Lyr Req: Vorest Miner

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vorest Miner
From: widdershins
Date: 18 Feb 12 - 09:07 PM

Dick Brice covers "Who killed the Bears" on track 2 from his CD "Out of the Wood" Its in the form of a poem an iv thou'st yun up on thicks volk lingo yood be lozt zurry LoL.. Talking about Dick Brice here is a CD i recommend "Dick Brice - A few on 'I'm's own"   It was recorded live at the Feathers Hotel Coleford (My fathers folk club though I'm not 100% sure he was running the Coleford club when it was recorded)He does a cracking job of The Band played Waltzing Matilda .. There are some real Gems to be found on that CD. I recommend "Out of the Wood" too .. You can find them at the Forest of Dean book shop Coleford ,,I'm sure Doug McLean or Jan Bayliss is still running the shop ..

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vorest Miner
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 04:14 AM

not one of my songs, unfortunately, a different R Miles

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vorest Miner
From: Wheatman
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 03:56 AM

Yes you are right Joe; it is a great song and now will be added to my repertoire of mining songs, thank you, thank you, thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. As my good wife says, this is what Mud Cat is all about. The Forest is one of my favourite places to visit even though it is on the other side of the country from where I was born, it is a magical area. Not wishing to Hijack this thread, but I knew about asking the question "Who killed the Bear?" and the resultant reaction from a local, very similar to asking a person from Hartlepool "Who killed the Monkey" Gan Canny Brian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vorest Miner
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 03:51 AM

The following, from Wikipedia entry on Ruardean, tells the story, dated to late C19, with variants ~~ fines but no imprisonment, no Italian, but two Frenchmen & two bears. All I can say is that the story as I have told it above, which I had locally, in Soudley near Cinderford, mentioned in wiki below as the place the culprits actually came from {and where my wife had been at school}, and the son of one of whom I knew, was of an Italian, one bear, and the culprits imprisoned. FWIW, my wife Valerie began her journalistic career as court reporter at Littledean, mentioned below as the court which had sentenced the offenders in the 'bear' incident, for the Dean Forest Mercury

A notable event in the town's history occurred on 26 April, 1889. Four Frenchmen and their two bears were making their way to Ruardean, having performed in Cinderford. They were attacked by an angry mob, enraged by claims that the bears had killed a child and injured a woman. The bears were killed and the Frenchmen badly beaten.
It soon became clear that the bears had not attacked anyone. Police proceedings followed and a week later 13 colliers and labourers appeared before magistrates at Littledean, charged with ill-treating and killing the bears and assaulting the Frenchmen. All but two were found guilty on one or more charges, with another convicted a week later. A total of £85 was paid in fines - a huge sum in those days. A subscription was also launched which generously compensated the Frenchmen.
The term 'Who killed the bears?' existed for many years as an insult, directed particularly towards the people of Ruardean, despite the fact that all those convicted were from Cinderford, and caused a long-term feud between the inhabitants of the two towns.

Take your choice between the two versions. Nothing like folklore!

~M~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vorest Miner
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 03:29 AM

My first wife Valerie was born in Soudley, locale of the last picture of the Forest trees in Bill Walters' song. Her accent, modified over the years as she moved eastward when she married me, was just like that. Her father [who died before I had a chance to meet him] was a forester and also a forest miner. Her mother spent some time as crossing-keeper at Soudley Halt before the line was closed. Her father's best friend Ivor Hopkins, still a neighbour that I met, was the son of one of the men who went to prison for killing the bear at Ruardean, a local story, mentioned in Walters' notes:~ In my own time, visiting my morther-in-law there, I was told, as a piece of local lore, that if you wanted a fight you could still start one by going into a pub in Ruardean and saying "Who killed the bear, then?". As I understand it, early in C20 an Italian street musician with a tame bear who wore the collecting tin round its neck visited the area. A child was injured, and the rumour spread that the bear had attacked it. Some men killed the unfortunate beast, thus robbing the poor man of much of his means of livelihood; and several of them went to prison. One of my wife's poems about her childhood was about "Old Ivor, [whose] father went to prison for the Bear" ~ a reference she knew would have been understood by anyone from the area. A nice piece of living folklore which I learnt genuinely at source. That was about 50 years ago.

Any present day Voresters reading this? Anyone know, can you still start a fight at Ruardean, Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, by asking who killed the bear?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vorest Miner
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 02:42 AM

Click Here for a YouTube recording of this song, sung by Bill Walters. What a great song!
I wonder if that's our R. Miles listed as one of the writers.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vorest Miner
From: GUEST,Chris Walters
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 01:04 PM

I have been researching the Song "Vorest Miner and i have discovered a slight inaccuracy in the Song lyrics

Shakemantles lip is actually "Shakemantles loop" it is the section of Rail that serves the Eastern United Colliery in Ruspidge Cinderford.

After further research "Edge Hill Scowles is situated to the North of the "Eastern United Colliery"

Now i had better correct myself to save any further confusion .. The 12 inch seam is situated at the Cannop drift mine (I can only imagine what it would be like working that seam and that might explain why 14yrs was the age Children started working in the Mines).

I hope i have been of help and if there is any more info you need you can email me at [e-mail] where i can provide photos and other snippets ..

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vorest Miner
From: GUEST,Chris Walters (Son of the late Bill Walters)
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 12:02 PM

I be a Vorest Miner, we blue scars on me vace
Born and bred a Vorrester, an proud ta be thic race
I worked the pits, al or the Dean, Cyannup(Cannop Colliery)and Waterloo(Waterloo Colliery Cinderford). Crump Medda (Crump Meadow Colliery)Strip an at it (Strip and at it also Trafalgar Colliery)
Narthern and Eastern too (Northern Union and Eastern Union Collieries)

Its bin a rough an dirty life the Coal is ard ta win
Me knees is bust me back is bent, me Lungs as black as zin
I zwung me pick both night an doy, I worked the 12Inch zeam (12Inch Colliery) An life is very divrent vrom all me childhood dreams

When i wuz yung,I roamed the ood's az vree az any breeze round Voxes Bridge (Cinderford) an Lightmore tump (Lightmoor Colliery tailings Cinderford) I'd wander az i pleaze
Down Edges Scowles (Scowles is in Coleford though there is also a deep Iron Mine called Scowles) an up agyun, an round Shakemantles lip(Shakemantle Quarry and Deep Iron Mine Ruspidge Cinderford)
In rain an shine, in wind an Snow, to vind me vathers ship (His Father was no doubt a Sheep Badger)

Now I'm a mon i as ta work, ta veed me kids an wife
So its down the cage to earn a wage, Zurry what a life
We all the years spent underground, I be veelin like a Mole
An in me yud the thought rings out, I hates this bloody Coal

On vriday night i comes off zhift, ta get me weekly poy
An then off wum to divvy up, me vittern into cloy (Colloquial term for paying the Bills including rent to the Colliery)
For if its bin ashart owld wick, there yun much left or we
An i be vaced we ungry kids, an Bread an Jam ver Tea

But if its bin a good owld wick, I goes off down the Pub
I no's me kids be warm an zafe, the pantry's vull ov grub
I has a drink we me owld buts, then its wum across the tump
Its slowly now i wendsme woy, me belly vull ov Scrump (Cider)

Vor i be a Vorest Miner, we blue scars on me vace
Barn an bred a Vorrester, an proud to be thick race
I worked the pits all or the Dean, Cyannup and Waterloo
Crumpmedda Strip an at it, Narthern an Eastern too


I'll provide some more history later ..

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vorest Miner
From: GUEST,Chris Walters (Son of the late Bill Walters)
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 10:12 AM

I have in my possession the full lyrics to Vorest Miner .. Cannop to Waterloo is between Coleford and Cinderford .. Waterloo is commonly called Waterloo screens (There is a Lake there now)and Cannops twin Lakes serve the Stone Mill .. "Strip an at it" means hacking the Coal from the seam with Picks .. I'll post the Forest lingo and English translation ..

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vorest Miner
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 04:56 PM

Hi, Brian - please do post what you have so far.
Thanks.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vorest Miner
From: Wheatman
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 04:28 PM

Thanks Phil, will do so next week, got a lot on at the moment and have to go to Selby this week end. Brian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Vorest Miner
From: Newport Boy
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 04:25 PM

Transcribe the words as best you can, and I'll have a go at the placenames. Or make an mp3 and PM me with it. I spent a lot of time in the Forest in the 1950's & 60s.

Phil

Subject: Lyr Req: Vorest Miner
From: Wheatman
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 11:35 AM

I have a cassette One singer One Song by Bill Walters - 1990. On it is a song Vorest Miner (Forest Miner) which is about the free miners who live in the Forest of Dean. The song is credited to R. Miles/Maclean. The tape is old but I would like to learn the song. I can get most of the words from the tape except the place names which could be in dialect and I don't want to get them wrong as this is an important part of the song. Anyone got any ideas?
Thanks Gan Canny Brian