

My turn.

Aye, there have been "conservative" scientists. Even Einstein had issues with where Heisenberg took his own theories!

Rarely is a scientist clinging onto outmoded thoughts though once the evidence is overwhelming. Fred Hoyle died before the big bang reached the point where he would have accepted it, but I digress.

The funny thing isn't how theologians investigate and discuss their subject in abstract, as many do in the same way as musicologists, but how many people covert the superstitious stories of a time when magic was thought to exist, and try to see them as having value in reality as well as in moral messages.

Even sadder, those who should know better but is in their interest to perpetuate myths to the stage of people willing to die for them.

Dunno if petty describes that?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 01:55 PM

""Please tell me that you are joking...""

No joke. Just a petty rap trap. It was sprung, but the trap did not work to "wake the Genie".

Darn. :)

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 02:31 PM

"Yes.....

So, what's your point? ;-D"

That's the problem, LH. I don't have a point to make. I too am seriously fucked because I actually understand you and Spaw.

###################################################

I have asked people to leave my place when they argue about religion. Your--whoever 'you' is--have a right to your opinion, and along with that goes the right to keep it to yourself. In my place you abide by that rule or bugger off. That rule applies to all my friends regardless their religious beliefs or lack thereof. Basically, my religious beliefs are none of anyone's business, and anyone's beliefs to do with religion are none of mine. The single exception I make is for people who say grace before meals. If no one or anyone wants to say a blessing that's ok with me. The one proviso is that it be short/brief. You can offer prayers to God, Allah, The Great Spirit, etc. I'm a very simple guy. But NO editorializing in the name of your particular Kahuna. Un point c'est tout

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 02:35 PM

'Religion, like science, can be a field of continual inquiry, not just a field of rigid established belief' Well said, LH. In fact, we should perhaps see ourselves as being on a journey, not sitting smugly at the destination!

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 02:49 PM

Ugghh! Peasants!

I have had enough of all your converse, inverse, reverse elitism.

Get back to work!

signed
Petty Bourgeois

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: gnu
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 02:54 PM

My religion, tonight, is Lotto 6/49. $18M. Combine that with the $50M in the Lotto 7 on Friday night and I am gonna worship til the cows come home. Argue with THAT kinda coin. Man, I could piss off a lotta people with that kinda $$$.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 03:06 PM

Religion... can be a field of continual inquiry, not just a field of rigid established belief.

I suppose it CAN be, but for an overwhelming percentage, rigid established belief is the norm.

A shame, but true.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 08:42 PM

Silas, as the whole damn thing had turned petty anyway then the thread was justified.

And now we're using the thread properly!

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 09:33 PM

I'm gonna go smoke a splif and be right back.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,999 999 99999 999 9999 9999999 HEY
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 09:46 PM

So, like, whassappenin?

The way I see/view/interpret/grasp/understand/fathom/envision/comprehend this thread is that it is for inconsequential/unimportant/trivial/petty uh--back in a minute or sixty seconds, whichever comes first

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 09:55 PM

so, like, that was me in the last post, well, not actually me as in the physical incarnation but me as in the theoretical sense, well, not actually the theoretical sense but the abstract meaning of the word me and my question is this:

Can you name that tune? Uh huh, thought so!

I'm saddling up the reindeer: Happy, Doc, Grumpy, Dopey, Sneezy, Sleepy, Bashful and Randolph and then off we go for a postprandial zip around the town.

Back in a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 10:11 PM

OOPS, am I embarrassed. I messed up the reindeers' names. They should read Happy, Doc, Grumpy, Dopey, Sneezy, Sleepy, Bashful and Rudolph (he's the one with the crimson nose which looks red to me).

Anyway, while I was looking for their names I saw an advertisement for sore joints and how to relive them. I ask you, how? I mean like it just went up in smoke, ya know? I figure it's really a philosophical question: do you want to relive your joints? My answer is how? OK, so it's a question, but it's also my answer considering it went up in smoke.

The End

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 12:20 AM

Religion... can be a field of continual inquiry, not just a field of rigid established belief.

I suppose it CAN be, but for an overwhelming percentage, rigid established belief is the norm - Greg F


That's true, Greg. But the funny thing is...it's also true about everything else people believe in and do...NOT just religion! ;-) In virtually all areas of human culture you find that same thing occurring: that for an overwhelming majority, rigid established belief IS the norm!

Most people, like dogs, resist change and cling to their familiar and accustomed habits with great tenacity. Thus are the many foolish behaviours of the fathers passed on to the sons...yes!...even to the 7th generation! (grin) (and that also can apply to the mothers and the daughters)

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: autolycus
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 04:47 AM

What hasn't yet been explained is how to shift the contestants in Petty Arguments to move from the thread they're on, to here.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Musket
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 08:36 AM

Religion can be a journey of discovery or whatever?

Yes, it can.

Although no more than studying Middle Earth, The Foundation or wherever Terry Pratchett lets his mind wander.

You see, the problem with a journey is the expectation of arrival and as much as people will say the journey itself is important, it ain't a journey if you don't arrive.

Many people have arrived.

And when the pot of gold turns out to be a bucket of bullshit, the next Jehova's Witness to ring your doorbell ends up waddling down your drive with a copy of The Watchtower protruding and causing said waddle.

(As opposed to Chris Waddle, who I like many others did indeed worship.)

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 10:02 AM

""These long-haired, mentally unstable, petty little sawdust Caesars only find courage like rats, by hunting in packs."" George Simpson

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 10:40 AM

My God - dwarf reindeer - whatever next?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 10:56 AM

Giant mice?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 11:01 AM

HEY! Lay off the rats!

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 11:25 AM

Ian - Which pot of gold do you have in mind? The parts of religion that I'm mostly well impressed by are the parts that focus on human conduct and psychology, as in:

- learning to forgive
- learning not to pre-judge others
- learning to love rather than hate
- learning generosity rather than meanness of spirit
- learning the path of moderation as opposed to the path of excess (this is an important, integral part of Buddhism)
- learning nonviolence

Things along that line...

None of the above strike me as "a bucket of bullshit". They strike me as positive and useful thinking that anyone could benefit from, and for me they are THE essential areas in what I would term "religion". I'm not particularly interested in scary stories about hell, punishment, damnation, and the exclusivity of one faith over all others (which do strike me as equivalent to a bucket of bullshit).

You see, people can get out of religion whatever their own character moves them to get out of it...same as they can do with life in general. You can misuse anything, religion included.

Two of the finest and brightest people I've ever met in my life ARE Jehovah's Witnesses! (I'm not a Jehovah's Witness, and many of their beliefs are radically different from my own.) What makes those 2 people so exemplary is their own individual character, plus a certain general level of moral awareness they've gotten from being religious...that is, they give a lot of thought to behaving decently toward others and being responsible. They are exceptionally good and intelligent individuals. It doesn't worry me a bit that they have some odd beliefs about "the End Times" or whatever...doesn't really matter...because on a normal human level they are among the best people I've ever known, and I know I can trust them and depend upon them. So what difference does it make that they are Jehovah's Witnesses? It doesn't hurt me in any way, nor has it stopped them from being very good people and being my friends.

If I were to pre-judge them just as "Jehovah's Witnesses", and dismiss them on that superficial basis, I'd be missing the point, and I'd lose the opportunity of knowing 2 very fine people. If they were to pre-judge me just because I'm not a Jehovah's Witness, they'd be missing the point too. They don't do that.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,mayomick
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 01:25 PM

Why don't you all go argue about this petty matter on another thread and stop derailing this one . And by the way, that last sentence was a rhetorical question and doesn't need a question mark at the end of it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 01:54 PM

""Every man must be his own Bernard Shaw, his own Jesus Christ, and his own Archimedes." Cada cual debe ser su propio Bernard Shaw, (su propio Jesucristo y su propio Arquímedes)"".A Weary Man's Utopia, Jorge Luis Borges

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 02:36 PM

All ?? need ?s at end, Mayo ~~ even if rhetorical.

So sux!!!!!!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 03:45 PM

Is there a question at the end, or even the mark of one for others to answer?

"" Hey Pollywiggle! Hey Pollywog!
One of these days I'll be a frog.
I'll kick my legs and swim around
Without a splash and never a sound.""

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,mayomick
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 04:27 PM

Typical of people on the wrong side of an argument to try and raise irrelevant grammatical points about question marks. Kindly stick to the point of the thread MgM and stop trying to score points ? Are you an Australian, by the way? Somebody asked on another thread something about how to put on an Aussie accent. That's the way you do it .You make every statement sound as if you were asking a question?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 04:37 PM

In my opinion, it is impossible to derail this thread. It is un-derailable. ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: gnu
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 04:58 PM

I beg to argue, LH. What's all the religion shit? I think arguing about religion is far from a petty arguement.

BTW, I crapped ouy on the 6/49. But nobody else won so after I collect the $50M for the Super 7 I'll cash in even bigger on the next 6/49.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 05:26 PM

I agree that it's a far from petty subject, gnu, but so what? I think that a thread that is officially devoted to something as inconsequential as "Petty Arguments" is not a thread that really needs to preserve some illusion of its own dignity and inviolability. Or as Dillinger once said to the G-man, "Ask me if I care."

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 05:52 PM

The reason that this thread has not easily been derailed is the thread rail construction itself. This thread is too good for destruction, but too bad for salvation.

The valve-spindles are of best Yorkshire iron,and the guide-bars of the best mild crucible cast-steel(raised to a high tempering heat, and the face for a short distance tempered in oil, and finally partially reannealed to take out the internal tempering strains, care being taken not to impair the face-hardness). The mudcat engine is of the Forney type, with a
Belpaire fire-box.

We are fortunate that the posting terrain is generally level, with no huge generational or intelligence devides to be crossed. Stone for ballast and throwing purposes is easily obtained in the Mudcat neigliborhood, and there is abundance of the best timber pieces for defence.

The Mudcat community through which the thread passes is represented as being somewhat fertile with thought and dogged contraryness. It is now winter in many areas, when, according to all precedents, 'caters could suffer for our temerity in being here ('cause there is little else to do) in the jungle of "the God of Mudcat". The best remedy may be Warburg's tincture, as an efficient preventive for intolerance and incontinance, (should it show its ugly seat).

Remember that repulsion is of equal importance with attraction — cohesion and graivitation — as a force of nature, and in determining the present constitution of the world and most likely the universe.


(Note that some Mudcat business is done outside of the "cat walls by a few adventurous 'caters, (max.) so, don't forget to click on the offside e-sites of those who deal in silk, hides, and horns for export and in cotton goods, hardware, opium, tea, etc., for local and international consumption, and and useful land in Siam Thai).

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: autolycus
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 05:58 PM

Action replay

What hasn't yet been explained is how to shift the participants in petty arguments to move from the thread they're on, to here.

Sorry to be petty about it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Joe_F
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 06:30 PM

The only good rocker is on a chair or a hobbyhorse.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 07:18 PM

I agree, autolycus. If all the petty arguments on all the other threads could be shifted here, it would have a most salutory effect on the rest of the forum...like a form of verbal cleasing, as it were...like Hercules cleaning out the Augian stables! One would hardly even notice the few non-petty arguments scattered through the raging torrent of dross as it flooded into this thread.

Now how do we achieve that?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: gnu
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 07:25 PM

"...cleaning out the Augian stables!"

Was that sheep shit? I had to clean out sheep shit once. It was like blach hash and full of rat tunnels. Not near as bad as cleaning out a hen house but it wasn't a lot of fun.

As for stables being associated with horse soley, I had may share of that to... lots of green flies.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 08:33 PM

'Or as Dillinger once said to the G-man, "Ask me if I care."'

Before or after he was shot?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 09:48 PM

As Pretty Boy Floyd said the G-men AFTER he was shot, "I'm Charles Arthur Floyd." He also hated the nickname "Pretty Boy" and wanted to be called "Big George" (for some reason).

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 09:55 PM

I never knew if sheep shit or cow shit was better for my garden, when buying the stuff at a garden store. They are the same price, so it was always a big decision which one to buy. I know, it may be petty to so,me, but a big decision for me, that I did not take lightly. Real shit is serious stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 10:22 PM

Ed is right.

Close-to-complete Ideology and Religion Shit List

Taoism: Shit happens.
Confucianism: Confucius say, "Shit happens."
Buddhism: If shit happens, it isn't really shit.
Zen Buddhism: Shit is, and is not.
Zen Buddhism #2: What is the sound of shit happening?
Hinduism: This shit has happened before.
Islam: If shit happens, it is the will of Allah.
Islam #2: If shit happens, kill the person responsible.
Islam #3: If shit happens, blame Israel.
Catholicism: If shit happens, you deserve it.
Protestantism: Let shit happen to someone else.
Presbyterian: This shit was bound to happen.
Episcopalian: It's not so bad if shit happens, as long as you serve the right wine with it.
Methodist: It's not so bad if shit happens, as long as you serve grape juice with it.
Congregationalist: Shit that happens to one person is just as good as shit that happens to another.
Unitarian: Shit that happens to one person is just as bad as shit that happens to another.
Lutheran: If shit happens, don't talk about it.
Fundamentalism: If shit happens, you will go to hell, unless you are born again. (Amen!)
Fundamentalism #2: If shit happens to a televangelist, it's okay.
Fundamentalism #3: Shit must be born again.
Judaism: Why does this shit always happen to us?
Calvinism: Shit happens because you don't work.
Seventh Day Adventism: No shit shall happen on Saturday.
Creationism: God made all shit.
Secular Humanism: Shit evolves.
Christian Science: When shit happens, don't call a doctor - pray!
Christian Science #2: Shit happening is all in your mind.
Unitarianism: Come let us reason together about this shit.
Quakers: Let us not fight over this shit.
Utopianism: This shit does not stink.
Darwinism: This shit was once food.
Capitalism: That's MY shit.
Communism: It's everybody's shit.
Feminism: Men are shit.
Chauvinism: We may be shit, but you can't live without us...
Commercialism: Let's package this shit.
Impressionism: From a distance, shit looks like a garden.
Idolism: Let's bronze this shit.
Existentialism: Shit doesn't happen; shit IS.
Existentialism #2: What is shit, anyway?
Stoicism: This shit is good for me.
Hedonism: There is nothing like a good shit happening!
Mormonism: God sent us this shit.
Mormonism #2: This shit is going to happen again.
Wiccan: An it harm none, let shit happen.
Scientology: If shit happens, see "Dianetics", p.157.
Jehovah's Witnesses: >Knock< >Knock< Shit happens.
Jehovah's Witnesses #2: May we have a moment of your time to show you some of our shit?
Jehovah's Witnesses #3: Shit has been prophesied and is imminent; only the righteous shall survive its happening.
Moonies: Only really happy shit happens.
Hare Krishna: Shit happens, rama rama.
Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this shit!
Zoroastrianism: Shit happens half on the time.
Church of SubGenius: BoB shits.
Practical: Deal with shit one day at a time.
Agnostic: Shit might have happened; then again, maybe not.
Agnostic #2: Did someone shit?
Agnostic #3: What is this shit?
Satanism: SNEPPAH TIHS.
Atheism: What shit?
Atheism #2: I can't believe this shit!
Nihilism: No shit.
Narcisism: I am the shit!

And of course we must add...Alcoholics Anonymous: Shit happens-one day at a time!

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 02:03 AM

Little Hawk: "In my opinion, it is impossible to derail this thread. It is un-derailable. ;-D"

That's arguable...isn't it?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 03:41 AM

Nice post, 999.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 04:04 AM

Mayomick ~~ we shouldn't argue, you know. We Micks ought to stick together in the face of all these petty party-pooping pettifoggers.
Oughtn't we. Or, if you prefer, oughtn't we?

My cousin Donald lives in Canberra where he is an emeritus professor of Chinese biological theory at ACU {true!}; but I have never ventured south of the Line in all my 80 years. My parameters are St Peterbsurg to North, Beijing to East, SF to West, Freetown to South. So what! sez u. Who wants to know where u've been?!. Important, nay world-shattering, info, can't you see that?. Want to make something of it!??!

☠☹M☹☠

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 04:33 AM

In our neck of the woods the outside toilet was refered to as the petty. None of teh arguments I have seen even mention toilets. What is the matter with you lot? This is the kind of blinkered, philestine, pig-ignorance I have come to expect from you non-creative garbage!

:D tG

Besides - Non of the realy petty argumentors have joined in yet...

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 04:57 AM

Toilets? Toilets! You mean, loos, don't you? Or lavvies? Or smallest rooms? Or khazis?

Toilets! I mean, really [which has 2 central l.s, note please!.

Toilets!!! Bah!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Musket
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 04:58 AM

Hey LH, I have friends and relatives who are Jehova's Witnesses.

When they are having a cuppa with me and talking about Aunty's shingles or football, they are, well, friends and relatives. Their religion is no more of interest to me than their shoe size.

I fail to see your point?

If a Jehova's Witness knocks on my door in the role of a Jehova's Witness, then his or her baggage is open to scrutiny. So it doesn't matter how nice someone is, it is the role they are in, and asking me to join in their fantasy when I didn't solicit the doorbell ring tone in the first place is not in my mind a precursor to rational discussion. Live and let live includes respecting the plaque at my door saying No unsolicited sales calls, no unsolicited mail and no God Botherers.

Sorry my friend, your list of traits of religious people is not confined to, nor an aspect of their religion. I could be wrong here, but I reckon I would feel comfortable being portrayed as having those traits, the whole list. Altruism is nothing to do with superstition. Most other animals exhibit such traits, let alone rational people.

I would hope that many people who have faith, and good luck to them, would be uncomfortable with the notion that they are altruistic because their imaginary friend told them to be so. Most would, I suspect, put kindly acts and sociable behaviour down to being themselves?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 05:55 AM

You're right, Ian. You do fail to see my point. ;-D

My point is that people will get anything out of religion which they are inclined to get out of it...just like they do with everything else in life.

Therefore religion itself, per se, is not the problem. Religion can have a good, bad or neutral effect on a person, depending on the attitude of the person who adopts the religion. The problem is in how people think about whatever it is that they're dealing with, regardless of whether it's religion...or something else. Negative thinking produces negative results. Foolish thinking produces foolish results. Positive and constructive thinking produces positive results. This is just as true in the area of religion as it is in any other area of life.

I fully appreciate your somewhat negative reaction to people coming to your door and trying to convert you to their religion. It's just as annoying as when they come to your door and try to convert you to their political party or try to get you to buy their vacuum, as far as I'm concerned. They didn't call ahead and they weren't invited, therefore they shouldn't be there, in my opinion.

I don't discuss religion to convert people to anything, I discuss it simply because I find it interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 06:16 AM

By the way, you keep talking about superstition and imaginary friends whenever the subject of religion comes up. ;-D I find that a bit odd. It's not the main thing that I think about when I think of religion.

The things I mainly think of in regards to religion are working on one's own moral sense, on management of one's consciousness, focusing on the purpose of one's own life, achieving some level of self-discipline and some sense of responsibility toward oneself and others, improving oneself...that sort of thing.

Yes, you can work on all that stuff outside of religion too.

Of course! It's the foundation of life.

You WILL work with it regardless of whether you're religious or not...and that's exactly why religion is concerned with it, because what religion is really concerned about is answering (or at least attempting to answer) the greatest questions of existence, such as "What is my life really about? And what's the best way of handling it? And what are my responsibilities? And how can I find happiness and self-respect?"

None of this requires believing in imaginary friends or adopting superstitions. Does a Buddhist believe in imaginary friends? No. He believes in an ongoing process of learning, self-discipline, and the development of greater awareness as he evolves, hopefully toward a better overall state of consciousness. Seems to me that that is the primary original purpose of the higher teachings of prophets in most, if not all, the major religions. It certainly is the main thrust of what Jesus was talking about.

I can't help it that the bishops, bureaucrats, rule-makers, and bean counters took over the religious heirarchy as soon as the original prophet who got the ball rolling was conveniently dead and out of the way....

That's what tends to happen, I'm afraid. And it happens in politics and science too. The bureaucrats, rule-makers, and bean counters take over. And it doesn't take them very long to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 11:41 AM

Religion????.....Jeez, how people LOVE to equate 'religion' with absolute reality!....94% of the known universe, CANNOT be seen with the naked eye.....and people with 'political bullshit consciousness' are going to dictate what ISN'T God.....or that there is no God....as if they know what it is...or isn't!

....but then, I guess it's 'hip' to be ignorant....or they wouldn't be so dogmatic about politics!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 12:39 PM

I think I agree with GfS's most recent post. I think so- all in all it is hard to be sure.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 12:51 PM

Yup, GfS.

An old proverb often heard in spiritual circles:

The fool thinks he knows.
The wise man knows he doesn't.

Or put another way:

The fool thinks he knows a great deal.
The wise man knows that he knows very little (of what's out there to know).

This is why fools have a pat answer and a rock solid opinion for just about everything, and wise men, on the other hand, are willing to admit that they're not sure...and keep inquiring.

The person who confidently asserts, for example, that:

1. There is no God.

or

2. There is only one God and his name is Jehovah.

is engaging in the sort of dogmatic thinking that characterizes a fool, not a wise man. He pretends to have certainty about something which he really knows almost nothing about. What he's really doing is engaging in wishful thinking along the lines of "This is the way I want it to be, therefore this is the way it must be."

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Amos
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 12:54 PM

I suggest you have missed the central hinge point of all these arguments; they all boil down to vaginas in the final analysis.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 01:11 PM

>>>>
1. There is no God.

or

2. There is only one God and his name is Jehovah.

is engaging in the sort of dogmatic thinking that characterizes a fool, not a wise man. He pretends to have certainty about something which he really knows almost nothing about. What he's really doing is engaging in wishful thinking along the lines of "This is the way I want it to be, therefore this is the way it must be." <<<<


Isn't this the pat answer of a "fool" just with a couple of more steps? Why are you so certain about this? It seems as though you are the kettle complaining about the carbon on the pot. Is that not so?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 01:27 PM

(shrug)

I'm saying that neither man was in any position to know for certain whether there is a God or not. And how would they even know how to define or understand "God" if there was one?

I'm saying that a wise man admits that he doesn't know things like that.

He may have a strong feeling about it. He may hazard a hypothetical opinion about it. But he doesn't know. And if he's wise, he knows that he doesn't know...and admits it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: gnu
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 01:30 PM

Then, Amos, how do you you explain the virgin birth of JC? Or is that the exception to the rule?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 01:30 PM

Amos - Could you expand on that a little? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 01:43 PM

"I'm saying that neither man was in any position to know for certain whether there is a God or not."

You are stating this as a pat answer and a rock solid opinion instead of admitting that you do not KNOW everything. You are certainly not in a position to judge what is in another man's heart when he makes such a statement. Who gets to draw the line on what the "wise man" must question?

Someone who uses platitudes as the foundation of a pseudo-logical argument? I certainly question that logic.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 06:55 PM

Fine with me, Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Musket
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 04:05 AM

Talk about pushing against an open door...

I'm with old Albert, as I have mentioned on more than one thread. (Sorry Mr Groundhog.)

He said that atheism by most definitions means nothing, zero, just chance. Or put another way, anarchy. But f=ma today, yesterday and tomorrow, so there is some order. Just not sure anybody has found the source yet.

He managed this whilst having no issue with his Jewish roots or what that is perceived as by others. He was also offered the Presidency of Israel, so his balancing act was a good one.

I too have issues with people who say there IS or THERE ISN"T. Although I will always use terms such as "imaginary friend" and put religion in the box in the corner labelled "superstition." We can all dream and my dream is to be the boy who shouts "The Emperor has no clothes!" Although we all know the Emperor will just put another set of imaginary clothes on and tell the rest of the subjects, "It's alright, I have found some more in the cupboard."

I accept that some people will wish to think there is a God, and a God that has been described in books, in the same way that I will believe in Sheffield Wednesday being the supreme football team. I look on Sheffield United fans in the same way a religious dude must look at me.

I stated writing a novel years ago and gave up sadly. The thread was a society in 2,000 years with no soul, no reason to get excited, nothing to fight over and the nuclear winter meant all hitherto history was lost. Then some archaeologists unearth an old copy of Lord of The Rings. The rest is history. (I'm not really clever enough to have pulled it off as a book but we can all dream eh?)

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: autolycus
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 05:53 AM

This has been a discussion not merely about 'God' means but also what 'know' means.

If someone says they know the Earth is flat or that those policemen didn't beat up Rodney King, is their 'knowing' beyond examination, testing or evaluation?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,mayomick
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 08:18 AM

Yes let's agree to disagree MGM , half the so-called experts on this thread wouldn't know the difference between rhino and elephant shite.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 10:22 AM

Once you all come to accept me as your Creator and realize that without me you would not exist everything else will become clear and you won't have these sorts of arguments. That will permit you to get on with real stuff, like music and laughter and joy. (No tithing, no adoration, heck, you don't even have to thank me.)

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 10:57 AM

""In that direction," the Cat said, " lives a Hatter and in that direction lives a March Hare. . . . They're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
Alice didn't think that proved it at all.

Alice in Wonderland, an amusing example of the arguing in a circle fallacy.""

Arguing in a circle is first using a premiss to prove a conclusion, and then using the conclusion to prove the premiss; in other words, it is an attempt to prove two statements reciprocally from each other.

But, such arguments would be most appropriate in a petty argument thread.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 10:57 AM

Why ia 100 seen to be superior to 99, or 69?

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Ed T
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 10:59 AM

I once typed "A", and had a typo in it. :)

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,999
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 11:36 AM

With a new year on the way I think it good to make a few apologies to three specific people who post to Mudcat. In alphabetical order they are

Blues(man)

We got off to a very rocky start and about that I am sorry. I forgot that you are a man like me with wishes, hopes and desires; people you love and who love you, and even opinions that disagree with those I hold. That said, I had no right to attack you as I did regardless the reasons I convinced myself I had. I expect no forgiveness. Rather, I ask that we make the effort to be more reasonable with each other and understand that politics are no reason to snap or bite. I think we're both better than that. I hope you do too, Blues.

GfS

We have had more acrimonious exchanges than any two people should. For my part in that I am sorry. I realize that you hold dear the same principles of justice to which I aspire, and my behavior did nothing to help us reach any common ground. I know not what the future holds for us, but it would be a brighter one without missives that contain hatreds and retorts. Such is not a road to peace. I think we're both better than that. I hope you do too, GfS.

Lox

It's been two years for us and I think that's more than enough. Politics again. I am not at all proud of my part in that. It seemed so easy at the time to sit shiva, but we aren't all that different. Thing is, I don't know how to un-shiva this void that I created. If you do, please let me know. I don't know that we'll 'fight no more forever', but I will tone down the rhetoric. I think we're both better than that. I hope you do too, Lox.

I wish the three of you and your families and friends a happy and healthy year ahead. May your troubles be little ones if you have any at all—which I hope you don't.

It took the sudden and unexpected death of my friend Jon Stoppard (better known here as Smokey) to open my eyes to a few things.
This life is tenuous at best and it really is much too brief a span to spend even minutes fighting, holding grudges or wishing ill on others. Hindsight is always clearer than foresight but understanding the reasons for an avalanche doesn't make anyone pleased about being buried under one; so, I will try to take a second, third or fourth look at your posts and read them with a view to seeing the reasons you wrote and why you hold the positions you do. I may not always understand, but I will try.

Best regards,

Bruce

PS I would have started a thread for this but I'm a guest and guests are not allowed to start BS threads.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: gnu
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 12:23 PM

Wonderful post, 9. It would be well placed in the New Year thread.



Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: GUEST,999
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 12:41 PM

Hi, gnu. Best wishes to you for a great new year.

I'm in a heckuva hurry just now. If you'd be kind enough, could you please post my post there?

Gotta run. BFN.

PS Get in touch via e-mail. I'll try to write either tonight or tomorrow. It's regarding lupus and some stuff.

B

Subject: RE: BS: The Petty Arguments Thread
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 01:00 PM

Great post, Bruce. I hope to remember the values there. Thank you.